I am baffled, please explain

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.Now back to the point about double standards, why are you unwilling to apply those arguments to exonerate Sathiya sai Baba? Maybe there was an agenda against him? Maybe the devil attacked him severely because he was a threat to his hellish dominion? Maybe it was all just metaphorical?
Evidence for this, please. 😃

I also find it amusing when atheists are willing to embrace ideas…without a shred of proof.

But, sure…I’ll consider the arguments that there was a conspiracy.

Please provide your sources and I’ll look at them.
 
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But I do have a great big problem with accusations of molestation and extravagant living for someone who claims to be divine.
…but, you dont have a problem with the multi-million dollar wealth of the Vatican.

Shouldnt someone who is divine have the best things, to inspire awe and magnificence? (Typical argument used to justify the RCC with the big bucks btw).
 
…but, you dont have a problem with the multi-million dollar wealth of the Vatican.

Shouldnt someone who is divine have the best things, to inspire awe and magnificence? (Typical argument used to justify the RCC with the big bucks btw).
I would think it is in the billions actually. I personally have no issue with that.
The awe of existence and magnificence of a new born baby impresses me more.
 
*Nope, I don’t “have to” explain anything, because that is STILL not the subject of this thread. Open your own thread, if you wish to discuss it.
determined by random processes of nature. If a different sperm would have reached the ovum, you might call yourself AntoniaRey - and the world would just go on. Whether it is “YOU” or “Antonia” who would exist, is of no relevance - especially since no one would know. And this simple truth is NOT a death wish for your existence.
Unfortunately for you, Pallas, your first question presupposes free will:
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**The first question is this:**
Could God have created a different pair, like George and Susie, who would NOT have succumbed to the temptation, and would NOT have chosen to disobey? If every conceivable human pair would have succumbed to the temptation then there is no free will; the fall would have been preordained or predestined. Sounds quite unreasonable. The existence of free will is a basic tenet.
Yet you have also stated explicitly:
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We are the **random** result of a specific sperm "winning" the race to the ovum.
There is no qualification here which implies that our existence depends entirely on a random natural event without any form of supernatural intervention. Everything else you have written implies that there is no God, e.g.
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"Why do you think that I or you are SPECIAL"? We are not. If we would not exist, then someone else would exist in our place."
In your scheme of things there is no free will because everything has a natural explanation and your entire argument is based on a false premise! Your vain attempt to modify your position with the word “partially” is inconsistent with everything else you have written. You are not really baffled at all because in your mind there is no conflict. For you physical necessity has the last word and nothing else matters… If you wish to discuss “free will” is detail, open your own thread. Make sure that you precisely and explicitly define what you mean by this expression.

There’s no need to discuss it because you have made the meaning quite clear:
If every conceivable human pair would have succumbed to the temptation then there is no free will; the fall would have been preordained or predestined.
It’s a pity there is no way you can evade the implications of the alternatives you have specified but we can’t win all the time. Sooner or later we’re bound to make a mistake and have to admit we’re not infallible. It has been an enjoyable discussion and I look forward to our next encounter. Many thanks for your stimulating ideas.
 
Haha!

I. however, stand by my question.

If God exists, then God could take the life He created, no?

Is that not a logical conclusion?
Not necessarily. Which description of god would you choose? Then, why would this god choose to take that life?

We are dealing with logic…aren’t we?

John
 
Not necessarily. Which description of god would you choose? Then, why would this god choose to take that life?

We are dealing with logic…aren’t we?

John
I use the classical, philosophical definition of God.

That’s what is meant when all philosophers discuss God, and it seems reasonable to me.
 
I use the classical, philosophical definition of God.

That’s what is meant when all philosophers discuss God, and it seems reasonable to me.
I am fairly certain that you know better than that. Philosophers throughout the ages have had many different takes on god.

John
 
I am fairly certain that you know better than that. Philosophers throughout the ages have had many different takes on god.

John
And I’m absolutely certain you know what we mean here when we discuss God.

So I’m not playing that game with you, oldcelt.

 
John has truly no idea. That’s been made abundantly clear in his many posts.
That’s why his rudeness to say the least, in not capitalizing the G when referring to the divinity, is easily tolerated.
There is no rudeness when one is referring to an non-specific god. Who has an idea is very much open for discussion.

John
 
Yes, I understand that the deadbeat dad deity you believe in, would not be worthy of any respect.
 
All the religions that have led me to understand more fully our relationship with transcendent Reality capitalize the name of who is ultimately God. Atheists and deist don’t because they worship themselves I suppose.
 
All the religions that have led me to understand more fully our relationship with transcendent Reality capitalize the name of who is ultimately God. Atheists and deist don’t because they worship themselves I suppose.
Your supposition is precisely that.
 
The first question is this:
Could God have created a different pair, like George and Susie, who would NOT have succumbed to the temptation, and would NOT have chosen to disobey? If every conceivable human pair would have succumbed to the temptation then there is no free will; the fall would have been preordained or predestined. Sounds quite unreasonable. The existence of free will is a basic tenet.
This is a false dilemma. There is no reason why they - or we or anyone else - couldn’t be predestined to have free will.
 
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