I can't forgive my cousin

[yellowbird]

But in the meantime, I’d be tempted to send Ben and his fiancee everything written in this thread as a wedding gift to them both.
It’s the most anyone could ever do to educate them and give them fair warning of the icebergs ahead, as they prepare to sail…
on the Titanic.

Interesting idea. I’d send it to the fiancee.

To Nicole: You did the right thing and were sooooo brave. Yay for you.

My prayers are with you and your sister.

 

[Primox]

Most of the experts on pedophilia say that these people never stop, that during the course of their lives they abuse many, many children.

Actually, that’s not true. I’d be surprised if you could find me a peer-reviewed source that supports this claim.

If he doesn’t go to jail, people around him should at least know what he is so that they don’t leave children alone with him to be abused the way the OP and her sister were.

There are matters of contingency and confidentiality in law that you haven’t, nor can you, by your jurisdiction, address.

I’m not saying these things are impossible. I’m saying whether Ben is high-risk and whether he should retain his confidentiality is dependent on more than your wishes.

 

[canne]

He did that to your sister when he was 19? That is a serious crime. I think that you and she should seriously consider pressing charges against him. How long ago did this happen? Has the statute of limitations expired?

You may not like hearing this, but I think you have a responsibility to tell his fiance. Not out of spite or revenge, but because HE WILL LIKELY HAVE CHILDREN WITH HER. Because your parents did nothing after you told them when you were 4, he did the very same thing to your sister. CHANCES ARE HE DID THIS TO MANY OTHERS, if no one speaks out, he will continue to abuse and ruin lives.

This is not about exposing him or making him pay, but about trying to prevent a repeat child molester from harming more children. And I don’t think there is any question about the seriousness of what he did, 19 is an adult. I can imagine if he was 12 or something like that it could still be considered in the realm of innocent childish behavior. But sexually touching a 6 year old at 19. Everything that is said about this type of person is that they never change, and do it again and again.

I agree with this 100%. I would contact your priest for counseling (both you and your sister) and tell him what had happened. I would let his fiance know and then contact the proper authorities. I will be praying for you during this difficult time-but I agree that it is highly likely he molested others and highly likely he will continue to molest, perhaps even his own daughters should he have them.

 

[canne]

My apologizies I posted above before reading this thread through.
Please know that my prayers are still with you in this difficult situation.

 

[flyingfish]

Actually, that’s not true. I’d be surprised if you could find me a peer-reviewed source that supports this claim.

Well I’ll be honest, I haven’t been researching this. And my information primarily derives from experts on the news, and Discovery channel shows about criminals. That said, the people brought out on the news/documentaries were experts.

justice.gc.ca/eng/pi/rs/rep-rap/jr/jr13/p5d.html

Seems to summarize studies. Some quotes about the different studies:

Harris and Hanson (2004), in their extensive summary of existing data sources, found that within five years, the sexual recidivism rate for general sexual offenders was 14%, and by 15 years, this number had increased to 24%. Harris and Hanson (2004) further examined types of sexual offenders (e.g., rapists, incest offenders, molesters) after 15 years and found that CSE incest offenders (intra-familial) had a much lower rate of sexual recidivism (13%), while CSE offenders who molested girl victims (extra-familial) demonstrated a 16% sexual recidivism rate and CSE offenders who molested boy victims (extra-familial) demonstrated a 35% sexual recidivism rate.

Langevin et al. (2004) recently published a study of 320 sexual offenders who were seen for psychiatric assessment between 1966 and 1974, using a 25-year follow-up period. The authors reported that 88% of the offenders had sexually re-offended within the follow-up period. This is obviously much higher than Harris and Hanson’s (2004) figure of 24%. As noted previously, however, there are differences in method that may account for much of the discrepancy.

First, Langevin et al. (2004) included convictions, charges, court appearances and self-reported criminal behaviour found in hospital records in their definition of recidivism while Harris and Hanson (2004) used official charges and convictions only. It is not surprising that using a broader definition of recidivism produces higher recidivism rates. Second, Langevin et al. (2004) used a sample of psychiatric patients which diminishes the generalizability of the findings to all sexual offenders. This sample consists of offenders who were assessed for a psychiatric illness and, as such, likely represents an unique sub-group of sexual offenders. Harris and Hanson’s (2004) sample was primarily comprised of offenders released from custodial facilities and therefore may be more representative of the general sexual offender population.

