I believe Jesus was never a god who became man

[paarsurrey]

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=4745582&postcount=42
A gentle correction on what is necessary to be a Christian

Originally Posted by Eucharisted:
Now, if some non-Catholic Christians said, “It’s not about faith/religion, it’s about how you relate to Jesus,” that would be correct.

Because God became man so that man might become like God, it is how we relate to - are like - God that counts in this world. “Be holy, just as your Father in Heaven is holy.”

Hi

The above does not represent views of all the non-Catholics. I love Jesus and his true teachings but I don’t believe that Jesus was ever a god who became man. Jesus had no explicit claim to it except some obscure statements narrated by others who misunderstood him. This is my sincere opinion, however, no disrespect is intended to anybody’s faith or creed.

I love Jesus and Krishna

Thanks

 

[R_not]

You need to post more to back up your assertions.

If you want to say the Bible is corrupted, then you need to prove it. Please don’t use the koran to prove it since that is based on an illiterate pagan.

Otherwise, just stating your belief isn’t too much to go on. Why do you think that?

Those others who wrote about Him were witnesses to Jesus’ miracles and His teachings. He appeared to them after He Resurrected. St. Paul was visited by Him so he would spread the Word to others who were not Jewish. mohammed had no miracle, no one saw him when he saw some angel and even blamed a little puppy when the angel didn’t appear before others. Like an Angel of the Lord would be frightened over one of His creatures! A little puppy.

And the ironic thing about all of this is that when we do quote surahs and hadiths to muslims - they squirm since so many of them are so violent, and filled with mohammed’s sexual escapades with wives and slaves (women and children).

And you are notorious for trying to rewrite the koran. There are 5 accepted translations and your not included among them.

• Pickthall
• Yusuf Ali
• alhilali Khan
• Shakir
  and I forget the last one.

 

[dolphinlove]

John 8
56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to think that he would see my Day; he saw it and was glad.
57 The Jews then said, ‘You are not fifty yet, and you have seen Abraham!’
**58 Jesus replied: In all truth I tell you, before Abraham ever was, I am. **

John 10
29 The Father, for what he has given me, is greater than anyone, and no one can steal anything from the Father’s hand.
**30 The Father and I are one. **

John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word: the Word was with God and the Word was God.
2 He was with God in the beginning.
14 The Word became flesh, he lived among us, and we saw his glory, the glory that he has from the Father as only Son of the Father, full of grace and truth.

John 20
25 So the other disciples said to him, ‘We have seen the Lord,’ but he answered, ‘Unless I can see the holes that the nails made in his hands and can put my finger into the holes they made, and unless I can put my hand into his side, I refuse to believe.’
26 Eight days later the disciples were in the house again and Thomas was with them. The doors were closed, but Jesus came in and stood among them. ‘Peace be with you,’ he said.
27 Then he spoke to Thomas, ‘Put your finger here; look, here are my hands. Give me your hand; put it into my side. Do not be unbelieving any more but believe.’
**28 Thomas replied, ‘My Lord and my God!’
29 Jesus said to him: You believe because you can see me. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe. **

Col 2
9 In him, in bodily form, lives divinity in all its fullness,
10 and in him you too find your own fulfilment, in the one who is the head of every sovereignty and ruling force.

Phil 2
5 Make your own the mind of Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, did not count equality with God something to be grasped.
7 But he emptied himself, taking the form of a slave, becoming as human beings are; and being in every way like a human being,
8 he was humbler yet, even to accepting death, death on a cross.
9 And for this God raised him high, and gave him the name which is above all other names;
10 so that all beings in the heavens, on earth and in the underworld, should bend the knee at the name of Jesus
11 and that every tongue should acknowledge Jesus Christ as Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

 

[WarriorAngel]

St John said ‘He was the Word and the Word was made FLESH.’

Pretty self explanatory.

 

[kellie]

paarsurrey,

There is more than 1 person who wrote about the life of Jesus and His teachings

More than 1 who wrote about it, who had witnessed His Ministry firsthand

Are you saying that ALL of these men misunderstood Him ??

How probable is that to happen ??

