I Believe in One God

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I was once affiliated with a Messianic Congregation whose Pastor and wife are Jewish Christians. This is many years after my scriptural understanding of which we have been discussing, (they understood the Trinity as the mainstream).
See, I do get around. Thanks for answering my question mercytruth.
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mercytruth:
The study of the early church fathers came after my departure from this congregation, and before my return to the Catholic Church. I returned to the Catholic Church because I have a dear former Lutheran friend who also was a Messianic congregant, and we prayed for some specific apologies from Pope John Paul II, and they came about shortly thereafter. (Maybe were just in tune to what G-d was going to do through this blessed Pope beforehand). Also, I realized from the early church fathers, that the Holy Eucharist is foundational to the Christian faith.
Amen, I’m with you on those things.
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mercytruth:
Actually, I use G-d to differentiate between G-d the Father, and the only-begotten God, that is, the Word who is God. Eventhough, both the G-d the Father, and His only-begotten Son are called by the sacred name of YWYH.

God’s peace.
Yes, the actual Substance ( which is one ) is God…
…The Substance or ‘Nature’ is co-equally possessed by the Three Persons.
…It still sounds as if you are describing ‘three God’s’ to me.

As you said - we call the Father or 1st Person of the Trinity Father because He is un-begotten…
…And we call the 2nd Person of the Trinity ‘Son’ because He is “Eternally be-gotten” by the Father.
…God The Holy Spirit ( 3rd Person ) proceeds from The Father & the Son.

There was never a time the Father wasn’t the Father…
…There was never a time when the Son wasn’t the Son.
…And there was never a time when the Holy Spirit wasn’t proceeded from the Father & the Son.

I think what has set people off with your understanding is that it appears as if you are claiming…
…That because you are drawn toward certain sins and find yourself resisting your own desire for the sin.
…You somehow think that Jesus must have experienced the same thing because you read He was tempted like you.

Do I have that right?
 
Pythons,

Yes and no.

Regarding the Son of G-d, all I can do is explain that the G-d the Father, and the
Son of G-d are distinct from each other, as the holy scriptures and several of the early church fathers explained… distinct yet united. Their union is a mystery of oneness, a oneness that is a mystery of union. The fullness of the Godhead, (that is, G-d the Father) dwells in the Son of G-d bodily. There are certain scriptures that are key to understanding this dichotomy, but that is not for me to explain, or attempt to explain.

As for temptation to sin, as a redeemed sinner I think my temptation to sin was greater than that of my Savior, our Lord Jesus Christ.** I myself, can not resist **the desire for certain sins except by the overcoming grace of our Lord Jesus Christ who walked this well travelled road before me.

God’s peace.
 
Pythons,

Yes and no.

Regarding the Son of G-d, all I can do is explain that the G-d the Father, and the
Son of G-d are distinct from each other, as the holy scriptures and several of the early church fathers explained… distinct yet united. Their union is a mystery of oneness, a oneness that is a mystery of union. The fullness of the Godhead, (that is, G-d the Father) dwells in the Son of G-d bodily. There are certain scriptures that are key to understanding this dichotomy, but that is not for me to explain, or attempt to explain.

As for temptation to sin, as a redeemed sinner I think my temptation to sin was greater than that of my Savior, our Lord Jesus Christ.** I myself, can not resist **the desire for certain sins except by the overcoming grace of our Lord Jesus Christ who walked this well travelled road before me.
No Catholic educated in the faith would say the Three Persons are not distinct…
…Their “unity” is in Substance or Nature which is the one God.
…Within God is a Trinity of specific, distinct Persons.
…When was it you left the Catholic Faith for the MJ faith, what age were you?

It was different because the Devil will always find something in you that you WILL respond to…
…As he does me and everyone else currently on the planet.
 
See, I do get around. Thanks for answering my question mercytruth.

Amen, I’m with you on those things.

Yes, the actual Substance ( which is one ) is God…
…The Substance or ‘Nature’ is co-equally possessed by the Three Persons.
…It still sounds as if you are describing ‘three God’s’ to me.

As you said - we call the Father or 1st Person of the Trinity Father because He is un-begotten…
…And we call the 2nd Person of the Trinity ‘Son’ because He is “Eternally be-gotten” by the Father.
…God The Holy Spirit ( 3rd Person ) proceeds from The Father & the Son.

There was never a time the Father wasn’t the Father…
…There was never a time when the Son wasn’t the Son.
…And there was never a time when the Holy Spirit wasn’t proceeded from the Father & the Son.