Hanson et al. (1995), using a 15-30 year follow-up period with CSE offenders only, reported a 42% recidivism rate for any new sexual and/or violent crime. The 42% recidivism rate for CSE offenders was much lower than the 88% reported in the Langevin et al. (2004) study although the time periods were roughly similar. The difference may again be related to the definition of recidivism and the characteristics of the sample, as Hanson et al. (1995) used reconvictions to measure recidivism and sampled only CSE offenders released from prison.

I’ll admit these rates aren’t 100% recidivism, but these studies used different methodologies and range from 13% - 88%. It’s of course impossible to know which category this guy fits into.

BUT, a relevant aspect of all this is that he is known to have reoffended within 4 years of his initial known crime when he molested the OP’s sister after molesting her. And these are just the ones we know about.

There are matters of contingency and confidentiality in law that you haven’t, nor can you, by your jurisdiction, address.

I’m not saying these things are impossible. I’m saying whether Ben is high-risk and whether he should retain his confidentiality is dependent on more than your wishes.

I don’t see why you are so protective of this guy. A guy who molested 2 young children on 2 separate occasions should have his “confidentiality” protected? Sorry but this is laughable. Why do you care so much if the whole world knows of the atrocities he has committed? He should have “child molester” branded on his forehead as far as I’m concerned if it means parents will not leave their children alone with him.

Why should the comfort and “confidentiality” of a guy that assaulted 2 young girls come before protecting other children from him?

 

[former_Catholic]

He should have “child molester” branded on his forehead as far as I’m concerned if it means parents will not leave their children alone with him.
Why should the comfort and “confidentiality” of a guy that assaulted 2 young girls come before protecting other children from him?

It doesn’t, however nobody wants to see any innocent people who are trying to do good and protect children in this world get in trouble with the law themselves for assault with a deadly branding iron or harassment or stalking or end up being sued for defamation of character! Even the guilty are not considered guilty by the law until they are proven guilty in a court of law… it’s the law.

Parents need to know that in this dangerous, disfunctional, addicted, and toxic world they cannot necessarily leave their children safely alone with anybody. It doesn’t matter what church the person belongs to or whose relative the person might be, it doesn’t matter.
The world is full of rat poison, toxic chemicals, pesticides and herbicides, gun cabinets, liquor cabinets, legal and illegal drugs, dangerous machinery, bleach bottles under sinks, poisonous plants, flaming barbecues, candles, cigarettes and fireplaces, hot stoves, frayed wires, dangling cords, broken glass, running lawnmowers, speeding vehicles, flying sports equipment, darling poopsie pit bulls who would just never ever hurt anybody (until they unexpectedly rip a child’s throat out for no particular reason), unlocked chain link fences around swimming pools, and a thousand other things supremely dangerous and even potentially fatal to young children…
(including knuckle-dragging ignorant teenaged boys overly fascinated with their bodies and everyone else’s who might also think with the wrong end of their bodies until they themselves are put up against the wall and see the light… of interrogation, confrontation, investigation, condemnation, and possible incarceration.)

Wherever you are and wherever you go, there are a thousand things around you that could potentially scar a child for life, including people who are inclined to abuse others (including children) intentionally or unintentionally verbally, physically, mentally, emotionally, or even sexually! Most people can barely look out for themselves in this world and the vast majority of people are completely unfit to watch over a 4 or 6 year old child!

Because you cannot possibly begin to label everything and everyone around that is potentially dangerous to a child, and because branding anyone at all, unconvicted child molester notwithstanding, is very much illegal, the safety of children must begin with the education of parents and children, and the willingness of everyone to listen to children, take them seriously, and immediately report any suspected problem of abuse or neglect so that it can be immediately investigated and dealt with by the authorities, generally CPS (child protective services).

 

[flyingfish]

Well, I don’t mean literally branded. Society does “brand” people like him by putting them in the sex offender registry.

If the sisters publicly stated that this guy molested them when they were young, could he really sue? I mean, what would that lawsuit look like? He would claim “I didn’t do it” and the sisters would say “yes he did, but we were 4 and 6 at the time and in no state to press charges”. I mean really, what do you think a judge would do in that situation?

Maybe she and her sister should sue him for emotional damages.

