I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes

[Reformed]

Since Roman Catholicism blends justification and sanctification, and Catholic Christians receives final justification at the end of his life, it sure seems the Roman Catholic’s good works done in Christ is the final basis of his justification. And if you were not good enough, then there is purgatory. Do you think my understanding is accurate?

No your understanging is not accurate. You could have saved a lot of time by stating this first. Good Works are not the final basis for justification. The absence of Good works shows that the sinner has turned his back on God’s gift of Grace through Faith. But Grace is always an undesrved gift from God through Faith. Doing good works will not save you. Failing to do good works after you have been given the undeserved Grace to do so is to turn your back on the gift given from God.

This would have been so much easier if you would have taken the time to learn what the Catholic Church teaches instead of setting up a straw man to knock down. Now the good news for you is that the Catholic Church is transparent. You can easily learn what we believe. Now as for what we believe about justification I refer you to the following paragraphs of the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

1996 Our justification comes from the grace of God. Grace is favor, the free and undeserved help that God gives us to respond to his call to become children of God, adoptive sons, partakers of the divine nature and of eternal life.

1991 Justification is at the same time the acceptance of God’s righteousness through faith in Jesus Christ. Righteousness (or “justice”) here means the rectitude of divine love. With justification, faith, hope, and charity are poured into our hearts, and obedience to the divine will is granted us.

1992 Justification has been merited for us by the Passion of Christ who offered himself on the cross as a living victim, holy and pleasing to God, and whose blood has become the instrument of atonement for the sins of all men. Justification is conferred in Baptism, the sacrament of faith. It conforms us to the righteousness of God, who makes us inwardly just by the power of his mercy. Its purpose is the glory of God and of Christ, and the gift of eternal life:

2020 Justification has been merited for us by the Passion of Christ. It is granted us through Baptism. It conforms us to the righteousness of God, who justifies us. It has for its goal the glory of God and of Christ, and the gift of eternal life. It is the most excellent work of God’s mercy.

Those paragraphs above refer to Justification, but what about salvation?

161 Believing in Jesus Christ and in the One who sent him for our salvation is necessary for obtaining that salvation. “Since “without faith it is impossible to please [God]” and to attain to the fellowship of his sons, therefore without faith no one has ever attained justification, nor will anyone obtain eternal life ‘But he who endures to the end.’”

169 Salvation comes from God alone; but because we receive the life of faith through the Church, she is our mother: “We believe the Church as the mother of our new birth, and not in the Church as if she were the author of our salvation.” Because she is our mother, she is also our teacher in the faith.

This whole thread has been driven by your misconceptions about the beliefs of the Catholic Church. I give you an "A for your biblical scholarship and an “F” for your understanding of Catholicism. Before you make any further unwarrnted mistakes I refer you to this link. www.scborromeo.org/ccc.htm

Thanks for the clarification. I think we should continue to quote extra-biblcal sources and sacred tradition on another thread. It is very important that Protestants learn what Rome actually teaches. Please create another thread for that objective. Are you trying to say the Protestant Reformation occured because the Reformers misunderstood what the Roman Catholic Church taught in regards to the Roman Catholic gospel?

Now back to the gospel of God’s grace according to the Apostle Paul.

 

[Reformed]

Your opinion is errant, as I have already shown you. Do you have anything other than your own very fallible opinion that makes your case, or are we supposed to just accept your personal interpretation as the gospel truth just because you say so? I don’t see that happening.

Your thread is about the Gospel. You choose to make it about this supposed predominance of St. Paul’s writings and especially two of his letters, but as I have already pointed out, the “reformed” gospel is different from the one preached on the day of Pentecost and that preached to Saul at his conversion. That is what led him to his salvation, and it was decidedly not a gospel of Sola Fide. In this you mislead those who listen to you.

You will also hear St. James at judgement when he rises up and repeats before the Lord the first verse of his third chapter of that “little letter” that you discount. No doubt you too consider it “an epistle of straw”?:ehh:

Lord God, deliver your faithful from the teachings of errant men and by your Holy Spirit deal with the hearts of those who oppose the truth of Your most holy faith.

You guys are starting to respond just like the LDS Christians on a similar thread I created with Mormons. You are responding with everything except trying to support the Roman Catholic gospel with the writings of Paul. That is breaking the rules of the game on this thread. Eventually, the Mormons on that thread admitted that they could not support their version of the gospel with the Epistles of Paul. If you are willing to admit that, we can end this game. If not, let’s continue but try to stay within the OP. Please help me understand where the Apostle Paul teaches baptismal regeneration, or other Catholic sacraments as the way to salvation. I will try take a long break and read your defense according to Paul later today. Have a great day in the Lord.