I think what has set people off with your understanding is that it appears as if you are claiming…
…That because you are drawn toward certain sins and find yourself resisting your own desire for the sin.
…You somehow think that Jesus must have experienced the same thing because you read He was tempted like you.

Do I have that right?
I think it is important to revisit your first inquiry. John 17:20-26 is one of the most profound portions of the NT. It is the actual prayer of the only-begotten Son of G-d to his G-d and Father. It is a prayer which delineates the distinction between the Son of G-d and G-d the Father.

It is a prayer of acknowlegement to G-d his Father that he was sent by the Father into the world, and that now he, the Son of G-d is sending his disciples into the world.

It is a prayer of acknowlegement to G-d his Father that he, the Son of G-d is sanctifying himself in order that his disciples may also be sanctified in truth.

It is a prayer of intercession to G-d his Father not only for his disciples to be sanctified, but also for those of the future who through the word of his disciples will come to believe in the Son of G-d.

It is a prayer of intercession to G-d his Father that all disciples of the Son of G-d may be one, even as the Father is one with his Son, and the Son is one with the Father.

It is a prayer of intercession to G-d his Father that all disciples would be one in the Father and in the Son, in order for the world to believe that G-d the Father sent his only-begotten Son into the world.

It is a prayer of acknowlegement and thanksgiving to G-d the Father of the glory that the Father gave to his only-begotten Son, and now he, the Son is giving that glory to his disciples, in order that they may be one, even as G-d the Father and the only-begotten Son are one in this glory.

It is a prayer of intercession to G-d his Father that as he, the Son is one with his disciples and they are one in him, that his disciples may be perfected in this oneness, and that the world may know that G-d the Father sent his only-begotten Son into the world, and that the Son has loved them, even as his Father has loved His Son.

It is a future prayer of intercession and thanksgiving to G-d his Father, that where he, the Son is, that they whom the Father has given to the Son may be with him, in order that they might see the glory of the Son which G-d the Father has given to His Son, because G-d the Father has loved His only-begotten Son before the creation of the world.

It is a prayer of acknowlegement and thanksgiving to G-d his Father, that the world has not known the Father, but he, the Son has known the Father, and that his disciples know that the Father has sent his Son into the world.

Finally, the only-begotten Son of G-d promises his Father that as the Son of G-d he will continue to make known to his disciples the name of G-d his Father, that the love wherein G-d the Father has loved he, the Son may be in his disciples, and also as the Son in them.
 
I think it is important to revisit your first inquiry. John 17:20-26 is one of the most profound portions of the NT. It is the actual prayer of the only-begotten Son of G-d to his G-d and Father. It is a prayer which delineates the distinction between the Son of G-d and G-d the Father.

It is a prayer of acknowlegement to G-d his Father that he was sent by the Father into the world, and that now he, the Son of G-d is sending his disciples into the world.

It is a prayer of acknowlegement to G-d his Father that he, the Son of G-d is sanctifying himself in order that his disciples may also be sanctified in truth.

It is a prayer of intercession to G-d his Father not only for his disciples to be sanctified, but also for those of the future who through the word of his disciples will come to believe in the Son of G-d.

It is a prayer of intercession to G-d his Father that all disciples of the Son of G-d may be one, even as the Father is one with his Son, and the Son is one with the Father.

It is a prayer of intercession to G-d his Father that all disciples would be one in the Father and in the Son, in order for the world to believe that G-d the Father sent his only-begotten Son into the world.

It is a prayer of acknowlegement and thanksgiving to G-d the Father of the glory that the Father gave to his only-begotten Son, and now he, the Son is giving that glory to his disciples, in order that they may be one, even as G-d the Father and the only-begotten Son are one in this glory.

It is a prayer of intercession to G-d his Father that as he, the Son is one with his disciples and they are one in him, that his disciples may be perfected in this oneness, and that the world may know that G-d the Father sent his only-begotten Son into the world, and that the Son has loved them, even as his Father has loved His Son.

It is a future prayer of intercession and thanksgiving to G-d his Father, that where he, the Son is, that they whom the Father has given to the Son may be with him, in order that they might see the glory of the Son which G-d the Father has given to His Son, because G-d the Father has loved His only-begotten Son before the creation of the world.

It is a prayer of acknowlegement and thanksgiving to G-d his Father, that the world has not known the Father, but he, the Son has known the Father, and that his disciples know that the Father has sent his Son into the world.

