I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes

[Pixie_Dust]

It’s not by faith alone. It’s by grace alone or by the blood of Christ alone through the instrument of faith alone.

So which is it? Grace, the blood of Christ, or faith? If it is more than one of those things, it is not “alone.”

If you are preaching grace through faith, please explain the (+) portion of it in regards to our justification before God. Are you sure the CC does not teach personal merit in salvation?

We cannot merit anything for ourselves apart from God working through us. Any “merit” that we get is only through God’s grace.

We see how God worked through the Ephesians from the very start of that epistle, I’ve chosen the ESV since you used it earlier. If you’d prefer a different version I will oblige.

15 For this reason, because I have heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love toward all the saints,
16 I do not cease to give thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers,
17 that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of him,
18 having the eyes of your hearts enlightened, that you may know what is the hope to which he has called you, what are the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints,
19 and what is the immeasurable greatness of his power toward us who believe, according to the working of his great might
20that he worked in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places,
21 far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and above every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come.
22And he put all things under his feet and gave him as head over all things to **the church,
23 which is his body, the fullness of him who fills all in all.
**

 

[Pixie_Dust]

Ephesians 2

4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us,
5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—
6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

 

[cfrancis]

Good point, Pixie! Paul says the same in 2 Corinthians 9:8:
And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that always having all sufficiency in everything, you may have an abundance for every good deed;

The good we do is God’s grace working within us and our cooperation with that grace.

Paul repeats this theme often:

Ephesians 2:10
For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

Colossians 1:10
so that you will walk in a manner worthy of the Lord, to please Him in all respects, bearing fruit in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God;

2 Thessalonians 3:13
But as for you, brethren, do not grow weary of doing good.

1 Timothy 6:18
Instruct them to do good, to be rich in good works, to be generous and ready to share,

2 Timothy 2:21
Therefore, if anyone cleanses himself from these things, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified, useful to the Master, prepared for every good work.

In the negative:
Titus 1:16
They profess to know God, but by their deeds they deny Him, being detestable and disobedient and worthless for any good deed.

 

[Pixie_Dust]

Ephesians 3

7 **Of this gospel I was made a minister according to the gift of God’s grace, which was given me by the working of his power. **
8 To me, though I am the very least of all the saints, this grace was given, to preach to the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ,
9 and to bring to light for everyone what is the plan of the mystery hidden for ages in God who created all things,
10 so that through the church the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly places.

 

[Pixie_Dust]

Ephesians 4

1 I therefore, a prisoner for the Lord, urge you to **walk in a manner worthy of the calling to which you have been called, **
2 with all humility and gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another in love,
3 eager to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
4 There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call—
5 **one Lord, one faith, one baptism, **
6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
7 But grace was given to each one of us according to the measure of Christ’s gift…

11And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers,
12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ,
13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ,
14 so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes.
15 Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ,
16 from whom the whole body, joined and held together by every joint with which it is equipped, when each part is working properly, makes the body grow so that it builds itself up in love.

and my favorite verse from this chapter:

32 Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you.

 

[cfrancis]

Ephesians 2

4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us,
5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—
6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

One of my favorites, Pixie! Paul is speaking of God’s grace, not faith:
5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ **(by grace you have been saved), **
**8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; **

No Catholic denies the truth of God’s Word spoken through Paul: – God’s grace is a free gift to us; we cannot place God in a position where He owes us His grace (that is, we cannot earn His grace)

• Our acceptance of this free gift of God’s grace is an act of faith (v8)
• Yet God demands we cooperate with His grace throughout our life, lest we sever our relationship with Him, as we can sin mortally (1 Jn 5:16-17),
• Therefore, part of that cooperation with God’s grace are the good works we do

 

[Pixie_Dust]

Ephesians 5

1 Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children.
2 And walk in love, as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us, a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.

6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.
7Therefore do not become partners with them;
8 for at one time you were darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. **Walk as children of light **
9 (for the fruit of light is found in all that is good and right and true),
10 and try to discern what is pleasing to the Lord.