If you wrote about your parents, and so too did your brothers and sisters, and wrote about their values and morals, would you ALL get it wrong long after their deaths because you ALL misunderstood ???

Why are you so quick to presume they ALL misunderstood when it is so highly (name removed by moderator)robable?

Doesn’t it make more sense to believe what they wrote?

Can you please explain more how they would have misunderstood Jesus ?? They wrote He is God. What would Jesus have said instead, and what reason would the writers have to have misunderstood him?? Poor hearing?? They spoke a different language?? They wanted to trick future generations ??

Please explain more

 

[ronyodish]

paarsurrey,

The Catholic Church does not teach that Jesus was a god who became man. The Catholic Church teaches that Jesus is God who became Man.

God bless,

Rony

 

[Luke65]

paarsurrey, the fact that Jesus is God is declared numerous times in Scripture, and in many ways - both explicitly and implicitly. And not just in the New Testament…

“For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.” (Isaiah 9:6)

And that is just the tip of the iceberg. Jesus is the Light of the world. And He is your only Savior, so if I were you I wouldn’t slander Him. Instead, open your heart and your mind and ask God to reveal Himself to you - and persevere in your search for the Truth. (Have you read Isaiah 53?)

 

[Cluny]

Yes, He is.

Your denying it won’t change that fact, paarsurrey.

 

[paarsurrey]

Originally Posted by look3467:
Hi,
If I may explain the reason for Jesus being not a god but God in the flesh.

The creation of mankind by God placed mankind in a dilemma by which there was no escape, meaning mankind by its own power could do noting to escape.

Hi

Thanks for you response. I cannot ,however, agree with you as it logically makes God a non-entity. God is only attributive and if God melts down to a human physical form; it relinquishes all attributes in this process one by one. in my opinion.

It was Paul who invented godhead for Jesus, only for his own ulterior motives. It is Paul’s weird concept and not a concept of Jesus he believed in.

If God becomes a man; who then controls the Universe, in the intermittent period; the Universe kept smoothly working while God was missing and became man.

If the Universe could do without God for a while; then logically it could do without it always.

I love Jesus a perfect man though.

 

[LutheranDK]

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=4745582&postcount=42
A gentle correction on what is necessary to be a Christian

Hi

The above does not represent views of all the non-Catholics. I love Jesus and his true teachings but I don’t believe that Jesus was ever a god who became man. Jesus had no explicit claim to it except some obscure statements narrated by others who misunderstood him. This is my sincere opinion, however, no disrespect is intended to anybody’s faith or creed.

I love Jesus and Krishna

Thanks

Indeed, Jesus was never “A” god that became man, because there is only ONE God.
Jesus was God, who became man. Big difference.

You are, of course, intitled to your opinion, but it is not the opinion of those who should know best: The authors of the Bible. The divinity of Christ is clear throughout the NT, even from the translations, and become much clearer when one dives into the original Greek.

 

[Reuben_J]

Hi

Thanks for you response. I cannot ,however, agree with you as it logically makes God a non-entity. God is only attributive and if God melts down to a human physical form; it relinquishes all attributes in this process one by one. in my opinion.

This is for other posters who might browse this thread. Paarsurrey is beyond saved but of course we never know with God. Jesus might just touch him as he did to Paul who was even worse anti-Jesus but look at what God did to him.

It was Paul who invented godhead for Jesus, only for his own ulterior motives. It is Paul’s weird concept and not a concept of Jesus he believed in.

Maybe you want to elaborate on this. How he alone did that (invented godhead) and that this is not expounded by the other apostles.

And what was Paul ulterior motive might be?

If God becomes a man; who then controls the Universe, in the intermittent period; the Universe kept smoothly working while God was missing and became man.

Simple, your problem has been immediately solved here.

God does not cease to be God when he became man. Thanks God, He is too great and omnipotent that he can be both at the same times.

If the Universe could do without God for a while; then logically it could do without it always.

Your wrong premise has been just solved. The universe and man (and woman) cannot be without God; we will be on our way to destruction without Him. That’s why we need Him most and Jesus most.

I love Jesus a perfect man though.

That a good step at a time but you can always upgrade and love him as a perfect God.

