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minkymurph
Guest
Thank for your positive comments. You are one of the few who has actually addressed the question I posed - developing coping strategies and skills to manage the situation as best I can.
- Status
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minkymurph
Guest
Many have spoken freely on this forum as to their opinion. That leaves me free to do the same.
I too grew up with an alcoholic father. As a consequence I learned how to spot bullying and emotional blackmail a mile off, and not to buy into it. I have read posts here that in my view smack of emotional blackmail. Giving the benefit of the doubt, it is possible those who posted these comments meant well, and in their ignorance believed themselves to be helping. It may work with others, but not me.
A good councilor doesn’t tell someone else what to do, and never tells them what they would do in their situation. They give the person the tools to help themselves and make their own decisions. Judging someones actions and using emotionally loaded phrases will never assist them to achieve that. It may make them feel bad enough about themselves to act in the way the person giving the advice thinks they should, but then my husband would say the same. He would argue being insensitive, the so-called ‘cruel to be kind’ strategy and making someone feel bad about themselves can be not only be justified if it produces the right result, it is necessary to product. I disagree, but I suppose it depends what result your trying to produce. In my view, a person who adopts such a strategy has issues themselves and are not the best people to take advice from.
In fairness, I left myself open to criticism - being run down as and individual, as a mother, having assumptions made about me, posters reading things into my posts that are not there, use of the ‘guilt trip’ and emotional blackmail when I started the thread. It’s a mistake I will not be making again. Lesson learned.
I will end by saying people are free to post what they choose, but I will not be responding to posts that in my view are little more than emotional blackmail designed to invoke feelings of guilt as this is just another form of bullying. To those who have suggested counselling, thank you for your responses and I will look into that. I would also like to thank those that posted positive responses.
I too grew up with an alcoholic father. As a consequence I learned how to spot bullying and emotional blackmail a mile off, and not to buy into it. I have read posts here that in my view smack of emotional blackmail. Giving the benefit of the doubt, it is possible those who posted these comments meant well, and in their ignorance believed themselves to be helping. It may work with others, but not me.
A good councilor doesn’t tell someone else what to do, and never tells them what they would do in their situation. They give the person the tools to help themselves and make their own decisions. Judging someones actions and using emotionally loaded phrases will never assist them to achieve that. It may make them feel bad enough about themselves to act in the way the person giving the advice thinks they should, but then my husband would say the same. He would argue being insensitive, the so-called ‘cruel to be kind’ strategy and making someone feel bad about themselves can be not only be justified if it produces the right result, it is necessary to product. I disagree, but I suppose it depends what result your trying to produce. In my view, a person who adopts such a strategy has issues themselves and are not the best people to take advice from.
In fairness, I left myself open to criticism - being run down as and individual, as a mother, having assumptions made about me, posters reading things into my posts that are not there, use of the ‘guilt trip’ and emotional blackmail when I started the thread. It’s a mistake I will not be making again. Lesson learned.
I will end by saying people are free to post what they choose, but I will not be responding to posts that in my view are little more than emotional blackmail designed to invoke feelings of guilt as this is just another form of bullying. To those who have suggested counselling, thank you for your responses and I will look into that. I would also like to thank those that posted positive responses.
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minkymurph
Guest
I would like to add a good councilor is also objective. Irrespective of how much personal experience a councilor has had of a similar situation, they are not the person in the situation and no two situations are identical. My husband may be an alcoholic, but he is not my father my kids are not me, and I am not my mother. As such, my situation cannot be assessed on the basis of my particular situation, or anyone else’s.
It is true partners of alcoholic’s are co-dependent, enablers and have a low-self esteem. However, it shows a lack of insight to attribute such characteristics to an individual based purely on the fact they live with an alcoholic. Further to this, it shows a lack of insight to make future predictions, among other things, as to how their children will feel about their in the future, how they will turn out.
I will not be responding to posts of this nature, and I accept I have no control as to what conclusions others may reach as a consequence of reading this, as I have no control over what others choose to think.
It is true partners of alcoholic’s are co-dependent, enablers and have a low-self esteem. However, it shows a lack of insight to attribute such characteristics to an individual based purely on the fact they live with an alcoholic. Further to this, it shows a lack of insight to make future predictions, among other things, as to how their children will feel about their in the future, how they will turn out.
I will not be responding to posts of this nature, and I accept I have no control as to what conclusions others may reach as a consequence of reading this, as I have no control over what others choose to think.