 

[Pixie_Dust]

Will you admit that the -]Roman/-] Catholic gospel is dependent of Sacred Tradition and cannot be supported by Scripture alone?

The Catholic Church preaches the same Gospel the Apostles preached. It can be supported by Scripture alone but then we wouldn’t be able to use the word “Trinity” to describe the three persons of God, since it’s not in Scripture. We wouldn’t be able to oppose abortion or polygamy using Scripture alone.

Newsflash - Scripture is a product of Sacred Tradition. When the first Catholics were preaching the Gospel of Christ, they didn’t have a New Testament. Peter, James, John, and even your hero Paul did not carry around the letter to the Romans everywhere they went so they could lead people down the “Romans Road” to salvation. The preached the Gospel and people were converted without ever having a whole Bible in their hands.

 

[cfrancis]

Biblical Christians see our good works as the evidence of already been justified on the sole basis of the perfect righteousness of Christ alone. **We do the works that God prepared us to do in advance out of our love and gratitude for God in what He has done for us in Christ. ** We are not trying to merit our salvation because Christ already merited our salvation for us.

So you do not sin? Do do perfectly every work God has ordained for you (Eph 2:10)?
Or are there occasions where your human nature propels you to do that which you should not, or not do that which you should (Rom 7:15)?

Since Roman Catholicism blends justification and sanctification, and Catholic Christians receives final justification at the end of his life, it sure seems the Roman Catholic’s good works done in Christ is the final basis of his justification.

You seem to want to place Paul in opposition to Jesus, and make Paul a liar for Rom 2:
4 Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?
5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,
6 who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS:
7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life;
8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation.

It’s no surprise to Catholics that Paul’s words echo harmoniously with Jesus Christ in Mt 25:
34 "Then the King will say to those on His right, 'Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
35 ‘For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in;
36 )naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.’

41 "Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;
42f or I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink;
43 I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.’
46 “These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
You may spare me the “please stay within the writings of Paul” line, as the Word of Christ is the same as Paul writes.
Clearly, what we do - how we cooperate (or don’t cooperate) with God’s grace determines where we spend eternity.

Does the Apostle Paul actually teach that we are credited (imputed) with the righteousness of Christ on our account when we first believe as the sole basis of permanent justification before God?

Very good question, and about time you asked it! I’ve addressed Ch 3 in post 94 - you may read it there. The highlight, though, is you question, which Paul answers for us!

You quote Rom 4:

4:1 What then shall we say was gained by [4] Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh?
2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.
3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.”
4 Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due.
5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,
6 just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works:
7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
and whose sins are covered;
8 blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin.”
9 Is this blessing then only for the circumcised, or also for the uncircumcised? We say that faith was counted to Abraham as righteousness.
10 How then was it counted to him? Was it before or after he had been circumcised? It was not after, but before he was circumcised.
11 He received the sign of circumcision as a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised.

Any attempt to place Paul in opposition to good works is to horrifically rend the text from its context. To what work does Paul refer in v2 above? Paul tells us in v10 - circumcision and the Mosaic Law, just as Paul told us in Ch 3. Paul astutely points out God’s grace came upon Abraham, by faith, before circumcision and the Mosaic Law.
Also note Paul’s references to Genesis. In what chapter of Genesis did God credit “to him as righteousness”? Ch 15.
To what chapter does Paul refer when, in vv9-10? Ch 17.
And what happened in between? As you posit, Abraham, once his faith had worked and God credited it to him as righteousness, should ahve perfectly carried out those works God ordained for him.
Did Abraham do this?
Ch16 of Genesis tells us, no, he didn’t. Instead of trusting God and doing God’s will, Abraham took matters into his own hands, giving life to Ishmael via Hagar.
In Ch 17, God re-news the covenant (interesting, eh?), this time adding circumcision.
After Gen 15, Abraham was a friend of God; Abraham’s actions in Ch 16 broke the relationship, which God renewed in Ch 17.
If Abraham was permanently justified - with no chance to lose the relationship - in Ch 15, God’s renewal of the covenant, and adding to it, was pointless in Ch 17.

 

[cfrancis]

Will you admit that the Roman Catholic gospel is dependent of Sacred Tradition and cannot be supported by Scripture alone?

