I don't know if I can stand this anymore - mi kids

[minkymurph]

I have started this thread because I need help living with an alcoholic.

I am expecting some to say leave your husband, and I can understand why. I have chosen not to do that which I will explain. What I want, is anyone who can give me help in terms of managing a relationship with an alcoholic.

I am Catholic, my husband is not. I was not a Catholic when I married him and he agreed to bringing my children up Catholic and sending them to a Catholic school. I say this to show he is not completely unreasonable, to show he has confidence in me as their mother, but we do not sing from the same hymn sheet.

If I did not have kids, I think I would leave him. I stay because a while ago my eldest son, who is 11, begged me not to divorce. He loves his dad, he is a daddies boy. My youngest son is mom’s boy, but he is autistic and would not handle a big change well. My kids love their dad, I have no doubt he loves them, but I am sick of the way he treats me. Nothing is ever right. He has to have his plate warmed for his dinner or there is a complaint, his dinner has to be exactly how he likes it or there are complaints, when he makes dinner he doesn’t do any of this. I can eat nothing I like because he hates herbs and spices and even if I make another dinner for myself he complains about the smell. If the kids have garlic bread he complains about the smell. He expects me to have my mobile with me all the time so he can tell me to do things, he tells me I am fat, lazy, and do nothing but play computer games. I am a law student and I do all the housework.

He thinks he pays for everything. He does not. I pay for food, the kids clothes, uniforms, their lessons at school - football and music, school trips, birthdays. It was my sons birthday today and he gave me no money to take him out or for the party. I had to fight with him to get half the money for his birthday present, and am fighting with him to get money for their Christmas presents. He pays the mortgage which will be paid out in January, and our cars. He screams about leaving lights on and I pay for the electric and now, we have got gas and he wants me to contribute to that and heating. He now says I use the oven too often as it cost £20 a week for gas. (We have a gas cooker) He has told me I waste money getting my hair done, I waste money on the kids and if I lost weight, I wouldn’t need new clothes. He moans and complains about everything all the time.

I think my kids will grow up to hate him. My father was an alcoholic and when I was young, I was desperate for him to love me. When I got into my teens I hated him. I can see things going the same way. I did leave him for a while and we got on great. When I came back, things were awful. It was like he was just being nice to get me back. When I left him I still had to pay all the bills, do his shopping, washing, make his dinner and I feel a fool I did this. I did it because I didn’t want to alienate my kids from him. I also think leaving him did not make any difference as he has a right to see his kids and things would be no different if I left him.

What do I do? I have built a life outside the home in that I am doing a law degree at university and I hope to get a good job and will not need him financially. I try to ignore his tantrums and not fight with him but it is so hard because I feel I must defend my kids when he is being mean to them - calling my autistic son stupid and a fairy because of the way he behaves, and being mean to me and my eldest son for no reason. I am not looking for anyone to come up with a magical solution. If anyone knows how to live with an alcoholic, how to I deal with such a person, I would really appreciate your help.

 

[EasterJoy]

Let us recall Step One in AA and Al-Anon:

"We admitted we were powerless over our addiction - that our lives had become unmanageable ".

Someone who is abusing alcohol or drugs is not manageable. They cannot manage their own lives, and no one else can manage their lives for them. It simply cannot be done. Millions of lives have been ruined out of refusal to concede this truth. You don’t have to start a 12-Step program for co-dependents, you don’t have to leave your husband, but you do have to live with that truth. Even if you choose to ignore it, you’re going to have to live with it. It is an inescapable reality.

Get yourself a good professional counsellor. Plan to eventually take your sons to family counselling with you, preferably sooner rather than later. Expect to make a plan with them for getting your lives back. It is inevitably going to include learning to and resolving to draw boundaries with your husband. Whether he can live with those boundaries remains to be seen; it will be his choice. If you don’t ever draw boundaries with him and defend those boundaries, though, you will never have a manageable life.

The rest I could write is more of the same or above my pay grade.

 

[Xantippe]

This is a minor point compared to the alcoholism, but I have to point out that the sensitivity and demands of your husband resemble autism spectrum features that you may be familiar with from your autistic son. Everything has to be just so, everything smells or tastes too strong, etc.

The alcoholism is much more important as something to deal with, but I thought it might be helpful for you to see the connection between your husband’s being high-maintenance and your son’s autism.

