I can't stand other Catholics

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mathematoons

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Before you ask the obvious question, I’m here to get answers for my questions about the faith.

Nearly all Catholics I meet are of the cafeteria variety. I can’t stand them. I was a liberal atheist once, and the less reverent forms of Catholicism are too much like what I left.

I have three choices. I can turn away from Catholics altogether. I can join a schismatic section that is more obedient to Church teaching. Or I can learn to like these people who turn away from God to keep up their cherished sins while calling themselves Catholic. I would like to meet another Catholic who loves God like I do, but that’s obviously not part of God’s will for me. I’m leaning toward the first choice and want to avoid the second. But I’m willing to do the third if I can. I’m just not sure I can.

Is it all right not to be part of the Catholic community if I still love God and my neighbor? (I’m working on loving my neighbor, but it’s really hard)

Any help would be appreciated.
 
mathematoons said:
Before you ask the obvious question, I’m here to get answers for my questions about the faith.

Nearly all Catholics I meet are of the cafeteria variety. I can’t stand them. I was a liberal atheist once, and the less reverent forms of Catholicism are too much like what I left.

I have three choices. I can turn away from Catholics altogether. I can join a schismatic section that is more obedient to Church teaching. Or I can learn to like these people who turn away from God to keep up their cherished sins while calling themselves Catholic. I would like to meet another Catholic who loves God like I do, but that’s obviously not part of God’s will for me. I’m leaning toward the first choice and want to avoid the second. But I’m willing to do the third if I can. I’m just not sure I can.

Is it all right not to be part of the Catholic community if I still love God and my neighbor? (I’m working on loving my neighbor, but it’s really hard)

Any help would be appreciated.
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Your struggle is with forgiveness. We are all fallible and we are all weak and make mistakes.

I find it a bit confusing and contradictory when you state that you love God as you do, but are more leaning toward turning away altogether as a first choice. And the third choice, meeting other like minded Catholics does not sound like an option for you. How can you love God and your neighbor, but at the same time not being a part of the Catholic community? Do you see the contradiction?

Are you being overly scrupulous about others?
 
Pray hard so that you may receive the grace in order to be able to love fellow, perhaps ignorant catholics.

Think of it this way, how do you think some of the very intelligent saints must have felt when they were around others who knew less? I’m guessing the ignorance doesn’t bother you, but rather the arrogant ignorance of other catholics. They may not be well versed, but they act like know-it-alls. Yes, we all know this type.

Think of your guardian angel. What do you think he thinks of your understanding of God compared to his own? Pray for temperance,humility, and a greater capacity to love. Then you can always pray for them, as well. Why not? 😃
 
Peter denied Our Lord three times on the night of His betrayal. Judas actually plotted to betray Him. All the remaining Apostles – the first bishops of the Catholic Church – fled as fast as they could to avoid being arrested with Him.

Yet they were Catholic and taught valid Catholic doctrine, even though they occasionally stumbled in their personal lives.

Would you be willing to go to Mass with them?
 
You tell me which is the greater sin:

Those who believe in God but only go through the motions of being a catholic?

Or

Being a catholic who is very devout but judges all of those around him?

If you want to convert people to the truest meaning of catholicism you have to start by acting like a saint, and that includes not judging those around you. Jesus did not hold the sins of man against us. Instead he exercised the perfect definition of forgiveness and love. I suggest you learn to LOVE THY NEIGHBOR and forgive their sins and what they may lack. Pray for them and their conversion. God will do his work and take care of the judging… that part isn’t your place.

God’s blessings,
Joshua
 
mathematoons said:
Before you ask the obvious question, I’m here to get answers for my questions about the faith.

Nearly all Catholics I meet are of the cafeteria variety. I can’t stand them. I was a liberal atheist once, and the less reverent forms of Catholicism are too much like what I left.

I have three choices. I can turn away from Catholics altogether. I can join a schismatic section that is more obedient to Church teaching. Or I can learn to like these people who turn away from God to keep up their cherished sins while calling themselves Catholic. I would like to meet another Catholic who loves God like I do, but that’s obviously not part of God’s will for me. I’m leaning toward the first choice and want to avoid the second. But I’m willing to do the third if I can. I’m just not sure I can.

Is it all right not to be part of the Catholic community if I still love God and my neighbor? (I’m working on loving my neighbor, but it’s really hard)

Any help would be appreciated.
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I feel your pain. I struggle with this too…

BUT we are called to love. Think of those lapse Catholics as your REAL brothers and sisters. They are your family. Your duty is to love them and to be a good example for them.