Uh…no. But I will admit this:

• your gospel cannot be supported by Scripture alone or with Tradition
• you choose not to address the posts that clearly counter your opinion with Scripture.

Will you admit you are not able to address what Scripture says to counter your opinion?

 

[Reformed]

The Catholic Church preaches the same Gospel the Apostles preached. It can be supported by Scripture alone but then we wouldn’t be able to use the word “Trinity” to describe the three persons of God, since it’s not in Scripture. We wouldn’t be able to oppose abortion or polygamy using Scripture alone.

Newsflash - Scripture is a product of Sacred Tradition. When the first Catholics were preaching the Gospel of Christ, they didn’t have a New Testament. Peter, James, John, and even your hero Paul did not carry around the letter to the Romans everywhere they went so they could lead people down the “Romans Road” to salvation. The preached the Gospel and people were converted without ever having a whole Bible in their hands.

Opinions are fine because we all have one. You will find sola scriptura Christians can document the Holy Trinity through the Scriptures alone. Please try to support what you are claiming by posting the writings of the Apostle Paul to prove what you are saying. If you cannot come up with the documentation, all you have is your opinion. I hope you and others would be humble enough to post that it can’t be done if it can’t be done. Can the Roman Catholic understanding of the gospel be supported by the Pauline Epistles alone? Here is some help if you can copy and paste.

Go to bible.com because it is legal to cut and paste scripture on that site.

 

[cfrancis]

You guys are starting to respond just like the LDS Christians on a similar thread I created with Mormons. You are responding with everything except trying to support the Roman Catholic gospel with the writings of Paul.

Wow - what a blatant misrepresentation of reality. What is true is you are not addressing those posts where Scripture clearly teaches against your opinion. Such is surely

“breaking the rules of the game on this thread.”

Eventually, you will have to admit you can

“not support [your] version of the gospel with the Epistles of Paul.” If you are willing to admit that, we can end this game.

Opinions are fine because we all have one. But try to support what you are claiming by posting the writings of the Apostle Paul to prove what you are saying. If you cannot come up with the documentation, all you have is your opinion. I hope you and others would be humble enough to post that it can’t be done if it can’t be done. Can the Roman Catholic understanding of the gospel be supported by the Pauline Epistles alone? Here is some help if you can copy and paste.

Go to bible.com because it is legal to cut and paste scripture on that site.

Again, you choose to selectively read posts, ignoring those that present Scripture clearly contradicting you version of the gospel. Go back, read ALL the posts to see your position is not tenable with Scripture, then, I

hope you and others would be humble enough to post that it can’t be done if it can’t be done.

 

[Reformed]

Wow - what a blatant misrepresentation of reality. What is true is you are not addressing those posts where Scripture clearly teaches against your opinion. Such is surely
Eventually, you will have to admit you can

Again, you choose to selectively read posts, ignoring those that present Scripture clearly contradicting you version of the gospel. Go back, read ALL the posts to see your position is not tenable with Scripture, then, I

Okay, I really need to work for the rest of the day. Please provide writings of the Apostle Paul showing the gospel through the Roman Catholic sacraments? I promise I will read the response to this direct question.

 

[cfrancis]

Okay, I really need to work for the rest of the day. Please provide writings of the Apostle Paul showing the gospel through the Roman Catholic sacraments? I promise I will read the response to this direct question.

No - you please respond to the posts that contain Paul’s writings that clearly dispel your version of the gospel.

 

[Church_Militant]

It’s interesting that defenses of
Catholic doctrine comes from extra-biblical sources. The links are appreciated but come outside the scope of this thread. Please feel free to start another thread if this one seems stacked against you.

I don’t think so. Those extra Biblical sources that you decry are directly related to the very topic of this thread, which is the proper understanding of the Gospel of salvation, and I will continue to post on this thread in refutation of your errors, regardless of your opinion, and condescending tone.

This thead allows Roman Catholic Christians to understand how Biblical Christians

think and believe.Here again you make an errant assertion, because Catholics are “Biblical Christians”, and have been for 2,000 years, unlike “the reformed”.

In essence, the Roman Catholic Christian can play the sola scriptura game with us Protestants.

You are invited to play the sola scriptura game! Please see the OP for the rules.

No! Absolutely not!

Every knowledgeable Catholic on this forum knows full well that this is a path that leads only to the same errors of the reformers and their modern step children. We do not accept the error of Sola Scriptura and it is not a “game” that any Christian who’s objectively read the Bible will even consider, because it is simply not a Biblical doctrine to begin with.

