I don't know if I can stand this anymore - mi kids

[AnneElizabeth]

minkymurph,

Thanks to you also for your kind words. I just don’t like to see people who are already in need get beat up. It doesn’t help anything at all. I just realized a few hours after I typed my post that I was taking out my frustrations on those who seemed to be harsh with you, just as those who had had alcoholics in their family were taking their frustrations from the memory of those situations out on you. I actually want to apologize to those that I was harsh to, but I still do stick to what I said. I think we all want to see this remedied. No one wants children to get hurt. I guess frustrations are running high in the midst of this suffering. I think tensions just started to run high here because we all know that this needs immediate attention and care and not everyone agrees with what should be done. The situation is very complicated- especially so when it comes to wanting to fulfill God’s desires in all this. Its also hard for anyone here to assess the situation in the way it needs to be since we are not there to know exactly how things are. Have you spoken to a priest about this?

Dia is Muire Dhuit!!

 

[EasterJoy]

What I have been trying to say on this forum is that leaving would not change the fact my kids have an alcoholic father. Yes, I would not be living in the same house, but that would not stop him being abusive to them or me or them if he intent on being abusive. He would have a right to see them unless I was successful in obtaining a restraining order. I’m not convinced that is in their best interests and I’m not convinced I would be successful in obtaining one. Are people of the opinion he would be different if I left? I don’t think so. Yes, I limit the time they spend with him. Do I have to live in a separate house to do that? I may get custody of the children, but a restraining order and only supervised visits? That is a different matter and I have to ask what purpose would it serve? Would it serve to change things, or just punish him? Not that he doesn’t deserve a bit of ‘punishment,’ but expecting my kids to do it?

I could try and have my husband evicted from the family home. What effect would that have on my children, and there is every possibility I would not be successful.

I appreciate what your saying about your husband. I also look back and wonder how life would have been if my mother had left. The only way I see it would have made any difference would be if she had no more to do with him, cut him out of her life and our lives completely. That’s a big step, and I can understand why she did not do that. To do so means there is no hope.

I wasn’t so much looking for advice on the forum. I posted because I thought there may be people out there who have lived with, or are living with an alcoholic, and they may have been able to tell me ways they coped with it. I’m a great believer, naive as it may seem, in giving people the benefit of the doubt. If someone asserts their intentions are well meaning, I would take that at face value and be inclined to believe them unless they prove me wrong.

I really think you’d benefit from talking this over with people who can actually help you find answers. For instance, they can help you sort out where giving the benefit of the doubt is helpful and where it is not.

 

[AnneElizabeth]

The way I see it…breaking up a family does not necessarily mean a separation. Breaking up a family is finding someone else to marry and mixing in new relationships. People can still be married but live separately…if it means an end to abuse. I’m very sorry but I cannot see how living in an abusive household is better then living separately.

Kelfa28, I think you are right, and before, I didn’t really see the term separation as in the way you described here, but I do have a question for you…

 If the OP does leave, and given the non-sober state of her husband, what is keeping either party of this marriage 'close' so that infidelity does not occur?  Do you see what I'm saying? The alcohol in this situation is already ripping the two apart- separating is more of the same ripping.    Living together can be like a stop for infidelity to occur (both sides, as turmoil between a couple can cause weakness towards remaining strong in fidelity)   I hope you can see what I'm trying to get at here.    I guess if I were in this situation I would be worried about it as my role as a wife would be to be my husband's helpmeet.   If I left him (separated) and he was already not in this right mind because of alcohol the chances of something coming between us and tearing things up more would be greater, would they not?

I guess also what I’m trying to point out is this: If a couple is already separated in their hearts (a danger to the sanctity of marriage as marriage is not just about living in the same home) and for the sake of the children the couple does not ‘divorce’ on paper but divorces in physicality, what is the difference from real divorce? Is not a very real divorce occurring anyway, even though it is not on paper?