Finally, the only-begotten Son of G-d promises his Father that as the Son of G-d he will continue to make known to his disciples the name of G-d his Father, that the love wherein G-d the Father has loved he, the Son may be in his disciples, and also as the Son in them.
You realize that Christ “always” had that exact mind in Himself, right?
…That’s what we mean by Eternal Generation - Christ was always, as in Eternally, The Son of God.
…And He had the same mind in Eternity prior to the creation of this world & will have the same mind.
…For Eternity after this world as we know it is long gone.

What you are suggesting is what the Catechism and Creeds come right out and call heresy…
…You do realize this, right?
 
You realize that Christ “always” had that exact mind in Himself, right?
…That’s what we mean by Eternal Generation - Christ was always, as in Eternally, The Son of God.
…And He had the same mind in Eternity prior to the creation of this world & will have the same mind.
…For Eternity after this world as we know it is long gone.

What you are suggesting is what the Catechism and Creeds come right out and call heresy…
…You do realize this, right?
What I am suggesting that whatever unity was in the primitive church was destroyed by the wrangling between the West and East, and that wrangling began with a creed that hardly anyone can understand. Is this the unity that our Lord Jesus Christ prayed for? Is the unity that the world sees? Is this the unity that perfects the body of Christ?

My brother, we need to repent before Almighty G-d.
 
What I am suggesting that whatever unity was in the primitive church was destroyed by the wrangling between the West and East, and that wrangling began with a creed that hardly anyone can understand. Is this the unity that our Lord Jesus Christ prayed for? Is the unity that the world sees? Is this the unity that perfects the body of Christ?

My brother, we need to repent before Almighty G-d.
Granted that the East has different words they use to describe how Jesus was tempted…
…Do you understand Eastern Orthodoxy to affirm that Christ “wanted to do” the sins He was tempted with.
…So that Christ had to resist His own urge to sin?

I’ve never heard an E.O. even remotely imply that.
 
No, I am not aware of the Eastern Orthodox ever remotely stating such.

There are sins of the physical appetites, there are sins of omission, there are sins of the carnal emotions, there are sins of the attitudes of the heart, there are sins of the words that we speak. Our Lord Jesus Christ never sinned in any of these ways.

I do not see how our Lord Jesus Christ, who is our High Priest, could be our High Priest before our heavenly Father unless he is able to empathize with our weaknesses of the physical appetites, our weaknesses of our carnal emotions, our weaknesses of the attitudes of our hearts, and with our weaknesses in misspeaking. Empathy can only mean that Jesus Christ experienced such weaknesses, yet with regard to our Lord Jesus Christ he never sinned due to the weaknesses of his own humanity, otherwise he was not human.( in addition to being Divine).

It is not necessary for me to repeat what the apostle Paul, Ireneaus, Justin Martyr, Tertullian and Lactantius have written regarding this subject.

God’s peace.
 
I think the word “weakness” is maybe making people uncomfortable. That being said, Jesus did experience what are called blameless passions (hunger, thirst, tiredness, etc.). What the tradition, following the teaching of Maximus the Confessor, makes clear is that Jesus’ experience of the passions did not drive him to sin, because owing to his omniscience, he did not engage in the same deliberative process which we undergo when we are tempted, but was able to reject temptation without deliberation.

On the Nicene Creed, I think one would probably be correct to say that the Eastern Orthodox have a somewhat different understanding of it from the Catholics. Our understanding of the Creed seems to be more influenced by the “Neo-Nicene” understanding of the creed, taught by the Basil the Great, Gregory the Theologian, and Gregory of Nyssa, than the understanding which the Catholics have, which seems only loosely to draw from Neo-Nicene influence. This difference is even highlighted by the Catholic Encyclopedia, which praises Thomas Aquinas for his association of the title God with the divine essence which (in their minds) “[safeguarded] as it did alike the unity of God and the equality of the Persons in a manner which the Greek system could never do”. Of course, the Orthodox are inclined to disagree.
 
If one were to read the entire epitstle to the Hebrews, one will understand (hopefully) of that which is at stake here.

Our Lord Jesus Christ **had to become perfect **through temptation like ours, and through suffering in order to be made our High Priest forever, according to the order of Melchisedek. I will attempt to break down this understanding of the High Priesthood that our Lord Jesus Christ has entered into.

