I believe Jesus was never a god who became man

[R_not]

It really makes me wonder about islam and its adherents.

God has made the Universe and all things in it and according to muslims God could not manifest Himself as a Man?

But, in islam - their god is contradicting itself all the time. Their god is overly concerned with mohammed’s sex life. Their god is overly concerned with what direction they pray. It didn’t even know that man would leave the zone of the earth. ! Or that the earth revolved around the sun!

Maybe that is why they find it so hard to believe that Jesus is God. They have been brought up with a god that didn’t know too much. They have been told that the Bible was corrupted, but cannot prove it. So, they think that all the men who witnessed Jesus were lying.

Maybe somewhere, sometime, they will realize the illogic in islam.

 

[rikkk1958]

Why I like this forum is because of the obvious variety of intellects or knowledge by every posters. But it is also for this reason what this forum is all about. To enlightened those who are in darkness bringing them forth out to the truth. The Catholic Church had been open minded ever since because it took many intellectuals, scholars, and even witnesses of the origin, to write down what they saw and heard, study, debate, teach, and then spread them out so everyone will receive the Good News.

We can read posts from different walks of life, non-Christians especially who either needed answers or perhaps just to prove that the knowledge they have is better than us and convincing to be the real truth. We all know that we are humans with reasons and our rationality depends on our intellect and knowledge. Atheists are good with rationalization because it is easy for someone to argue without “faith”. As St. Paul said faith is believing of the unseen and realization of what you are hoping for.

Paarsurey argues the divinity of Jesus Christ as God because he truly believes Jesus is just human like us who are in flesh. This concept is true for someone who do not want to believe on other matters that supports the divinity of Jesus as God. The reason why Christians believe that Jesus is God is because of the overwhelming evidences and passages, and of course believing that God can be Anything, Anywhere, and the Beginning and the End. Now if you believe otherwise that God is not Everything Possible then you have problem knowing God.

Proving the “Holy Trinity” had been discussed many times on this thread. There are many ways also to study them by way of browsing the internet. One good point is that “plurality in unity” which means just like that. God can be everything and all we need to do is believe that He is capable of doing anything He wishes.Some links you can go to:

arabicbible.com/islam/trinit.htm

youtube.com/watch?v=xi2nAHPpgvI

 

[Bill_Pick]

paarsurrey,

The Catholic Church does not teach that Jesus was a god who became man. The Catholic Church teaches that Jesus is God who became Man.

God bless,

Rony

. Joseph Smith taught that there are many gods with bodies made up of flesh and bone like man. He also taught that the gods were once mortal men.

"I will preach on the plurality of gods…many men say there is one God…the heads of the Gods appointed one God for us…that is pertaining to us.
“God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens.”
(Teachings of the Prophet, Joseph Smith 1974 pp. 345-346 & 370-372)
Brigham Young taught:

“How many gods there are I do not know. But there never was a time when there were not gods and worlds.”
(Discourses of Brigham Young 1954 pp. 22 & 23)
. Smith, supposedly a true prophet from God, and one who would not lie nor be deceived in what he taught, teaches that there are many gods and one of them has been assigned by the council of the gods to be the god of this earth. It is with this God that mankind must deal. This means that when Christians meet with Mormons to offer up a prayer to God the Father, all in the group are not praying to the same God!

Smith’s doctrine on the plurality of gods and their materiality directly contradicts the Bible of the Christians. One of the great revelations of the Old Testament religion given to mankind is that there is only one, true God and no one else besides Him, and that He is entirely without matter, totally invisible.

 

[rikkk1958]

Smith’s doctrine on the plurality of gods and their materiality directly contradicts the Bible of the Christians. One of the great revelations of the Old Testament religion given to mankind is that there is only one, true God and no one else besides Him, and that He is entirely without matter, totally invisible

.

The Plurality in unity means that, anywhere or everywhere there is God, and He can be anything anywhere, anytime, and everything is possible for Him. The OT clearly mentioned how God came as Man and Spirit. Abraham once spoke to God face to face. How His Spirit hovered above the ocean of waters.

