I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes

[Kscrawler]

Do you think the Protestant Reformation occured for non-essential reasons?

Of course. it occurred for non essential reasons.

Let’s review:
You have a misunderstanding of Catholic teaching we have given you examples both from the catechism and from the Reformation. You have yet to acknowledge this and that alone makes the Reformation non essential.

Regularly posts are given showing the writings of Paul as being in conflict with your position. Yet you continually ignore those posts while still calling for scripture just from Paul. Do you not see those posts?

Examples are given of how the scripture must be read as a whole and you ignore those pleas, (note this does not mean the scripture is in conflict) but it does mean you have to study a little harder than you have done. If the only answer you have is that because a piece of scripture is short it should be discounted well that shows your unwillingness to read all of God’s word.

Like Luther you’ve already got your mind made up, are ignoring scripture which puts us in the position where the Catholics on this board are practicing sola scriptura and you are practicing what can only be called “partial scriptura”.

 

[Reformed]

Do you think the Protestant Reformation occured for non-essential reasons?

Of course. it occurred for non essential reasons.

Let’s review:
You have a misunderstanding of Catholic teaching we have given you examples both from the catechism and from the Reformation. You have yet to acknowledge this and that alone makes the Reformation non essential.

Regularly posts are given showing the writings of Paul as being in conflict with your position. Yet you continually ignore those posts while still calling for scripture just from Paul. Do you not see those posts?

Examples are given of how the scripture must be read as a whole and you ignore those pleas, (note this does not mean the scripture is in conflict) but it does mean you have to study a little harder than you have done. If the only answer you have is that because a piece of scripture is short it should be discounted well that shows your unwillingness to read all of God’s word.

Like Luther you’ve already got your mind made up, are ignoring scripture which puts us in the position where the Catholics on this board are practicing sola scriptura and you are practicing what can only be called “partial scriptura”.

The essence of this thread is the same as this ongoing one:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=272059&page=22

The only difference is that this thread is more controlled within the writings of Paul to force you to understand why the Protestant Reformation occured. If the Protestant Reformation occured for non-essential issues, then the Reformation is a work of the devil and Protestants are truly heretics who need to repent and return to Rome to be saved. Toda scriptural (all of Scripture) was a Reformation call too. Now, let’s get back on track and return to the gospel of God’s grace according to Paul.

 

[Kscrawler]

The essence of this thread is the same as this ongoing one:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=272059&page=22

The only difference is that this thread is more controlled within the writings of Paul to force you to understand why the Protestant Reformation occured. If the Protestant Reformation occured for non-essential issues, then the Reformation is a work of the devil and Protestants are truly heretics who need to repent and return to Rome to be saved. Toda scriptural (all of Scripture) was a Reformation call too. Now, let’s get back on track and return to the gospel of God’s grace according to Paul.

What then do you see is the conflict between the writings of Paul and Catholic theology?

 

[cfrancis]

Now, let’s get back on track and return to the gospel of God’s grace according to Paul.

We’ve been there, Reformed. You are the one ignoring the posts on this topic. We don’t really need to post links to all the posts in this thread that deal with this very topic for you, do we?

 

[Reformed]

Just as Jesus says in Jn 3:3-5, the jailer was born from above when he was batpized with water - unless you can produce Scripture that tells us the jailer was born again some other way.

And hearing the gospel the jailer and his family believed all Jesus Christ said and did; which is why the jailer and his household were baptized to be born again.

LOL… you guys like to twist the scriptures…sorry but that’s too funny. We are all dependent on the Holy Spirit to understand spiritual truth. Now try to reconcile your post with Romans chapter 3 and 4 as well as the OP. We can discuss John chapter 3 and all of the writings of John on another thread.

1 Corinthians 1:17

For Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel, and not with words of eloquent wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power

 

[Pixie_Dust]

If the Protestant Reformation occured for non-essential issues, then the Reformation is a work of the devil and Protestants are truly heretics who need to repent and return to Rome to be saved. Toda scriptural (all of Scripture) was a Reformation call too. Now, let’s get back on track and return to the gospel of God’s grace according to Paul.