First, the qualifications of a high priest under the law of the Levitical priesthood:

For every high priest taken from among men, is ordained for men in the things that appertain to God, that he may offer up gifts and sacrifices for sins: Who can have compassion on them that are ignorant and that err: because he himself also is compassed with infirmity. And therefore he ought, as for the people, so also for himself, to offer for sins .Neither doth any man take the honour to himself, but he that is called by God, as Aaron was.(Hebrews 5:1-4).

Now here is the description of the High Priesthood of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Having therefore a great high priest that hath passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God: let us hold fast our confession. For we have not a high priest, who can not have compassion on our infirmities: but one tempted in all things like as we are, without sin. Let us go therefore with confidence to the throne of grace: that we may obtain mercy, and find grace in seasonable aid. (Hebrews 4:16-18).

The compassion the Levitical High Priest had for his own people was because he himself struggled with the same 'infirmities, ’ “weaknesses” toward sin, (and in fact did sin), even as the people of Israel sinned.

Therefore, it was necessary for our Lord Jesus Christ to struggle with the same infirmities or weaknesses as us, in order to have compassion on us, all the while, never sinning. (unlike the Levitical high priest).

This struggle with weaknesses toward sin, and with suffering is what perfected our Lord Jesus Christ in order to be made a high priest forever according to the order of Melchisedek: He would not have been made a high priest forever according to the order of Melchisedek unless he had been perfected through temptation and suffering:

For it was indeed fitting that we should have such a high priest, holy, innocent, unstained, separated from sinners, and exalted above the heavens. He has no need, like those high priests, to offer sacrifices daily, first for his own sins and then for those of the people, since he did this once for all when he offered up himself. For the law appoints men in their weakness as high priests, but the word of the oath, which came later than the law, appoints a Son who has been made perfect forever. (Hebrews 7:26-28)

And, In the days of his flesh, Jesus[a] offered up prayers and supplications, with loud cries and tears, to him who was able to save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverence. Although he was a son, he learned obedience through what he suffered. And being made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him, being designated by God a high priest after the order of Melchizedek.
(Hebrews 5:7-10)

The epistle to the Hebrews clearly explains that our Lord Jesus Christ had to be pefected through temptations like our own, and through sufferings in order to become a high priest forever according to the order of Melchisedek.
 
I think the word “weakness” is maybe making people uncomfortable. That being said, Jesus did experience what are called blameless passions (hunger, thirst, tiredness, etc.). What the tradition, following the teaching of Maximus the Confessor, makes clear is that Jesus’ experience of the passions did not drive him to sin, because owing to his omniscience, he did not engage in the same deliberative process which we undergo when we are tempted, but was able to reject temptation without deliberation.
Hunger, thirst, tiredness, like death, are not concupiscence, just the capacity to suffer that happened when Adam destroyed the perfect order of our world with his sin. Mercytruth, on the other hand, is saying that Our Lord had concupiscence, the seven deadly sins/faults/passions of Lust, anger, greed, gluttony, pride, envy, sloth-faults of our fallen state, or failure of positive inclinations (virtues) which inclines us to sin. These are a world of a difference from the “weaknesses” you gave- hunger, tiredness etc.
 
