I can't join the catholic church

[tinalewis]

Steve C. - I will absolutely continue to pray for you and your wife. Anullment issues are so incredibly painful while we’re going through them. The only way to get through them is through prayer.

After I was allowed into the church almost a year ago, my husband was happy for me but I never thought he’d agree to enter RCIA. Very much to my surpise - he did and entered the church on Saturday night! We’re an old married couple and I was still amazed at how eagerly he swam the Tiber.

TamM - I will abolutely pray for you, too!

So my message to both Steve C. and TamM is: You never know what wonderful thing Jesus has in store for you - and it might be just around the corner. So hang in there!

 

[RHC]

TinaLewis and Quiet52,

This evening on a lengthy drive back home, I was listening to my ipod (reruns of the Journey Home program) and God planted an idea in my head that will hopefully make things work out in the long run. Taking up Quiet52’s suggestion about getting the annulment working through another diocese so as not to give her ex any idea where we live, it dawned on me that if, upon my wife seeing the truth of the Catholic faith as I’ve come to know it and agreeing that I have a legitimate case for conversion, if God will help me (and I know he will in his way) to find gainful employment so we can move to another address with a new phone #, then the applying through another diocese idea will work and protect my wife’s anonymity! So now I’m back to writing a paper she agreed to read word for word that will make the case. God help me in writing it clearly and succinctly, answering her questions and through his grace granting her a heart open to his revelations! Your prayers and the prayers of others have helped me find a path where previously I couldn’t see one. Thank you all ever so much. Now as I pray for you, please continue to pray for me and my wife that we may not waver in following the path God continues to show us.

Steve C.

Steve C.: I just wanted to let you know that I will remember you in my prayers, and I will say the Rosary for you. May God continue to light your path. You and your wife are in my prayers.

For the rest here who are dealing with annulment issues, I am praying that your situations will be resolved and you will be able to be in full communion with the Church. My dear friend has a similar situation, and it pains my heart to see how she aches because of it. I will be remembering you all in my prayers.

 

[quiet52]

Dear Steve,
I thank you for your prayers.
I have just read the last few posts and am very moved. I’m glad you’ve been inspired with new ideas! God works in interesting ways!
Stay hopeful, patient, joyful – and may both you and your wife rejoice in our Lord’s love and your love for each other.

 

[adelore]

Dear Steve,

I will keep you and your wife in my prayers. I will also be praying for the Church you are currently a Pastor at. I know it may seem hard to you right now…but truely the day will come when you Will get to stand up there and give a sermen to the people at your Luthern Church of why you are becoming Catholic. I pray the Lord will guide you when that day comes on what to say…for only the Lord knows how many will follow you into the Catholic Church.

Please keep in mind, just because you will one day be leavng he Luthern Church doesn’t mean it’s the end of your service to Our Lord…far from it. There are many many things that you as a Catholic may get into to be of service to Our Lord. And believe me, we need as many people that we can get. Our job of spreading the Truth to others is far from over.

For now may I suggest a website you might enjoy.
www.catholic-soe.org Catholic Society of Evangelists. They have tons of CD’s, Booklets, Books and such. Nothing over $1.00 donation.

Also the Christian Family Outreach has a website. www.christianfamilyoutreach.com They have a lot of booklets that are all free. You can even listen to them on line if you’d like.

May God Bless you and Guide you as you continue on.

P.S. Please let your wife know she is not alone. I do know what she is going through. It doesn’t matter how many years it’s been…but the one thing I did learn…not to let the Fear control me any longer. I had a great Counsler at Catholic Social Services. She’s in my prayers.

 

[adelore]

I’m definitely not giving up. Got some application forms in the mail and will get started on em this weekend. I’m so grateful for the people on this forum and the encouragement. I still don’t know about the cost, but I’ll cross that bridge when I get there. The woman from the tribunal did say it was about $2000, but that there are payment options. We’ll see what happens.

Wow! If it’s 2,000 dollars for one annulement, what would it be for the poor women who was married 4 times (divorced 3?)