A consolation from such a gloomy post - at least you don’t equate Jesus to Mohammad who was less than being perfect.

 

[ronyodish]

paarsurrey,

When God the Son became Man, He never lost His Godhead in the assumption of His Manhood from the Virgin Mary. In Christ, there are two perfect natures, the nature of God and the nature of Man, in a perfect Union. Christ is God and Man in one Person, one Son.

As to His Godhead, He keeps the Universe in existence and sustains all men with food and drink.
As to His Manhood, He is nourished by the fruits of the earth and eats and drinks like all men.

It is the same one Son who shows us His Divinity by sustaining the earth, and shows us His Humanity by receiving sustenance from the earth.

As to His Godhead, He is one with the Father and the Spirit as one Triune God.
As to His Manhood, He is one with us men as one Head to one Body.

God bless,

Rony

 

[paarsurrey]

God does not cease to be God when he became man. Thanks God, He is too great and omnipotent that he can be both at the same times.

What is this weird concept of Omnipotent God who is impotent in practical life; cannot marry a woman and cannot have children?

This makes Jesus only a defective god and a defective man; in no case a perfect God or a perfect man, in my opinion.

I love Jesus so I will defend him against these Pauline odd concepts.

 

[dolphinlove]

What is this weird concept of Omnipotent God who is impotent in practical life; cannot marry a woman and cannot have children?

This makes Jesus only a defective god and a defective man; in no case a perfect God or a perfect man, in my opinion.

I love Jesus so I will defend him against these Pauline odd concepts.

Because he doesnt have children and didnt marry, he isnt perfect?
Paars, the reason Jesus came here is to save us, not to get married and have children, he came to teach us and he is our saviour.

 

[paarsurrey]

Originally Posted by paarsurrey:
What is this weird concept of Omnipotent God who is impotent in practical life; cannot marry a woman and cannot have children?

This makes Jesus only a defective god and a defective man; in no case a perfect God or a perfect man, in my opinion.

I love Jesus so I will defend him against these Pauline odd concepts.

Because he doesnt have children and didnt marry, he isnt perfect?
Paars, the reason Jesus came here is to save us, not to get married and have children, he came to teach us and he is our saviour.

Hi

In that case it was a mistake of Jesus to lose godhead only to become a defective man; so by becoming a defective man he only proved that he was a defective god to start with.
I don’t agree with Paul.

Let Jesus remain a perfect man at least.

I love Jesus so I will defend Jesus against Pauline odd concepts.

Thanks

 

[WarriorAngel]

St John said ‘He was the Word and the Word was made FLESH.’

Pretty self explanatory.

I think perhaps I need to requote this.

What is this weird concept of Omnipotent God who is impotent in practical life; cannot marry a woman and cannot have children?

This makes Jesus only a defective god and a defective man; in no case a perfect God or a perfect man, in my opinion.

I love Jesus so I will defend him against these Pauline odd concepts.

St Paul says it is not a sin to marry - BUT it is BETTER to remain a virgin.

Maybe we can show you the scriptures that disproove your theories. However; in order to have a full dialogue we need give and take.

You need to actually let us speak to you, and you absorb it.
I don’t know if you are, but I wanted to make this a point before I spill some scriptures out…

No where does scriptures say it is good to be married and that only those are perfect do get married. St Paul said it is BETTER to remain unmarried for a widow BUT then better to marry if they cannot abstain from fornications.

IE - it’s better to get married again after widowhood than to burn in hell for fornicating.

God did not need to come to earth to reproduce with His children - His clay.
I find that idea reprehensible, but that’s just me.

The Lord God doesn’t need to lust after His creatures in order to be found perfect amongst the sinners of the earth. He came to destroy sin -** not to procreate against His own commands BTW**.

For it says in Exodus AFTER the earth was full from the time of Noah and the necessity of procreating within the family was no longer a need.
We know we are the children of the Lord - so why would He come to commit incest which would be against His commands…?

Furthermore, Isaias mentioned the Messiah - the Savior of the world…as such:

Isaias 9
6 For a CHILD IS BORN to us, and a son is given to us, and the government is upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called, Wonderful, Counsellor, God the Mighty, the Father of the world to come, the Prince of Peace.

