I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes

[cfrancis]

Let’s do this in light of this thread. With all of your presuppositions stated above, do you mind suporting it with the writings of Paul. I think you are just responding with what you have been taught with Scripture and Tradition.

KS didn’t make any presuppositions.

If you believe that the Catholic church teaches that you can earn your way to heaven that’s incorrect. The church does not teach that.

If you believe that the Catholic Church teaches that sacraments without faith can get you to heaven the church doesn’t teach that.

If you believe that the Catholic Church and Paul are in disagreement then you’d be wrong and if you show us what you are talking about we’ll be glad to explain it to you.

Just read Paul, and you’ll find the above statements in total agreement. Paul doesn’t teach the above, neither does the Catholic Church

On the other hand if you believe that you can have faith and still commit mortal sins and be saved, then we do have a disagreement.

If you believe that you can claim faith in Christ and that it’s impossible to lose salvation once you make that clain then we do have a disagreement.

Paul says the above in Rom 11:
17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree,
18 do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you.
19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.”
20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith Do not be conceited, but fear;
21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.
22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.

He also says it in Rom 8, though by exception:
38 For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers,
39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Conspicuously absent in the above list are sins committed!

 

[Reformed]

Brother Reformed,

What does this mean to YOU? In other words, what have you done for the Gospel TODAY?

I’m not sure what you mean. I think we enter into the kingdom by the gospel, and we live as a Christian by the gospel. We also proclaim the gospel to Christians and non-Christians alike.

 

[Reformed]

That’s because the one thing most Protestants like you cannot seem to grasp is that an acorn doesn’t remain an acorn. It grows into an oak.

Jesus knew this and that’s why he told the Apostles that the Father was going to take what was the Son’s and declare it to them. In the same discourse, he told them that the Holy Spirit would guide them into all truth.
That’s also why he gave them the power to bind and loose.

**Tell me - does the Anglican **church of today look much like the early church St. Paul spoke of?

Don’t drift too far away from Paul on this thread. Consider the words of Paul:

But what is God’s reply to him? “I have kept for myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.” 5 So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace. 6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace. - Rom 11

I hope you are not an LDS Christian posing as a Roman Catholic Christian. I reject the great apostasy because God has always had a remnant in all generations of redemptive history. What about the 16th century in regards to the remnant? IMO… God used the writings of Paul to call out a remnant to Himself.

 

[M0nkey]

I’m not sure what you mean. I think we enter into the kingdom by the gospel, and we live as a Christian by the gospel. We also proclaim the gospel to Christians and non-Christians alike.

I’m challenging you to be more specific. If you believe in Jesus to be Lord and Savior. Then this must have some very serious implications.

What then shall we say? Shall we persist in sin that grace may abound? Of course not! - Rom. 6:1

 

[Reformed]

I’m challenging you to be more specific. If you believe in Jesus to be Lord and Savior. Then this must have some very serious implications.

What then shall we say? Shall we persist in sin that grace may abound? Of course not! - Rom. 6:1

What is the gospel of God’s grace according to the Apostle Paul? Do you mind proclaiming the gospel to me? “What must I do to be saved”? What would Paul tell me?

 

[M0nkey]

I urge you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God, your spiritual worship. Do not conform yourselves to this age but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and pleasing and perfect. Rom. 12: 1-2

 

[adstrinity]

What is the gospel of God’s grace according to the Apostle Paul? Do you mind proclaiming the gospel to me? “What must I do to be saved”? What would Paul tell me?

Why ask us? Why not ask St. Paul?

Prayer to Saint Paul the Apostle

O Glorious Saint Paul, after persecuting the Church you became by God’s grace its most zealous Apostle. To carry the knowledge of Jesus, our divine Savior, to the uttermost parts of the earth you joyfully endured prison, scourgings, stonings, and shipwreck, as well as all manner of persecutions culminating in the shedding of the last drop of your blood for our Lord Jesus Christ.