I guess this is why I see the OP’s dilemma. Its a perplexing problem for her all the way around. Some Catholics seem to give into the modern idea that you just leave for the sake of the children so they don’t’ learn the abuse and get harmed in the process. But the traditional Catholic sense was always you don’t leave… ever. In fact, the Bible says “God hates divorce”. I don’t think He was just talking about a piece of paper that says you are officially and lawfully divorced.
Anyway, that is my question for you, but I do agree with you too.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I don’t know you are too far off the mark. My husband does not drink tea or coffee but he drinks loads of those energy drinks and a friend of ours said she thinks that’s what make him ratty.

That could play into the problem - and it is terribly unhealthy for him. They have a lot of sugar and a lot more caffeine.

I am going to type part of the Al-Anon introduction that is read at the start of every meeting. I think you will realize that what you are seeking can be found in Al-Anon meetings.
**************** Meeting opening

We welcome you to the ____ Al-Anon Family Group and hope you will find in this fellowship the help and friendship we have been privileged to enjoy.

**We who live with, or have lived with, the problem of alcoholism, understand as perhaps few others can. We, too, were lonely and frustrated, but in Al-Anon we discover that no situation is really hopeless and that it is possible for us to find contentment and even happiness whether the alcoholic is drinking or not.
**
We urge you to try our program. It has helped many of us find solutions that lead to serenity. And as we learn to place our problem in its true perspective, we find it loses its power to dominate our thoughts and our lives.

The family situation is bound to improve as we apply the Al-Anon ideas. Without such spiritual help, living with an alcoholic is too much for most of us. Our thinking becomes distorted by trying to force solutions, and we become irritable and unreasonable without knowing it.

The Al-Anon Program is based on the Twelve Suggested Steps of Alcoholics Anonymous, which we try, little by little, one day at a time, to apply to our lives, along with our slogans and the Serenity Prayer. The loving interchange of help among members and daily reading of Al-Anon literature thus make us ready to receive the priceless gift of serenity.

---

THIS IS ALL TRUE. It will work if you work the steps. It is not the only way to live with an alcoholic, but it is one of the best ways.

and remember, Al-Anon members should NOT give you advice on leaving your husband. They will listen to you, and share their own experience, strength, and hope, but will NOT advise you to leave or stay.

 

[TexCatholic4JMJ]

To the OP, I think you are doing the best you can and until you are financially able to leave,
I would get counseling for you and your boys. I would also avail myself of all the help I
could get by storming heaven for help and going to the sacraments, especially confession
and Mass and the Eucharist.
There have been many tough things going on in my life over the last couple of years, and
before that many years ago. Both times prayer (both mine and others) and my faith have
sustained me.
I will keep you in my prayers.

 

[Kelfa28]

Kelfa28, I think you are right, and before, I didn’t really see the term separation as in the way you described here, but I do have a question for you…

 If the OP does leave, and given the non-sober state of her husband, what is keeping either party of this marriage 'close' so that infidelity does not occur?  Do you see what I'm saying? The alcohol in this situation is already ripping the two apart- separating is more of the same ripping.    Living together can be like a stop for infidelity to occur (both sides, as turmoil between a couple can cause weakness towards remaining strong in fidelity)   I hope you can see what I'm trying to get at here.    I guess if I were in this situation I would be worried about it as my role as a wife would be to be my husband's helpmeet.   If I left him (separated) and he was already not in this right mind because of alcohol the chances of something coming between us and tearing things up more would be greater, would they not?

I guess also what I’m trying to point out is this: If a couple is already separated in their hearts (a danger to the sanctity of marriage as marriage is not just about living in the same home) and for the sake of the children the couple does not ‘divorce’ on paper but divorces in physicality, what is the difference from real divorce? Is not a very real divorce occurring anyway, even though it is not on paper?

I guess this is why I see the OP’s dilemma. Its a perplexing problem for her all the way around. Some Catholics seem to give into the modern idea that you just leave for the sake of the children so they don’t’ learn the abuse and get harmed in the process. But the traditional Catholic sense was always you don’t leave… ever. In fact, the Bible says “God hates divorce”. I don’t think He was just talking about a piece of paper that says you are officially and lawfully divorced.

Anyway, that is my question for you, but I do agree with you too.