No, the truth is that Protestants need to return to the Church that Jesus Christ founded, the Catholic Church, any of the 23 Rites will do. No need to get a passport and plane ticket and hotel reservations and travel to Rome. The good news is that if you have been baptized in the Name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, you are already considered a member of the Catholic Church, just not fully in communion with Christ’s Church.

 

[Reformed]

No, the truth is that Protestants need to return to the Church that Jesus Christ founded, the Catholic Church, any of the 23 Rites will do. No need to get a passport and plane ticket and hotel reservations and travel to Rome. The good news is that if you have been baptized in the Name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, you are already considered a member of the Catholic Church, just not fully in communion with Christ’s Church.

Yes, I am a member of the Catholic Church by the grace of God. However, I am a protestor of the Roman Catholic Church. And we know these are two different things. I will see you guys tomorrow… Lord willing.

http://www.treesforlife.org.uk/images/boar-sow-and-young.jpg

The Spirit of the wild boar lives on by the grace of God alone!

 

[cfrancis]

LOL… you guys like to twist the scriptures…sorry but that’s too funny. We are all dependent on the Holy Spirit to understand spiritual truth. Now try to reconcile your post with Romans chapter 3 and 4 as well as the OP.

1 Corinthians 1:17

For Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel, and not with words of eloquent wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power

Your opinion is appreciated, but unsupported by anything you’ve produced in the thread.

Perhaps we should look at what Paul says in 1 Cor 1:
14 I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius,
15 so that no one would say you were baptized in my name.
16 Now I did baptize also the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I do not know whether I baptized any other.
17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not in cleverness of speech, so that the cross of Christ would not be made void.

Paul is not negating regenerative baptism, as you would like him to be saying. he’s addressing the division within the Corinthian community, as people who were baptized by Paul (note, he did baptize -see vv14-15) Peter, and Apollos were claiming a haughty faith, not based on Christ and power of baptism, but on the prominence of the one who baptized them:

11 For I have been informed concerning you, my brethren, by Chloe’s people, that there are quarrels among you.
12 Now I mean this, that each one of you is saying, “I am of Paul,” and “I of Apollos,” and “I of Cephas,” and “I of Christ.”
13 Has Christ been divided? Paul was not crucified for you, was he? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?

 

[Kscrawler]

Yes, I am a member of the Catholic Church by the grace of God. However, I am a protestor of the Roman Catholic Church. And we know these are two different things. I will see you guys tomorrow.

And what is it exactly that you are protesting? What do you see as the conflict? We know it’s not about salvation through works because we have shown you multiple times the Catholic Church does not believe that. So what is it that you are protesting?

 

[CHRISTINE77]

Yes, I am a member of the Catholic Church by the grace of God. However, I am a protestor of the Roman Catholic Church. And we know these are two different things. I will see you guys tomorrow… Lord willing.

http://www.treesforlife.org.uk/images/boar-sow-and-young.jpg

The Spirit of the wild boar lives on by the grace of God alone!

Wild BORE is more like it!

If there wasn’t a Catholic Church, you wouldn’t even have a religion. The Catholic Chuch kept the whole message of Jesus alive from the beginning. You can protest all you want, but be aware of where your religion came from.

 

[Love_is_Patient]

LOL… you guys like to twist the scriptures…sorry but that’s too funny. We are all dependent on the Holy Spirit to understand spiritual truth. Now try to reconcile your post with Romans chapter 3 and 4 as well as the OP. We can discuss John chapter 3 and all of the writings of John on another thread.

1 Corinthians 1:17

For Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel, and not with words of eloquent wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power

So Paul was not called to be a parish priest, the ones who usually baptize. He doesn’t say there or anywhere that baptism is unnecessary.

No one is twisting Scripture here. I’m sorry you can’t see it.

You really like Maricon, don’t you?

 

[Love_is_Patient]

Yes, I am a member of the Catholic Church by the grace of God. However, I am a protestor of the Roman Catholic Church. And we know these are two different things. I will see you guys tomorrow… Lord willing.