We believe that He came down as Man, and His Spirit is everywhere. With the prophets like Isaiah foretold the coming of the Son whom to be called Emmanuel which means “God is with us”. The plurality clearly is there and they are all in unity as One.

 

[Bill_Pick]

COULD SMITH HAVE BEEN A TRUE PROPHET FROM GOD?

The main biblical rule for ascertaining a true prophet from a false one is that the prophet’s teaching must agree with known revelation, that is, with what was already handed down by God as absolutely essential for belief. (Deuteronomy 13: 1-5 II Timothy 4: 3-5)

Jesus was very careful to abide by this rule. He assured His listeners (Matthew 5: 17) that His mission on earth was not to destroy the basic truths of the Jewish religion, for example, the existence of a one, true immaterial God, not made of flesh and bones like man.

Even Paul to the Galatians (1: 7-9) warns his new Christian converts not to accept another gospel opposed to what he preached even if an angel from heaven were to preach it.

Now Joseph Smith taught doctrines which Jesus and Paul did not teach as part of true, Old Testament belief as well as true Christianity: the doctrine of many gods made up of flesh and bone, polygamy, and the pre-existence of souls. How then, could Joseph have been a true prophet from God since he violated this fundamental requisite for a genuine prophet?

Joseph also made some predictions about the future. In 1835 he predicted that in his own lifetime there would be a great gathering in Western Missouri of all the Mormon faithful before a new, huge Temple which was to be built for the event. Such a happening never came to pass. (Doctrine & Covenants Sec. 84: 1-6)

LDS say that Joseph predicted the United States Civil War. Yet thousands of Americans in 1832 already knew the war was coming just from their intelligent analysis of the current political situation over slavery and the theory of the State’s rights. What is far more serious to the outsider here is that in connection with this prophecy Joseph predicted that the War would draw Great Britain and other nations into the conflict thereby causing great destruction and famine. Yet this never came to pass. (Doctrine & Covenants Sec. 87)

In 1835 Joseph prophesied the coming of the Lord in 1891 to end the kingdom of earth. This never occurred either. (History of the Church Vol. 2, p. 182)

To the sincere inquirer into Mormonism such predictions and their non-fulfillment is a serious difficulty. Joseph claimed the predictions came from God and he prefaced the information with such phrases as "Thus sayeth the Lord, " “The word of the Lord is…” (Deuteronomy 18: 22)

. Finally, it is difficult to accept the Mormon belief that Joseph was a true prophet of God and presumably the last to be heard from, when for the true Christian it is very clearly stated in the New Testament that Jesus Christ is the last of a long line of prophets from God.

“God who at sundry times and in diverse manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son whom he hath appointed heir of all things.”
(Epistle to the Hebrews 1: 1)
Therefore I respectfully submit that Joseph Smith could not have been a true prophet from God.

 

[Luke65]

It was Paul who invented godhead for Jesus, only for his own ulterior motives. It is Paul’s weird concept and not a concept of Jesus he believed in.

This after you just saw Isaiah’s prophecy that the Messiah would be God. So you prove that you have no interest in the truth. You believe what you want to believe - without reason. When you change your heart - that is, when you allow God to change your heart - come back, and you will find all the answers to your questions here at Catholic Answers. God be with you.

 

[codebilly]

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=4745582&postcount=42

The above does not represent views of all the non-Catholics. I love Jesus and his true teachings but I don’t believe that Jesus was ever a god who became man. Jesus had no explicit claim to it except some obscure statements narrated by others who misunderstood him. This is my sincere opinion, however, no disrespect is intended to anybody’s faith or creed.

I love Jesus and Krishna

Thanks

Paarsurrey,

Do you believe God is a Person?

Is there such a thing as a personal relationship with God?

Are there (purified) persons in heaven? What is God to persons in heaven? Is He again an unseen substance far off from the heavenly inhabitants?

We don’t believe in an impersonal God. God is Divine Person, and that Person stepped into time to save the fallen.

When people die and face their judgement, followers of Jesus can enter His Body and Blood, His life and thus be presented to God the Father, pure.

Who will present you to God the Father?

 

[mark_a]

The above does not represent views of all the non-Catholics. I love Jesus and his true teachings but I don’t believe that Jesus was ever a god who became man.

