I am outraged!!!

[watcher]

JKirkLVNV:

Well, Gottle could actually be anything,

WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT???
I was replying to puzzleannie’s post.
Can’t you tell that?
LOOK AGAIN!!! Please look again. Do you see???
OK, now that you have seen your error I’ll deal with the rest of your post.

Perhaps, with a grand total of 6 posts under your belt, you would be better advised to watch your tone. Or are you perhaps someone familiar, who was banned under another name, now sneaking back to be as rude as ever you were before? Hmmmm.

So puzzleannie with over 1000 posts can be rude, but I with only 6 cannot? OK, whatever you say
And as for me being someone familiar…well how do you go about proving that?

 

[JKirkLVNV]

watcher:

WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT???
I was replying to puzzleannie’s post.
Can’t you tell that?
LOOK AGAIN!!! Please look again. Do you see???
OK, now that you have seen your error I’ll deal with the rest of your post.

So puzzleannie with over 1000 posts can be rude, but I with only 6 cannot? OK, whatever you say
And as for me being someone familiar…well how do you go about proving that?

I can’t, not at all. I apologize. Now, as for what you posted to ANNIE: she was quite right. Being a homosexual, suffering from SSA, is NOT a sin, as it is defined by the Catechism. Homosexual activity, ACTIVITY, is a sin. Genital expression of homosexual attraction is the sin. Annie took exception to your self-righteous tone, as did I. I most sincerely and humbly apologize for mistaking the following as an attack on Gottle:
***Hmmm which catechism are you using?
Seems that your sarcasm can’t cover your ignorance.
I take it you’re not catholic * **(since it was directed at ANNIE, well, that’s ok!!! )

---

Ignorance? She displayed the correct understanding of the Catechism. Not Catholic? I think it would be ignorant to assume as such. You’re tone is self-righteous. You know it.

 

[watcher]

JKirkLVNV:

You’re tone is self-righteous. You know it.

Yeah I guess your right.
My tone is also impatient, arrogant, intolerant, opinionated…just add more if you want to. Or better yet - don’t. I’m sure you’ve more important things to do than squabble with the likes of me (no, I’m not being sarcastic).
So I will apologise to you, and annie.
I will crawl back under the rock from which I came from and wither and die (see I’m also self-pitying).
I AM PATHETIC.
Please ban me. Really.

I need help…but I don’t think God wants to know. Is that predestination?

 

[JKirkLVNV]

There are all sorts of outrages in the Church. I’m not dissing the anger caused by them. I just believe, perhaps naively, that we must ALWAYS be humble and charitable. More people will be won to Heaven by our Charity than by anger, no matter how righteous, no matter how justified. I wasn’t charitable with you, so here, now, I do most sincerely ask your forgiveness.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

watcher:

Is that predestination?

And that’s another thread entirely!

 

[watcher]

JKirkLVNV:

There are all sorts of outrages in the Church. I’m not dissing the anger caused by them. I just believe, perhaps naively, that we must ALWAYS be humble and charitable. More people will be won to Heaven by our Charity than by anger, no matter how righteous, no matter how justified. I wasn’t charitable with you, so here, now, I do most sincerely ask your forgiveness.

I’m not too sure if this was a reply to one of my posts. If it wasn’t, then please ignore what follows.
It’s difficult for me to be charitable - I’ve got too much anger. I guess I’ll NEVER be a Christian, though maybe I shoud try something like praying and see what happens (my impatience will probably be my downfall again - I am in the first class of failed seeds in the sower parable).
Anyway, I won’t ramble.
If you were asking me for forgiveness then I give it to you (though I don’t think you did anything to ask for it).
Peace:thumbsup:

 

[Brendan]

puzzleannie:

how fortunate you are to have inside knowledge of who is on the fast track to hell.

Anne,

The Church has made is very clear as to what constitutes ‘the fast track to Hell’.

It is the engagement in mortal sin. Homosexual acts are intrinscally evil and engaging in them is mortal sin - the fast track to Hell.

