I don't fear hell

[Bob_Crowley]

What a scary story. Do you think you were seeing your dad’s judgement? Did any of the predictions come true?

On your second question, I’ll give one example only, which was a personal prediction viz.
“You’ll meet a pastor. You’'ll think he’s great, but all he’ll do is discourage you even more!”

I met the pastor, one Rev. Robert Missenden, nearly 4 years later in late 1982. He died himself in January 1992, and is buried only about 70 or 80 metres from my father. I looked upon him as a spiritual father.

However sometime in 1991, not long before I left his church (I got married and moved away) he said to me in his office, “I owe you an apology… You needed encouragement, and all I’ve done is to discourage you even more!”.

Now I’d told him a number of times about this business of my father, and I think he always had doubts about where it came from. But then I pointed out he’d just quoted my father back to me almost word for word. That shook him, and he replied, “You really did see your father that night!”

And another of my father’s comments, “By the time you’ve finished, my name will be mud in heaven and on earth!” That sounded to me to be utterly ridiculous. But then in January 1979, the internet was in its infancy, and at that time I hadn’t even heard of it. Now of course, I can relate this story right around the earth, on this and other sites if I so choose. What people want to make of him is up to them of course.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

Yes, I think I was seeing his judgement. Most of the time he was looking over my head with either an expression of awe, or trying to hide his face behind his hands with a real look of despair or disgust. The way I see it he was looking at either a divine or angelic presence with awe, and at the times he was trying to hide his face, I think he was seeing some of his actions reflected in the light of divine holiness and couldn’t stand it.

Your story reminds me of something that happened to me a couple of years ago. I was at adoration and suddenly was aware of Christ’s presence in a way I never expereinced before. It was extremely strong and I couldn’t breathe or even look at the Blessed Sacrament. The most striking thing about it was how perfect and good he was, so above anything I’ve ever encountered in my life. But there was something else there too: he was so powerful and that scared me. I knew at that moment that when we are faced with him there will be no room for self justification or denial. We will be completely bare and vulnerable. We will be at his mercy. I will never forget this.

And yes, I fear hell although I am not neurotic about it. The reality of hell is enough to make me fear it. Being too confident in one’s faith and righteousness is a slippery slope. We shouldn’t live in fear but must be reminded of the four last things and never lose sight of that reality.

 

[Bob_Crowley]

Your story reminds me of something that happened to me a couple of years ago. I was at adoration and suddenly was aware of Christ’s presence in a way I never expereinced before. It was extremely strong and I couldn’t breathe or even look at the Blessed Sacrament. The most striking thing about it was how perfect and good he was, so above anything I’ve ever encountered in my life. But there was something else there too: he was so powerful and that scared me. I knew at that moment that when we are faced with him there will be no room for self justification or denial. We will be completely bare and vulnerable. We will be at his mercy. I will never forget this.

And yes, I fear hell although I am not neurotic about it. The reality of hell is enough to make me fear it. Being too confident in one’s faith and righteousness is a slippery slope. We shouldn’t live in fear but must be reminded of the four last things and never lose sight of that reality.

Off the topic a bit, but I remember a personal testimony given my an ex-homosexual when I was still attending my old Presbyterian church.

In Sydney, there’s a member of the NSW state parliament called Fred Nile (I think he’s still a member). I suppose he’s best known as a Christian moralist (a bit like Mary Whitehouse in the UK, but a bit more effective, although of course he gets rubbished). However he also helps people.

Anyway the ex-homosexual, who had been helped out of his former life style by one of Fred Nile’s outfits, claimed that at his second suicide bid, when he had everything lined up and ready to go, Christ materialised in the corner of the room, moved towards him and somehow merged. From that time on he never even had to struggle with the temptation of homosexuality, had married and had two kids. His wife and kids were in the congregation when he gave his testimony.

Yet in his own words, in Sydney which is the stamping ground of the Australian homosexual community he been “in everything going. You name it, and I did it.”, and used to stand on street corners in Kings Cross (Sydney’s red light district) discussing with other homosexuals how they’d like to kill Fred Nile.