 

[Xantippe]

“I had to fight with him to get half the money for his birthday present, and am fighting with him to get money for their Christmas presents.”

That sort of thing must be very hurtful for your kids to hear.

 

[minkymurph]

Let us recall Step One in AA and Al-Anon:

"We admitted we were powerless over our addiction - that our lives had become unmanageable ".

Someone who is abusing alcohol or drugs is not manageable. They cannot manage their own lives, and no one else can manage their lives for them. It simply cannot be done. Millions of lives have been ruined out of refusal to concede this truth. You don’t have to start a 12-Step program for co-dependents, you don’t have to leave your husband, but you do have to live with that truth. Even if you choose to ignore it, you’re going to have to live with it. It is an inescapable reality.

Get yourself a good professional counsellor. Plan to eventually take your sons to family counselling with you, preferably sooner rather than later. Expect to make a plan with them for getting your lives back. It is inevitably going to include learning to and resolving to draw boundaries with your husband. Whether he can live with those boundaries remains to be seen; it will be his choice. If you don’t ever draw boundaries with him and defend those boundaries, though, you will never have a manageable life.

The rest I could write is more of the same or above my pay grade.

It hurts to tell my kids what their dad is. My younger son, who is autistic, would at presents not understand it. My older son, 11, does. He makes all these excuses for his dad which is so worrying. He tells me he feels sorry for me. I appreciate him saying it but I am not a victim. I stay with my husband because I choose to. Not because I have no choice. I am also more than capable of standing up to him. It just doesn’t seem to make any difference to how he behaves. I don’t care for me, I can brush off what he says and I will NOT be a victim. I will not be put down and feel bad because of him. Sometimes I am but my better judgement kicks in. It hurts what he says but I’ve learned not to listen. It worries me for my kids. I want to do the right thing by them. What will it do to them if I stay? Would it make any difference if I leave? I’ m convinced it would.

 

[minkymurph]

Let us recall Step One in AA and Al-Anon:

"We admitted we were powerless over our addiction - that our lives had become unmanageable ".

Someone who is abusing alcohol or drugs is not manageable. They cannot manage their own lives, and no one else can manage their lives for them. It simply cannot be done. Millions of lives have been ruined out of refusal to concede this truth. You don’t have to start a 12-Step program for co-dependents, you don’t have to leave your husband, but you do have to live with that truth. Even if you choose to ignore it, you’re going to have to live with it. It is an inescapable reality.

Get yourself a good professional counsellor. Plan to eventually take your sons to family counselling with you, preferably sooner rather than later. Expect to make a plan with them for getting your lives back. It is inevitably going to include learning to and resolving to draw boundaries with your husband. Whether he can live with those boundaries remains to be seen; it will be his choice. If you don’t ever draw boundaries with him and defend those boundaries, though, you will never have a manageable life.

The rest I could write is more of the same or above my pay grade.

I would draw boundaries. I do it all the time. I will tell him when he has overstepped the mark. I don’t nag him about drinking anymore, but when he expects me to back him up when he is being mean, no. I tell him so. I tell him if that’s the way you choose to be fine, just don’t expect me to tell you it’s ok.

 

[1ke]

The right thing for your children is to give them a home free from abuse, and limited exposure to their alcoholic, bully of a father.

I really suggest you get some counseling from a professional as well as join Al-Anon because I do not think you are seeing clearly at all.

 

[katy]

Yes, if you have Al-anon in Ireland, go there. I’m sure you are doing the best you can. No one can tell you what to do, because of course you are the only one who knows the total situation. However, in my family of alcoholic descent, there are no instances of living successfully with an alcoholic. My mother, rest her soul, would not allow a drop of alcohol in the house because of what she saw with her mother’s alcoholic grandparents and the wounds it caused her mother.

 

[minkymurph]

The right thing for your children is to give them a home free from abuse, and limited exposure to their alcoholic, bully of a father.

I really suggest you get some counseling from a professional as well as join Al-Anon because I do not think you are seeing clearly at all.

I mean this in the best possible way because I value your opinion. Why do you think I am not seeing clearly?

I did contact a helpline for people who live with alcoholics. They said, your husband is not going to stop drinking, you need to choose whether to stay and put up with it or leave. It’s your choice an no one can make that choice but you. OK, she may have been right in that you have only two choices, leave or stay and put up with it. What she did not say is how leaving would have improved things, and how I could manage things if I chose to stay.