It is entirely true that we cannot say what their final state will be, they might choose the accept the Grace God grants to them to live chaste lives, for example. many saints lived such lives and reformed.

But it is entirely correct to point out to a sinner that they are, in fact, on the fast track to Hell. In fact it is an act of Love and Mercy to do so.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

watcher:

I’m not too sure if this was a reply to one of my posts. If it wasn’t, then please ignore what follows.
It’s difficult for me to be charitable - I’ve got too much anger. I guess I’ll NEVER be a Christian, though maybe I shoud try something like praying and see what happens (my impatience will probably be my downfall again - I am in the first class of failed seeds in the sower parable).
Anyway, I won’t ramble.
If you were asking me for forgiveness then I give it to you (though I don’t think you did anything to ask for it).
Peace:thumbsup:

I, too, have found anger to be my besetting sin. I struggle with it a great deal. That doesn’t mean we aren’t Christians, you and I. It just means we have to pick ourselves up and stumble after Him up the road to Calvary, our crosses in tow. I would say the same for our homosexual brothers and sisters. We cannot sanction sin. That would be to listen to the Father of Lies. We can, however, acknowledge with Saint Paul that “all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.” That alone should make us patient and humble and hopefully engender the kind of charity in us that will pull them to Him, to Christ Crucified. God bless you. Christ hold you close in His Most Sacred Heart.

 

[WhiteDove]

Everyone has their achillies heel, right?

I know Gottle from another board. He’s a dear fellow, very wonderful. Hi Gottle!

Anyways, this thread is unusual, kind of full of emotional ups and down. Sort of PMSy type of hysteria then crying. And quite human. Don’t you love it, the internet?

 

[JKirkLVNV]

WhiteDove:

Everyone has their achillies heel, right?

I know Gottle from another board. He’s a dear fellow, very wonderful. Hi Gottle!

Anyways, this thread is unusual, kind of full of emotional ups and down. Sort of PMSy type of hysteria then crying. And quite human. Don’t you love it, the internet?

 

[e-catholic]

Traditional Ang:

E-Catholic:

"
If you aren’t confused enough already, the Traditional Anglican Communion, whose members are absolutely horrified at the direction taken by the Anglican Communion over the past 28 years, and at the lack of faith of much of the clergy, has been negotiating with Rome to enter AS A GROUP.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=28244

We would definitely NOT be questioning the Holy Father on issues such as Abortion, Euthanasia, Women in the Priesthood, Gay Marraige, or HIS AUTHORITY!

Please pray that negotiations, which are alway delicate, are successful. I believe it would benefit both bodies.

In Him, Michael

Michael,
That is great. I will pray that the negotiations go well. I hope to be able to welcome you and everyone in your church soon.

 

[Exporter]

Traditional Ang http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/statusicon_cad/user_offline.gif vbmenu_register(“postmenu_368902”, true);
Regular Member

Read Post # 12, I think I agree with it.

 

[dancus]

I CANNOT BELIEVE THIS! This discussion is a prime example of swallowing a camel and choking on a gnat. Your all ignoring the problem in the Church today, I don’t think I have to spell it out. Haveing a long discussion of something happening in England in one Church. I lost track of the church or denomination, at best is silly. This is not meant to put anyone down, I don’t doubt you all mean well. However I still believe you a swallowing a camel and choking on a gnat. Like that old Arabian quote so much I just couldn’t resist using it twice. Bye for now dancus

 

[JKirkLVNV]

A) I don’t think we’re straining the gnat only to swallow a camel. We’re distinguishing between sin (in this case an act) and condition or orientation, something the Catechism does.

B) Isn’t this an Anglican Church under question? We should grieve for and with our Anglican brothers and sisters, but really, at this point, is anyone surprised that these things keep cropping up in a community that takes pride in being so inclusive?