 

[mlouise007]

Then I found out how much it can cost…I’m very very broke…and it will be over five years until I can even start to save for this…by the time I have the money I may not have any witnesses. .

Just to clarify a couple things- had your ex never been married before, his marriage to you was his first marriage? (If he was married to someone before his marriage to you then you two never had a sacramental marriage.)

Were you both validly baptized Christians at the time of your wedding? For the Church a valid baptism is defined as baptized with water “In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit”? (If either of you was not a validly baptized Christian at the time that also was not a sacramental marriage.)

I too am shocked at the fee they have stated. There certainly are costs but that is very high. I hope you will find the RCIA director pastoral in his/her responses to you. They have a lot of experience walking this path with people and it is a challenging path.
Blessings.

 

[denwiles]

I’d been going to mass for a few months, and RCIA for a month, when the pastor came to introduce himself to me. He asked if I was the girl who wanted an annullment. Proceeded to tell me it will take up to two years, and that I can’t join the church until it’s approved.(because I’m remarried). I was okay with that. Then I found out how much it can cost…I’m very very broke…and it will be over five years until I can even start to save for this…by the time I have the money I may not have any witnesses. Furthermore, it bothers me that the church makes money off this…do I get a tax receipt since they are a tax free organization? Did it not upset Jesus when he found people making money at his father’s temple?? I was young, depressed, and alone when I married him…the marriage was less than a year…my ex has been in hiding from multiple levels of government for years now…I’m sure it was never a valid marriage, as was the protestant minister who told me there was no hope after multiple counselling session between us…my husband didn’t want kids, he was addicted to porn, he supported himself with illegal activities…I knew none of this when I married him. It doesn’t seem fair that I can’t join God’s spiritual family on earth because I’m poor and made a huge mistake when I was 20 years old, over ten years ago. I’m hurting so badly, and feel so very lost. I’m not even sure if I should go to RCIA anymore, since it seems I’m wasting everyones time if I’m never going to be able to actually be a member of the Catholic Church.

My youngest is supposed to start at a Catholic school in september too…no longer sure about that either…if I can’t join the Catholic church because I married a psychopath ten years ago and can’t afford to fix it…maybe my kids shouldn’t be part of a religion that requires cash payments to atone for your mistakes. We are talking thousands of dollars, and I often have to borrow money just to buy our food. All I wanted was to live a good Christian life and be part of the Catholic family. I feel so lost now…no spiritual family in my future…don’t know what to do.

Listen to me very carfully sister. Salvation is a gift from God, that cannot be earned. Its a gift!!! Very Important that you get this one thing strait 2 Corithians 5:17 when we are saved we become a new creation in Christ. Adopted sons of God whereby we cry abba Father. Many work to try to become a Christian. You can’t swim to become a fish, but if your changed into a fish you swim because that is who you are. When you changed into a child of God you do works not to become a Christian, but that is who you are. So solo scripture or not the Bible is the main authority and no person or group can change that. Baptism, Sacrements, Priest, good works can not save you only your repetance and acceptance of Christ as Lord and Savior can save you. Then you will do works not be saved, but because that is the New saved you. We were all in a spiritual prision of death as humans, the wages of sin is death, so Jesus being the perfect sacrifice paid the debt in full on the Cross. Recieve the Pardon and your free as long as you keep you eyes on Jesus the Author and finisher of your faith. NOW THAT YOUR FREE ARE YOU GOING BACK INTO PRISION TO PAY THE REST OF YOUR DEBT? NO. The debt is paid. Don’t serve a Jesus who was not quite sufficent. Jesus the real Jesus, the Son of the Living God, The Messiah, God himself is most sufficent to pay all your debt and fully save you. Study Study Study The new Testament. You are the temple of the Holy Spirit-That means you are the church and a part of Christ. If somthing don’t feel right its not. Run from all wickedness and know whaen Satan reminds you of your past remind Him iof his future. Your past is gone forgiven under the Blood of Jesus. The Bible says if you confess your sins to Jesus he is fathful to forgive them. God Bless

 

[TamM]

Just to clarify a couple things- had your ex never been married before, his marriage to you was his first marriage? (If he was married to someone before his marriage to you then you two never had a sacramental marriage.)

