I am planning on attending Mass at an SSPX chapel with a conservative friend

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catholicworker1922

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Some of my doubts were assuaged recently.
  1. The SSPX is not in schism per Pope Benedict (he used the term “raises the danger of schism” to refer to the consecrations, but this directly indicates that despite that danger, schism was not achieved).
  2. The SSPX is not in schism per Catholic Answers main page.
  3. The PCED stated that their Masses fulfill Sunday obligations and that a donation would be warranted in such cases.
  4. Pope Francis granted his personal jurisdiction for their confessions and, with the permission of the bishop, for marriages.
I understand that there are many people in the Church who do not like them (I am one of them), but the Holy Fathers and the PCED/CDF have made clear that the SSPX is Catholic even if they may not necessarily encourage attendance. It is a matter of personal discretion and maintenance of a non schismatic attitude. Anything less lenient toward them is a matter of personal judgment, which is Protestant. Their lack of liceity and canonical irregularity is clearly not an impediment to their being Catholic.

So I will attend with my conservative friend. We have friendly arguments all the time, but I do care for him. My question for this thread is: What should I look out for that would be scandalous or which would be something to discuss with him later? What are some concerns I might share with him after Mass? I believe this a good chance to open dialogue and change attitudes.
 
My main problem with the SSPX is that they are irregular and illicit. I just don’t see any good reason to attend an illicit mass at an irregular chapel when I have an abundance of options that are both regular and licit. :woman_shrugging:t4:

Not sure it’s worth arguing with your friend over. That’s your choice I suppose. The Holy Father is more interested in bringing the SSPX back into regularity than he is in heaping up restrictions on them and placing them outside the communion of the Church.
 
“Conservative” is not a proper term, IMO. . . . Rather . . . something else that indicates their continued unwillingness to humble themselves.

I think it is a bad idea. If your friendship stands on you agreeing with him, or tilting in the direction of his windmills, then it is not much of a friendship.
 
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mrsdizzyd said:
I just don’t see any good reason to attend an illicit mass at an irregular chapel when I have an abundance of options that are both regular and licit
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One reason is that, based on the history of the EF post Vat 2, the prevalence of licit EF would not exist were it not for SSPX and Abp. Lefebvre. I’m not saying that makes it right in itself, but it’s almost hypocritical to enjoy the fruits of their labor while looking down on them. They have worked hard for the EF and further continue to engage with Rome to patch things up.
 
catholicworker1922 said:
One reason is that, based on the history of the EF post Vat 2, the prevalence of licit EF would not exist were it not for SSPX and Abp. Lefebvre.
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There is no way to substantiate that claim. If you want to believe that it is up to you.
 
mrsdizzyd said:
There is no way to substantiate that claim. If you want to believe that it is up to you.
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It may be impossible to definitely prove, as is any historical fact, but the balance of evidence to me seems clear. I am open to other interpretations and do not have any personal stake in it. This is based on conversations with my friend and personal research and reading on the topic.
 
Just go to the Mass with your friend. Continue going every week until you can follow along in the missal.

By then, you will be able to determine which form of the Mass nurtures your soul.

That is all that is really important in my opinion.
 
mrsdizzyd said:
My main problem with the SSPX is that they are irregular and illicit. I just don’t see any good reason to attend an illicit mass at an irregular chapel when I have an abundance of options that are both regular and licit. :woman_shrugging:t4:
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^^This. There are plenty of other options for traditional Masses, including FSSP, ICKSP etc without having to go seek out groups in irregular status . . . with the Church.

People make their own choices I guess, but I’m not a fan of the SSPX at all. I also think that a real “friend” wouldn’t lead people in this direction.
 
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CradleRC58 said:
By then, you will be able to determine which form of the Mass nurtures your soul.

That is all that is really important in my opinion.
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By that reasoning, if he thinks his soul is best “nurtured” by going to a Protestant church then he should just go there.
Loyalty to God’s one holy Catholic and Apostolic church is not a matter to be taken lightly based on one’s personal “feels”.
 
catholicworker1922 said:
One reason is that, based on the history of the EF post Vat 2, the prevalence of licit EF would not exist were it not for SSPX and Abp. Lefebvre
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I love the EF however the Holiness of The Church does not depend on the existence of the EF no matter how much more reverent it is then the Novus Ordo. The end never justifies the means.
 
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Tis_Bearself said:
By that reasoning, if he thinks his soul is best “nurtured” by going to a Protestant church then he should just go there.
Loyalty to God’s one holy Catholic and Apostolic church is not a matter to be taken lightly based on one’s personal “feels”.
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Are you stating that Protestants like the Latin Mass or that the EF is not an approved rite? Otherwise your point seems tenuous at best.
 
LaughingBoy1503 said:
I love the EF however the Holiness of The Church does not depend on the existence of the EF no matter how much more reverent it is then the Novus Ordo.
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I never claimed any of that. I simply stated that the SSPX played an obviously important role of the rite continuing to exist. One, by the way, that was not schismatic in any way, as determined by the Pope x2. Whatever your personal judgment of those acts, it does not change the fact that the Vatican and Holy Father are OK with attendance. Anything further is private judgment, and the demand that anyone adhere to that judgment is then Protestant.
 
Getting a bit defensive… And Lefebres’ move was very protestant like and unnecessary. Ill continue to criticize the sspx until i see them get off their high horses and show humility and submission

They performed illicit masses and confession and weddings fir a long time. We’re their absolution even valid? I heard not. That is putting people in danger. No, I won’t give a thumbs up to this group. Ill go to The TLM elswhere
 
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I doubt anyone here is going to leave the Church because of my opinion lol

Nice spin though 👍
 
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So, you don’t share Pope Francis’ and Pope Benedict’s current view of the SSPX ?
 
Tolle_Lege said:
The only downside of the SSPX is that there aren’t enough chapels. Good decision on attending; your NO Mass will feel like a grade school pantomime of liturgy by comparison.
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This seems a rather mean-spirited thing to say considering that Holy Mother Church Herself approves of the NO Mass, and our last three popes have offered Mass in the Ordinary Form all over the world.

Did you learn this kind of thing–insulting Holy Mother Church–in the SSPX?? If so, I am not impressed with SSPX.
 
catholicworker1922 said:
Are you stating that Protestants like the Latin Mass or that the EF is not an approved rite? Otherwise your point seems tenuous at best.
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I’ve stated my point above - that there are plenty of Latin Mass options available via groups such as FSSP whose relationship with the Church is not controversial or questionable in any way.

I don’t think it needs further elaboration.
 
LaughingBoy1503 said:
Getting a bit defensive…
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In truth I am not. I felt that you mischaracterized what I said. I attend the OF exclusively. I am going to this Mass with my friend because I feel that his perspective is valid. I question your purpose in using me as a sounding board for your issues with the SSPX. The lack of charity, insistence on your private judgment, and questioning whether others are truly Catholic are exactly why I am now open to the SSPX.
 
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