 

[Werner]

So there is a mass for gay Catholics, and instead of being happy about everybody who wants to come to meet God at a mass some here are “outraged”

Why does that remind me of the strory about the pharisee in the temple who thanked God that he is righteous and not a sinner like the tax collector who stood in the back of the temple praying silently “God have mercy with me sinner”

I get the impression some of you should re-read this story, and what Jesus says about the joy that is in heaven about everybody who comes home to God.

Just think about it before you get “outraged” about somebody attending a mass…

Werner

 

[Exporter]

Werner,

Er, Ah, it was not someone attending Mass. This is not about an individual.

As I read it, the Mass was organized for and attended by homosaxuals and their live-ins. It actually was a Mass specifically for practicing homosexuals.

If that is acceptable to you, how do you feel about an organized Mass specifically for Abortionists.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

This is an Anglican parish. I looked it up (55 Dean Street) by going to the site of the Anglican Diocese of London. It isn’t Roman Catholic. High Church Anglicans use the term “mass” for their communion services.

 

[puzzleannie]

Brendan:

Anne,

The Church has made is very clear as to what constitutes ‘the fast track to Hell’.

It is the engagement in mortal sin. Homosexual acts are intrinscally evil and engaging in them is mortal sin - the fast track to Hell.

It is entirely true that we cannot say what their final state will be, they might choose the accept the Grace God grants to them to live chaste lives, for example. many saints lived such lives and reformed.

But it is entirely correct to point out to a sinner that they are, in fact, on the fast track to Hell. In fact it is an act of Love and Mercy to do so.

unless those attending this Mass were engaging in sinful actions at the time, you have no way of knowing that they are in fact sinner. there is not enough information in the story you quoted to judge the spiritual condition of anyone attending that Mass. A similar situation occured in Cleveland a few years ago, when our bishop invited a group of Catholic homosexuals from various advocacy groups, AIDS support groups, and also groups that help people overcome SSA. An optional penitential service preceded Mass, and the sermon was about the need for continuing conversion for all. Can you state with utter certainty that all those attending Mass in the story you quote were in an objective state of mortal sin at the time? You know without a doubt that they had a) engaged in sinful actions and b) had not confessed and c) received the Eucharist? I would like to know how you come to such intimate knowledge of matters that belong in the confessional.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

veryconfused:

I did a search of the catechism and found this
scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2357.htm
Theres no mention of sin here.
So what is the difference between ‘grave depravity’, ‘intrinsically disordered’, and sin?
And please try to be civil

== LOL- well said: the vital word was “homosexual **practices” - “**homosexuality” might have been a better search-word.

Puzzleannie wins. Being homosexual is not sinful. I think some people are too eager to denounce others - so they miss these small but important details. ==

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

JKirkLVNV:

Well, Gottle could actually be anything, but all of the posts I’ve read indicate that he or she is quite orthodox. Not neccesarily conservative, but orthodox (the two aren’t synonymous, you know). He was being satirical and a bit sarcastic (naughty Gottle, lacking in chairity). I think what bothers you is that Gottle doesn’t come across as astonishingly self-righteous as you do. He wasn’t defending homosexual practice, he was objecting back-handedly to your tone. He was also citing the Catechism, which states that gays are to be rec. with respect and (you might want to sit down for this) love…Christian love. I’m not endorsing the gay lifestyle or homosexual practice either. It is clearly against the natural law, Holy Writ, Tradition, etc. We must obviously uphold the truth. The Truth, however, can be upheld in Charity. Charity, in fact, may well be all that pulls some people to the Truth. Perhaps, with a grand total of 6 posts under your belt, you would be better advised to watch your tone. Or are you perhaps someone familiar, who was banned under another name, now sneaking back to be as rude as ever you were before? Hmmmm.

== JKirk,

Thanks for the nice comments, but I can’t take the credit for quoting the CCC - I’m sure that was somebody else. The credit belongs to them All I did was echo the “unacceptable”, “wimpy” paragraph that you also mentioned. It’s one that tends to be overlooked, IMO.

Was I uncharitable ? I was pretty miffed, for sure TY for the completely unaggressive tone.

White Dove - TY for the character reference ==