If he was I don’t know about it.

Were you both validly baptized Christians at the time of your wedding? For the Church a valid baptism is defined as baptized with water “In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit”? (If either of you was not a validly baptized Christian at the time that also was not a sacramental marriage.)

Yes, but thanks for trying. I’m definitely responsible for trying to get an annullment.

I too am shocked at the fee they have stated. There certainly are costs but that is very high. I hope you will find the RCIA director pastoral in his/her responses to you. They have a lot of experience walking this path with people and it is a challenging path.
Blessings.

 

[Traditional_Ang]

thank you all for your responses, and yes, I was very frustrated in my OP. It’s disheartening. I appreciate the links that were provided, the priest didn’t mention anything about other options or financial assistance. I have a lot of thinking and soul searching to do.

I’ve tried a few times to start this process…I call the archdiocese, they transfer my call to the tribunal, I leave a message and no one calls me back. I told the priest this, and he nodded saying “I never know what they’re doing over there.” Perhaps I’ll feel better once I have some contact over there.

Tam:

I hear the frustration. I just wish your parish priest had had some empathy or at least some diplomacy…

The Church is a HOSPITAL FOR SINNERS! So, Hang in there!

Try calling the Archdiocese and letting them know that you’ve already left messages at the Tribunal and that no one has called you back. MAIL BOTH - Be polite and see what happens.

PM me with the results. OK?

Your Brother and Servant in Christ, Michael

 

[Traditional_Ang]

Dear Steve, you’re both in my prayers.

As for the seeming contradictions in faith, please continue to consult with a priest well-grounded in theology.

Re: your wife’s fear of retribution if she petitions for nullity – I talked with a woman here in the same situation. Her ex doesn’t know she lives in this state, and she doesn’t want him to know. I talked to the Tribunal office and was told that for her protection,she can petition in a diocese in a different state, and they can help her do that. She doesn’t have to contact her ex; she merely gives the Tribunal the contact information she has for her ex. The Tribunal in the different diocese would send him the respondent’s form; he does not need to know where she lives and in fact he isn’t required to respond for the process to proceed. Why don’t you call the Tribunal Office in the diocese in which you live, to see if they’d be willing to help your wife in this way.

Steve & Quiet:

If Steve’s wife’s fear of her ex-husband’s vindictiveness (esp. if she needed protection from him) turns out to be well-founded, that could turn out to be grounds for an Annulment. The only thing I could say is that Steve’s wife will be willing to file when she believes that she will be protected from her ex-husband.

This isn’t an issue of whether her ex is “past time for giving up vindictiveness”, but whether or not she is psychologically able to trust the Lord (and Steve) to protect her from this man. When she is, she’ll apply for the Annulment. This is all about how much faith Steve’s wife has in Steve’s ability to protect her.

I would suggest that Steve post this as a regular prayer request here.

Your Brother and Servant in Christ, Michael

 

[Traditional_Ang]

Originally Posted by mlouise007 forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif
*Just to clarify a couple things- had your ex never been married before, his marriage to you was his first marriage? (If he was married to someone before his marriage to you then you two never had a sacramental marriage.)

If he was I don’t know about it. *

Were you both validly baptized Christians at the time of your wedding? For the Church a valid baptism is defined as baptized with water “In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit”? (If either of you was not a validly baptized Christian at the time that also was not a sacramental marriage.)

Yes, but thanks for trying. I’m definitely responsible for trying to get an annullment.

I too am shocked at the fee they have stated. There certainly are costs but that is very high. I hope you will find the RCIA director pastoral in his/her responses to you. They have a lot of experience walking this path with people and it is a challenging path.
Blessings.

Tam:

From your answers to mlouise007, it sounds as if it’s time to let the Tribunal and your parish know that you need financial aid. As some here have posted, poverty is not supposed to be a bar to applying for an annulment, but it will be if you can’t ask for some help with the finances. I know you barely know these people, but, from what you’ve written, you don’t have much of an option…

First, check and see if the forms themselves have a place to request financial aid or to request help paying for this… Then, Talk to your pastor and the people at the Tribunal. There should be someone who can either waive or reduce the fee.

