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sandusky
Guest
Make you point, please.
I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes
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cfrancis
Guest
OK!
Look at the list:
38 For I am convinced that neither
- death,
- nor life,
- nor angels,
- nor principalities,
- nor things present,
- nor things to come,
- nor powers,
- 39 nor height,
- nor depth,
- nor any other created thing,
Here’s a list from Rom 1:
29 being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips,
30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents,
31 without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful;
The reward for such behavior? Wrath and indignation, from Rom 2:
8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation.
9 There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek,
Paul is very consistent in his writing; no one or nothing external can separate us form God, but our choice to sin can.
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sandusky
Guest
The sin issue has been dealt with by Christ***:**Romans 7:1-6
1 Or do you not know, brethren (for I am speaking to those who know the law), that the law has jurisdiction over a person as long as he lives?
2 For the married woman is bound by law to her husband while he is living; but if her husband dies, she is released from the law concerning the husband.
3 So then, if while her husband is living she is joined to another man, she shall be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from the law, so that she is not an adulteress though she is joined to another man.
4 Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God.
5 For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law, were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death.
6 But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.
***The debt of sin for the justified believer has been forever cancelled.
Colossians 2:13-14
13 When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions,
14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.**Nothing can separate the justified (Rom 8:30) from the love of God in Christ (Rom 8:38-39).
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Tonks40
Guest
Oh really??
Was Paul talking out of two sides of his mouth or what??? What does this say about the doctrine of assurance of salvation?
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Reformed
Guest
Are you sure you are not a Mormon disguist as a Roman Catholic. I think you have a misunderstanding of what Sola Scriptura means. You’re repeat point on the Trinity shows that you don’t understand the issues. I believe in the hypo-static union of Christ, but you won’t find those exact words in the Bible too.
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Reformed
Guest
Paul is making a distinction between Jews and Gentiles as a group of people. I think you miss the point because the Roman Catholic Church does not acknowledge that there is an invisble church and a visible church. Please try to follow that there is a remnant chosen by grace within the physical jews.
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Reformed
Guest
Here’s a link for you to understand what Christians mean by sola scriptura.
monergism.com/directory/search.php?action=search_links_simple&search_kind=and&phrase=sola+scriptura&B1=Go
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Pixie_Dust
Guest
Quite sure. You are misunderstanding the purpose for my question.
Sola = Only
Scriptura = Bible
For some reason, even those who claim to ONLY use the Bible as their “sole rule of faith” also accept Truths that are outside of Scripture, which means that it isn’t ONLY in the Bible that Truth about Christ is found. You actually adhere to Catholic Tradition, from which you have the canon of Scripture. the word Trinity, the hypo-static union, and worship on Sunday, to name a few.
You’re the one that claimed “Trinity” was in the Bible.
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cfrancis
Guest
Let’s see…reading through Paul’s words you posted again…nope, nothing about sin, but plenty about the Law, which was surely nailed to the cross.
Now you will have me read “sin” every time I read “the Law”?
That’s a very interesting interpretation of Paul’s clear words.
Nope, nothing you posted here contradicts Paul’s clear teaching that a Christian who sins mortally will be cut-off (see Rom 11 above).
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cfrancis
Guest
Wow, it must be difficult for you to see Paul’s words so clearly contradict your beliefs, which is why you cannot cite them in your defense, only responding with your despairing words above.
You must pray that the Holy Spirit will remove your lenses and allow you to see clearly what Paul has so clearly written.
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Tonks40
Guest
Reformed:
So what about sin? What does Paul say about sin? I see you didn’t address my post #437 regarding Hebrews 10:26-27. It does address sin in there, I believe.
I’m very curious as to what you think about that verse.
Thanks for the consideration.
So what about sin? What does Paul say about sin? I see you didn’t address my post #437 regarding Hebrews 10:26-27. It does address sin in there, I believe.
I’m very curious as to what you think about that verse.