We’re talking about abuse here…not a run-of-the-mill “irreconcilable differences.” It’s not a situation where someone disagrees with someone else and fighting ensues. I may tentatively agree with you, hypothetically, if it was just the wife being abused. There could be an argument to keep the marriage together. But even then I don’t think anyone should endure abuse. Once you involve children within the abuse…it’s an entirely different ballgame. No child should suffer for the sake of doctrine that says marriage is final and a family must stay together, regardless of the situation and for the sake of tradition.
There is such as thing as common sense. I don’t think any priest on this planet would argue that you must keep a family together because “God hates divorce.” Especially when abuse is involved and especially if the abuse involves children.
They would recommend separation and counseling. Separation to get the children away from the abuse and counseling to repair the damage and potentially work through the problems.
If they do recommend staying together (even in cases of sexual assault, physical violence and incest)…that is a level of piousness I don’t want any part of…as orthodox as I am.

Here is the reality, what is happening right now, both the wife and children are being abused. Full stop. She states it in her original post.
Why are we predicting things and planning for things that may or may not occur in the future? How do we know that infidelity will happen? Why endure any continued abuse for a “what if” scenario?
If one of the spouses does decide to commit adultery as well…then all you can do is pray…and pray hard for them. That and continue to protect the children.

The abuse is very real but the infidelity is just a hypothetical. I don’t agree with this reasoning. My husband endured abuse within a family when the husband and wife were married. They are no longer married. They also have not had any subsequent marriages…but, yes, infidelity was rampant…after the separation. To be totally honest, it hurt him and his relationship with his parents. But he said he would take it over the abuse he suffered for 13 years. Ideally, for him, separation without any infidelity would have been ideal. But he was fine with the infidelity. Anything to get out of the continued abuse. He has a cordial relationship with his father and his father is allowed to visit his grandchild. But my husband has never lived with him or visited him for any length of time after the separation and his father has supervised visits with his grandchild…with both my husband and I home.

Children should never be subjected to any abuse. They are helpless and it’s the parent’s duty to protect them from abuse. I, personally, fail to see how staying in an abusive marriage is “better” for everyone. I fail to see an argument that states staying in an abusive marriage is better then separation…regardless of the outcome of the separation.

 

[minkymurph]

minkymurph,

Thanks to you also for your kind words. I just don’t like to see people who are already in need get beat up. It doesn’t help anything at all. I just realized a few hours after I typed my post that I was taking out my frustrations on those who seemed to be harsh with you, just as those who had had alcoholics in their family were taking their frustrations from the memory of those situations out on you. I actually want to apologize to those that I was harsh to, but I still do stick to what I said. I think we all want to see this remedied. No one wants children to get hurt. I guess frustrations are running high in the midst of this suffering. I think tensions just started to run high here because we all know that this needs immediate attention and care and not everyone agrees with what should be done. The situation is very complicated- especially so when it comes to wanting to fulfill God’s desires in all this. Its also hard for anyone here to assess the situation in the way it needs to be since we are not there to know exactly how things are. Have you spoken to a priest about this?

Dia is Muire Dhuit!!

There is no doubt this is a topic that makes feelings run high. What we should not do, is entangle the pain, hurt or anger we feel as a consequence of our own experience with someone else’s situation. That is a big no no for any councilor. Having said that, I don’t expect anyone on the forums to have the skills of a professional. That would be both unfair an unrealistic.

Children touch a raw nerve with most of us, and rightly so. We have a desire to protect the innocent. What I disagree with, is the suggestion that leaving would offer my children more protection. It would not, unless I have no contact and they had no contact with their father. Any contact with him will expose them. Even supervised contact. The only thing that would solve would be if he becomes abusive, the meeting with them would be called to a halt. There is also the possibility daddy would be on his best behavior when around them. Anyone who knows an alcoholic knows they are good at this. They can be very accomplished at fooling people.

My uncle told me of a couple who live near him. The woman’s mother reported them to social services for child cruelty and the kids were taken off them. What did they do? Best behavior, gave up the drink, got the kids back, went back on the drink and back to the cruelty. There is no remedy. Leaving is not a remedy. The only remedy is my husband knocking the boose on the head. If he won’t do that, no one can make him. He has to want to do it himself. I don’t believe he will. I think the only thing that might stop him is if he gets a health scare.