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Bill_7154
Guest
What you can do is prepare yourself for increasing displays of selfishness on your husbands part as he will choose alcohol over you and the kids. YOu can go to counseling and have your kids go. You can be prepared to patch your kids wounds of disappointment as they will come and increase over time.
You can go to AlANON, it’s for people in a family where there is an alcoholic. There is also alaTEEN I believe, certain ages are not appropriate to get into specifics with the kids.
You can try to structure your kids lives away from the hoouse, involved in positive activities, as you have done (your kids deserve this, no?) like sports or computer classes, or martial arts, painting, anything to be away from the house some of the time he is HOME. Weekends are great. Evenings too if he works days.
You can also cover for him re: work and buy him his boose like my mom did for my grandmother, bribed her with wine to raise me…it’s very sad thinking back on this, my mom and grandmother (and father as he eventually found out) ALL traded me for boose and their ease of life over raising a child…
God Bless,
Bill
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tskrobacz
Guest
I highly recommend you consider Alanon. The 12-step programs are a real gift of the spirit and will help restore your sanity…whether or not your husband chooses to continue drinking!
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minkymurph
Guest
Thank you Bill for your reasonable and objective response. You say your grandmother was an alcoholic? Thank for not directing any of anger you feel at me. In reading other posts, it looked to me like that’s what was happening.
I feel I would have to patch up their disappointments irrespective of whether or not I lived with him. Leaving would not be a solution to that one.
I am going to look into this, thank you.
I do try to do this. My eldest son is into football and belongs to a club. He also plays football in school. My younger son is into music and takes violin and guitar lessons. Funny, it’s the one thing he can do with his dad as he is a very good guitarist.
During the week my husband sleeps most of the time. He falls asleep when he comes home at 5, wakes up for his dinner, and a couple of hours later we go to bed. I’ve often left him lying on the settee and told him if he wants to behave like a teenager by sleeping on the settee in his clothes with his tiger blanket, and going to work half slept and smelly that’s up to him - see if I care. I know that may sound mean but he’s a grown man and I am not his mommy.
At weekends we often go down to a boat we have in a place called Fermanagh. Our weekends usually consist of me running around after the kids while he plays with the engine. My eldest son gets upset when he won’t come to the pictures or stuff with us, but he has made friends his own age down there now, and our ‘neighbors’ are a great couple who have two kids. We all get on well and it probably won’t surprise you to know they think my husband is a great guy.
He can be, it’s just a pity he can’t be more like that at home. We have other friends down there and they all help ‘dilute’ him if you know what I mean.However, the last few times he went down to the boat I didn’t go. I told him the reason for this was due to the fact that the last time we were down he did nothing but moan about everything, and yapped at me all weekend. I said I wasn’t going to listen to that all weekend. He took the kids down, but won’t go on his own with them - too much responsibility.
He takes his mate who is like an uncle to my kids. He is also a good friend of mine. I’ve known him for years as we grew up in the same area and went to the same school. If he wasn’t going I don’t think I would be happy for my husband to take them. He knows the whole situation and I talk to him a lot. Sometimes he stays with us as he is disabled, and in spite of being an atheist he has come to my kids first Holy Communion when my husband found an excuse not to just for support. He also comes down at Christmas and on their birthday. I should stress neither of us are interested in a relationship. He is a confirmed bachelor and much as I like him as a mate, no romantic notions at all.I have NEVER covered for him at work. Funny thing is, he’s never missed time off work and is one of those guys who would go into work if he was dying. Maybe it’s because he looses money if he is off.
However, I don’t know how much longer he will be able to hold a job down as as you know, alcoholism gets worse and I think he has got worse. Another problem we have in my part of the world is people don’t see alcoholism as a big deal. Most people who drink are heavy drinkers and they think if your not being beaten about and you can pay you have no reason to leave. What I took for cutting my father off was unreal. I couldn’t believe people thought I was the one that was wrong. Not that I cared what they thought. My real friends did understand and they are the only one’s who matter. However leaving my husband just seems to be taboo. Even my good friend was a bit shocked when I said it may be better if I left. His advice was don’t, tell him to leave he’s the problem. My friend also considered leaving an abusive husband and sought legal advice. A solicitor told her under no circumstances leave the family home. If you do, the court will see it that you are the one who walked out on the marriage and he will get the house. That happened to my uncle as well. He left because his wife was having affairs and she got the house because he left the family home.I don’t buy him boose. I couldn’t even if I wanted to as I don’t have the money. He’s taken to making his own cider and wine. There are times he has tried to talk me into doing it for him and I’ve just refused. I tell him as I do 90% of the housework, all the cooking, run the kids everywhere etc. etc. I don’t see why I should do anything else.