He didn’t say anything about the power of Christ, but clearly there was a spiritual element involved. The reason for his second suicide attempt was that after he’d tried to commit suicide the first time, he had become Christian. But the bug was too strong and he “fell”. Hence the second suicide attempt, in despair at not being able to defeat the homosexual impulse.

That was when Christ literally took his place. And that was his story - not mine.

 

[Ahimsa]

Once you’ve been to hell, there’s no reason to fear it.

 

[Bob_Crowley]

Once you’ve been to hell, there’s no reason to fear it.

Then you haven’t been there.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

Once you’ve been to hell, there’s no reason to fear it.

Well, that’s not what Jesus said about it. Gnashing of teeth and all that. But I guess that reality is not a part of Buddhist fantasy of afterlife.

 

[purplesunshine]

Well, that’s not what Jesus said about it. Gnashing of teeth and all that. But I guess that reality is not a part of Buddhist fantasy of afterlife.

Or one can have been through a personal hell so great that to themselves and others worse is unfathomable. And I don’t doubt that it’s true.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

A few points though:

Thank you for the information. I’d reply with more of my usual verbosity, but I’ll explain below.

And yes, I fear hell although I am not neurotic about it. The reality of hell is enough to make me fear it. Being too confident in one’s faith and righteousness is a slippery slope. We shouldn’t live in fear but must be reminded of the four last things and never lose sight of that reality.

I can respect that, and I understand about being too confident in my own righteousness. I guess it’s kind of like, I’m trying to run the race to win, (like St. Paul says) and if my eye is on the clock and all I think of is fearing losing, I will not win. I don’t see what you’re saying as contrary to that.

And to Bob, what a terrible experience, and I hope you have found or are finding healing not just from that experience, but from the life experiences that led up to it.

To all posters here: thank you so much for participating in this thread. I will probably be monitoring it but may not post much if at all in the next few days, so take it where the Holy Spirit leads you to it. Right now I need to focus on my mother, and the last couple days of posting I have done has been kind of a “break.” For two months I’ve been with her, 700 miles from my wife and children, helping her recover from emergency cancer surgery. A week and a half ago her doctor gave her some bad news that she didn’t want to hear, and it’s messing with her mind – combined with grieving over my older brother who suddenly died in July at age 55, and the physical and emotional stress of her surgery recovery and now she cannot drive or live at home etc. Thank God it doesn’t appear there is any pathology, but a “normal” way that an 84 year old “processes” grieving and great stress – but she is not only forgetting things but is delusional and hallucinating – and I’m am VERY disappointed that her doctor has pretty much brushed me off since I asked for help a week ago, won’t give me any help whatsoever, and tells me the best thing is to just pack up a suitcase, put her in the car and get her to Wichita and get her new doctors there – give someone else the key to the house and let them worry about everything else. Well, we aren’t quite ready to where we can do that yet, and I do not want to take a hallucinating mother on a 700 mile road trip (but I guess I will) and by now a little of what they gave her when she had similar hallucinations in the hospital would have stopped them – but instead the doctor called me and lectured me about how what they gave her is addictive and blah blah blah and that she couldn’t keep responding to my information, but that she cares about Mom and will miss her. Yeah, if this was my doctor in Wichita he’d have consulted with a psychiatrist if necessary, and been on the phone when I first reported this to her nurse’s line at 1 pm last Friday, and had her a prescription called out or appointment with an outpatient psychiatrist STAT.

Thanks again for all the wonderful replies and support. I am feeling well mentally, and thank God my own psychotic symptoms have been completely absent for months now, and with safeguards in place and God-willing, will not return. Otherwise I would not have been able to do this. I don’t think Shakespeare could explain how wonderful it is to have a mind that works properly, to someone who’s never experienced one that hasn’t. And now for the first time in her life my mother’s mind is giving her trouble and her own doctor isn’t willing to help at all.