On the Nicene Creed, I think one would probably be correct to say that the Eastern Orthodox have a somewhat different understanding of it from the Catholics. This difference is even highlighted by the Catholic Encyclopedia, which praises Thomas Aquinas for his association of the title God with the divine essence which (in their minds) “[safeguarded] as it did alike the unity of God and the equality of the Persons in a manner which the Greek system could never do”.
The difference existed from the beginning between the Latin and the Greek fathers. St. Thomas’s teaching followed the teaching of the Latin fathers as he himself makes clear in his brilliant Summa Theologica. Example:
Article 1. Whether it belongs to the Father to be the principle?
Objection 1. It would seem that the Father cannot be called the principle of the Son, or of the Holy Ghost. For principle and cause are the same, according to the Philosopher (Metaph. iv). But we do not say that the Father is the cause of the Son. Therefore we must not say that He is the principle of the Son.
Objection 2. Further, a principle is so called in relation to the thing principled. So if the Father is the principle of the Son, it follows that the Son is a person principled, and is therefore created; which appears false.
Objection 3. Further, the word principle is taken from priority. But in God there is no “before” and “after,” as Athanasius says. Therefore in speaking of God we ought not to used the term principle.
On the contrary, Augustine says (De Trin. iv, 20), “The Father is the Principle of the whole Deity.”
I answer that, The word “principle” signifies only that whence another proceeds: since anything whence something proceeds in any way we call a principle; and conversely. As the Father then is the one whence another proceeds, it follows that the Father is a principle.
Reply to Objection 1. The Greeks use the words “cause” and “principle” indifferently, when speaking of God; whereas the Latin Doctors do not use the word “cause,” but only “principle.” The reason is because “principle” is a wider term than “cause”; as “cause” is more common than “element.” For the first term of a thing, as also the first part, is called the principle, but not the cause. Now the wider a term is, the more suitable it is to use as regards God (13, 11), because the more special terms are, the more they determine the mode adapted to the creature. Hence this term “cause” seems to mean diversity of substance, and dependence of one from another; which is not implied in the word “principle.” For in all kinds of causes there is always to be found between the cause and the effect a distance of perfection or of power: whereas we use the term “principle” even in things which have no such difference, but have only a certain order to each other; as when we say that a point is the principle of a line; or also when we say that the first part of a line is the principle of a line.
Reply to Objection 2. It is the custom with the Greeks to say that the Son and the Holy Ghost are principled. This is not, however, the custom with our Doctors; because, although we attribute to the Father something of authority by reason of His being the principle, still we do not attribute any kind of subjection or inferiority to the Son, or to the Holy Ghost, to avoid any occasion of error. In this way, Hilary says (De Trin. ix): “By authority of the Giver, the Father is the greater; nevertheless the Son is not less to Whom oneness of nature is given.”
Reply to Objection 3. Although this word principle, as regards its derivation, seems to be taken from priority, still it does not signify priority, but origin. For what a term signifies, and the reason why it was imposed, are not the same thing, as stated above (Question 13, Article 8).
 
Hunger, thirst, tiredness, like death, are not concupiscence, just the capacity to suffer that happened when Adam destroyed the perfect order of our world with his sin. Mercytruth, on the other hand, is saying that Our Lord had concupiscence, the seven deadly sins/faults/passions of Lust, anger, greed, gluttony, pride, envy, sloth-faults of our fallen state, or failure of positive inclinations (virtues) which inclines us to sin. These are a world of a difference from the “weaknesses” you gave- hunger, tiredness etc.
Our Lord Jesus Christ struggled with the same weaknesses that the Levitical high priest struggled with. The difference being is that the Levitical high priests were not able to overcome their propensities to sin, our Lord Jesus Christ did overcome such temptations.

I think people tend to interpret scripture from the lens of their own pre-conceived belief systems. I have attempted to use the plain understanding of these scriptures along with the teachings of the early church fathers prior to the Nicene Council. If someone can give me clear scriptures with the writings of early church fathers prior to the Nicene Council that explain their understanding they are welcomed to do so.

**For this reason he had to be made like them,[a] fully human in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people. Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted. ** (Hebrews 2:17-18)
 
Our Lord Jesus Christ struggled with the same weaknesses that the Levitical high priest struggled with. The difference being is that the Levitical high priests were not able to overcome their propensities to sin, our Lord Jesus Christ did overcome such temptations.

I think people tend to interpret scripture from the lens of their own pre-conceived belief systems. I have attempted to use the plain understanding of these scriptures along with the teachings of the early church fathers prior to the Nicene Council. If someone can give me clear scriptures with the writings of early church fathers prior to the Nicene Council that explain their understanding they are welcomed to do so.

For this reason he had to be made like them,[a] fully human in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people. Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted. (Hebrews 2:17-18)
If I may add:

“What God has not assumed, God has not saved” - Gregory of Nyssa

He had to assume our fallen nature to heal us of it.
 
I like your beginning humor, ‘mercy me’.

As Jesus Christ said, “I and the Father are one”. As the apostle Paul says, “in him dwells all the fullness of the G-dhead bodily”.

Maybe someday, I will understand the portion of the catechism that you have quoted. You are welcomed to pray that God will give me this understanding.

Thanks. God’s peace.
Mercy look at this another way. Do you believe that Christ is Human and Divine? If he was not both human and divine he could not save us from our sins if he is as you are thinking a sinner himself. See what I am saying?

Remember the scripture that Christ says if you look at a women with lust you have already sinned. Think about that.
 