Jesus was not a god who became man, He is *the God *who became man.

Mankind loves truth. The truth is a Person. These facts cannot be improved upon.

 

[kellie]

What is this weird concept of Omnipotent God who is impotent in practical life; cannot marry a woman and cannot have children?

This makes Jesus only a defective god and a defective man; in no case a perfect God or a perfect man, in my opinion.

I love Jesus so I will defend him against these Pauline odd concepts.

Ahhh, I have finally figured out why paarsurrey does not understand us
He does not seem to understand the English language

paarsurrey, this is the definition of “impotent”

1.not potent; lacking power or ability.2.utterly unable (to do something).3.without force or effectiveness.4.lacking bodily strength or physically helpless.5.(of a male) unable to attain or sustain a penile erection.6.(esp. of a male) sterile.

Jesus was neither of those 6 things

As a man, I am sure Jesus was able to sustain an erection. You have no proof he couldnt paarsurrey.

He wasnt impotent, He CHOSE to not marry and have children, as His work was more important, that work being to save us all

From now on paarsurrey, if you are going to continuie to use these forums, I suggest you study the English language a bit before you start sprouting definitions of words

Jesus IS God, that is what Christians believe, so why keep trying to tell us otherwise ???

Paul believed it too

You have never replied to my question as to how so many would “misunderstand” Jesus either … or is “misunderstand” another word you dont understand fully??

 

[Bill_Pick]

Jesus was God and become man,HE is the Father, the SON and the Hs,
thank of it like me i,m father,son and gradfather and husband,pick any three and i,m still just one,

 

[Eucharisted]

Jesus was God and become man,HE is the Father, the SON and the Hs,
thank of it like me i,m father,son and gradfather and husband,pick any three and i,m still just one,

Jesus is the Son Incarnate, God Incarnate. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are each God, yet distinct from one another in their relationship to each other. So Jesus is the Son and the Father is in Him, and He and the Father are in the Holy Spirit, for all three Persons are God. It is the mystery of the oneness of God, the mystery of the triunity of the Lord.

 

[mark_a]

Ahhh, I have finally figured out why paarsurrey does not understand us
He does not seem to understand the English language

paarsurrey, this is the definition of “impotent”

1.not potent; lacking power or ability.2.utterly unable (to do something).3.without force or effectiveness.4.lacking bodily strength or physically helpless.5.(of a male) unable to attain or sustain a penile erection.6.(esp. of a male) sterile.

Jesus was neither of those 6 things

As a man, I am sure Jesus was able to sustain an erection. You have no proof he couldnt paarsurrey.

He wasnt impotent, He CHOSE to not marry and have children, as His work was more important, that work being to save us all

From now on paarsurrey, if you are going to continuie to use these forums, I suggest you study the English language a bit before you start sprouting definitions of words

Jesus IS God, that is what Christians believe, so why keep trying to tell us otherwise ???

Paul believed it too

You have never replied to my question as to how so many would “misunderstand” Jesus either … or is “misunderstand” another word you dont understand fully??

Wow Kellie, I think you are right abouty paarsurrey.

 

[Reuben_J]

It was Paul who invented godhead for Jesus, only for his own ulterior motives. It is Paul’s weird concept and not a concept of Jesus he believed in.

Maybe you want to elaborate on this. How he alone did that (invented godhead) and that this is not expounded by the other apostles.

And what was Paul ulterior motive might be?

If God becomes a man; who then controls the Universe, in the intermittent period; the Universe kept smoothly working while God was missing and became man.

Simple, your problem has been immediately solved here.

God does not cease to be God when he became man. Thanks God, He is too great and omnipotent that he can be both at the same times.

If the Universe could do without God for a while; then logically it could do without it always.

Your wrong premise has been just solved. The universe and man (and woman) cannot be without God; we will be on our way to destruction without Him. That’s why we need Him most and Jesus most.

I love Jesus a perfect man though.

That a good step at a time but you can always upgrade and love him as a perfect God.

A consolation from such a gloomy post - at least you don’t equate Jesus to Mohammad who was less than being perfect.

I hope you can answer some of the questions, especially the one on Paul so that posters can gauge your idea and address your thought accordingly.