Sorry for dumping, but as you can see, this is very important and is much on my mind. And I feel very alone that the only doctors I know of who can help her make the trip is 700 miles away. Once in 1988 I was trying to get someone to the doctor who was hallucinating, and she literally jumped out of the car at a red light and ran into a hotel; I was just able to park, chase, and catch the elevator door before it closed. My mother isn’t physically capable and mentally is unlikely to do anything like that, but I did want to get her stabilized before the trip – I have zero doubt that doctor could have helped her a week ago with about two phone calls but has instead decided to actively ignore me, wasting precious time with my mother and her own precious time. I pity the doctor based on her actions even more than my mother for her condition, for what I imagine God may ask her when it comes time and if that doctor asked me for help answering the questions I’m afraid I don’t know what I could say in her defense.

So yeah, thanks again for all your wonderful posts on this thread. Meanwhile please pray for my mother, and all the wonderful people who have been greatly helpful to Mom and who will be taking care of her when we finally do get to Wichita. And please pray for me to do what is right and helpful, and to continue to be sensitive to the help and guidance by the Spirit which has gotten me through thus far. And also please pray for Mom’s “former” doctor who cannot possibly know what she has done, or I can’t imagine she would have done it.

Alan

 

[saveusfromhell]

praying for you alan. may God grant you the grace needed to continue in this trying time for you
God bless

 

[AlanFromWichita]

praying for you alan. may God grant you the grace needed to continue in this trying time for you
God bless

Thank you. I did get a couple emails out to people who might be able to find help, and got some other chores done, and Mom woke up a few minutes ago and so far seems very lucid; hopefully today will be a good day for her.

Alan

 

[Mijoy2]

You’ve been through a lot Alan, my prayers are with you and your family.

I do fear hell. One thing that troubles me is the concept that God can read my heart. I do not believe I can read my very own heart. For this reason, I fear hell. I do not believe, most of us, are truly capable of knowing our own motives.

In other words, I see the wrong in certain things and therefore refrain from entertaining them, or involing myself in them. But am I honestly, in my heart of hearts opposed to them, or is my finding them wrong a learned behavior? I cannot answer this question.

So when I meet the Lord, He may reveal to me the awful person I really am. He may reveal to me that my inner most motives for being “good” in and on various occasions, eminated from the wrong motive(s). I am incapable of judging htis for myself.

It’s easy for me to (for instance) not spend time viewing pornographic images. However, being a man, there certainly is a temptation to do so. I win the battle to fight this temptation. But I am not certain as to my motive for doing so. I see the harm it does society, I see the harm it does the marriage and I see the harm it does the individual. But are these reasons why I truly do not view porn? I cannot provide an honest answer to that.

On another note I believe the people who fear hell the least (not refering in any way to the people who posted in this thread) are the nominal catholics I know. They have no fear of hell. They live under the prosumption they and all thier friends and family will go straight to heaven.

I fear helll tremendoulsy, for others.

 

[AnneTeresa]

Maybe I’m some sort of spiritual sociopath, but I do not fear going to hell. Not at all. Nada. Zip.

I see so many threads about people who seem to live in constant fear of going to hell if they do this or that, or whether they have committed a mortal sin by thinking this or that and should they abstain from Communion or what if they die before they make it to confession, I feel terribly for them.

You know why? Because I feel like I am at perfect peace with God. Just as with my own parents, I don’t do things to offend them, but it is because I want to do what is right and good by them – not because I’m afraid they’ll punish me. When I was little I did get an occasional spanking, but that’s not why I avoided doing wrong. I avoided doing wrong because I wanted to be good, and when I was little, “good” was defined by what my parents said was good.

Oh, it’s true I’ve had my day where I delighted in wrong. But those days are past.

I even have a rough time saying the act of contrition, “because I dread the loss of heaven and the fear of hell” or whatever, and then “but MOST of all because You are all good and deserving of all my love.” Seems to me it’s almost backwards. Why not make the most important point first? It’s like dread and fear are the first things we should be thinking about.

Honestly, if I understand my Church teachings right, and I’m certainly not a theologian, one cannot just “accidentally” mortally sin anyway. It has to be calculated and intentional.

What did Jesus say when he appeared to a room full of scared people? “Fear not.” What did angels say when the appeared to people? “fear not”

So why fear?

So am I perfect? no.

Do I do wrong things, or things I later regret? Yes, occasionally.