Please, don’t give up!

Your Brother and Servant in Christ, Michael

 

[DavidW]

Steve & Quiet:

If Steve’s wife’s fear of her ex-husband’s vindictiveness (esp. if she needed protection from him) turns out to be well-founded, that could turn out to be grounds for an Annulment.

A vindictive or angry spouse is not a recognized defect in the marriage recognized by the church.

The thread is getting a bit off track with this so decided I needed to chime back in on this.

There are 3 defects recognized by the church considered radical enough to nullify a marriage. Defects of form, Impediments to marriage, and defects of consent. Your petition for nullity needs to point at one of those and be made to fit.

Unless the vindictiveness manifested before the marriage, and resulted in a defect of consent, his/her vindictiveness is irrelevant to the null process.

 

[Traditional_Ang]

A vindictive or angry spouse is not a recognized defect in the marriage recognized by the church.

The thread is getting a bit off track with this so decided I needed to chime back in on this.

There are 3 defects recognized by the church considered radical enough to nullify a marriage. Defects of form, Impediments to marriage, and defects of consent. Your petition for nullity needs to point at one of those and be made to fit.

Unless the vindictiveness manifested before the marriage, and resulted in a defect of consent, his/her vindictiveness is irrelevant to the null process.

David:

My suspicion is that the vindictiveness probably did manifest itself before the marriage, but that Steve’s wife probably ignored the temper tantrums and the rest of the signs of spousal abuse “because she was in love” or she felt trapped. If you read Steve’s posts, you kind of get that feeling…

I might be wrong. I’ve been wrong before…

I’m sorry if I took the Thread off track, but I was hoping to encourage Steve and his wife to apply, as I think others were. If you think we shouldn’t have, I apologize.

Your Brother and Servant in Christ, Michael

 

[DavidW]

David:

My suspicion is that the vindictiveness probably did manifest itself before the marriage, but that Steve’s wife probably ignored the temper tantrums and the rest of the signs of spousal abuse “because she was in love” or she felt trapped. If you read Steve’s posts, you kind of get that feeling…

I might be wrong. I’ve been wrong before…

I’m sorry if I took the Thread off track, but I was hoping to encourage Steve and his wife to apply, as I think others were. If you think we shouldn’t have, I apologize.

Your Brother and Servant in Christ, Michael

No no, Michael, I wasn’t meaning to criticize or dump on you. This process is hard but it can be done with patience, humility, honesty and a lot of prayer.

I just meant to point out that you need to keep in mind what the church recognizes as a defect when you are working on your petition, pray over that, and see where you fit. I agree that if this guy is “vindictive” then that very well may point the way to an underlying defect in the relationship from the start. Usually controlling, vindictive sorts are manipulative from the start in relationships, or at least that is my experience.

I only mean his being angry - now - is irrelevant, and that folks must keep in mind that the petition has to point at defects that render the marriage null at the time of the marriage.

All best-

David

 

[Steve_C_1]

Michael and David,

Thanks for your help. I will try to post my concern as a regular prayer concern. I sense a little potential in my wife to be more open to me and God on this. Perhaps something is getting ready to happen. I don’t know.

David,

Can you explain the three defects in more detail?

The basic evidence that I have suspected might lead to an annulment was when my wife informed me, without me prodding her with a thought as to why I was interested in what she said - that prior to their getting married, she had asked him if he had any children to which he responded falsely “no” - when in fact he had had two children by another woman to whom he had not been married to. I was under the impression that this was getting married under false pretenses which might allow for a nullity decision. Is that right?

Steve C.

 

[DavidW]

David,

Can you explain the three defects in more detail?

…prior to their getting married, she had asked him if he had any children to which he responded falsely “no” - when in fact he had had two children by another woman to whom he had not been married to. I was under the impression that this was getting married under false pretenses which might allow for a nullity decision. Is that right?

Steve C.

Steve I’m pretty sure that constitutes a defect of consent. She couldn’t have agreed to be married to this man if he lied to her about something as fundamental as that because she was misled into the union.