Your presence can teach them far more then your absence could.
 
Start going to daily mass; get to know the other people who attend everyday. You will find people who are happy, joyful, and very catholic.
 
mathematoons said:
I have three choices. I can turn away from Catholics altogether. I can join a schismatic section that is more obedient to Church teaching. Or I can learn to like these people who turn away from God to keep up their cherished sins while calling themselves Catholic. I.
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You have a 4th choice, spend time with the rest of us. You take a huge leap daring to reject the entire Church in the glory of her 2000 years of making Christ present on earth by rejecting Her due to the actions of a handful of her children.

You don’t even know all Catholics. How many do you know well enough to make such a global judgment about the state of their souls? not many. You do not know their sins, nor do you know the good in their hearts, So be very wary of claiming to have that knowledge, much less of acting on it.

And if you have not yet seen Jesus in the face of your fellow Catholics, start serving the poor, because you will surely see him there, and when you do, it will make it much easier to recognize him in the guise of the person in the pew next to you.
mathematoons said:
Is it all right not to be part of the Catholic community if I still love God and my neighbor? (I’m working on loving my neighbor, but it’s really hard)

Any help would be appreciated.
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no it is not, to reject the Church is to reject Christ himself.
 
puzzleannie said:
And*** if you have not yet seen Jesus in the face of your fellow Catholics, start serving the poor, because you will surely see him there***, and when you do, it will make it much easier to recognize him in the guise of the person in the pew next to you.
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[SIGN]AMEN[/SIGN]
 
puzzleannie said:
You have a 4th choice, spend time with the rest of us. You take a huge leap daring to reject the entire Church in the glory of her 2000 years of making Christ present on earth by rejecting Her due to the actions of a handful of her children.

You don’t even know all Catholics. How many do you know well enough to make such a global judgment about the state of their souls? not many. You do not know their sins, nor do you know the good in their hearts, So be very wary of claiming to have that knowledge, much less of acting on it.

And if you have not yet seen Jesus in the face of your fellow Catholics, start serving the poor, because you will surely see him there, and when you do, it will make it much easier to recognize him in the guise of the person in the pew next to you.

Originally Posted by mathematoons
Is it all right not to be part of the Catholic community if I still love God and my neighbor? (I’m working on loving my neighbor, but it’s really hard)

Any help would be appreciated.

no it is not, to reject the Church is to reject Christ himself.
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All very true, annie.
 
mathematoons said:
I have three choices. I can turn away from Catholics altogether. I can join a schismatic section that is more obedient to Church teaching. Or I can learn to like these people who turn away from God to keep up their cherished sins while calling themselves Catholic. I would like to meet another Catholic who loves God like I do, but that’s obviously not part of God’s will for me. I’m leaning toward the first choice and want to avoid the second. But I’m willing to do the third if I can. I’m just not sure I can…
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You have at least one other choice. That’s more Love. Possibly a spiritual director. Jesus said that if we loved Him we would follow His commands. One of them is to not judge. I’m reading a lot of Saint Francis these days, who wrote 28 “admonitions,” here’s one:
Chapter XI. That no one should be corrupted by the wickedness of another
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No thing ought to displease the servant of God except sin. • And in whatever manner another person would sin, even on account of this, the servant of God out of charity would not be upset or grow angry, (as one who) hoards up fault for himself (cf. Rm 2:5). • That servant of God, who does not grow angry nor disturbs himself on another’s behalf, lives rightly without anything of his own. • And blessed is he, who does not let anything remain for himself, rendering those things “which are Caesar’s to Caesar, and those which are God’s to God” (Mt 22)
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As someone who is at least 5 of the most judgmental folks around, let me say that what you are expressing is one of the Liar’s most effective tools. There are few things as powerful in Heaven as the conversion of an atheist and few things Satan hates more. Seperating you from your brothers and sisters, is a very effective first step to taking you back.

Confess this. I’m so very serious. Confess this and get some direction for dealing with these feelings. I try, as I am similarly afflicted, to remember what Saint Augustine, iirc, said:
“Believe others are better in their souls than you, even when you appear to be better than they.”
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As usual, I agree with puzzleannie. 🙂

What helps me is to remember the old adage: “There but for the grace of God go I.”

Most of us are just doing the best we can with what we’ve been given and what our personal experience has been.

