I am baffled, please explain

[PRmerger]

I never said it was particularly good evidence. I never said I personally believed it, but Indians who worship Baba definitely believe it.

So they are wrong.

That doesn’t mean that because some folks are wrong about belief in miracles that all folks are wrong about belief in miracles.

Unless you want to say that because some folks believe in counterfeit bills, that all money is counterfeit…

Surely you don’t believe that, right?

 

[PRmerger]

Correct, he killed them himself.

Example: He killed the Pharaoh’s first born son.

Yes. That is what God does. He creates. And then he permits them to die, and then they have either everlasting life with Him, or they reject Him and go to hell.

The Lord gives. The Lord takes. Blessed be the name of God!

You might want to note that every single person that’s ever been created has died, or will die.

So not sure what your point is?

 

[Peter_Plato]

I never said it was particularly good evidence.

Well, actually, you implied it was the best kind of evidence; at least, that no ‘proof’ could be "any more solid."

Yes, with video proof too. **Cant get any more solid, can you? **Where is Jesus’ video proof?

 

[PRmerger]

The Caananites and Hittites and other tribes were commanded to be wiped out, for fear of contaminating the Jewish faith.

Only if you understand this to mean a Team Genocide as well:

http://wbma.images.worldnow.com/images/23961025_BG1.jpg

 

[Peter_Plato]

You might want to note that every single person that’s ever been created [by God] has died** [by God,] **or will die [by God.]

Emphasis and additions are mine.

 

[PRmerger]

Depends on the apologist you’re asking.

You are correct.

Many apologists are unwilling to concede that those instances were metaphorical. But supposing they were, I guess Moses (who transported the 10 Commandments), the Exodus, Passover, and all of that is metaphorical too, huh?

No, that is not metaphorical, too.

You must see that some things can be metaphorical, without everything being metaphorical, yes?

I am so baffled by this All Or None thinking.

It’s so fundamentalist.

#amusing
and
#confusing

Look at this again:

http://wbma.images.worldnow.com/images/23961025_BG1.jpg

I’m hoping you can see that the “wipe the field” is metaphorical. But you do see that this wide receiver really does exist ,yes?

There is indeed a real, literal person named Evan Spencer, right?

Right.

espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/2576396/evan-spencer

So you can understand, now, I hope, that some things can be metaphorical, while some other things–sometimes even in the same article!!–can be literal.

Yes?

 

[PRmerger]

Emphasis and additions are mine.

 

[SonOfMan]

Well, actually, you implied it was the best kind of evidence; at least, that no ‘proof’ could be "any more solid."

Yes, video proof is seen as solid, at least on paper. And for Indians who believe, it is very good evidence. No such “very good” evidence exists for Jesus.

But, even if there was “very good” evidence for Jesus, how do you know that the evidence isn’t comparible to Sathiya Sai Baba’s evidence? How do you know that Jesus’ followers were not just as duped as Baba’s?

 

[SonOfMan]

You are correct.

No, that is not metaphorical, too.

You must see that some things can be metaphorical, without everything being metaphorical, yes?

I am so baffled by this All Or None thinking.

It’s so fundamentalist.

#amusing
and
#confusing

Look at this again:

http://wbma.images.worldnow.com/images/23961025_BG1.jpg

I’m hoping you can see that the “wipe the field” is metaphorical. But you do see that this wide receiver really does exist ,yes?

There is indeed a real, literal person named Evan Spencer, right?

Right.

espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/2576396/evan-spencer

So you can understand, now, I hope, that some things can be metaphorical, while some other things–sometimes even in the same article!!–can be literal.

Yes?

Whoa, that is olympic mental gymnastics right there. Let me get this straight; all of the scripture about genocide, slavery, rape, incest, genocide, and anything that makes God look bad, is simply excused with a claim that it is all metaphorical. However, in the same breath, all of the extraordinary claims like resurrections, glorified bodies, ascending into heaven bodily, virgin births, are all taken as literal? The average person would find this intellectually dishonest.

Now back to the point about double standards, why are you unwilling to apply those arguments to exonerate Sathiya sai Baba? Maybe there was an agenda against him? Maybe the devil attacked him severely because he was a threat to his hellish dominion? Maybe it was all just metaphorical?

 

[Aloysium]

Yes, video proof is seen as solid, at least on paper. And for Indians who believe, it is very good evidence. No such “very good” evidence exists for Jesus.

But, even if there was “very good” evidence for Jesus, how do you know that the evidence isn’t comparible to Sathiya Sai Baba’s evidence?

I would recommend not trying to juggle opinions.
Go for the truth:
What is real?
Who am I?
Where do I come from?
Why am I here?
You exist, who better to know the answer to these questions but you yourself.
Once you catch on to what is real, you will hear it in what others describe in their particular way.
Maybe that is what you can get from this discussion: search within yourself and look around to hear it reverberated around you.

 

[SonOfMan]

So not sure what your point is?

You excuse God for murdering innocent children, but you are unwilling to excuse Sathiya Sai Baba who is believed to be God, of his crimes.

Furthermore, the evidence for Sathiya was greater than Jesus’ and you are unwilling to take it seriously, but you will believe in Jesus on much thinner evidence.

So, it seems you are guilty of double standards as much as the people who you were describing.