I’m not asking anyone to make my choice for me. I wouldn’t do that. What I will say is would it make any difference if I get councelling if they are just going to tell me to leave or stay and put up with it? I’m not convinced leaving would free them as their father would have access. The reason I don’t leave is my eldest son is begging me not to. He prefers we are together. So hard.

 

[1ke]

I mean this in the best possible way because I value your opinion. Why do you think I am not seeing clearly?

• You grew up in an alcoholic household.
• You married an alcoholic.
• And yet you refuse to remove your children from this destructive daily influence where they are verbally abused by their father, where they are learning how men treat women from their father, and where they are daily at risk of becoming like their father.

That, IMHO, is not thinking clearly.

 

[1ke]

I’m not convinced leaving would free them as their father would have access.

I would legally limit that as much as humanly possible. Supervised visits. Young children should not be alone, unsupervised with an alcholic.

The reason I don’t leave is my eldest son is begging me not to. He prefers we are together. So hard.

Yes, it is hard. And, certainly he prefers that. But, that cannot be your overriding consideration. Daily verbal and emotional abuse from their father is not what your child needs.

 

[1ke]

And please know that I am not unsympathetic to your plight. I grew up in an alcoholic situation. There has to be someone who stands up and says “this is not how people behave” and does something about it. Else your boys will become the next generation of alcoholic or marry one. Seriously, the probability is quite high. They should also be in counseling to deal with the fact that their father is sick.

It doesn’t mean that they love their father less, or that you love your husband less, but that boundaries are important and until daddy gets better (if ever) we have to have some boundaries.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I mean this in the best possible way because I value your opinion. Why do you think I am not seeing clearly?

I did contact a helpline for people who live with alcoholics. They said, your husband is not going to stop drinking, you need to choose whether to stay and put up with it or leave. It’s your choice an no one can make that choice but you. OK, she may have been right in that you have only two choices, leave or stay and put up with it. What she did not say is how leaving would have improved things, and how I could manage things if I chose to stay.

I’m not asking anyone to make my choice for me. I wouldn’t do that. What I will say is would it make any difference if I get councelling if they are just going to tell me to leave or stay and put up with it? I’m not convinced leaving would free them as their father would have access. The reason I don’t leave is my eldest son is begging me not to. He prefers we are together. So hard.

Get yourself to an Al-Anon meeting.

Meeting Locations

You will get support, and you will hear your story being told by other people. Go as soon as possible. There is also Alateen, for your older kids - probably the bottom limit is 11 but it’s easier when they are at least 13. Alcoholism is a FAMILY disease - every one of your kids has been affected. Give them the option of talking to others who also understand.

 

[Mrs_Sally]

Your son wants you to stay but he is only 11. He cannot see what things will be like down the road. You know what your own life was like, is that what you want for your sons? As you son grows older he might learn to resent his father more and they could get into dangerous fights. Or he could become like his father. What will you do in say 5 years if you find your son drinking?

I recommend counseling also. You may be best off living separately from you husband. That might be what he needs to decide to sober up.

 

[minkymurph]

• You grew up in an alcoholic household.
• You married an alcoholic.
• And yet you refuse to remove your children from this destructive daily influence where they are verbally abused by their father, where they are learning how men treat women from their father, and where they are daily at risk of becoming like their father.

That, IMHO, is not thinking clearly.

Are you saying I should leave my husband?

I would not say it’s a case of refusing to leave him, so much as a case of not knowing how to. At the moment, I don’t see how leaving would make any difference. If I left, he would still have access to them. They would not have contact with him daily, but he would maybe get them at weekends or something, and I would have a court battle to limit when he sees them. If I left, he would see them and I would not be there. Would that be best for my kids? Or is it better he sees them when I am there as I can curtail things more that way? The reason I say this is because I’m no convinced leaving would change anything. Not because I’m not prepared to.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Leave.

In choosing to stay with an abuser and have your children there too you are allowing them to be abused. You may not be doing it yourself but you enabling someone to hurt your children. You have to be strong enough to protect them from their father. If you aren’t then you too are responsible for the harm being done to them.

 

[minkymurph]

Your son wants you to stay but he is only 11. He cannot see what things will be like down the road. You know what your own life was like, is that what you want for your sons? As you son grows older he might learn to resent his father more and they could get into dangerous fights. Or he could become like his father. What will you do in say 5 years if you find your son drinking?