Thanks for listening.
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minkymurph
Guest
I’ll tell you something else Bill - if you don’t mind me imposing on your good will.
When I left my husband before, I found out I was entitled to no financial help and not entitled to housing because I owned a house and wasn’t legally separated. What I would have to do would apply to the court to force a sale, order the parties concerned to split the money. Alternatively, apply to the court to have my husband evicted.
In addition, my husband’s ‘great mate,’ as you probably know all alcoholics have one, told people my husband had kicked me out because he found out my son wasn’t his, and I was just saying he and my husbands drinking, (with this particular ‘friend’ in my home every night) was a cover story. He said I was lying by saying my son was my husband’s, and intended to lie to my child my husband was his father which in his view was downright wrong as my son had a right to know. Real friends of course knew he was lying, and know what sort of a person this ‘friend’ is, and he knew fine well he was adding to the problem. Ultimately it was my husbands fault because he wouldn’t tell him to sling his hook, but he knew fine well what the problems were, and I’m not the only person he spread vicious rumors and lies about.
I’m just trying to illustrate what my kids could be subjected to. They may be no worse off if I left, but I’m not convinced they would be better off - but that is not the issue. The issue is doing the best I can in the circumstances I am in.
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Eliza10
Guest
Good point here.
Yes! This is the the reality the OP needs to see.
Yes, this is it. YOU need strength and help from God to accept your reality.
And he has a free choice and he may NEVER. Every day he chooses denial and blame he gets further from the possibility of choosing this, IMO.
Yes, OP, read this again. This is true.
This is the truth.
I get this terrible feeling that the original poster sort of went to her 11 year old to ask his opinion about their leaving the father, and that is not an appropriate decision for a child to make. If you get counsel and seek wisdom and decide the wisest thing to do is leave, you cannot expect your child to say, “That’s okay with me, lets leave my Dad.” Its too much to put on a child. The child is not a friend or adviser to the parent. The parent needs to use her adult mind to decide whats best for the family and then tell the children the decision, and not burden them with a choice in the matter. They will feel terrible no matter what they choose, and feel that any negative outcomes (every choice has a negative outcome) is their own fault. There is some serious boundaries missing here, which is not unusual when you grow up in an alcoholic family and marry into one. Maybe read Melody Beatie’s classic on Codependency.
I also feel that the OP should probably leave him which is not decision to make here in the forum. She should realize thought that there is a real strong possibility that this is the best solution and seek counsel about it, and actively seek wisdom and contemplate. And it will take some time and a whole lot of planning and support to make such a move. There are many others in your shoes and there is help available.
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EasterJoy
Guest
OP, there are ways to deny an alcoholic or an addict unsupervised visits with his children, if only so that he won’t have any opportunity to drink and drive with them in the car. In addition to a counsellor, talk to a divorce lawyer, and investigate what your legal options really are, instead of just guessing.
If you were to stay, then the boundaries you are describing still allow him far too much unacceptable behavior. For instance, when you explored leaving him, he kept you in line by lying about you. That’s a marriage? It is not.
I’d try going to the library and finding “Codependent No More” by Melody Beattie, preferably the new edition. She is both codependent and alcoholic. She has a lot of good stuff in there. Still, promise yourself that you will not make these decisions on your own or with the advice of amateurs who have never met you. Get yourself as much experienced advice as you can. It will be worth every penny, because what you are trying to save is priceless, and is of the sort that cannot be replaced once it is lost, only compensated for.
IOW: Get your children out of the situations with their father that you have described, and find a way to keep them from ever happening again. Always remember, too, that when they see you abused, they are abused, too. That you may not be 100% successful all of the time is not a reason to start doing the best that you can. Your best is all that anyone can ask of you.
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Eliza10
Guest
If he has a drinking problem, start documenting it. If you decide to leave, it will help. A drinking problem is one thing that restricts a parent’s access. Supervised access would be ideal. It would cut down on his verbal abuse, and make him put on his best for the children, which they will benefit from.
I realize that though leaving might be best it still might not be possible. When you are a Mom and trying to learn and earn its tricky. But keep open to the possibility that if it is in fact best, there may be a way to live you haven’t thought of, and getting advice can help.