 

[SonOfMan]

So they are wrong.

That doesn’t mean that because some folks are wrong about belief in miracles that all folks are wrong about belief in miracles.

Unless you want to say that because some folks believe in counterfeit bills, that all money is counterfeit…

Surely you don’t believe that, right?

Correct, but you arent even showing me a real bill and for that matter, you arent even showing me a counterfeit bill. All youve got is a story about a bill in your pocket with nothing to show for it.

At least those Indian followers of Baba had a counterfeit bill in front of them. Logically speaking, on paper, they had better reasons for believing in something.

 

[DCNBILL]

You excuse God for murdering innocent children, but you are unwilling to excuse Sathiya Sai Baba who is believed to be God, of his crimes.

Furthermore, the evidence for Sathiya was greater than Jesus’ and you are unwilling to take it seriously, but you will believe in Jesus on much thinner evidence.

So, it seems you are guilty of double standards as much as the people who you were describing.

Can you point to the world wide Church of Sathiya Sai Baba? I can point to the one started by The Christ.

I would say that if Sathiya was actually God and Jesus was not then there would be much more evidence for Mr. Babas Church than there would be for the one that Jesus started.

 

[SonOfMan]

Can you point to the world wide Church of Sathiya Sai Baba? I can point to the one started by The Christ.

I would say that if Sathiya was actually God and Jesus was not then there would be much more evidence for Mr. Babas Church than there would be for the one that Jesus started.

Go to India and see the millions of his followers. In fact, just google him and see the thousands of his followers in the background.

But evidence of a Church does not validate someone as God. There are hundreds of religions that have a Church. Sathiya still had better evidence though since it was all direct, he didnt have a middleman.

And btw, this notion of “evidence of a Church” is your personal criteria formed through your Catholic beliefs. Other religions dont play by these rules and have their own critieria, so Im afraid your argument holds no water here.

 

[DCNBILL]

Go to India and see the millions of his followers. In fact, just google him and see the thousands of his followers in the background.

But evidence of a Church does not validate someone as God. There are hundreds of religions that have a Church.

And btw, this notion of “evidence of a Church” is your personal criteria formed through your Catholic beliefs. ** Other religions dont play by these rules and have their own critieria, **so Im afraid your argument holds no water here.

To refer to God as someone is somewhat silly, especially the God of Christianity.
They do not “play” our way because with the exception of Jewish faith they are not worshipers of God.

I would say the greatest evidence that the Catholic Church is the one that holds the Truth is the number of people who hate the Church and will attack it with a vehemence that is not seen against any other religion save the Jewish faith. There are even those who hate the Church so much that they even waste their time on Catholic web sites trying to tear down the faith of those Christian believers that are innocently discussing their faith.

It is as if these people are driven by some kind of anger or guilt that something exists that is true and good and stands against the way that they they think they should live, imagine that.

Note that this is a Catholic site so this is the very place that my arguments “hold water.”

 

[Richca]

Jesus didnt have any eyewitnesses. The Bible says so, but that is a different story entirely, one which requires faith.

This is pure irrationality.

Sathiya’s eyewitnesses, which are in the millions, are still alive today and can be interviewed for their direct testimony. Westerners who visited Sathiya were transformed and can attest to their spiritual experiences.

 

[SonOfMan]

Note that this is a Catholic site so this is the very place that my arguments “hold water.”

Nice try, but we’re not just talking about Catholicism in this thread now are we? We’re discussing reasoning here, which Catholicism doesnt have a monopoly on.

 

[SonOfMan]

This is pure irrationality.

I don’t agree. Explain.

Jesus Christ has witnesses too today which far outnumber, in the hundreds of millions if not billions, the witnesses of Sathiya. Jesus Christ has also had witnesses for not just 20, 50, or 70 years, but for over 2000 years. Now if we subtract lets say roughly 70 years from 2015 years, we get 1950 more years of Christian witnesses than the witnesses of Sathiya. That is to say, we have roughly 1950 more years of evidence of christian witnesses than witnesses of Sathiya.

Jesus didnt have witnesses. Christianity as a movement had many followers for many years, but that isnt the same thing as being an eyewitness.

Muslims, Jews, Hindus, have had many followers for thousands of years too.

 

[PRmerger]

You excuse God for murdering innocent children,

God does not murder innocent children, Son.

God takes the life of all people.

Every single human person on this earth is going to die, Son.

You realize, that, right?

(Unless, of course, the 2nd coming comes within our lifetime. )

So yes, I don’t have a problem with the Creator taking life.

But I do have a great big problem with accusations of molestation and extravagant living for someone who claims to be divine.

 

[PRmerger]

Whoa, that is olympic mental gymnastics right there. Let me get this straight; all of the scripture about genocide, slavery, rape, incest, genocide, and anything that makes God look bad, is simply excused with a claim that it is all metaphorical. However, in the same breath, all of the extraordinary claims like resurrections, glorified bodies, ascending into heaven bodily, virgin births, are all taken as literal? The average person would find this intellectually dishonest.

Whoa…every single piece of money that looks like this:



is only symbolic?

And yet there’s real money?

How can this be?

I find it baffling (and amusing) when atheists are such fundamentalists.

And that seems to be more and more the case these days.