That said, the best course of action from a legal perspective is for the girls to report this to the authorities (and maybe to citizen’s groups that look out for pedophiles in the area). It would be up to the prosecutor to decide if this guy can be tried, which considering there are 2 accusers he may be even without physical evidence. Plus, it would be good for the authorities to have record of this accusation. Who knows, maybe there were others that had already come forward about him.

 

[SaltySirena]

Primox, perpetrators of crime have no right to expect confidentiality from their victims. The victims have a perfect right to tell anyone they wish, at any time, however many times they wish. Hopefully that will include police, CPS, etc.

But if someone commits a crime, they take away any right to privacy or confidentiality they have about the events, because they forcibly brought a second party into their sick world. It’s the victims’ experience too, not just the perpetrator’s. They are allowed to relate it.

 

[Primox]

Well I’ll be honest, I haven’t been researching this. And my information primarily derives from experts on the news, and Discovery channel shows about criminals. That said, the people brought out on the news/documentaries were experts.

justice.gc.ca/eng/pi/rs/rep-rap/jr/jr13/p5d.html

Seems to summarize studies. Some quotes about the different studies:

I’ll admit these rates aren’t 100% recidivism, but these studies used different methodologies and range from 13% - 88%. It’s of course impossible to know which category this guy fits into.

This is the point I’m making. Ben doesn’t fit into any of these categories from which the samples were drawn. Recidivism rates mean nothing if the conclusions are generalized beyond the available data. Among high-risk offenders, recidivism rates increase over time (that’s right), but among low-risk offenders, offences tend to regress to the mean and dissipate over time. I don’t think Ben is a high-risk offender, but that’s just my opinion. What I’m certain of, is that you don’t know either. That’s my point…

I don’t see why you are so protective of this guy. A guy who molested 2 young children on 2 separate occasions should have his “confidentiality” protected? Sorry but this is laughable. Why do you care so much if the whole world knows of the atrocities he has committed? He should have “child molester” branded on his forehead as far as I’m concerned if it means parents will not leave their children alone with him.

Why should the comfort and “confidentiality” of a guy that assaulted 2 young girls come before protecting other children from him?

…And if you want to brand people without the available information, I can’t support you in that. I’m not protecting a ‘child molester,’ I’m saying that you don’t call the shots on someone’s confidentiality. You may call this laughable but saying it doesn’t make it so. Like I said, people have a right to confidentiality based on more criteria than your wishes.

 

[Primox]

Primox, perpetrators of crime have no right to expect confidentiality from their victims. The victims have a perfect right to tell anyone they wish, at any time, however many times they wish. Hopefully that will include police, CPS, etc.

But if someone commits a crime, they take away any right to privacy or confidentiality they have about the events, because they forcibly brought a second party into their sick world. It’s the victims’ experience too, not just the perpetrator’s. They are allowed to relate it.

Perhaps, perhaps not. It depends on much. I understand what you’re saying though.

 

[flyingfish]

This is the point I’m making. Ben doesn’t fit into any of these categories from which the samples were drawn. Recidivism rates mean nothing if the conclusions are generalized beyond the available data. Among high-risk offenders, recidivism rates increase over time (that’s right), but among low-risk offenders, offences tend to regress to the mean and dissipate over time. I don’t think Ben is a high-risk offender, but that’s just my opinion. What I’m certain of, is that you don’t know either. That’s my point…

You asked me to find studies, but it seems like you didn’t read the quotes. How about you provide some studies that support your claim that “among low-risk offenders, offences tend to regress to the mean and dissipate over time” and why you think Ben is one of these low-risk offenders.

Ben is already a repeat offender, we know that he assaulted two children at different times.

…And if you want to brand people without the available information, I can’t support you in that. I’m not protecting a ‘child molester,’ I’m saying that you don’t call the shots on someone’s confidentiality. You may call this laughable but saying it doesn’t make it so. Like I said, people have a right to confidentiality based on more criteria than your wishes.

We have information from the OP that he molested her and her sister. Do you think she is a liar? That she and her sister dreamt it up?

Of course I don’t call the shots here, but the OP does. Child molesters don’t have the right to keep their victims silent. And the OP and her sister may well decide to press charges.

You think they should just keep silent instead of trying to get justice for themselves and protect other children from Ben, so that Ben can lead a more comfortable life?