Thanks for the consideration.
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Reformed
Guest
I think this seems to be a common theme. When we only take a verse or two to come up with a preconceived position, you will miss the truth. We need what God reveals in all of Scripture on a topic or doctrine. The biggest problem with Roman Catholic theology is the unbiblical understanding of justification… which is the heart of the gospel. Here is Hebrews 10:Reformed:
So what about sin? What does Paul say about sin? I see you didn’t address my post #437 regarding Hebrews 10:26-27. It does address sin in there, I believe.
I’m very curious as to what you think about that verse.
Thanks for the consideration.
Hebrews 10
Christ’s Sacrifice Once for All
10:1 For since the law has but a shadow of the good things to come instead of the true form of these realities, it can never, by the same sacrifices that are continually offered every year, make perfect those who draw near. 2 Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, since the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have any consciousness of sins? 3 But in these sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. 4 For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.
5 Consequently, when Christ [1] came into the world, he said,
“Sacrifices and offerings you have not desired,
but a body have you prepared for me;
6 in burnt offerings and sin offerings
you have taken no pleasure.
7 Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come to do your will, O God,
as it is written of me in the scroll of the book.’”
8 When he said above, “You have neither desired nor taken pleasure in sacrifices and offerings and burnt offerings and sin offerings” (these are offered according to the law), 9 then he added, “Behold, I have come to do your will.” He does away with the first in order to establish the second. 10 And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 And every priest stands daily at his service, offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But when Christ [2] had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, 13 waiting from that time until his enemies should be made a footstool for his feet. 14 For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.
15 And the Holy Spirit also bears witness to us; for after saying,
16 “This is the covenant that I will make with them
after those days, declares the Lord:
I will put my laws on their hearts,
and write them on their minds,”
17 then he adds,
“I will remember their sins and their lawless deeds no more.”
18 Where there is forgiveness of these, there is no longer any offering for sin.
The Full Assurance of Faith
19 Therefore, brothers, [3] since we have confidence to enter the holy places by the blood of Jesus, 20 by the new and living way that he opened for us through the curtain, that is, through his flesh, 21 and since we have a great priest over the house of God, 22 let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, with our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. 23 Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for he who promised is faithful. 24 And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works, 25 not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near.
26 For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. 29 How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has spurned the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, “Vengeance is mine; I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
32 But recall the former days when, after you were enlightened, you endured a hard struggle with sufferings, 33 sometimes being publicly exposed to reproach and affliction, and sometimes being partners with those so treated. 34 For you had compassion on those in prison, and you joyfully accepted the plundering of your property, since you knew that you yourselves had a better possession and an abiding one. 35 Therefore do not throw away your confidence, which has a great reward. 36 For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God you may receive what is promised. 37 For,
“Yet a little while,
and the coming one will come and will not delay;
38 but my righteous one shall live by faith,
and if he shrinks back,
my soul has no pleasure in him.”
39 But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who have faith and preserve their souls.
Can you see the two verses in another light now?
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Reformed
Guest
You guys are all over the place. Paul writes very systematically and in order. Let’s go back to the OP. What is the gospel of God’s grace according to the Apostle Paul? Let’s say I am an unbeliever and fear the judgement of God. I ask you the question of “what must I do to be saved”
You respond with the good news (gospel) of God with…?
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Reformed
Guest
We are starting to drift all over the place and away from the OP. Please share or proclaim the gospel of God’s grace to me. What must I do to be saved?Quite sure. You are misunderstanding the purpose for my question.
Sola = Only
Scriptura = Bible
For some reason, even those who claim to ONLY use the Bible as their “sole rule of faith” also accept Truths that are outside of Scripture, which means that it isn’t ONLY in the Bible that Truth about Christ is found. You actually adhere to Catholic Tradition, from which you have the canon of Scripture. the word Trinity, the hypo-static union, and worship on Sunday, to name a few.