Actually, no “we” don’t. I’m sorry you refuse to see it.

God Bless.

Love is Patient

 

[Reformed]

And what is it exactly that you are protesting? What do you see as the conflict? We know it’s not about salvation through works because we have shown you multiple times the Catholic Church does not believe that. So what is it that you are protesting?

I am protesting salvation through the Roman Catholic sacraments.

 

[Pixie_Dust]

I am protesting salvation through the -]Roman/-] Catholic sacraments.

Salvation is through the Grace of God, which is given to us in the Sacraments and in other ways, as well. They are not the only means of Grace, but they are all found in Scripture. Since you don’t seem to care about what Jesus said in the Gospels, I cannot show you (in this thread, anyway) where He gave us the Sacraments and works through the Sacraments to give us His Grace.

 

[Thing]

Are you trying to use James 2 to nullify over half of the New Testament? Can you proclaim the gospel of God’s grace through the Epistle of James? Are you saying James uses justification in the same way that Paul uses justification? I don’t mean to be cruel or combative, but if you are using James 2 to nullify the 13 or 14 Epistles of Paul, you are doing the exact same thing done by LDS Christians and JW worshipers.

I am telling you simply that St. Paul believes what you do not - St. James.

 

[embertx3]

Opinions are fine because we all have one. You will find sola scriptura Christians can document the Holy Trinity through the Scriptures alone. Please try to support what you are claiming by posting the writings of the Apostle Paul to prove what you are saying. If you cannot come up with the documentation, all you have is your opinion. I hope you and others would be humble enough to post that it can’t be done if it can’t be done. Can the Roman Catholic understanding of the gospel be supported by the Pauline Epistles alone? Here is some help if you can copy and paste.

Go to bible.com because it is legal to cut and paste scripture on that site.

That is your opinion and I have one. It is like you just took the heart of the human body and disregard the the brain that informs the heart to beat. Can you be humble to take all of the Bible/Scriptures and Tradition that the Catholic church has put together so you can have a bible.com to refute it? Back to OP.

God bless

 

[Reformed]

Salvation is through the Grace of God, which is given to us in the Sacraments and in other ways, as well. They are not the only means of Grace, but they are all found in Scripture. Since you don’t seem to care about what Jesus said in the Gospels, I cannot show you (in this thread, anyway) where He gave us the Sacraments and works through the Sacraments to give us His Grace.

I do believe the two sacraments found in the Bible are means of sanctifying grace. However, our division is within justification.

 

[Reformed]

I am telling you simply that St. Paul believes what you do not - St. James.

LOL… I don’t know how to respond. My laugh is not rudness, but maybe your wrote your post to give me chuckle. Look, we all know in part including myself. However, we cannot reject Paul’s gospel if we are to be united to Christ.

Galatians 1

1:1 Paul, an apostle—not from men nor through man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead— 2 and all the brothers [1] who are with me,

To the churches of Galatia:

3 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ, 4 who gave himself for our sins to deliver us from the present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father, 5 to whom be the glory forever and ever. Amen.

No Other Gospel
6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7 not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.

10 For am I now seeking the approval of man, or of God? Or am I trying to please man? If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant [2] of Christ.

 

[Jimdandy]

I am protesting salvation through the Roman Catholic sacraments.

That is your free choice of your free will.
Now, the real question is-is it God’s will?

Perhaps it is-you have challenged some to look deeper into the messages of St.Paul-quite appropriate for this Pauline Year!

OT: Paul wrote, inspired by the Holy Spirit-after being questioned and admonished by Jesus personally.Since Grace is a gift from God by which we given participation in God’s own life in His Love, the letters of St. Paul are particularly helpful in demonstrating that the questions of today’s Christians are most similar to those of the early Christians.

I have spent hours discussing just the first few paragraphs in Romans-such wonderful words for learning and contemplation.

May the Peace of Christ be always with you, I am keeping you in my prayers.

 

[Thing]

reformed:
Neither can you reject St. James - St. James must be St. Paul and St. Paul must be St. James, unless you think one of the Apostles is ‘preaching to you a gospel contrary’…