 

[Primox]

It`s an exhaustive effort having this conversation, let alone untwisting my words, so this will be my last post on it. What I said about recidivism can be found in:

Layton, R.I. (1986). Theory and treatment of child molestation. Journal of Consulting and Clinical Psychology, 54, 176-182.

Layton also says: ``A useful [system] involves the distinction between situational molesters, preference molesters, and child rapists. Situational molesters have a history of normal sexual development and interest; upon maturity, they are primarily interested in relationships with other adults and tend to abstain from sexual acts involving children"

A situational molester: sounds like Ben, right?

Anyway, my theme has never been “Protect this man!” My point is more along the lines of “It’s not your call.” In any event, let us agree to disagree. This is a lot of wasted time, effort, and bandwidth. God Bless you.

And God Bless you, Nicole. I hope all goes as it should. Again, my prayers

 

[former_Catholic]

dear people all,
please notice that nobody is suggesting she keep silent in this matter!
nobody is suggesting that she not contact the authorities!
nobody is suggesting that victims do not have the right to present their truth to the world!

The point Primox made was that the procedures of law and obedience to those procedures of law are absolutely vital. This is *not *for the protection of the guilty but so that innocent victims will not themselves be discredited!

 

[Primox]

True story.

 

[Urf]

For starters, you should see a therapist.

Next, you have every right to be mad at your parents. The way that they reacted to your telling them about what your cousin did was entirely inappropriate, and they did nothing that they should have, as parents, to protect their child.

Finally, and this will become clearer and less of a struggle when you see a therapist, you need to make it apparent to his fiance that this has happened, not only to you, but your sister as well when your cousin was NINETEEN. It would be simply cruel to allow that man to have children given his history of pedophilia.

 

[Tanner9188]

There is a horrible situation going on in my family and I need some advice. It’s a long story but I’ll try to make it short and coherent.

I am 19, and since I was young, I’ve had a weird childhood memory of one of my cousins, let’s call him Ben, (who is 11 years older than me) threatening me and touching me in a sexual way . I won’t get into details but I remember crying and him only stopping when his sisters came in the room and saw what was going on. Now I was really young when that happened, but for some reason I still remember very clearly everything that happened.

All of my life I never talked about it to anyone, because I was wondering if it had really happened or if I had imagined it. As a child, I wouldn’t even think about it twice except a few nightmares, but when I became a teenager I started to understand what had happened to me. I never told anyone about it though.

However, recently I had been thinking more and more about it and having more nightmares, because this cousin is getting married this summer so his name would come back often in conversations at home. One day I got so upset that my mother asked me what was wrong, and I told her: " I remember what Ben did to me". Her face looked like this: She asked me what I remembered, and I told her everything. She told me that I was 4 when it happened (so Ben was 15), that her and my father were travelling so I stayed at my aunt’s house, and that when they came back I told them that Ben had “touched my parts” and that when they confronted him about it he denied it, but my aunt and my uncle apologized for him. I was really angry to learn that all that time my parents knew about this and they never tried to talk to me about it, that I had to deal with this alone.

EDIT FOR SPACE

On that night we told our parents to come in the living room and my sister told them that it happened to her too. They just said: oh…really. I told them that I refused to go to Ben’s wedding, and they agreed. My sister isn’t going either.

Now I can’t stop thinking about this whole story, I really hate Ben. I know we are supposed to forgive, but this is so hard :crying: I had almost come to terms with what had happened to me, I was always friendly with Ben even though I disliked him. But now I know that

1. he lied when I told my parents what happened, and said that I invented it (as if a 4 year old would invent something like this)
2. 4 years later, as an adult, he did the same thing to my little sister

I am also really angry at my parents, for never telling me what happened, even though they had no idea whether I knew or not. Also, I can’t believe the fact that someone would do this to their daughter and not even admit it and they would keep inviting him at our house, to our birthday parties and all.

This summer he is getting married so we have family members coming from different countries, and it will be awkward when my sister and I won’t show up to the wedding. I also feel horrible for his fiancée, a wonderful girl that I get along with really well since they started dating 8 years ago. She probably has no idea about the things he did to his cousins. I don’t think I would have the courage to say something though, especially when they are getting married in less than a month.

I feel, angry, sad, humiliated and confused. I just don’t know what to do.