Obtain for us the grace to labor strenuously to being the faith to others and to accept any trials and tribulations that may come our way. Help us to be inspired by your Epistles and to partake of your indomitable love for Jesus, so that after we have finished our course we may join you in praising him in heaven for all eternity. Amen.

Prayer to Saint Paul the Apostle

Great convert and Apostle of the Gentiles, you became Christlike and knew only Christ Crucified. Though extremely learned, you relied completely on the Wisdom received from the Spirit and taught from the abundance of your heart. Instruct modern evangelists - those who preach Christ to others. Let them realize that their actions speak louder than any words they may use. Teach them to use their talents in conveying their God-given message but to rely above all on the promptings of the Spirit. Amen.

​

 

[elvisman]

Don’t drift too far away from Paul on this thread. Consider the words of Paul:

But what is God’s reply to him? “I have kept for myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.” 5 So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace. 6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace. - Rom 11

I hope you are not an LDS Christian posing as a Roman Catholic Christian. I reject the great apostasy because God has always had a remnant in all generations of redemptive history. What about the 16th century in regards to the remnant? IMO… God used the writings of Paul to call out a remnant to Himself.

???
Why on earth would you confuse me with an LDS?
Perhaps you mixed up my post with somebody else’s.
I was responding to SIA’s claim that the Catholic church doesn’t resemble St. Paul’s writings.

A couple of things, though:
If, when you speak of a “remnant” - please don’t offer that nonsense as fodder against the Catholic Church. Jesus never spoke of an invisible, secret Church. On the contrary, he spoke of a visible Church (Matt. 5:14).

 

[Reformed]

I’m challenging you to be more specific. If you believe in Jesus to be Lord and Savior. Then this must have some very serious implications.

What then shall we say? Shall we persist in sin that grace may abound? Of course not! - Rom. 6:1

You know, the question what must we do to be saved is a question asked to the Apostle Paul. What was Paul’s response? What is the gospel?; just proclaim it to me. How do you share Christ to unbelievers? Do you tell them to join the Catholic Church to be saved?

 

[Reformed]

I urge you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God, your spiritual worship. Do not conform yourselves to this age but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and pleasing and perfect. Rom. 12: 1-2

Is this the good news that you proclaim to unbelievers?

 

[Reformed]

???
Why on earth would you confuse me with an LDS?
Perhaps you mixed up my post with somebody else’s.
**I was responding to SIA’s **claim that the Catholic church doesn’t resemble St. Paul’s writings.

A couple of things, though:
If, when you speak of a "remnant" - please don’t offer that nonsense as fodder against the Catholic Church. Jesus never spoke of an invisible, secret Church. On the contrary, he spoke of a visible Church (Matt. 5:14).

Hey Elvisman, didn’t you know Elvis was a Protestant?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elvis_Presley

 

[Reformed]

Why ask us? Why not ask St. Paul?

Prayer to Saint Paul the Apostle

O Glorious Saint Paul, after persecuting the Church you became by God’s grace its most zealous Apostle. To carry the knowledge of Jesus, our divine Savior, to the uttermost parts of the earth you joyfully endured prison, scourgings, stonings, and shipwreck, as well as all manner of persecutions culminating in the shedding of the last drop of your blood for our Lord Jesus Christ.

Obtain for us the grace to labor strenuously to being the faith to others and to accept any trials and tribulations that may come our way. Help us to be inspired by your Epistles and to partake of your indomitable love for Jesus, so that after we have finished our course we may join you in praising him in heaven for all eternity. Amen.

Prayer to Saint Paul the Apostle

Great convert and Apostle of the Gentiles, you became Christlike and knew only Christ Crucified. Though extremely learned, you relied completely on the Wisdom received from the Spirit and taught from the abundance of your heart. Instruct modern evangelists - those who preach Christ to others. Let them realize that their actions speak louder than any words they may use. Teach them to use their talents in conveying their God-given message but to rely above all on the promptings of the Spirit. Amen.

​

In your prayer to Saint Paul, through divine providence…God already answered your prayers to Paul before your prayed it. The answer to your prayers to Paul is found in Paul’s Epistles in the Holy Scriptures.