I recommend counseling also. You may be best off living separately from you husband. That might be what he needs to decide to sober up.

I did leave him and things changed, but when I came back it was the same.

 

[minkymurph]

Leave.

In choosing to stay with an abuser and have your children there too you are allowing them to be abused. You may not be doing it yourself but you enabling someone to hurt your children. You have to be strong enough to protect them from their father. If you aren’t then you too are responsible for the harm being done to them.

I understand what you are saying. If I was talking to someone else I would say leave.

I’m not convinced leaving him would stop him hurting them as he would still have access. I am currently at uni studying for a law degree and I have thought I could stick it out until I can get a decent job and earn enough money without needing his financial support. I currently live on welfare.

 

[faithfully]

You may not see yourself as a victim. And you do have 2 choices. Stay or Go.

Your children, however, are victims…Of an alcoholic man who is only teaching them to be abusive to women. And of a mother who does not look after their best interest. And is it never in the best interest of a child to live with an alcoholic. Especially one who is verbally abusive.

They will do the same. They will not learn their father’s behavior is unacceptable. They are at higher risk of becoming alcoholics as well. It will be the coping skill they learn.They will also likely grow to have no respect for you. You don’t demand it from your husband. You clearly do not think you’re worthy. You may not be able to make him quit drinking. You teach your children that women/mothers are not worthy of a man that treats her well. That children are not worthy of a father who is sober.

Your husband may or may not get sober. He clearly has no reason to. I wouldn’t suggest divorce. I would leave/seperate, and let him know you will let him back in when he is sober. Until then, clearly the booze is more important. He could then have 2 choices. Either clean up his act. Or decide that booze is more important than his family and let his family live in peace.

You can teach your children their father has a disease, that he has not learned to control.

 

[minkymurph]

Your children, however, are victims…Of an alcoholic man who is only teaching them to be abusive to women. And of a mother who does not look after their best interest. And is it never in the best interest of a child to live with an alcoholic. Especially one who is verbally abusive.

Are you saying I am not looking after their best interests because I have not left? Is that the only reason?

In order to look after my kids best interests, I need to establish what their best interest is. You are right it is not in their best interest to live with an alcoholic. What I’m not convinced of it the alternative - leaving - would be better for them.

They will do the same. They will not learn their father’s behavior is unacceptable.

My father was an alcoholic. I never thought his behavior was acceptable and I hated him. That’s my future prediction rather than my kids becoming like him.

They are at higher risk of becoming alcoholics as well. It will be the coping skill they learn.They will also likely grow to have no respect for you. You don’t demand it from your husband. You clearly do not think you’re worthy. You may not be able to make him quit drinking. You teach your children that women/mothers are not worthy of a man that treats her well. That children are not worthy of a father who is sober.

Are you saying you have concluded I don’t demand respect from my husband, do not think I am worthy of it and am teaching my children women and mothers are not worthy of a man who treats her well and children are not worthy of a father who is sober because I haven’t left? I don’t think it’s fair to conclude these things purely on the basis I haven’t left.

It is true children of alcoholics are at a higher risk of becoming alcoholics themselves. I’m not convinced living apart would lessen that risk, as it will not change the fact their father is an alcoholic. I didn’t want my parents to split when I was the age my kids are now. I did when I was older.

You can teach your children their father has a disease, that he has not learned to control.

I have talked to my older son about this. He has begged me not to leave. You may say I should not listen to him because I know best, but I can’t just ignore how he feels. He is the one and only reason I stay, but I accept some people will think I’m wrong.

Walking away would be one way to manage the situation, the problem would be what I would live on, and I may well loose my home. A friend of mine left her husband on the grounds of mental cruelty. She had 4 kids and he got the house. I may get the house, but I don’t know which is worse for my kids. Mom and Dad fighting it out in court, washing their dirty linen in public and as I live in a small town where no one believes in minding their own, everyone would know about it.

I know other kids at my sons school whose parents have split. They are pretty mixed up. I feel I’m in a loose/loose situation. At the moment, staying until my kids are a bit older and can understand more and I am more financially secure seems the lesser of two evils. As you say, that is my decision, my choice. If people think I am making the wrong choice, they are entitled to think that and I understand why, but I started this thread to see if someone could offer some advice on how to live with an alcoholic, not leave one.