We do have a good parish priest. I am reluctant to talk to him because I have lost faith. I adored our previous parish priest. I could have talked to him about anything, I felt so comfortable with him and I valued his advice as he lived in the real world. He has just been convicted of child abuse and is serving a prison sentence. I know there are good priests out there, but I’m sorry. the church in Ireland is in a mess, my trust has been broken and I am in no hurry to trust again. I’ve stopped going to Mass and confession. I’m not proud of that, I don’t think I’m right and I feel I’m not doing enough to nurture my children’s faith. I suppose it’s so easy here in that schools, while they do a great job, have made us parents lazy in that they take them to Mass and prepare them for sacraments.

My eldest son said to me recently, he doesn’t know if he believes in God. He says he’s confused by it all and doesn’t know whether to believe or not. My kids go to a Catholic school. The truth is I didn’t know what to say to him because I am in such a bad place at the minute in terms of my faith and not the best person to talk to. I had another bad experience at a Catholic university where I trained as an RE teacher. I essentially got kicked out. I passed everything and they told me I had a right to go back as a consequence, but they thought I would be better doing something else as they didn’t think I was suited to teaching as apparently I don’t ‘connect with people.’ As far as I am concerned I just didn’t fit in, and the lies that were told about me! I have not lost my faith in God. I love my God. But I have concluded there are so many people out there who profess to believe in Him and to me they don’t. My oh my what does this have to do with the thread? Not a lot. I’m just trying to explain I’m really not in a good place right now and when your not in a good place, it’s the wrong time to make major decisions. Better to wait until your head is clear, your thinking straight and you know what you want and where you want to go.

Having said all that I’m not one for sitting around and feeling sorry for myself. Well, at times I indulge it as I think we are all entitled to a bit of self pity at times - so long as it doesn’t last too long and I don’t intend for that to happen.

Actually I think I have a great life and so much to look forward to. I got on another course at uni. I’m training to be a lawyer and I love it. I have two lovely kids I am so proud of and I tell them that all the time. Money’s tight but hey, I can pay may bills, good food on the table, and in February my mortgage is paid out. I will be married 25 years but I don’t know that’s something to celebrate. If I’d run over him in a car I’d be free by now.

I don’t mean that nasty, it’s just my sick sense of humor coming to my rescue.

 

[minkymurph]

That could play into the problem - and it is terribly unhealthy for him. They have a lot of sugar and a lot more caffeine.

I am going to type part of the Al-Anon introduction that is read at the start of every meeting. I think you will realize that what you are seeking can be found in Al-Anon meetings.
**************** Meeting opening

We welcome you to the ____ Al-Anon Family Group and hope you will find in this fellowship the help and friendship we have been privileged to enjoy.

**We who live with, or have lived with, the problem of alcoholism, understand as perhaps few others can. We, too, were lonely and frustrated, but in Al-Anon we discover that no situation is really hopeless and that it is possible for us to find contentment and even happiness whether the alcoholic is drinking or not.
**
We urge you to try our program. It has helped many of us find solutions that lead to serenity. And as we learn to place our problem in its true perspective, we find it loses its power to dominate our thoughts and our lives.

The family situation is bound to improve as we apply the Al-Anon ideas. Without such spiritual help, living with an alcoholic is too much for most of us. Our thinking becomes distorted by trying to force solutions, and we become irritable and unreasonable without knowing it.

The Al-Anon Program is based on the Twelve Suggested Steps of Alcoholics Anonymous, which we try, little by little, one day at a time, to apply to our lives, along with our slogans and the Serenity Prayer. The loving interchange of help among members and daily reading of Al-Anon literature thus make us ready to receive the priceless gift of serenity.

---

THIS IS ALL TRUE. It will work if you work the steps. It is not the only way to live with an alcoholic, but it is one of the best ways.

and remember, Al-Anon members should NOT give you advice on leaving your husband. They will listen to you, and share their own experience, strength, and hope, but will NOT advise you to leave or stay.

I am listening. I will take on board what you say and look into it.