You can read more on reasons for annulment here - home.earthlink.net/~rickpen16/catholicmarriages/id17.html - but information is pretty thin on the internet on this subject in my experience. I think that’s mostly because although there are some basic concepts about how this works it takes on its own personality in each Archdiocese because of the individuals involved there.

The place to get that answer is your parish sponsor for these cases. He/she is the one that deals with your Tribunal and they will know how they are handled locally.

I will tell you I am very confident such a case would be granted here in the Galveston/Houston Archdiocese assuming the process led them to believe those facts are true. You really have to just take a deep breath, get in touch with the parish sponsor, fill out the petition and trust that God’s Will will be done.

 

[Galilea]

Jesus, the Apostles, the martyrs and all the saints have had a calvary and a heavy cross. Hang in there for VICTORY awaits you. If you can look into Father Francis Solanus Caseys’s life, see if you can get the book. He himself had difficulties and trials within the church as he reached for his vocation and yet he was gifted with such beautuful graces and virtues.
God Bless!!!

 

[Tracy24]

Tam,
Archdiocese of Kingston by chance? If so I am definitely going to need aid since I’ll be needing an anullment before I remarry, no way I can come up with 2K.

My first marriage was a huge mistake, I was 19 and pregnant when I married and felt like I had no other choice. We were married at city hall by a Baptist minister so it would seem proper form was not followed. He informed me 3 years and 2 kids later that he was gay and wanted out of the marriage. I should also add that it was the first marriage for both of us and neither one of us were Baptized in any faith at the time we were married.
To further add to the complexity:
I have not seen or heard from my ex in over 10 years and I have no idea where he is, so if the tribunal is unable to contact him what happens?
All my witnesses are in Ohio where I am from and I am living in Canada, can they submit certified statements?

I am being received into the Church in July. I have not yet remarried and I am quite content to remain celibate until I can get an anullment through.

 

[mlouise007]

If so I am definitely going to need aid since I’ll be needing an anullment before I remarry, no way I can come up with 2K.

I should also add that it was the first marriage for both of us and neither one of us were Baptized in any faith at the time we were married.

Normally your RCIA director or your priest would have gone over this with someone seeking reception into the Church as you are. S/he can answer all these questions. S/he should have lots of experience with this.

I’m guessing you are applying for a dissolution of your marriage under the Pauline Privilege. "The Pauline Privilege is not a declaration of nullity (an “annulment”). A declaration of nullity is the finding that a marriage was merely putative and never existed at all; the … Pauline Privileges dissolve non-sacramental natural marriages…Marriages that take place between two unbaptized people or between a baptized and an unbaptized person are said to be non-sacramental “natural marriages” which do not bring forth sanctifying grace. Once one is sacramentally married, it is for life, but merely natural marriages, which are in and of themselves good, can sometimes be dissolved with what is known as the “Pauline Privilege” or the “Petrine Privilege…”

All my witnesses are in Ohio where I am from and I am living in Canada, can they submit certified statements?
…I am being received into the Church in July.

Congratualtions!

If it is the Pauline Privilege the information on your Diocese website says the fee is $300., $100 at the time of filing.

I strongly encourage you to go back to the RCIA team or the priest who is preparing you for reception in July with any questions you have so you can get accurate information about your specific situation, including the actual fees charged in your Diocese. I expect they have already been working on this with you so they know all the specifics of your situation.

Blessings- Marylouise

 

[mlouise007]

P.S.

I have not seen or heard from my ex in over 10 years and I have no idea where he is, so if the tribunal is unable to contact him what happens?

According to the website for your Diocese " Does my former spouse have to cooperate?" :
“…the Tribunal has a canonical obligation to contact the Respondent and invite him/her to present his/her “side” of the marriage to the Tribunal. A marriage nullity case may not proceed unless the Tribunal has the opportunity to contact the Respondent who alone decides whether to co-operate with the Tribunal or not. A marriage nullity case can proceed to conclusion without the Respondent’s involvement, but not without his/her having been contacted…”