17 Therefore **do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is. **
18 And do not get drunk with wine, for that is debauchery, but be filled with the Spirit,
19 addressing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody to the Lord with your heart,
20 giving thanks always and for everything to God the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ,
21 submitting to one another out of reverence for Christ.
22 Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord.
23 For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior.
24Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands.

25 Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her,
26 that he might sanctify her, **having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, ** (Baptism!)
27 so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish.

 

[Reformed]

So which is it? Grace, the blood of Christ, or faith? If it is more than one of those things, it is not “alone.”
We cannot merit anything for ourselves apart from God working through us. Any “merit” that we get is only through God’s grace.

We see how God worked through the Ephesians from the very start of that epistle, I’ve chosen the ESV since you used it earlier. If you’d prefer a different version I will oblige.

15 For this reason, because I have heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love toward all the saints,
16 I do not cease to give thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers,
17 that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of him,
18 having the eyes of your hearts enlightened, that you may know what is the hope to which he has called you, what are the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints,
19 and what is the immeasurable greatness of his power toward us who believe, according to the working of his great might
20that he worked in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places,
21 far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and above every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come.
22And he put all things under his feet and gave him as head over all things to **the church,
23 which is his body, the fullness of him who fills all in all.
**

The grace in that we now stand was merited by the life and death (blood) of Jesus Christ on our behalf. As mentioned in a few posts earlier, we are not saved by faith alone. We are saved by grace alone through the instrument of faith alone on the basis of the person and work of Christ alone; therefore all the glory goes to God alone for saving wretched sinners like me and you. There is no boasting in the gospel according to Paul. This understanding is found through all of scripture alone. We haven’t even got into Romans chapter 8 yet.

Romans 5

Peace with God Through Faith

5:1 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we [1] have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Through him we have also obtained access by faith [2] into this grace in which we stand, and we [3] rejoice [4] in hope of the glory of God. 3 More than that, we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, 4 and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, 5 and hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us.

6 For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For one will scarcely die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die— 8 but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. 10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life. 11 More than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.

When remove the word “alone” what is needed in addition to grace alone through faith alone in our justification before God? What is the (+) that is needed? Personal ood works is evidence of already have received justification and never the basis of our justification. Are you saying we need more than the righteousness of Christ to have peace with God?

Romans 10

10:1 Brothers, [1] my heart’s desire and prayer to God for them is that they may be saved. 2 For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For, being ignorant of the righteousness of God, and seeking to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

 

[cfrancis]

Let me help you here:

The grace in that we now stand was merited by the life and death (blood) of Jesus Christ on our behalf.

AMEN!

We are saved by grace alone through the instrument of faith alone on the basis of the person and work of Christ alone;

Again, you’ve yet to show these being taught in Paul’s letters - or anywhere else in Scripture.
Also, we have an issue with what you mean by “saved.”
Do you mean “guaranteed eternity in heaven”?
Do you mean “redeemed”?
What exactly do you mean by “saved”?

therefore all the glory goes to God alone for saving wretched sinners like me and you.

AMEN!

There is no boasting in the gospel according to Paul. This understanding is found through all of scripture alone.

AMEN!

 

[Pixie_Dust]

Ephesians 6 (this is fun! )

1 Children, **obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. **
2 “Honor your father and mother” (this is the first commandment with a promise),
3 “that it may go well with you and that you may live long in the land.”

5 Slaves, **obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling, with a sincere heart, as you would Christ, **
6 not by the way of eye-service, as people-pleasers, but as servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart,
7 rendering service with a good will as to the Lord and not to man,
8 knowing that **whatever good anyone does, this he will receive back from the Lord, **whether he is a slave or free.

13 Therefore **take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand firm. **
14 Stand therefore, having fastened on the belt of truth, and having **put on the breastplate of righteousness, **
15 and, as shoes for your feet, having **put on the readiness given by the gospel of peace. **
16 In all circumstances **take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming darts of the evil one;
17and take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God,
18 praying at all times in the Spirit, **with all prayer and supplication. To that end keep alert with all perseverance, making supplication for all the saints,
19 and also for me, that words may be given to me in **opening my mouth boldly to proclaim the mystery of the gospel, **
20 for which I am an ambassador in chains, that I may declare it boldly, as I ought to speak.