Hunger, thirst, tiredness, like death, are not concupiscence, just the capacity to suffer that happened when Adam destroyed the perfect order of our world with his sin. Mercytruth, on the other hand, is saying that Our Lord had concupiscence, the seven deadly sins/faults/passions of Lust, anger, greed, gluttony, pride, envy, sloth-faults of our fallen state, or failure of positive inclinations (virtues) which inclines us to sin. These are a world of a difference from the “weaknesses” you gave- hunger, tiredness etc.
The Lord obviously couldn’t have had those, for although he would have been tempted externally, he would have had had no inclination to commit those sins.
 
Mercy look at this another way. Do you believe that Christ is Human and Divine? If he was not both human and divine he could not save us from our sins if he is as you are thinking a sinner himself. See what I am saying?

Remember the scripture that Christ says if you look at a women with lust you have already sinned. Think about that.
Rinnie,

Yes, I believe that our Lord Jesus Christ was/is both human and divine.

Do you believe that our Lord Jesus Christ was perfected through temptations and sufferings as the writer to the Hebrews has stated?

Do you believe we have a great High Priest who can have compassion on us because he was tempted as we are tempted, yet without sinning? Even as the Levitical high priests had compassion on their people, because they themselves had the same weaknesses or infirmities toward sin, as their own people? Yet, they were never able to become high priests forever according to the order of Melchizedek because everyone of them fell short and sinned.

The scriptures I quoted from Hebrews seem so clear, and yet, it seems like you all are ignoring these scriptures.

God’s peace and God’s will be done.
 
Rinnie,

Yes, I believe that our Lord Jesus Christ was/is both human and divine.

Do you believe that our Lord Jesus Christ was perfected through temptations and sufferings as the writer to the Hebrews has stated?

Do you believe we have a great High Priest who can have compassion on us because he was tempted as we are tempted, yet without sinning? Even as the Levitical high priests had compassion on their people, because they themselves had the same weaknesses or infirmities toward sin, as their own people? Yet, they were never able to become high priests forever according to the order of Melchizedek because everyone of them fell short and sinned.

The scriptures I quoted from Hebrews seem so clear, and yet, it seems like you all are ignoring these scriptures.

God’s peace and God’s will be done.
Good, now continue reading that scripture. In Hevrews 4:14 Jesus is called the Son of God, he is not just called a High Priest, is is called the SUPREME high priest

It shows you he has been put to the test, Anotherwards the same exact way we are, the same exact wants and desires. But the big difference is just because he was Fully Human, did not mean he was not also Fully divine.

This scirpture is telling you Jesus surpassed the High Priesthood of Melchizek. Which means he IS a BETTER means for our salvation.

Look at how it says the High Priest of Jesus has no need to offer up sacrifices everday as the High Priests do. Why? Simple because as the scripture tells you Christ did this ONCE and for all. It was an unrepeatable sacrifice of Jesus.

It it is once and for all, it has to be different from all the others in the O.T since these had to be repeated again and again, because they were unable to save anyone.

then it gpes on to say that the argument has been PROVEN, Christ is an eternal and perfect priest eternal and Superior to what the Leviitical priests are, they are all mortals and sinners.

It continues to show you Christ is the ONE and only Mediator, he is truly human and divine and the one and only.

Through him came grace and complete revelation. In heaven he continues to interceede for us.

If he had the want or desire to sin, he could not be sinless. He would be the same as the other Priests. But he was perfect and it was in the test that he became perfected. He felt the human need to sin, but still although the feelings of the personal gain to sin was felt, he did not for one minute have the desire for it. That is how he was made perfect.

He had every single human feeling we have when we are tempted by sin, but still did not feel the desire to sin. That is how he was perfected.

That is why he HAD to be without sin, It had to be a Human who was without sin to pay for our sins. If he had sins, he could not pay for our sins, and could not be the true Messiah. The true Messiah had to pay for the sins of others because he had no sins of his own.

That is why we are taught he died for OUR sins. If he had sins he could not have died for ours, he would have died for his own.
 
For this reason he had to be made like them,[a] fully human in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people. Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted. (Hebrews 2:17-18)
Please explain to me why you think “being fully human” involves being fallen, having concupiscence? Did God make humanity with disorders and inclinations to sin? Do you imagine that God did not make Adam and Eve human? Did Adam only become “human” after he sinned and created a disorder in God’s creation? Jesus was completely and perfectly human- The way God intended, not the disordered form. He took up our human nature- not our disorders- Christ had no inclination to sin.
 
St Augustine wrote in 376. He underwent death without being guilty of an inquity.

If Jesus had sin, he could not be the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world as told in the Gospel.

The Lamb had to be without blemish. Sin would be blemish.
 
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