Even most “cafeteria” Catholics aren’t willfully disobedient. Many of them have simply been told something incorrect at some point in the past and they don’t know any better. Rather than get mad at them, pray for them and seek to increase the catechetical opportunities that your parish offers.
 
mathematoons said:
Before you ask the obvious question, I’m here to get answers for my questions about the faith.

Nearly all Catholics I meet are of the cafeteria variety. I can’t stand them. I was a liberal atheist once, and the less reverent forms of Catholicism are too much like what I left.

I have three choices. I can turn away from Catholics altogether. I can join a schismatic section that is more obedient to Church teaching. Or I can learn to like these people who turn away from God to keep up their cherished sins while calling themselves Catholic. I would like to meet another Catholic who loves God like I do, but that’s obviously not part of God’s will for me. I’m leaning toward the first choice and want to avoid the second. But I’m willing to do the third if I can. I’m just not sure I can.

Is it all right not to be part of the Catholic community if I still love God and my neighbor? (I’m working on loving my neighbor, but it’s really hard)

Any help would be appreciated.
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Lol, I’m working on that, too.

People can tell when you disapprove. I’m guilty of finger-wagging myself, even when I know it turns a person right off.

You don’t know what anyone’s internat state is. Maybe these people need to see someone like you with a smile on his face and a cup of coffee in his hand.
 
mathematoons said:
I’m leaning toward the first choice and want to avoid the second. But I’m willing to do the third if I can. I’m just not sure I can.

(I’m working on lovingor, but it’s really hard)
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This is how it works: you probably can’t bring yourself to love them, but with God’s help you can achieve anything.
You should pray for that grace. Maybe this is your cross to carry - don’t run away from it but learn how to serve God as you strive towards perfection and overcoming this problem.

I used to be a cafeteria Catholic because I didn’t know any better. I now look back with horror and really don’t like to remember the bad old days. I completely understand how you feel about this issue because I can’t stand cafeteria catholics either. The way I deal with this is that I actively seek the company of those who are passionate about the faith and orthodox in their beliefs. It might take you a while to find a parish where you will find likeminded people. Don’t give up. Have you tried a Latin mass parish? It might be exactly what you are looking for.
 
A bit harsh, but let me say this as I had a Catholic Father and a Lutheran Mother who converted.

She would say the Catholics are the most righteous and yet the least likely to forgive.
 
It is very possible you are suffering one of the oldest and most basic sins of all time: pride. Don’t assume that they don’t love God as much as you do. Perhaps they love Him more, but are ignorant, or weren’t taught right. Perhaps they are just weaker than you. Perhaps if you really got to know one of these people deep down, in a close friendship, you would be surprised by the depth of their spirituality and feel bad about thinking about them this way. Perhaps a hundred different things.

It’s important to love our brothers and sisters, and not resent them. What did the Pharisees say when they saw Christ familiarizing himself with prostitutes and tax collectors? What are you saying now? What did Christ say in reply?

You have some really valid points…and the fact that you feel so strongly about this highlights your conviction and thirst for God and Godly things. This is good! But also make sure it doesn’t drive a wedge between yourself, God, His people, and His church. Let this zeal draw you closer to the church, with all her imperfections, and closer to God’s people -your brothers and sisters- and all their faults and weakness of faith. Help them if you can. Be an example to them. Maybe God gave you this conviction for a reason…and I’m pretty darn sure that reason is not so you can find cause to abandon His church, your family. 🙂

Take a note from St. Francis. When he started preaching, there was all kind of bad things happening in the church. Corruption, nepotism, greed… But he didn’t abandon, he resolved to stick to it and help. “Rebuild my Church,” Christ said to him in a vision. his actions are starkly contrasted with men like the followers of Luther, who saw faults with their faith family and abandoned it…creating divisions instead of improvement.

The church needs people of great faith and conviction to make it strong. Also, always keep in mind that the Church is equally a place for the sinner, the weak, and the fallen. If they don’t belong here…then where? Pray for them. We all have spiritual ups and downs. Some downs last longer than others. Always keep hope for them. God has forgiven your sins, so suffer them theirs! 🙂

It can be frustrating to see, but we are all sinners in different ways. Compassion and humility is the cure, I’d say. Good luck to you, and us all!
 
most righteous and yet the least likely to forgive

Two of the things Jesus really did not like.🙂
 
They probably don’t like your holier-than-thou judgemental attitude either.

I mean, really? You’re so superior to all the other Catholics that you’re ready to write them all off and go at it alone? Something tells me that you don’t see yourself very clearly.
 
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