 

[Reformed]

Let me help you here: AMEN!
Again, you’ve yet to show these being taught in Paul’s letters - or anywhere else in Scripture.
Also, we have an issue with what you mean by “saved.”
Do you mean “guaranteed eternity in heaven”?
Do you mean “redeemed”?
What exactly do you mean by “saved”?

AMEN!
AMEN!

Just tell me what else is needed in addition to the righteousness of Christ alone as our basis for our justification. What is the righteousness Paul is speaking about in Romans 10?

Romans 10

10:1 Brothers, [1] my heart’s desire and prayer to God for them is that they may be saved. 2 For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For, being ignorant of the righteousness of God, and seeking to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

---

 

[Reformed]

Ephesians 6 (this is fun! )

1 Children, **obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. **
2 “Honor your father and mother” (this is the first commandment with a promise),
3 “that it may go well with you and that you may live long in the land.”

5 Slaves, **obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling, with a sincere heart, as you would Christ, **
6 not by the way of eye-service, as people-pleasers, but as servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart,
7 rendering service with a good will as to the Lord and not to man,
8 knowing that **whatever good anyone does, this he will receive back from the Lord, **whether he is a slave or free.

13 Therefore **take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand firm. **
14 Stand therefore, having fastened on the belt of truth, and having **put on the breastplate of righteousness, **
15 and, as shoes for your feet, having **put on the readiness given by the gospel of peace. **
16 In all circumstances **take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming darts of the evil one;
17and take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God,
18 praying at all times in the Spirit, **with all prayer and supplication. To that end keep alert with all perseverance, making supplication for all the saints,
19 and also for me, that words may be given to me in **opening my mouth boldly to proclaim the mystery of the gospel, **
20 for which I am an ambassador in chains, that I may declare it boldly, as I ought to speak.

In Christ, there is much that we do by the power of God because we are united to Christ. We agree on that. But are we justified before God in what we do, or are we justified before God in what Christ has already done on our behalf? Remember, Paul and James both use the word justification for different applications and meaning.

 

[cfrancis]

Romans 5

Peace with God Through Faith

5:1 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we [1] have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.

as opposed to works of the Law - the topic of Ch 3 and 4. That’s what the “Therefore” means!

2 Through him we have also obtained access by faith [2] into this grace in which we stand, and we [3] rejoice [4] in hope of the glory of God.

“obtained access” by Christ’s death and resurrection: that’s redemption, as in Christ redeemed all mankind by His death and resurrection.

3 More than that, we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, 4 and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, 5 and hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us.

Our cooperation with God’s grace, as we exercise our free will.

6 For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For one will scarcely die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die— 8 but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God.

Paul speaks of both Christ’s redemptive work on the cross ("justified by His blood) and our eternal salvation (“much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God”). Paul has spoken of being saved “by him from the wrath of God” in Rom 2:5-9.

10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life. 11 More than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.

Again, Paul speaks of the redemptive work of Christ ('reconciled to God by the death of his Son") and eternal salvation.

When remove the word “alone” what is needed in addition to grace alone through faith alone in our justification before God? What is the (+) that is needed?

I can’t find the word “alone” in the section of Rom 5 you presented? Did you forget to include it?

 

[cfrancis]

Remember, Paul and James both use the word justification for different applications and meaning.

Wrong, in so many ways, not the least of which, they use the same Greek word.
Now, please provide the support for your erroneous statement.

 

[Reformed]

Wrong, in so many ways, not the least of which, they use the same Greek word.
Now, please provide the support for your erroneous statement.

Just do this. If we are not justified on the basis of the righteousness of Christ alone, then what else is there? What is the (+) that I keep requesting for?

 

[cfrancis]

This appears to be trend.
Someone asks you a question or asks you to support your statement:

Wrong, in so many ways, not the least of which, they use the same Greek word.
Now, please provide the support for your erroneous statement.