In the case you do need to stay, then advice on how to live with one would help. You definitely need to learn to make boundaries. Al-anon would help. They have a lot of materials to read and you may meet some people you can call on for advice who have been in your shoes. The Codependency book would help. Also Patricia Evan’s best-seller, Verbally Abusive Relationships; How to recognize them and How to respond will give you specific ways to address and stop the verbal abuse you live with. That book will also help you see how that verbal abuse affects you. You may think it doesn’t, but it does. Women who have been beaten by their husbands say that its the verbal abuse - such as you describe here - that does the lasting and pervasive damage.
It seems to me that if you must live there while you get yourself established, you must learn to get real tough with boundaries.
This is true!.
That is a sad, sad fact of going through hard times like this. You are not alone. After my divorce I could not believe how many people I thought were my friends really weren’t. My verbally abusive ex had an affair and we had a terrible custody battle where my ex lied about me, but people, in my time of great need, wanted to stay away, and worse, judge that if there was a divorce *both *must be at fault.
But its actually a gift to learn who your real friends are. When times are tough the false friends leave. Better to not waste you time on them, and appreciate the true-gold ones who can stay with you through thick and thin.
Also it is the best time to draw near to God. Some years out from my stressful divorce and start at single parenting I now look back in gratitude that the terrible times made me trust in God. To have learned to trust Him and that He can be trusted for all my needs is a lesson so valuable that I would choose to go through it all again just to learn this.
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minkymurph
Guest
I explained why leaving did not seem to be a solution in other posts. Suffice to say the same problem remained.
My motive in leaving was not because I thought my husband would change. I have no idea why some posters think it was. Nothing could be farther from the truth. I left because I didn’t want to live as I was living anymore. I have no idea why some posters keep insisting I want to change him, I don’t. It would be good if he did change, but it is not within my power to change him. I have no idea why some posters think this is what I think. Leaving would not change him. In fact, he may be worse. If you leave someone you leave because you don’t want to be with them anymore. Not because you think it will shock them into being better.
Where do you get the idea reality is something I can’t accept? As I have said, I don’t believe staying with him will change him. The reality is neither will he change if I leave. Exactly how am I being unrealistic? You leave because you don’t want to be in the relationship anymore, not because you want to salvage it. Leaving does not salvage a relationship. It ends it - permanently. That is what leaving is to me. Ending the relationship permanently. That is why I have not left because once I do, the relationship is over - permanently. My children’s relationship with their father is over permanently. Not distance, not breathing space - over, permanently. I have a friend whose mum chucked her dad out for drinking. Her mum had no more contact with him and neither do they. They all turned out OK. She’s someone I have a lot of trust in and I don’t trust easily. In her view, dad at weekends and dad in the background is the road to no town. In her view, if you decide to leave it is best for your kids if you have no more contact- at all, and it needs to be that bad before you leave. I’m inclined to agree. No dad at weekends, no dad spoiling them on Saturday and being a big hero because he gives up one day a week to be with them while leaving the mother to struggle and be the disciplinarian while he gets to be the good guy. If I leave, he is out of the picture - permanently.
I have never prayed to God to stop my husband drinking. I have prayed to ask him to help me cope and try to give my kids a good life irrespective of his drinking. This is something I would have to do irrespective of whether or not I leave him. I know he will not stop drinking unless he want to, and I know God will not fix things. I don’t expect Him to. I did not leave him before because I thought it would change him. I left him because I wasn’t prepared to go on living the way we were. That is the only reason to leave and as I said, in my book, rightly or wrongly, if you leave it means no contact at all. You cut him out of your kids lives, permanently.
I get this terrible feeling that the original poster sort of went to her 11 year old to ask his opinion about their leaving the father, and that is not an appropriate decision for a child to make. If you get counsel and seek wisdom and decide the wisest thing to do is leave, you cannot expect your child to say, “That’s okay with me, lets leave my Dad.” Its too much to put on a child. The child is not a friend or adviser to the parent. The parent needs to use her adult mind to decide whats best for the family and then tell the children the decision, and not burden them with a choice in the matter. They will feel terrible no matter what they choose, and feel that any negative outcomes (every choice has a negative outcome) is their own fault. There is some serious boundaries missing here, which is not unusual when you grow up in an alcoholic family and marry into one. Maybe read Melody Beatie’s classic on Codependency.
I also feel that the OP should probably leave him which is not decision to make here in the forum. She should realize thought that there is a real strong possibility that this is the best solution and seek counsel about it, and actively seek wisdom and contemplate. And it will take some time and a whole lot of planning and support to make such a move. There are many others in your shoes and there is help available.