Do I claim to totally agree with 100% of Church teachings? No, not if all I’ve been told the Church teaches are actually what she teaches.

But does that bother me? Yes and no. I try to learn, and sometimes what doesn’t make sense now makes sense later, but some things just don’t seem right – can’t come up with a good example right at the moment but if I hear one I’ll call it, and I’m not ashamed to question things.

Do I mortally sin? I don’t know. I don’t try to or want to, so maybe I don’t – at least not for a few decades since I was on my “wild” binge away from the church.

Do I look forward to heaven? Absolutely. In fact, even in difficult times (and I am having one of them now – nothing like some people’s but for me it’s a bit of a challenge) I feel so much peace – unconditional peace – in my heart, I can’t even imagine what it must be like in heaven. :heaven:

But do I fear going to hell? No. I do my best, and if that isn’t good enough and God sends me to hell, then at least I can take comfort in knowing that He sent His own Son there, too – at least for a while.

If this is blasphemous, I’m sorry, but it isn’t meant to be. I just feel so bad for people who live in constant spiritual fear and turmoil – and frankly the way I was brought up in Catholicism I used to lie awake in bed, fearing whether the devil was tempting me or whether I would go to hell – so I perfectly understand how so many people can be that way, fearing hell so much that they can’t live in peace on this earth. Not anymore, though. Honestly, it seemed that the God some of my grade school teachers tried to show me was an ogre, just waiting for us dear little children to mess up so He could punish us forever. I just don’t believe that anymore.

I think Jesus came to bring us true, unconditional, everlasting peace – not to increase our fear of hell or to make us paranoid of stepping on a crack at any given moment and losing our salvation. And I’d like to think I know how to receive that gift. And it is a gift, not something I’ve earned – but have always tried to be open to. I feel like I have received peace and joy and some of the other fruit of the spirit, even if through no merit (though much seeking) of my own.

Alan

:clapping:

 

[AlanFromWichita]

You’ve been through a lot Alan, my prayers are with you and your family.

Thank you. Mom’s cleaning crew is here now; I forgot they were coming. They can’t speak English anyway, so I’ll just stay out of their way and sit at the computer for a bit.

I do fear hell. One thing that troubles me is the concept that God can read my heart. I do not believe I can read my very own heart. For this reason, I fear hell. I do not believe, most of us, are truly capable of knowing our own motives.

In other words, I see the wrong in certain things and therefore refrain from entertaining them, or involing myself in them. But am I honestly, in my heart of hearts opposed to them, or is my finding them wrong a learned behavior? I cannot answer this question.

So when I meet the Lord, He may reveal to me the awful person I really am. He may reveal to me that my inner most motives for being “good” in and on various occasions, eminated from the wrong motive(s). I am incapable of judging htis for myself.

If I’m hearing you right, I “feel your pain” on this. I used to take Lenten observances lightly, and when I did them I didn’t tell anyone lest I be wearing “sackcloth and ashes” but this year I decided to do something very challenging and to “announce” it to others (seems like people generally enjoy hearing others’ Lenten observances) but first I though long and hard. I could think of any number of motives for both observing it, and announcing it. Ranging from honest desire for self-improvement and closeness to God, to letting others help hold me accountable, to self-aggrandizement, and more.

Then it occurred to me, that I cannot think of any time when I did good that could not have been explained, if not caused, by various motives. So if I help a person in trouble is it because I care about that person or because I want to feel good about myself or impress that person or others? Or do I help someone because I’m hoping it will eventually come back to me in one form or another? The Bible says to help people who cannot help me back, but I can still wish another would observe and help me, or that person’s situation would change and they would help me back.

Finally I realized that I can think of all sorts of selfish and selfless motives both for any act of good or avoidance of evil that I do. And if there are three motives, how can I know for sure which one is the “true” motive and the others are just “along for the ride” or if they are a combination of things. I made the decision that it is worth taking note of the motives that pop into my head, but if I tried to resolve them I could spend the rest of my life debating whether to do a single act of goodness and never get it done.