You do not do either; instead, you attempt to distract:

Just do this. If we are not justified on the basis of the righteousness of Christ alone, then what else is there? What is the (+) that I keep requesting for?

Now, you make an erroneous claim re: Paul and James and justification.
Just do this: suppport your statement.

 

[Pixie_Dust]

In Christ, there is much that we do by the power of God because we are united to Christ. We agree on that. But are we justified before God in what we do, or are we justified before God in what Christ has already done on our behalf?

We are justified before God in what Christ has done AND by what Christ does through us. It’s not an either/or situation, it’s both/and.

Remember, Paul and James both use the word justification for different applications and meaning.

Where does it say that in the Bible? According to the BJU Linked Word Project (and BJU, as you well know, is no friend of Catholicism, but the Catholicism they oppose is a monster of their own making, not true Catholicism), the word justified is “dikaioo” in both epistles.

 

[Reformed]

We are justified before God in what Christ has done AND by what Christ does through us. It’s not an either/or situation, it’s both/and.
Where does it say that in the Bible? According to the BJU Linked Word Project (and BJU, as you well know, is no friend of Catholicism, but the Catholicism they oppose is a monster of their own making, not true Catholicism), the word justified is “dikaioo” in both epistles.

LOL!!! Sorry, but it must be very difficult to be Roman Catholic Christian. So, what happens when we dont’ do all things that God has commanded us to do? All Christians struggle in this life and never reach perfect obedience. You guys really don’t understand about entering the sabbath rest found in Christ alone do you?

Future Glory
18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us. 19 For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope 21 that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now. 23 And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. 24 For in this hope we were saved. Now hope that is seen is not hope. For who hopes for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we wait for it with patience.

26 Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words. 27 And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because [6] the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God. 28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, [7] for those who are called according to his purpose. 29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

God’s Everlasting Love
31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be [8] against us? 32 He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things? 33 Who shall bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. 34 Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us. [9] 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword? 36 As it is written,

“For your sake we are being killed all the day long;
we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.”

37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38 For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Rom 8

 

[jimmy]

There is a problem when you seperate the epistles of Paul from the rest of scripture. You speak of Paul as if he preached a different gospel than the rest of the NT writers. The truth is that Paul’s writings are to be read in context of the whole of the NT and further in the context of the whole of the scriptures. And further, why would you focus on the word ‘gospel’? You can not understand what Paul means by the term by ignoring the passages from Paul which don’t mention the word.

The word gospel means good news. The good news of Paul is Christ crucified and risen. The good news of Paul is that Christ has conquered death because if He hasn’t then you are still in your sins and you will still die. Read 1Corinthians15 for this. Christ through His death has conquered death and given Grace to the world that the world might be saved. And how is this? We are baptized into Christ’s death through the sacrament of baptism and we proclaim it unto our death through the reception of the Eucharist[Romans6 and 1Cor.11]. We are integrated into the body of Christ, the Church through the reception of the Eucharist [1Cor.11]. And so those who are “in Christ” have no fear of death(Remember that the body of Christ is the Church) because they live according to the Graces which Christ has given.

 

[Church_Militant]

Please answer post 200. You guys can make all kinds of comments and post opinions, but that is quite irrelevant on this thread. These are the same exact issues that drove the Protestant Reformation.

Not at all. the Reformation was a collection of errors that split the Christian faith when their leaders concocted errant doctrines that have neither basis in scripture nor the historic writings of the early Christians.

These are the same exact issues that is the line in the sand that do not allow us to unite.

And well they should not! God forbid that we ever fall into these same errors. They were refuted 500 years ago and those same refutations are still valid today.

This is the historical reason that we have mutually exclusive gospels.

Cute rhetoric but inaccurate. The Gospel has always been “exclusive”, and as I have pointed out already the Gospel message as preached by the apostles and taught by the New Testament is indeed different from your deficient gospel. In fact the scripturally correct Gospel message can be summed up without ever even referring to the writings of St. Paul, as I have done in the article,How Is A Catholic Saved?

What do you proclaim as the great good news of God to those who are in enmity with God? I thought all Christians are truly evangelists (brings good news - Rom 10).

See link above.