 

[paarsurrey]

(name removed by moderator); 4746213:

Why is Christ imperfect because he did not marry?

Hi

It is not difficult to understand in my opinion. The Catholics believe that Jesus was God who became man.

Why did he become a man and he did not become a woman or a neutral gender (neither a man nor a woman)? Why did he have the male sex organs when he could not use them? Was it a mistake of the Catholic God that Jesus had male organs without a purpose? The nature does not provide one with the parts that have no use. Since the Catholics say Jesus-god opted for being a man; it is a either a mistake on the part of Jesus-god to opt to become a man rather than a neutral gender or it is a failing on the part of the Jesus-man that he could not fulfill what was required of him from Jesus-god, in my opinion, or might be on the part of both.

I love Jesus so I don’t believe in such things and I would opt to defend Jesus against such faulty concepts attributed to him by Paul or his Church. This is however only a discussion to know the truth; no disrespect is intended to anybody or any faith.

Thanks

 

[Jay53]

Is this morphing into a variation of the “Real men have to get married and have children” thread? I don’t think I ever received an answer as to if this a Muslim belief or a (deluded) individual belief?

 

[WarriorAngel]

Hi

It is not difficult to understand in my opinion. The Catholics believe that Jesus was God who became man.

Isaias’s believed it too, and wasn’t he inspired from God to prophecy?
SEE above quote.

Why did he become a man and he did not become a woman or a neutral gender (neither a man nor a woman)?

Because God is our Father - see above quote.
God doesn’t confuse the genders for the reality of the souls’ status, for women have an equal reward in Heaven.
[Maybe read St John Chrysostom or St Augustine]

I should take the time to show the earlier heresies you are repeating, but I don’t think i will.
Needless to say, the fathers I quoted were already at their time actively stomping out these sort of theories that stem from men.

Why did he have the male sex organs when he could not use them? Was it a mistake of the Catholic God that Jesus had male organs without a purpose? The nature does not provide one with the parts that have no use. Since the Catholics say Jesus-god opted for being a man; it is a either a mistake on the part of Jesus-god to opt to become a man rather than a neutral gender or it is a failing on the part of the Jesus-man that he could not fulfill what was required of him from Jesus-god, in my opinion, or might be on the part of both.

I love Jesus so I don’t believe in such things and I would opt to defend Jesus against such faulty concepts attributed to him by Paul or his Church. This is however only a discussion to know the truth; no disrespect is intended to anybody or any faith.

Thanks

I notice you continue to ignore me.
I find that flattering actually.
It’s hard to argue against the glaringly obvious. And so ignoring it is always the easiest way.

God didn’t come to earth to produce mortal children. He didnt come for the carnal acts. He didnt come here to reproduce.

He came for the sole purpose to open the gates of Heaven and save our souls.

Now tell me what salvivic part of procreation does that?

Why would Jesus, knowing He had to die for us, come and marry a woman and have children only to widow her early and leave orphans?

Would you do that only because you felt a need to copulate?

How selfish would that be to knowingly come to the earth to die in our place for sins only to leave a widow with children unsupported?

Lord have mercy on me.

 

[Eucharisted]

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=4745582&postcount=42
A gentle correction on what is necessary to be a Christian

Hi

The above does not represent views of all the non-Catholics. I love Jesus and his true teachings but I don’t believe that Jesus was ever a god who became man. Jesus had no explicit claim to it except some obscure statements narrated by others who misunderstood him. This is my sincere opinion, however, no disrespect is intended to anybody’s faith or creed.

I love Jesus and Krishna

Thanks

You misread. I said “non-Catholic Christians,” not “non-Catholics.”

Certaintly the Mystery of the Incarnation dose not represent the views of all non-Catholics, and my post was directed not at all non-Catholics but at Christians in general.

Furthermore, the title of this thread is correct: Jesus was never a god who became man. Christians don’t believe this. We believe, however, that Jesus Christ is God Incarnate.

Thank you, sir, for giving us Christians an opportunity to share the splendor of truth!