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kptrs
Guest
You said yourself that we don’t agree on how serious this is. Well, that’s the part I’m saying you don’t get. You don’t get how serious this is. So, no, you don’t get it.
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kptrs
Guest
Also, how would you be reacting if the OP were your daughter, sister, or niece? How would you react if someone did something like this to your own wife?Actually, I do get it. You and I just don’t agree about it.
If this happened at work and was on ongoing situation, the men would deserve to be fired. A woman at work isn’t able to avoid the men harassing her. This would be a textbook example of a hostile work environment in some juristictions. That is not the case, however, in the OP’s situation. Laws against sexual harassment do not prohibit simple teasing, offhand comments, or isolated incidents. Although these men are guilty of some very bad behavior, what they did does not meet the legal definition of sexual harassment.
I can get on board with this too.
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Allegra
Guest
The problem is that confronting the wife about something the husband did puts the wife in a really uncomfortable position. She wasn’t there. She doesn’t know what actually happened. She can’t really apologize for something a grown man did. She’s his wife, not his mother. She didn’t do anything wrong and putting her on the spot that way isn’t really fair when there really isn’t anything she can say or do.
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bitterhope
Guest
I agree with this. I would be very uncomfortable and upset if someone came to me about anything dealing with my husband. He’s a grown man. Deal with him directly and leave me out if it. I would likely not be very kind to someone that came to me with a problem they had with my husband simply because it is not my place to parent him or run interference for him. Please don’t go to the wives. The priest yes. The wives, not a good idea
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BlueEyedLady
Guest
This is exactly how I feel. I would not be friendly either, and I certainly wouldn’t agree to talk to him about it. Even if I would lend this credence (I wouldn’t), I’m not his mother. I could only assume that someone coming to me with this report is trying to stir up trouble or looking for a scapegoat for her husband’s issues.
Now, if someone went to a priest about my husband’s group, I would definitely consider that something may have happened and I would ask him about it. But, even if he did do it, and even if he admitted it, I still couldn’t make him apologize, nor would I nag him about it. I wasn’t there, so that’s between my husband, her, and her husband.
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WillyAL
Guest
So I have to agree with you in order to get it? Ah, OK. NOW I get it.
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Beryllos
Guest
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kptrs
Guest
Some things are objective. This situation is serious. That’s what you don’t get. Enough though. I’m through arguing.
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EasterJoy
Guest
You are saying that if your husband came up to a friend of yours from church at the parish picnic and taunted her about lewd text messages that she could show you, he would not apologize, and she complained to you about it, you would say, “Don’t tell me, tell Father. Hubby is a grown man. If he insulted you, it is none of my business. I won’t even so much as ask him about it. I wasn’t there, I’ll have nothing to do with it.”
If that is how you treat your friends–your husband can treat them any way you like, and you will never say a word to him about it–why do you have any friends? How does this change because this woman is merely a fellow parishioner and not a personal friend of yours?
I will guarantee you that there are other women who would be mad because someone went to Father and “made it public” instead of going to her. It is a Catch-22 in which no one seems to care too much about the person who did NOTHING to deserve this treatment and who is getting this treatment FROM BROTHERS AND SISTERS IN CHRIST AT HER CHURCH!! If no one has her back there, if no one there will say “no, this is not acceptable, no matter who is doing it,” then where?
You’re not his mother?!? Your husband is taunting some other woman at a church picnic over something like this, and this is* her *problem? Leave her alone, let her deal with it, she’s looking for a scapegoat?
You honestly won’t believe her if she comes to you personally, but you will believe her if she goes to the pastor? Yeah, sure, that’s what I’d expect, that any woman would say! “Oh, you told Father? Oh, well, that’s different! You must not want to stir up trouble, if you’re going straight to Father!”
I have heard it all. I cannot believe that anyone in a Catholic parish would countenance this for 30 seconds. It is disgusting and a disgrace to the whole parish. There should be no one who does not care that it happened.