 

[minkymurph]

Here is the reality, what is happening right now, both the wife and children are being abused. Full stop. She states it in her original post.
Why are we predicting things and planning for things that may or may not occur in the future? How do we know that infidelity will happen? Why endure any continued abuse for a “what if” scenario?
If one of the spouses does decide to commit adultery as well…then all you can do is pray…and pray hard for them. That and continue to protect the children.

The poster is not too far off the mark were infidelity is concerned. We haven’t been intimate for 7 years. I raised this point with my husband. He told me if I wanted someone else to go ahead. He even said he would pay for an ‘escort’ if that’s what I wanted. It has not been easy remaining faithful. The reason I remain faithful is not so much because of my marriage vows, but because of my self respect and because I’m not prepared to let myself be used, or use someone else I don’t care about and who doesn’t care about me.

 

[Kelfa28]

to the op…

While my arguments do not align up with your thought process…there is nothing I can say in regards of advice or counsel in your particular situation. I’m just a poster on CAF. I’m not a licensed therapist, physician or priest.

All I can do is pray for you (which, be assured, I’m sending prayers your way) and ask you to consider Al-Anon meetings. I’ve, personally, been to both Al-Anon and AA meetings when asked by friends to attend.

They are helpful and give a wealth of information for you to take advantage of…whatever you decide to do. They will give you the tools you need to handle your situation. They are experts and have lived through what you are living through. They know how to handle your situation expertly. Please…don’t hesitate to attend!

 

[Kelfa28]

The poster is not too far off the mark were infidelity is concerned. We haven’t been intimate for 7 years. I raised this point with my husband. He told me if I wanted someone else to go ahead. He even said he would pay for an ‘escort’ if that’s what I wanted. It has not been easy remaining faithful. The reason I remain faithful is not so much because of my marriage vows, but because of my self respect and because I’m not prepared to let myself be used, or use someone else I don’t care about and who doesn’t care about me.

I didn’t want to step on toes too much and wanted to keep the post as neutral as possible. I don’t imagine you would want to commit adultery.
I can’t speak for your husband. You said he is not Catholic anyway.

In my husband’s case…neither were practicing Catholics…though they were both baptized and confirmed…but no longer practice. In fact, my MIL started attending a pentacostal church to help cope with the abuse. When she left, she actually renounced her faith in order to justify her relationships with other men.

It wasn’t healthy…that is a fact. I won’t praise the split between my husband’s parents. I look at it as a necessary evil. It was a solution to the major, major problem that existed for 13 years within the marriage. Staying in that marriage would have been far, far worse for everyone involved…especially my husband. He welcomed the split…just to get away from the continued abuse from his alcoholic father.

 

[minkymurph]

I didn’t want to step on toes too much and wanted to keep the post as neutral as possible. I don’t imagine you would want to commit adultery.
I can’t speak for your husband. You said he is not Catholic anyway.

In my husband’s case…neither were practicing Catholics…though they were both baptized and confirmed…but no longer practice. In fact, my MIL started attending a pentacostal church to help cope with the abuse. When she left, she actually renounced her faith in order to justify her relationships with other men.

It wasn’t healthy…that is a fact. I won’t praise the split between my husband’s parents. I look at it as a necessary evil. It was a solution to the major, major problem that existed for 13 years within the marriage. Staying in that marriage would have been far, far worse for everyone involved…especially my husband. He welcomed the split…just to get away from the continued abuse from his alcoholic father.

I appreciate what you are saying. It is true some children are relieved, to say the least, when their mother leaves. I am not saying it is wrong for anyone to leave on account of alcoholism. There may well come a time when I decide to do that. I’m not convinced my time is now.

 

[minkymurph]

To the OP, I think you are doing the best you can and until you are financially able to leave,
I would get counseling for you and your boys. I would also avail myself of all the help I
could get by storming heaven for help and going to the sacraments, especially confession
and Mass and the Eucharist.
There have been many tough things going on in my life over the last couple of years, and
before that many years ago. Both times prayer (both mine and others) and my faith have
sustained me.
I will keep you in my prayers.

I appreciate this. I am doing the best I can until I am more financially secure. Thank you for understanding that.