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minkymurph
Guest
You can put those feelings to bed because nothing could be farther from the truth. Yes, I have talked to my son. What mother wouldn’t and consider how her decision would impact on him? I’m sure your not suggesting I should ignore how he feels because I know best?
I talked to him because it’s not just myself I have to consider. There is no way of knowing what is going on in a child’s head and making an informed decision outside of talking to them. My eldest son’s worst fear is we will divorce. I’m sure many would say this my be for the best, and they may well be right, but it would be wrong of me to just ignore how he feels.
You are right to say it is a strong possibility I will have to leave. I am not ruling that out. What I am saying is that does not mean it should be now. As you say, it would take a lot of planning and support, a lot of contemplation, and is not something that should be rushed into.
There are many in my shoes, yes. Help available? No, there isn’t. There are no good friends out there and social services don’t care. I say that because that is my experience. Once you leave you are on your own - totally. That does not mean I am afraid of that. I learned a long time ago not to depend on anyone, and that we now live in a very uncaring society where no one gives two hoots about anyone but themselves. I don’t expect anyone to care or anyone to help.
Some posters seem to be of the opinion leaving will solve the problem. It won’t. The same problems will remain irrespective of where I choose to live. They will not go away if I leave which is why I posted the thread.
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AnneElizabeth
Guest
I read over most of these posts. I think they were really harsh towards the OP. They were all treating her like SHE was the cause of the problem… how in the world is she supposed to get the support she needs with attacks like these? SHE is not the one doing the wrong here. SHE is stuck in a desperate situation. Why “beat” her because she is still living with her husband? It is not like she has not tried. Just because the situation is not remedied yet you have to ‘beat’ on her some more? There are no golden easy tickets out of this situation. I just wish some of you would calm down and stop pointing your finger at her. Yes, its a bad situation for the kids, but so is the alternative… and if you say otherwise, you just ARE NOT thinking.
Furthermore I’m going to stick my neck out here and say I don’t believe she should follow the advice posted on here. (Except for the al-anon meetings… that sounds reasonable) Some of you sound like you’ve been watching too much Dr. Phil and Oprah… whom, by the way, are not our Savior. New fangled bright and shiny modern day ideas are not God’s way. Convieniet ways are not always God’s ways. Sometimes things just are lousy. Sometimes we just have to lovingly trudge on and make the best of it. Cutting off something that is ‘bad**’ is not always the right thing** to do. Its not black and white. Sometimes it takes prayer. I really can’t stand this modern day mentality of “Is it bad for you? Is it bothering you? Then cut it off- you have the right!!!” ** That’s not the gospel. ** Now in saying that, I’m not saying to cower in a corner and give up either. God has His ways of helping/healing. Do we really believe and trust in Him? Does the OP’s hubby have no soul or is he a soul that is in the devil’s grasp right now? Should we not care about him? Should we only focus on the innocents? (Not saying that the shouldn’t) Wouldn’t you like to see all of this healed? Then pray to the One Who is The Healer. A lot of you sound like you don’t even know Him.
Is the OP in a bad situation… yep, you bet. What did the saints do? sarcastic I’m sure St. Rita left her hubby when he was drunk. Yeah, right. That is what made her such a great example of Christ. end sarcastic rant
Funny, how the some catholics tout the catholic mantra of becoming saints but when the going gets tough they call a psychiatrist to tell them they are in the right to do something against God’s will. one word: LUKEWARM!!!
OP, you married this man. I’m SO incredibly sorry that you are going through this. I feel for your children. Its true that they are affected, but its true what you say they are affected by this one way or the other. I’m sorry I don’t have any first hand experience with alcoholics, and so I’m not even sure what I said helps. I have a family relative whose father was an alcoholic. Her mom left him. Things weren’t easy. I don’t believe either choose made a great difference in the life of my relative. The alcoholic just straight up HURT everyone, PERIOD and it didn’t make a difference if he was there or not- my relative’s life was affected by it.
The only thing I have ever heard that might help is that alcoholics are usually hypoglycemic, or that they have developed the addiction to alcohol because of the sugar high that alcohol brings as alcohol is THE quickest way to get sugar into the bloodstream (more so than soda or sweets). I have heard for those who want to get sober, they should cut out all sugar from their diet. (Low carb diet would be appropriate) I have heard this helps, but of course your husband is the one who has to agree to it. I just thought I’d share that with you because that is something I heard that helps with the craving of alcohol. Basically they drink to keep the sugar levels constant, yet they don’t realize this is the reason for the drinking.