You may think you can set SS as the basis for your deceptive thread, but you need to remember that you are a guest in a Catholic forum and if you want to bind yourself by your “rules”, fine, but don’t expect faithful and knowledgeable Catholics to be fools enough to allow ourselves to be bound by such a deceitful tactic as this. The historically verifiable writings of the early church where they speak to any issue that you bring up are always fair responses because they simply confirm what the scriptures and the catholic Church has taught all along.

If you cannot prove your case in the face of both scripture and historical writings of the early Christians, then that’s kinda too bad because it becomes clear that you are the one who feels that “this one seems stacked against you. ”

The topic is the New Testament’s teachings on salvation, and what the early church had to say about that is directly relevant. Without it…one get’s only a part of the Gospel, just as you are presenting in trying to limit this discussion to just Romans and Galatians. Don’t :crying: about it. Just admit that your salvation message is different from that in the New Testament and the early church and let it go. If you don’t like that fact then I strongly suggest that you get yourself into instruction to come into the Catholic Church ASAP.

 

[Kscrawler]

Thanks for the clarification. I think we should continue to quote extra-biblcal sources and sacred tradition on another thread. It is very important that Protestants learn what Rome actually teaches. Please create another thread for that objective. Are you trying to say the Protestant Reformation occured because the Reformers misunderstood what the Roman Catholic Church taught in regards to the Roman Catholic gospel?

Now back to the gospel of God’s grace according to the Apostle Paul.

What? Are you trying to say that the Catholic Church teaches something other than what is in the catechism? Nonsense. You remind me more and more of Luther. Your presuppositions drive you to ignore what is directly in front of you.

As to the issue of whether or not the Reformers misunderstood what the Roman Catholic Church taught the answer is of course they misunderstood. Here for example is the very first canon of the Council of Trent

CANON I.-If any one saith, that man may be justified before God by his own works, whether done through the teaching of human nature, or that of the law, without the grace of God through Jesus Christ; let him be anathema.

No, not during the Reformation, not before the Reformation, and at no time after has the Catholic Church ever taught that you are justified by your works.

Now I have shown you through the current catechism and through documents of the church during the time of the Reformation what the church really believes. Why do you keep propping up this strawman.

Now if you were to ask me was there corruption at the time of the Reformation yes. Was the churrch in need of reform yes. Was a Schism necessary, no. Was selling indulgences a grave corruption yes. Was that ever part of the teaching authority of the Catholic Church, no.

What we gained from the Reformation was in many ways good in particular in that it sparked CounterReformation But some of things brought into Christendom are terribly problematic. You have demonstrated several of them.

One of the worst is self fulfilling theology. First you decide what you want to believe and then you decide what scripture to follow. There was no greater proponent of that than Luther and I see in these posts you echoing his error. Paraphrasing the boar in Orwells Animal House your positiion would be that, “all scripture is equal, but some is more equal than others”.

So while there is no arguement or disagreement with the Catholic Church and Paul you find it necessary to doubt the epistle of St. James. And of course Luther had to toss out parts of the canon that had been sacred scripture for 12 centuries when he chose to doubt the deuterocanonical chapters of the Bible, becaues they didn’t fit his presuppositions.

Rampant individualism in biblical interpretation is dramatically reflected in Protestantism. There are over 35,000 Protestant denominations with 5 new ones each week, all proclaiming that they are following sola scriptura. In my own little town there are 6 Baptist churches, 2 Lutheran Churches, and none of them speak to one another, and all are sure the other guy is wrong. And like you none of them understand what Catholicism teaches.

 

[Pixie_Dust]

Opinions are fine because we all have one. You will find sola scriptura Christians can document the Holy Trinity through the Scriptures alone.

Chapter and verse where I can find the word “Trinity” then, if you please.

Please try to support what you are claiming by posting the writings of the Apostle Paul to prove what you are saying. If you cannot come up with the documentation, all you have is your opinion. I hope you and others would be humble enough to post that it can’t be done if it can’t be done. Can the Roman Catholic understanding of the gospel be supported by the Pauline Epistles alone?

I have done so, but I will do so again. It’s possible you missed it in this very fast-moving thread.

Go to bible.com because it is legal to cut and paste scripture on that site.

I prefer Biblegateway.com, but thank you for the suggestion. Since I’m not sure which version of Scripture you would prefer, I’ll post each passage in multiple versions. If I missed your version of choice, do let me know.

According to St Paul the Apostle, I am already saved:

Romans 8:24 - (D-R) For we are saved by hope. But hope that is seen, is not hope. For what a man seeth, why doth he hope for?