 

[sambos671]

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=4745582&postcount=42
A gentle correction on what is necessary to be a Christian

Hi

The above does not represent views of all the non-Catholics. I love Jesus and his true teachings but I don’t believe that Jesus was ever a god who became man. Jesus had no explicit claim to it except some obscure statements narrated by others who misunderstood him. This is my sincere opinion, however, no disrespect is intended to anybody’s faith or creed.

I love Jesus and Krishna

Thanks

But Krishna doesn’t love Jesus, He may have a thing for Shiva and definately lives in fear of Vishnu. I don’t know… how are Krishna and Cali together?

 

[Reuben_J]

BTW folks, Paarsurrey is a disciple of Mohammad, the prophet of Islam. His idea on being omnipotent must be derived from Mohammad’s very own. Like you must marry and impregnated as many women as possible and that is what he call omnipotent. Being God and human at the same times obviously is not big deal to him or rather he think God cannot do it. We should not be surprised by this thought because as I have heard there were many things that Allah could not do as well. So since Paarsurrey is from this school of though, perhaps it would be easier to figure out what he said after we understand his mind.

It is helpful to note that mianstream Muslims do not agree with him. We can entertain this thread because at least we can give him a simple Catechism lesson.

 

[ralphinal]

How many women must a man bed before you call him a man?

 

[ralphinal]

You caught me…

 

[planten]

It really makes me wonder about islam and its adherents.

God has made the Universe and all things in it and according to muslims God could not manifest Himself as a Man?

But, in islam - their god is contradicting itself all the time. Their god is overly concerned with mohammed’s sex life. Their god is overly concerned with what direction they pray. It didn’t even know that man would leave the zone of the earth. ! Or that the earth revolved around the sun!

Maybe that is why they find it so hard to believe that Jesus is God. They have been brought up with a god that didn’t know too much. They have been told that the Bible was corrupted, but cannot prove it. So, they think that all the men who witnessed Jesus were lying.

Maybe somewhere, sometime, they will realize the illogic in islam.

**R_Not, You are discussing sex life of Muhammad again and again. I am beginning to wonder about the beautiful sex life of your God.

As paarsurrey has interestingly pointed out that Jesus may have had sex parts i.e. sex organs, but did not use them. Did he really not make use of them? Why?

It appears that while he was not a man, your God must have had sex parts in heavens.too but not using them. (Is he still having them there? What for?) You are a funny person who is discussing sex life of Muhammad. For humans, It is not bad to have sex life with the male and female parts. But what your god did with his sex parts and why did he have them or did he have them??**

 

[dzheremi]

What is the point of all these threads, Paarsurrey? You start strange threads with big declarative statements. “I believe ____”, “I don’t believe ____”. That’s just super, my friend. I was unaware that Catholic Answers is to be treated like your own personal diary.

Do you have any point to make, other than that you don’t believe in Christianity? We already knew that already. Say something new now.

Planten: The difference between Muhammad’s sex life and Jesus having or not having genitals is the importance given to either by their respective communities. For Christians, Jesus having genitals or not having genitals is of no consequence, but for Muslims, Muhammad’s sex life must surely be a big issue, since he is held up as an example for all humanity. So you cannot run away from the examples (good or bad) that Muhammad provides that we can also read about (and disagree with!) by asking lewd things about Our Savior. We will not stand for this pathetic attempt at misdirection. If you don’t want to answer any question or you don’t like what R_Not posts, then say that; don’t start talking about other things!

 

[paarsurrey]

Do you have any point to make, other than that you don’t believe in Christianity? We already knew that already.

Hi

I love Jesus and Mary and their true teachings so in that sense we Ahmadi peaceful Muslims are the only true Catholics or the only true Christians; but we prefer to call ourselves Ahmadi Muslims so that others do know what we are. It is only we who have truthfully accepted the Gospel of Jesus - the good tidings that Muhammad is a truthful Messenger of God whose other name is Ahmad. We have also accepted Second Coming 1835-1908 as per the Prophecy of Muhammad.

This is my opinion; others could differ with it, no compulsion.

I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Buddha and Krishna

Thanks