OP, I wish I had better insights. I pray God will help you through this and send someone along who can.
Furthermore I’m going to stick my neck out here and say I don’t believe she should follow the advice posted on here. (Except for the al-anon meetings… that sounds reasonable) Some of you sound like you’ve been watching too much Dr. Phil and Oprah… whom, by the way, are not our Savior. New fangled bright and shiny modern day ideas are not God’s way. Convieniet ways are not always God’s ways. Sometimes things just are lousy. Sometimes we just have to lovingly trudge on and make the best of it. Cutting off something that is ‘bad**’ is not always the right thing** to do. Its not black and white. Sometimes it takes prayer. I really can’t stand this modern day mentality of “Is it bad for you? Is it bothering you? Then cut it off- you have the right!!!” ** That’s not the gospel. ** Now in saying that, I’m not saying to cower in a corner and give up either. God has His ways of helping/healing. Do we really believe and trust in Him? Does the OP’s hubby have no soul or is he a soul that is in the devil’s grasp right now? Should we not care about him? Should we only focus on the innocents? (Not saying that the shouldn’t) Wouldn’t you like to see all of this healed? Then pray to the One Who is The Healer. A lot of you sound like you don’t even know Him.
Is the OP in a bad situation… yep, you bet. What did the saints do? sarcastic I’m sure St. Rita left her hubby when he was drunk. Yeah, right. That is what made her such a great example of Christ. end sarcastic rant
Funny, how the some catholics tout the catholic mantra of becoming saints but when the going gets tough they call a psychiatrist to tell them they are in the right to do something against God’s will. one word: LUKEWARM!!!OP, you married this man. I’m SO incredibly sorry that you are going through this. I feel for your children. Its true that they are affected, but its true what you say they are affected by this one way or the other. I’m sorry I don’t have any first hand experience with alcoholics, and so I’m not even sure what I said helps. I have a family relative whose father was an alcoholic. Her mom left him. Things weren’t easy. I don’t believe either choose made a great difference in the life of my relative. The alcoholic just straight up HURT everyone, PERIOD and it didn’t make a difference if he was there or not- my relative’s life was affected by it.
The only thing I have ever heard that might help is that alcoholics are usually hypoglycemic, or that they have developed the addiction to alcohol because of the sugar high that alcohol brings as alcohol is THE quickest way to get sugar into the bloodstream (more so than soda or sweets). I have heard for those who want to get sober, they should cut out all sugar from their diet. (Low carb diet would be appropriate) I have heard this helps, but of course your husband is the one who has to agree to it. I just thought I’d share that with you because that is something I heard that helps with the craving of alcohol. Basically they drink to keep the sugar levels constant, yet they don’t realize this is the reason for the drinking.
OP, I wish I had better insights. I pray God will help you through this and send someone along who can.
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minkymurph
Guest
Thank you Anne Elizabeth. You have been brave enough to say what I was not. Well, it’s not that I wasn’t brave enough, I was trying to be charitable in that bad advice may have been well meaning. However, I feel I am getting beat on an my only fault would appear to be not moving out of my home. Funny, I got beat on for cutting my alcoholic father out of my life and not doing enough to help him. Now I am being beat on for not cutting my husband out and hoping he will get the help he needs.
I have no intention of following some of the ‘advice’ given here. Stick your neck out, I will be right behind you because you appear to be trying to think of what is best for me first.
It has surprised me on a Catholic forum how many people fully support breaking up a family. It wasn’t what I was expecting and one of the reasons I posted was because I thought people would understand I would not just want to leave. I’m sorry to say the more I see of some (not all) who profess to believe in God the more I am convinced they don’t really.
I appreciate your kindness and bravery. My kids are affected but as you say, they would not discontinue to be affected by my leaving. They still would be which is the point some seem to be missing.
Sounds to me you have all the insight you need. You don’t have to lived with an alcoholic to have empathy for someone who does. In fact, it may well be the case it is better not to have, as you will not let your personal experience color your judgement.