(KJV) 24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

(NASB) 24 For in hope we have been saved, but hope that is seen is not hope; for who hopes for what he already sees?

(ESV) 24 For in this hope we were saved. Now hope that is seen is not hope. For who hopes for what he sees?

Ephesians 2:5-8 - (D-R) 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together in Christ, (by whose grace you are saved,)
6 And hath raised us up together, and hath made us sit together in the heavenly places, through Christ Jesus.
7 That he might shew in the ages to come the abundant riches of his grace, in his bounty towards us in Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, for it is the gift of God;

(KJV) 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

(NASB) 5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
6 and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
7 so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

(ESV) 5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ— by grace you have been saved— 6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

 

[Pixie_Dust]

Reformed:

Can the -]Roman/-] Catholic understanding of the gospel be supported by the Pauline Epistles alone?

According to St Paul the Apostle, I am being saved:
**
I Corinthians 1:8** (D-R) Who also will confirm you unto the end without crime, in the day of the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

(KJV) Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

(NASB) who will also confirm you to the end, blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

(ESV) who will sustain you to the end, guiltless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Corinthians 2:15 (D-R) For we are the good odour of Christ unto God, in them that are saved, and in them that perish.

(KJV) For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:

(NASB) For we are a fragrance of Christ to God among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing;

(ESV) For we are the aroma of Christ to God among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing,

Philippians 2:12 (D-R) Wherefore, my dearly beloved, (as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but much more now in my absence,) with fear and trembling work out your salvation.

(KJV) Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

(NASB) So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling;

(ESV) Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling,

 

[Pixie_Dust]

Reformed:

Can the -]Roman/-] Catholic understanding of the gospel be supported by the Pauline Epistles alone?

According to St Paul the Apostle, I have hope that I will be saved:

Romans 5:9-10 (D-R) Christ died for us; much more therefore, being now justified by his blood, shall we be saved from wrath through him.
10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son; much more, being reconciled, shall we be saved by his life.

(KJV) 9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

(NASB) 9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.
10For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

(ESV) 9 Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. 10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life.

I Corinthians 3:12-15 (D-R) 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation, gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble:
13 Every man’s work shall be manifest; for the day of the Lord shall declare it, because it shall be revealed in fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work, of what sort it is.
14 If any man’s work abide, which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man’s work burn, he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire.

(KJV) 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is.
14 If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

(NASB) 12 Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,
13 each man’s work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man’s work.
14 If any man’s work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward.
15 If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

(ESV) 12 Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw— 13 each one’s work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. 14 If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.

 

[Reformed]

According to St Paul the Apostle, I am being saved:
**
I Corinthians 1:8** (D-R) Who also will confirm you unto the end without crime, in the day of the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

(KJV) Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

(NASB) who will also confirm you to the end, blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

(ESV) who will sustain you to the end, guiltless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Corinthians 2:15 (D-R) For we are the good odour of Christ unto God, in them that are saved, and in them that perish.

(KJV) For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:

(NASB) For we are a fragrance of Christ to God among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing;

(ESV) For we are the aroma of Christ to God among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing,

Philippians 2:12 (D-R) Wherefore, my dearly beloved, (as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but much more now in my absence,) with fear and trembling work out your salvation.

(KJV) Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

(NASB) So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling;

(ESV) Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling,

That’s great, and thank you for playing along. The gospel according to Paul is the power of God of salvation for all who believe. The gospel is something we proclaim to the lost for entrance into the kingdom of God; the gospel is also what we proclaim to Christians and ourselves for daily living. Biblical preaching is proclaiming the gospel to Christians on Sunday. We should personally proclaim the gospel to ourselves everyday. We walk by faith in what God has revealed in the gospel of His Son. Consider this verse that you posted in context:

Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure. - Phil 2

I do agree that salvation includes the past, present and future. I think the major area of disagreement is in justification. What is the sole basis of our justification as sinners who have made peace with God? Consider Romans 5:

Romans 5

Peace with God Through Faith

Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God. More than that, we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, and hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us.

For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. For one will scarcely die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die— but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life. More than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.

 

[Pixie_Dust]

Reformed:

Can the -]Roman/-] Catholic understanding of the gospel be supported by the Pauline Epistles alone?

Like St Paul the Apostle exhorts, I am working out my salvation with fear and trembling:

Philippians 2:12 (D-R) Wherefore, my dearly beloved, (as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but much more now in my absence,) with fear and trembling work out your salvation.