You’re the one that claimed “Trinity” was in the Bible.
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Reformed
Guest
Please consider Romans 11 in context of Romans 9, 10, and 11. God did not reject all Israelites. Are you trying to say that God will cut off all Gentiles?
Galatians 4
Sons and Heirs
4:1 I mean that the heir, as long as he is a child, is no different from a slave, [1] though he is the owner of everything, 2 but he is under guardians and managers until the date set by his father. 3 In the same way we also, when we were children, were enslaved to the elementary principles [2] of the world. 4 But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law, 5 to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons. 6 And because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!” 7 So you are no longer a slave, but a son, and if a son, then an heir through God.
Romans 8
Life in the Spirit
8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. [1] 2 For the law of the Spirit of life has set you [2] free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. 3 For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, [3] he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. 6 For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. 7 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God’s law; indeed, it cannot. 8 Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him. 10 But if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you.
11 Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called “the uncircumcision” by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands— 12 remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility 15 by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, 16 and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility. 17 And he came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near. 18 For through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. 19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, [3] but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. 22 In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by [4] the Spirit. - Eph 2
Justified by Faith
15 We ourselves are Jews by birth and not Gentile sinners; 16 yet we know that a person is not justified [1] by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.
17 But if, in our endeavor to be justified in Christ, we too were found to be sinners, is Christ then a servant of sin? Certainly not! 18 For if I rebuild what I tore down, I prove myself to be a transgressor. 19 For through the law I died to the law, so that I might live to God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. 21 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness [2] were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose. - Gal 2
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sandusky
Guest
No kidding.
You’re out-of-context-cherry-picking.
First of all, the immediate context begins in v19, so read that lead-in.
Also, the statement in v26 is both conditional and rhetorical, “If we go on sinning…,” the writer includes himself and other justified believers, but in v39, he excludes himself and justified believers from that category, “ but we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul.
Context is so important.
The context of the passage has to do with the desire of some to leave the assembly, and return to the Jewish system—anyone who would desire to do that doesn’t have a Spirit-given faith, with a Spirit-given understanding that the old system cannot save, but only Christ.
Those in v27, of whom it is said “fire will consume them” are called hupenantios—adversaries, or more accurately, opposers, and to what are they opposed? They are opposed to the Gospel and to Christ.
A justified person is not opposed to Christ, but understands that it’s only Christ who can save Him.
The real difficulty, IMO, is that Catholics do not understand regeneration, and all that it includes, such as, the promise that they are sealed with a guarantee of final redemption by the indwelling Spirit, and more.
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sandusky
Guest
You need to read again what I’ve posted. What was nailed to the Cross was the certificate of debt—the debt owed because of sin—it’s that which was taken out of the way and nailed to the cross, and that is with respect to all transgressions which were forgiven the believer individually.
More succinctly with respect to the sin issue, the believer sins, and the believer is a created thing (cf Rom 9:20), and no created thing can separate the believer from the love of God in Christ—not even the believer, or his actions.
You’d do well to understand the way of God’s forgiveness, and the breadth of regeneration.
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cfrancis
Guest
Now this is progress! You’ve come to see that you cannot isolate select verses from the rest of Scripture! Excellent! NOw you will be able to see the fullness of Paul’s message, which coincides with Christ’s, which coincides with Catholic teaching! This is truly a breakthrough! Good job, Reformed!
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cfrancis
Guest
I understand you don’t actually read the posts revealing Paul’s teaching contradicts yours, but if you do go back and read, you’ll notice I posted this:
Paul was not directly addressing all Gentiles in his letter to the Romans. Now would be a good time to go back and actually read all our posts!
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cfrancis
Guest
You’d do well to stop reading into Paul’s words, or rather, cutting out that which you do not like! Paul is consistent from Rom 1 to Rom 16: sin has the power to sever our relationship with God. That is quite a stretch to interpret “created things” in Rom 8 with sin!
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