When hubby pulled his cell phone from his pocket, the man with the brain (there had to be one there) ought to have told him, “Put that back in your pocket. You are not in high school any more. You are a man and you are at a parish function. Grow up, you guys, or maybe you should ask yourselves if you have a drinking problem. This is over the top.”
That is what her father would do. That is what the pastor would do. Why no one else? That the women won’t speak up for her? Unbelievable. Simply unbelievable.
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alphawoman
Guest
Right on, EasterJoy!
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bitterhope
Guest
Yes, I am saying I do not discipline my husband. I have 8 children that I am responsible for. I will not be responsible for my partner as well. Now, my husband has never, nor would he ever, do such an immature and childish thing. He is a grown up and behaves as one. But IF on the off chance some time he did act in a way unbecoming of a gentleman and someone decided I need to know, it better be coming from an authority figure (like the priest) because action is being taken against him and not just someone trying to get me upset with my husband. That would be the only purpose of telling these boys’ wives. I am not his mom. I don’t have authority over him, and I have enough to do without babysitting a grown up. She should tell the priest and let him deal with the situation and all involved in the way he feels is fitting and that most likely means wives will find out if they haven’t already. I for one would be highly annoyed with someone stirring up trouble in my marriage if no action is being taken against my husband.
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BlueEyedLady
Guest
Yep. Every single word of this, 100%. (Minus having 8 kids
)
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underacloud
Guest
Is “taunting” the right word to use here? It sounds more like the other men (apart from the one who felt an apology was owed) honestly thought this would be received in good humor and were surprised by the OP’s reaction. Again, I’m not trying to excuse or justify their actions, but they seem more along the lines of immaturity than maliciousness.
The husband handed over the phone and invited them to text her. It’s perhaps reasonable to assume they did think it was some fun interplay between husband and wife that they were joining in on. (again, immature and inexcusable, but hardly malicious). I have a friend who engages in such playful texting with his wife while on boys nights out, and it is taken in good humor (and no, I do not get involved). I’m much more confortable being with other men who are "sexually harrassing’ their own wives than men who are ogling stangers in public and disrespecting their wives.
In short, it’s the husband who needs to take responsibility.
The husband handed over the phone and invited them to text her. It’s perhaps reasonable to assume they did think it was some fun interplay between husband and wife that they were joining in on. (again, immature and inexcusable, but hardly malicious). I have a friend who engages in such playful texting with his wife while on boys nights out, and it is taken in good humor (and no, I do not get involved). I’m much more confortable being with other men who are "sexually harrassing’ their own wives than men who are ogling stangers in public and disrespecting their wives.
In short, it’s the husband who needs to take responsibility.
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Walking_Home
Guest
You are saying that if your husband came up to a friend of yours from church at the parish picnic and taunted her about lewd text messages that she could show you, he would not apologize, and she complained to you about it, you would say, “Don’t tell me, tell Father. Hubby is a grown man. If he insulted you, it is none of my business. I won’t even so much as ask him about it. I wasn’t there, I’ll have nothing to do with it.”
If that is how you treat your friends–your husband can treat them any way you like, and you will never say a word to him about it–why do you have any friends? How does this change because this woman is merely a fellow parishioner and not a personal friend of yours?
I will guarantee you that there are other women who would be mad because someone went to Father and “made it public” instead of going to her. It is a Catch-22 in which no one seems to care too much about the person who did NOTHING to deserve this treatment and who is getting this treatment FROM BROTHERS AND SISTERS IN CHRIST AT HER CHURCH!! If no one has her back there, if no one there will say “no, this is not acceptable, no matter who is doing it,” then where?
You’re not his mother?!? Your husband is taunting some other woman at a church picnic over something like this, and this is* her *problem? Leave her alone, let her deal with it, she’s looking for a scapegoat?
You honestly won’t believe her if she comes to you personally, but you will believe her if she goes to the pastor? Yeah, sure, that’s what I’d expect, that any woman would say! “Oh, you told Father? Oh, well, that’s different! You must not want to stir up trouble, if you’re going straight to Father!”