(KJV) Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

(NASB) So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling;

(ESV) Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling,

 

[Church_Militant]

Oh…and I think I’ll take this opportunity to point out something that I have been thinking about for a week or so now.

You guys know how we Catholics often catch grief from a-Cs for this passage of the catechism?

842 The Church’s bond with non-Christian religions is in the first place the common origin and end of the human race:

All nations form but one community. This is so because all stem from the one stock which God created to people the entire earth, and also because all share a common destiny, namely God. His providence, evident goodness, and saving designs extend to all against the day when the elect are gathered together in the holy city. . .331

843 The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as "a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life."332

844 In their religious behavior, however, men also display the limits and errors that disfigure the image of God in them:

Very often, deceived by the Evil One, men have become vain in their reasonings, and have exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and served the creature rather than the Creator. Or else, living and dying in this world without God, they are exposed to ultimate despair.333

845 To reunite all his children, scattered and led astray by sin, the Father willed to call the whole of humanity together into his Son’s Church. The Church is the place where humanity must rediscover its unity and salvation. The Church is “the world reconciled.” She is that bark which “in the full sail of the Lord’s cross, by the breath of the Holy Spirit, navigates safely in this world.” According to another image dear to the Church Fathers, she is prefigured by Noah’s ark, which alone saves from the flood.334

“Outside the Church there is no salvation”

846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337

848 "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."338

Now, if one looks at the catechism footnotes here, you’ll find that 333 cites a reference in Romans 1, and I’ll include the context to make the support for the Catholic teaching (on salvation no less) all the more obvious.
[19] For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them.
[20] Ever since the creation of the world his invisible nature, namely, his eternal power and deity, has been clearly perceived in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse;
[21] for although they knew God they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking and their senseless minds were darkened.
… Chapter 2:[13] For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified.
[14] When Gentiles who have not the law do by nature what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law.
[15] They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness and their conflicting thoughts accuse or perhaps excuse them
[16] on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.
…[26] So, if a man who is uncircumcised keeps the precepts of the law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision?
[27] Then those who are physically uncircumcised but keep the law will condemn you who have the written code and circumcision but break the law.
…Chapter 3:[29] Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also,
[30] since God is one; and he will justify the circumcised on the ground of their faith and the uncircumcised through their faith.

So then, there’s a perfect example of the New Testament basis for Catholic salvation teaching because it plainly tells us that those who “through no fault of their own” do not know the Gospel and yet obey the natural law they find within them will have the hope of salvation as God will deal with them accordingly.

Nice…when St. Paul wrote Romans he was obviously a Catholic.

But then…we all already knew that.

 

[Pixie_Dust]

Reformed:

Can the -]Roman/-] Catholic understanding of the gospel be supported by the Pauline Epistles alone?

Like St Paul the Apostle, I have hopeful confidence in the promises of Christ:

Romans 5:2 (D-R) By whom also we have access through faith into this grace, wherein we stand, and glory in the hope of the glory of the sons of God.

(KJV) By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

(NASB) through whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand; and we exult in hope of the glory of God.

(ESV) Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

2 Timothy 2:11-13 (D-R) 11 A faithful saying: for if we be dead with him, we shall live also with him.
12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him. If we deny him, he will also deny us.
13If we believe not, he continueth faithful, he can not deny himself.

(KJV) 11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:
12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

(NASB) 11 It is a trustworthy statement:
For if we died with Him, we will also live with Him;
12 If we endure, we will also reign with Him;
If we deny Him, He also will deny us;
13If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.

(ESV) The saying is trustworthy, for:
If we have died with him, we will also live with him; 12 if we endure, we will also reign with him; if we deny him, he also will deny us; 13 if we are faithless, he remains faithful—
for he cannot deny himself.

 

[cfrancis]

Fellow Catholics, it appears we’ve all presented Paul’s writings and their harmony with both Christ’s words and Catholic beliefs. We have presented chapter and verse of Paul’s writings - yet Reformed continues to ask for such presentation and/or ignore such presentation.

Reformed, the ball is in your court to answer those posts revealing your beliefs to be in contradiction to Scripture.

 

[Reformed]

Let’s look at salvation and the gospel of God’s grace as a journey of past, present and future according to Paul. Let’s start with entrance (past for those in Christ). Let’s say your neighbor asked you the question:

Acts 16:30

“Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”

How does the Apostle Paul respond to this question? Try to stay within the Scriptures and the Apostle Paul.