**I have known of similar and even worse; I mean by worse is that it was the fathers over a long period of time; the feeling for you and “them” are the same, so I don’t want you to think I have diminished you horrible experience. Feelings are feelings.

You may not realize it but you are already on the path to forgiveness by speaking out. You must heal yourself and mourn over you and your sisters experience and also the resentment you have toward your parents.

Forgiveness does not mean forgetting or the need to hang around someone either. What is does mean is that you will reach a point where you will not dwell on the past and move forward to the heavenly “prize” and trusting God to pull you though, which if you are His child, then you can count on His promises and He will not give you more than you can handle; although I’m sure you do not feel this now, but that is part of the healing process.

As far as your parents; I do not know them, but my guess is that they are broken over it and may not know how to respond; I don’t know. As a parent myself; I would feel as though I did not protect my children the way I should have and I would be very remorseful. Perhaps they feel that way, but don’t know how to express it and perhaps they were not aware of the degree of the situation either. At the age of 4 perhaps they were advised by someone they trusted not to talk further about it. I’m not making excuses for them; I’m just saying as a parent I would be devastated and may not know how to handle it; other than wanting to harm the offender.

When I go through tough times, which everyone will experience, not always to the degree you have I find comfort in the following from Romans:
Romans 8:28 “And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.” God says “ALL THINGS”; not some, but ALL. Even though Ben meant it for evil; God will turn it into good.

May God grant you His peace in Christ; not only and your sister, but to all who have experienced these tragedies. I pray He uses the experience to drawl you closer to Him and to give you the necessary strength; not only to overcome and focus on the things above, but to help others to do the same. In Christs Name I and others pray!**

 

[Norseman82]

Nicole, are you OK? I noticed that you haven’t posted in 5 days.

 

[Nicole777]

Nicole, are you OK? I noticed that you haven’t posted in 5 days.

Hey Norseman, yes I am ok, thanks for asking.

I haven’t heard anything from Ben or his fiancée yet, and his sisters have been asking my sister and I if we had already found our dresses for the wedding, so they probably haven’t told anyone that I talked to the priest.

Right now I’m trying to deal with the fact that my mother decided that she wants my sister and I to attend the wedding. I made it clear more than once that it wasn’t happening, but she keeps saying that *I *have a problem because I hold grudges, and that I shouldn’t make Ben’s family suffer (by missing the wedding) just because of what he did to my sister and I.

I’m trying to spend as much time as possible out of the house because of this situation.

 

[rayne89]

Hey Norseman, yes I am ok, thanks for asking.

I haven’t heard anything from Ben or his fiancée yet, and his sisters have been asking my sister and I if we had already found our dresses for the wedding, so they probably haven’t told anyone that I talked to the priest.

Right now I’m trying to deal with the fact that my mother decided that she wants my sister and I to attend the wedding. I made it clear more than once that it wasn’t happening, but she keeps saying that *I *have a problem because I hold grudges, and that I shouldn’t make Ben’s family suffer (by missing the wedding) just because of what he did to my sister and I.

I’m trying to spend as much time as possible out of the house because of this situation.

I am so sorry about how your parents are handling this. I will hold you and your sister in my prayers. Please don’t allow your mother’s inability to deal with the reality of the situation to force you and/or your sister into going to this wedding. Is there a trusted family member or family friend that can help you both get the right resources and point out to your parents how inappropriately they are handling this. You girls need support, and your parents are failing miserably.

 

[flyingfish]

Hey Norseman, yes I am ok, thanks for asking.

I haven’t heard anything from Ben or his fiancée yet, and his sisters have been asking my sister and I if we had already found our dresses for the wedding, so they probably haven’t told anyone that I talked to the priest.

Right now I’m trying to deal with the fact that my mother decided that she wants my sister and I to attend the wedding. I made it clear more than once that it wasn’t happening, but she keeps saying that *I *have a problem because I hold grudges, and that I shouldn’t make Ben’s family suffer (by missing the wedding) just because of what he did to my sister and I.

I’m trying to spend as much time as possible out of the house because of this situation.

I’m really sorry your mother is reacting this way. This is completely unacceptable. She is asking her own children to be in the same room as the man who molested them.

Have you thought of showing this thread to your parents, so that they see how virtually everyone else reacted?

What do you and your sister think of going to the police?