I have heard it all. I cannot believe that anyone in a Catholic parish would countenance this for 30 seconds. It is disgusting and a disgrace to the whole parish. There should be no one who does not care that it happened.
When hubby pulled his cell phone from his pocket, the man with the brain (there had to be one there) ought to have told him, “Put that back in your pocket. You are not in high school any more. You are a man and you are at a parish function. Grow up, you guys, or maybe you should ask yourselves if you have a drinking problem. This is over the top.”
That is what her father would do. That is what the pastor would do. Why no one else? That the women won’t speak up for her? Unbelievable. Simply unbelievable.
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bitterhope
Guest
Actually Easter Joy I do care about what this lady went through. It is not alright or ok in any way. I just don’t see how going to the wives will help anything. All that would do is cause more problems with no solutions. I don’t see how that is helpful to her. She’s been through enough. Her family has had more than it’s fair share of hard times. Going around telling the wives will accomplish what exactly? Do they have the power to fix the situation or make up for the harm caused? No, they really don’t. The pastor has authority over his parish.
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pianistclare
Guest
Agreed.
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truetofaith
Guest
I say she should drop the whole issue…she told her husband what a stupid thing he did, now she must tell him that it better not ever happen again, or else!
Hopefully, he learned a lesson from this.
Hopefully, he learned a lesson from this.
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Xantippe
Guest
So, what was the lesson he is supposed to have learned?
If he can’t come up with what the lesson was, he hasn’t learned it.
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EasterJoy
Guest
They have no power to tell their husbands that this is offensive to the women of the parish generally? They have no power to urge their husbands to apologize? They have no power to insist that the men’s group deal with this? Why should the simple hope for a recognition that this should absolutely NOT be repeated be something to put her through “hard times”? I am sorry, I am really not following that line of thought.
Let us say that the scenario played out a little differently. Let us say that she caught on immediately that this was not from her husband, but decided to have a little “fun” of her own. She went along with the pranksters and texted back in kind, just enough so that the men in the group could not be sure she knew it was her husband or not. At the picnic the next day, it is you who are being told what a great joke this all was and how your husband was one of the ones egging it all on. Do you still have a hands-off attitude? You think that whatever happens, the main thing is that you be kept in the dark about it?
I’m not advocating for anyone to fly off of the handle. I am only saying that she’s made it clear that she did not welcome this and those who did it to her are not apologizing but accusing her of being a bad sport. She has let them know directly that this was offensive, and they’re doubling down! Besides, even if it did not bother her at all and even if she liked it, it was a violation against chastity perpetrated by a Catholic men’s group as cheap entertainment. How is it that the spouses of those directly involved in this are not also involved? How is it that they have no place to insist that these guys owe apologies not just to the woman they made this lewd joke at directly, but owe apologies to their own wives, too?
I give up.
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EasterJoy
Guest
Or else what? Why is there a mulligan, when he’s accusing her of being too sensitive, too “high and mighty,” and all the rest? What “lesson”? The lesson that if he gets defensive and yells at me for refusing to accept unacceptable behavior, I’ll just back down and pretend that backing down is what a “good sport” does? Expect that lesson to come back around in a remedial course. Repeat, repeat, repeat, until this mysterious “what else” kicks in, whatever that is.
In her shoes, I wouldn’t feel as if he’d learned a thing. He’d just showed me that when it comes to a choice between my feelings and impressing someone else, impressing someone else wins. He wants me to back down and stuff my feelings so that he doesn’t have to actually do anything to make up for the damage he caused. Oh, and I “learned” it is OK with him when his friends amuse themselves by texting lewd things in my direction, posing as him in the hopes of a little thrill. Sorry, I don’t trust him and I don’t trust those jerks in the men’s group, either. That would violate common sense. If they were sorry, they’d act sorry. They don’t. They aren’t.
Oh, well. I said I give up, so I’ll give up. It is an understatement to say I’m disappointed with this thread, though.
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