 

[Claire_from_DE]

His behavior was not according to the Gospel of Christ. Peter did not understand that gentiles are now Christ’s redeemed as are Jewish believers.

It is your interpretation that Peter didn’t understand this. Of course he did! But Peter wasn’t demonstrating this by his actions.

And this was done THROUGH FAITH ALONE. NOT BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW.

This was done by believing and accepting the apostles’ teaching about Jesus, being baptized, and coming into the church founded by Jesus.

Gal 2:11
But when Peter was come to Antioch, I (Paul) withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed

Gal 2:12
For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.

Peter stopped eating with the Gentiles because he feared the reaction of the Jewish Christians, not because he didn’t consider the Gentiles to be Christians.

Gal 2:13
And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.

Gal 2:14
But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, (weren’t living according to what they believed) I said unto Peter before [them] all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?

Gal 2:15
We [who are] Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles,

Gal 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Paul is reminding Peter of this truth which he isn’t living up to. He’s not preaching a new doctrine to Peter.

 

[Claire_from_DE]

Yeah… but you are only saved by the blood THROUGH FAITH ALONE. When you completely have faith that Jesus’ blood pays for your sin and receive this payment. This atonement (Jesus) is ONLY received THROUGH FAITH ALONE.

The Ethiopian eunuch believed Philip’s words. Then he asked to be baptized. He not only believed, he accepted and he obeyed. We are saved through faith, but not faith alone.

 

[Claire_from_DE]

The Gospel to the gentiles was committed to Paul… (that means he’s our appointed apostle unless you are Jewish) is by FAITH ALONE. Romans is a good place for you to start reading/study… aptly named the book of “Romans”

Paul is called the apostle to the gentiles. However, other apostles went to the gentiles in what is now India, Spain, France, and other parts of Europe. Peter went to Antioch and then to Rome. And all preached the same gospel. Paul isn’t ‘our appointed apostle’ any more than the others. He just wrote more letters.

 

[Reformed]

The Ethiopian eunuch believed Philip’s words. Then he asked to be baptized. He not only believed, he accepted and he obeyed. We are saved through faith, but not faith alone.

We are trying to stick to the Apostle Paul on this thread. We are using Paul’s Epstiles and the book of Acts with Paul only.

 

[Reformed]

Paul is called the apostle to the gentiles. However, other apostles went to the gentiles in what is now India, Spain, France, and other parts of Europe. Peter went to Antioch and then to Rome. And all preached the same gospel. Paul isn’t ‘our appointed apostle’ any more than the others. He just wrote more letters.

HI Clare,

Do you mind going back to the OP and share the gospel of God’s grace according to Paul? We are not discussing the other apostles on this post. Thanks.

 

[Claire_from_DE]

Reformed,
cfrancis, Pixie Dust, and Usagi have posted very pertinent comments and quotes that you haven’t really responded to (some in #87 and 93 and 94 I think) about how Paul presents the gospel. I say the gospel instead of Paul’s gospel.

It would be most helpful that, when you post quotes from Paul, you would comment on why you are posting those specific verses. If you could comment on what you think they mean (your interpretation of them) we could better discuss them.

When you just post verses it doesn’t help. Of course we agree with what Paul writes. What we may not agree with is how you, or your denomination’s tradition, interprets his writings.

 

[Claire_from_DE]

HI Clare,

Do you mind going back to the OP and share the gospel of God’s grace according to Paul? We are not discussing the other apostles on this post. Thanks.

				Originally Posted by **believers** 					[forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cad/viewpost.gif](http://forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=4241733#post4241733) 				
			***The Gospel to the gentiles was committed to Paul.**. (that means he's our appointed apostle unless you are Jewish) is by FAITH ALONE. Romans is a good place for you to start reading/study.. aptly named the book of "Romans"

My comment was in response to this posting by believers.
*

 

[elvisman]

Hey Elvisman, didn’t you know Elvis was a Protestant?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elvis_Presley

Yes, I did.
Even the “King” wasn’t perfect . . .