Here’s something that just occurred to me for the first time, as I was just rereading your post:

Once I read a book about the Holy Spirit and authority, and it pointed out something that I’ve seen is probably THE biggest issue I’ve seen in business with authority – that is, responsibility and authority must go hand-in-hand, or there is a problem. When a boss has authority but doesn’t take responsibility, nearly all of us have seen what happens. When a person has responsibility but no authority, they are basically a scapegoat and can do nothing to help.

Now, some time back I recognized it doesn’t pay to judge myself, for some of the reasons you cited. I really don’t know my heart the way God does, so just as I cannot “correctly” judge others by their actions, neither can I “correctly” judge myself by self-observation – I just have to rely on the mercy of the Lord and the saving power of the cross.

The new part is this – putting those two together, if I cannot honestly know what’s in my heart, but God does, and I am making an effort to do right by God, then really that’s about all I can do and really if I need changing, as long as I’m open to His messages that come to me from all around and all sources, then I trust God will do that changing. If I am not intentionally committing mortal sins, then I do not see how it could be in God’s “best interest” (at the risk of applying human reasoning to God) to make me and/or fail to mold me in a way that is displeasing to Him to the point where He will condemn me for all eternity. As Jesus said, “Father forgive them for they know not what they do.” Well, they knew they were killing a man. They knew, those in charge at least, that this man had done no wrong. But Jesus said, “forgive them for they know not what they do.” I’d like to think that when Jesus said that, he was thinking about you and me just as much as the people who called for His crucifixion and hammered the nails.
(continued in next post)

 

[AlanFromWichita]

(continued from last post)

It’s easy for me to (for instance) not spend time viewing pornographic images. However, being a man, there certainly is a temptation to do so. I win the battle to fight this temptation. But I am not certain as to my motive for doing so. I see the harm it does society, I see the harm it does the marriage and I see the harm it does the individual. But are these reasons why I truly do not view porn? I cannot provide an honest answer to that.

I fully agree with you. We were designed, in our biology, by God, evolution, or whatever, to be attracted to the sight of members of the opposite sex. Why is it OK to say “that’s a beautiful flower” or “a cute dog” but not “there is an attractive woman.” Now I’m not going to make the distinction between “viewing porn” and “taking notice of an attractive lady” because I see those things in a loosely similar way. After many years of a very happy marriage, I’m glad to say that I no longer am troubled by the urges I had a few decades ago (and sadly, before marriage, acted upon) but my eyes still work, and I’m trying to get to the point where I am not ashamed because I see something.

LOL. Remember the flap about 15 years ago about lawsuits involving “ogling” women? I think it became a big deal when construction workers were calling out to business women passing by, and then they tried to pass anti-ogling laws. I remember they were grappling with questions such as if you looked at a woman for more than 5 seconds that became “ogling” and the like, or maybe three seconds, or six? Or that if you say, “that’s a nice dress” it would be OK but to say “you look nice today” was not. That’s why I’m glad the only True judge is God. Like Jesus said, you cannot judge correctly by outward observances.

On another note I believe the people who fear hell the least (not refering in any way to the people who posted in this thread) are the nominal catholics I know. They have no fear of hell. They live under the prosumption they and all thier friends and family will go straight to heaven.

I fear helll tremendoulsy, for others.

You make a good point. I hadn’t really thought about that recently, as I am so often referred to as a “nominal” or “cafeteria” or “bad” Catholic it hadn’t occurred to me there were people who might be worse off than me. I will say a prayer for them now.

I like the way you write. You seem genuinely concerned about others. I’d say if God is displeased with you, then He probably is displeased with me as well. :grouphug:

The cleaning crew is now gone. I think I’ll say a prayer of thanksgiving for that.

Anyway, Mom is up now so I’d better get back to her.

To those of you who’ve endured my blather in this post this far, thanks for listening. :tiphat:

Alan

 

[Trishie]

Alan, praying for your mother and you and for your family.
I read your post regarding what you, and your mother, are going through with concern.
Warm regards,
Trishie

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Alan, praying for your mother and you and for your family.
I read your post regarding what you, and your mother, are going through with concern.
Warm regards,
Trishie

Thank you, Trishie.