You know, I prayed to God last night. Unfortunately, for a lot of reasons I won’t go into here I have lost faith in people and organized religion. Not God, but organized religion. I told God I was sorry that I have not been particularly devote of late, I told Him I felt I had failed in terms of nurturing faith in my children as I am the only example they have. I also told Him I still believed in Him, and I did not believe he would forsake me if I was genuine despite my failings. When I woke this morning, I felt so strong, so positive. I thought I am not going to let this beat me. I am going to do the job. I am going to a good mother to my kids no matter what my husband does. I will cope, I will not let his alcoholism get the better of me or them. Things will be different for my kids than it was for me, and I will not let anyone heap a guilt trip onto me because I am not solving things the way they think I should, and I REFUSE to let anyone’s words make me feel bad about myself or a failure as a mother. I REFUSE to do that to myself.
Thank you Anne Elizabeth - for not telling me what I should do but just being a friend, and I will thank God tonight for sending you to me.
God speed. Dia Dhuit (pronounced gee a ditch) is hello in Irish, but it literally means God be with you. The reply is, Dia is Muire Dhuit (gee is muri ditch) which literally means God and Mary be with you.
K
Kelfa28
Guest
The way I see it…breaking up a family does not necessarily mean a separation. Breaking up a family is finding someone else to marry and mixing in new relationships. People can still be married but live separately…if it means an end to abuse. I’m very sorry but I cannot see how living in an abusive household is better then living separately.
Like I said…I’ve listened to my husband go on about his life in a household plagued by addiction and abuse. His father was a very angry drunk and he took it out on his wife (my husband’s mother) and my husband.
My advice is given because of direct experience. I felt I was trying to be charitable. It pains me to read about children encountering abuse. I just can’t see how a separation is worse then living in an abusive household.
It’s clear that looking for advice on a forum like this isn’t the answer. You need professional advice. You need to speak with a counselor and you need your children to be in therapy. They can give you much better advice then we can. Going to Al-anon is fantastic advice.
This is advice from my husband…he feels that his relationship with his father is far better now then it was when he was younger and living with his father. He had a break from his father’s anger and alcoholism by living separately with his mother. However, the difference is he wanted his parents to get divorced. He wanted them to separate. He wanted an end to the abuse. He got what he wanted. Unfortunately…both his parents began seeing other people and that was what caused all of the issues he later had with his parents.
This is an example. I’m not trying to judge or berate. That was never my intention.
Like I said…I’ve listened to my husband go on about his life in a household plagued by addiction and abuse. His father was a very angry drunk and he took it out on his wife (my husband’s mother) and my husband.
My advice is given because of direct experience. I felt I was trying to be charitable. It pains me to read about children encountering abuse. I just can’t see how a separation is worse then living in an abusive household.
It’s clear that looking for advice on a forum like this isn’t the answer. You need professional advice. You need to speak with a counselor and you need your children to be in therapy. They can give you much better advice then we can. Going to Al-anon is fantastic advice.
This is advice from my husband…he feels that his relationship with his father is far better now then it was when he was younger and living with his father. He had a break from his father’s anger and alcoholism by living separately with his mother. However, the difference is he wanted his parents to get divorced. He wanted them to separate. He wanted an end to the abuse. He got what he wanted. Unfortunately…both his parents began seeing other people and that was what caused all of the issues he later had with his parents.
This is an example. I’m not trying to judge or berate. That was never my intention.
M
minkymurph
Guest
Thank you for your honesty and your kindness.
I suppose we see things differently. I don’t believe in things like trial separations or living apart and still being married. You either stay married or you totally cut the ties. No in between. I’m not saying I am right, there may well be people who can live apart and maintain a reasonably good relationship and it works for them. I don’t think that would work for us. I live in a small town and it would be impossible not to have regular contact with my husband. The only way I could do that would be if I moved to another town. I wouldn’t mind that, I hate the town I live in. But, my younger son is autistic and it would be a big upheaval for him to move to another town and a new school. He is at a really good school where he gets a lot of help. My eldest son is moving to ‘big’ school next year and he would have to move away from all his friends. That is not to say it is the wrong thing to do, but it is a big decision with many factors to consider. If I moved to another town I would not qualify for housing because of how the system works here which is another factor to consider.