So far today has been peaceful; she slept late, and has had no symptoms. I’ve decided not to bring up “difficult” topics such as preparing to travel, at least for today – she did get dressed up, though, so I’m going to try to talk her into a significant outing to try out the new “transport chair” I got her. Maybe this day can give her a chance to heal a bit.

Meanwhile I have another card up my sleeve – she has a cardiologist appointment Monday, who works in an office in the same hospital Mom was in when they gave her medicine for similar symptoms, and it helped. I think I’ll “slip” a one-page summary of the situation, along with my power of attorney copy, to the receptionist when we check in – we’ll see if they can hook her up. I’d like to get her treated before we travel, not after, although I am getting the “ducks” lined up at that end for treatment asap when we get there.

Get this. It (the transport chair) would have been $140 at Walgreens, but the same model was $110 on the web, so I ordered it on web for “web pickup” and picked it up two hours later at the same store for $110! (It pays to check!) Hey, I just looked and the web sale is off. The web price is now $160! I guess it’s all in the timing!

Alan

 

[Samson01]

Thank you, Trishie.

So far today has been peaceful; she slept late, and has had no symptoms. I’ve decided not to bring up “difficult” topics such as preparing to travel, at least for today – she did get dressed up, though, so I’m going to try to talk her into a significant outing to try out the new “transport chair” I got her. Maybe this day can give her a chance to heal a bit.

Meanwhile I have another card up my sleeve – she has a cardiologist appointment Monday, who works in an office in the same hospital Mom was in when they gave her medicine for similar symptoms, and it helped. I think I’ll “slip” a one-page summary of the situation, along with my power of attorney copy, to the receptionist when we check in – we’ll see if they can hook her up. I’d like to get her treated before we travel, not after, although I am getting the “ducks” lined up at that end for treatment asap when we get there.

Get this. It (the transport chair) would have been $140 at Walgreens, but the same model was $110 on the web, so I ordered it on web for “web pickup” and picked it up two hours later at the same store for $110! (It pays to check!) Hey, I just looked and the web sale is off. The web price is now $160! I guess it’s all in the timing!

Alan

Hoping the best for your situation. Another thing, check out retailmenot.com for coupon codes to use when ordering things for in store pickup…

As for fear of hell, yes, that fear has even crept into my dreams. One priest said I may be a witness to such. Kind of sux. Samson

 

[Hail_Linus]

Hi Alan:

I hope you do not mind but I will give my advice.

But first Let me get this error out of the:

But do I fear going to hell? No. I do my best, and if that isn’t good enough and God sends me to hell, then at least I can take comfort in knowing that He sent His own Son there, too – at least for a while.

All though it gets interpreted as hell sometimes, Jesus did not descend to hell, he descended to the place of the dead.

Now on to my advice:

I, like you do not really concern, myself with hell. If I go there then I deserve it.

My problem with your line of thinking is your contentment with your sate of being. Those who are humble will be exalted.

You should try to be a better Christian everyday simply because it makes you more free to Love God and others. You should want to be closer to perfection everyday while knowing you will never be perfect.

It really is important to be humble and I will give you a non-religious example. Look at musicians. The early part of their careers are usually their best work. They usually get to the point where they feel they no longer have to prove themselves and as a result their work suffers. They end up just being competent instead a breaking new ground.

So, my advice is basically do not be content with the Christian you are today, you can and should try to be a better Christian. This has nothing to do about worrying about going to hell.

 

[kubark]

Maybe I’m some sort of spiritual sociopath, but I do not fear going to hell. Not at all. Nada. Zip.