I can understand why you say you cannot see how separation can be worse that living in an abusive household. It’s not worse, but it is not necessarily better. Abuse does not end because you don’t live in the same house as the abuser. The abuse continues. It continues because the person dishing out the abuse wants to dish it out. The abuse I got from my father continued after I left home at 18. Every time I saw him. I was quite prepared to have no more contact with my father. The only reason I did was because my mother begged me not to break contact with him. Only for her I would have. I don’t blame her for that. She wasn’t the type of person who could have coped with that, and she wasn’t the type of person who would have coped easily living alone. I told her she could move into a flat with me, but she wouldn’t. I don’t blame her for anything. I blame my father because he is the one who was responsible. After she died, I had no more contact with him my father, but I can tell you I still had issues. The fact my mother chose to stay with him is not the reason I had issues. I had issues because of him, not her decision. There is no magic cure. Leaving is not a cure. It may provide you with a greater degree of sanity, but it does not remove the problem. Your problems go with you. Even when I had no contact with my father I still had to deal with problems he created. You may have removed yourself from the problem, but the problem doesn’t leave you. It follows you.
The abuse continued after I was married. Someone once told me the only way I would finally be free of my father was when he was dead. They were right. The only guaranteed way to stop abuse from a person intent on being abusive to have no more contact with them. It’s like a bullying in school. You can remove the bully from the school, or your child. The issue remains in that they need support and the ability to develop life skills and coping strategies to deal with the bully, and the fact they were bullied. There is only so much a school can do to ensure children are not bullied. Children who do best are those who know and have the confidence to deal with a bully. That does not mean beating their pulp in. If a child is not capable of that there is no point in telling them to do that. There are other ways. Posters have said I am teaching my kids mothers can be mistreated, or words to that effect. I have not taught them that. Their father has. He will not stop teaching them that if I leave if that is what he thinks. The only way to stop him from teaching them that is no more contact.
M
minkymurph
Guest
What I have been trying to say on this forum is that leaving would not change the fact my kids have an alcoholic father. Yes, I would not be living in the same house, but that would not stop him being abusive to them or me or them if he intent on being abusive. He would have a right to see them unless I was successful in obtaining a restraining order. I’m not convinced that is in their best interests and I’m not convinced I would be successful in obtaining one. Are people of the opinion he would be different if I left? I don’t think so. Yes, I limit the time they spend with him. Do I have to live in a separate house to do that? I may get custody of the children, but a restraining order and only supervised visits? That is a different matter and I have to ask what purpose would it serve? Would it serve to change things, or just punish him? Not that he doesn’t deserve a bit of ‘punishment,’ but expecting my kids to do it?
I could try and have my husband evicted from the family home. What effect would that have on my children, and there is every possibility I would not be successful.
I appreciate what your saying about your husband. I also look back and wonder how life would have been if my mother had left. The only way I see it would have made any difference would be if she had no more to do with him, cut him out of her life and our lives completely. That’s a big step, and I can understand why she did not do that. To do so means there is no hope.
I wasn’t so much looking for advice on the forum. I posted because I thought there may be people out there who have lived with, or are living with an alcoholic, and they may have been able to tell me ways they coped with it. I’m a great believer, naive as it may seem, in giving people the benefit of the doubt. If someone asserts their intentions are well meaning, I would take that at face value and be inclined to believe them unless they prove me wrong.
I could try and have my husband evicted from the family home. What effect would that have on my children, and there is every possibility I would not be successful.
I appreciate what your saying about your husband. I also look back and wonder how life would have been if my mother had left. The only way I see it would have made any difference would be if she had no more to do with him, cut him out of her life and our lives completely. That’s a big step, and I can understand why she did not do that. To do so means there is no hope.
I wasn’t so much looking for advice on the forum. I posted because I thought there may be people out there who have lived with, or are living with an alcoholic, and they may have been able to tell me ways they coped with it. I’m a great believer, naive as it may seem, in giving people the benefit of the doubt. If someone asserts their intentions are well meaning, I would take that at face value and be inclined to believe them unless they prove me wrong.
T
TheRealJuliane
Guest
There IS a connection, but that is not the cause of alcoholism. If it were, alcoholics could just stop eating sugar and stay sober. I think alcoholics become sugar-addicted as they drink more, but I’m not in this line of research, so it’s just speculation. And not all alcoholics have a problem with sugar. Also plenty of folks who are addicted to sweets have no problem with alcohol.
M
minkymurph
Guest
I don’t know you are too far off the mark. My husband does not drink tea or coffee but he drinks loads of those energy drinks and a friend of ours said she thinks that’s what make him ratty.There IS a connection, but that is not the cause of alcoholism. If it were, alcoholics could just stop eating sugar and stay sober. I think alcoholics become sugar-addicted as they drink more, but I’m not in this line of research, so it’s just speculation. And not all alcoholics have a problem with sugar. Also plenty of folks who are addicted to sweets have no problem with alcohol.
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