I am reminded of what Fulton Sheen once said regarding hell:

“When the egotist is given over to a reprobate mind and left alone, the Lord allows him the desire of his heart. He gets exactly what he wants - and yet he hates himself for wanting it. The sense of despair which the egotist feels is the beginning of his hell. So long as the egotist felt the tension between what he was doing and the feeling that it was wrong, there was hope. But when the tension has ceased, God seems, at least for the moment, to have left him alone, as he wished. But in truth God never abandons him until his final rejection of grace at death. The egoist in his false peace may flatly boast he has quite “outgrown” the thoughts of God and judgment and religion and that he will now enjoy his freedom. With this decision, he enters into that stage of evil of which Nietzsche boasted: ‘Evil, be thou my good.’ If he feels frustration, boredom, and despair, he refuses to see these things as the result of having already drunk too deeply from the cup of sin, but seeks to cure them by drinking its dregs. He may acknowledge his boredom - but he fancies that a greater boldness in evil will stimulate his interest in life. As time goes on, the heart of such an egotist becomes more callous, and the tender sensitiveness of his soul is dulled. Faults multiply to a point where, having ceased to fight against evil, he now begins to fight against God. Such is the psychological explanation of atheism in the modern world. For the new atheism is not like the old, theoretical atheism, which prided itself on being intellectually compounded of a little science, anthropology, and comparative religion. The new atheism is not of the intellect, but of the will; it is an act of free and eager rejection of morality and its demands. It starts with an affirmation of the self and the denial of the Moral Law. The new atheist does not ‘know there is no God,’ as he tells us. There is no one in the whole world who knows there is no God; but the modern atheist wishes there were no God…The fires of hell will be enkindled from within the self. The unhappiness, the misery, the self-torture that the egotist feels is already a self-burning; hell may be described as a place where the ego eternally burns in its own solitude…There is only one thing that the egotists have in common with one another in hell, and that is the hatred that they bear for one another. This hatred will be intensified there, because each egotist will see in the other that which he hates within himself…Love either cherishes or consumes; it draws us to heaven, or (if we flee from it) it delivers us to hell. For hell is not an experience that begins in the next life; it continues there, but it begins on earth. The despairing and the bored have already had their first knowledge of hell in the final stage of egotism enthroned.”

 

[Miriam1947]

I am reminded of what Fulton Sheen once said regarding hell:

"When the egotist is given over to a reprobate mind and left alone, the Lord allows him the desire of his heart. He gets exactly what he wants - and yet he hates himself for wanting it. The sense of despair which the egotist feels is the beginning of his hell. So long as the egotist felt the tension between what he was doing and the feeling that it was wrong, there was hope. But when the tension has ceased, God seems, at least for the moment, to have left him alone, as he wished.

But in truth God never abandons him until his final rejection of grace at death. The egoist in his false peace may flatly boast he has quite “outgrown” the thoughts of God and judgment and religion and that he will now enjoy his freedom. With this decision, he enters into that stage of evil of which Nietzsche boasted: ‘Evil, be thou my good.’ If he feels frustration, boredom, and despair, he refuses to see these things as the result of having already drunk too deeply from the cup of sin, but seeks to cure them by drinking its dregs.

He may acknowledge his boredom - but he fancies that a greater boldness in evil will stimulate his interest in life. As time goes on, the heart of such an egotist becomes more callous, and the tender sensitiveness of his soul is dulled. Faults multiply to a point where, having ceased to fight against evil, he now begins to fight against God.

Such is the psychological explanation of atheism in the modern world. For the new atheism is not like the old, theoretical atheism, which prided itself on being intellectually compounded of a little science, anthropology, and comparative religion. The new atheism is not of the intellect, but of the will; it is an act of free and eager rejection of morality and its demands. It starts with an affirmation of the self and the denial of the Moral Law. The new atheist does not ‘know there is no God,’ as he tells us.

There is no one in the whole world who knows there is no God; but the modern atheist wishes there were no God…The fires of hell will be enkindled from within the self. The unhappiness, the misery, the self-torture that the egotist feels is already a self-burning; hell may be described as a place where the ego eternally burns in its own solitude…There is only one thing that the egotists have in common with one another in hell, and that is the hatred that they bear for one another.

This hatred will be intensified there, because each egotist will see in the other that which he hates within himself…Love either cherishes or consumes; it draws us to heaven, or (if we flee from it) it delivers us to hell. For hell is not an experience that begins in the next life; it continues there, but it begins on earth. The despairing and the bored have already had their first knowledge of hell in the final stage of egotism enthroned."

Could we have a paragraph or two, perhaps three or more? It would make reading ever so much easier.