Personally I think that may be something my husband is afraid of - the fact that someday he will outlive his usefulness and I won’t need him anymore.

 

[Bill_7154]

I have started this thread because I need help living with an alcoholic.

I am expecting some to say leave your husband, and I can understand why. I have chosen not to do that which I will explain. What I want, is anyone who can give me help in terms of managing a relationship with an alcoholic.

I am Catholic, my husband is not. I was not a Catholic when I married him and he agreed to bringing my children up Catholic and sending them to a Catholic school. I say this to show he is not completely unreasonable, to show he has confidence in me as their mother, but we do not sing from the same hymn sheet.

If I did not have kids, I think I would leave him.

I grew up in an alcoholic family. I suffered grealy because of this. If you were not Catholic would you leave him?

. . Nothing is ever right. He has to have his plate warmed for his dinner or there is a complaint, his dinner h I stay because a while ago my eldest son, who is 11, begged me not to divorce. He loves his dad, he is a daddies boy. My youngest son is mom’s boy, but he is autistic and would not handle a big change well. My kids love their dad, I have no doubt he loves them, but I am sick of the way he treats meas to be exa.

Your kids suffer because of this as well. I know from first hand experience. If the home is not peaceful, orderly, serene, filled with love and respect…they know and that is the model of how to be an adult, a parent, and a spouce come from. I don’t think given your situation that it is appropriate to mix words. Everyone in the house is suffering, including your husband.

I can eat nothing I like because he hates herbs and spices and even if I make another dinner for myself he complains about the smell. If the kids have garlic bread he complains about the smell. He expects me to have my mobile with me all the time so he can tell me to do things, he tells me I am fat, lazy, and do nothing but play computer games. I am a law student and I do all the housework. .

sounds very painful, for the children too. I’m sorry you experience this. I gre up in an alcoholic family and the children IMO suffer more than the spuose. They are just kids! The parents have a choice as to where they live, the kids are powerless in this area. I hope you and your children get through this OK, I didn’t.

God Bless,
Bill

 

[AnneElizabeth]

We’re talking about abuse here…not a run-of-the-mill “irreconcilable differences.” It’s not a situation where someone disagrees with someone else and fighting ensues. I may tentatively agree with you, hypothetically, if it was just the wife being abused. There could be an argument to keep the marriage together. But even then I don’t think anyone should endure abuse. Once you involve children within the abuse…it’s an entirely different ballgame. No child should suffer for the sake of doctrine that says marriage is final and a family must stay together, regardless of the situation and for the sake of tradition.
There is such as thing as common sense. I don’t think any priest on this planet would argue that you must keep a family together because “God hates divorce.” Especially when abuse is involved and especially if the abuse involves children.
They would recommend separation and counseling. Separation to get the children away from the abuse and counseling to repair the damage and potentially work through the problems.
If they do recommend staying together (even in cases of sexual assault, physical violence and incest)…that is a level of piousness I don’t want any part of…as orthodox as I am.

Here is the reality, what is happening right now, both the wife and children are being abused. Full stop. She states it in her original post.
Why are we predicting things and planning for things that may or may not occur in the future? How do we know that infidelity will happen? Why endure any continued abuse for a “what if” scenario?
If one of the spouses does decide to commit adultery as well…then all you can do is pray…and pray hard for them. That and continue to protect the children.

The abuse is very real but the infidelity is just a hypothetical. I don’t agree with this reasoning. My husband endured abuse within a family when the husband and wife were married. They are no longer married. They also have not had any subsequent marriages…but, yes, infidelity was rampant…after the separation. To be totally honest, it hurt him and his relationship with his parents. But he said he would take it over the abuse he suffered for 13 years. Ideally, for him, separation without any infidelity would have been ideal. But he was fine with the infidelity. Anything to get out of the continued abuse. He has a cordial relationship with his father and his father is allowed to visit his grandchild. But my husband has never lived with him or visited him for any length of time after the separation and his father has supervised visits with his grandchild…with both my husband and I home.

Children should never be subjected to any abuse. They are helpless and it’s the parent’s duty to protect them from abuse. I, personally, fail to see how staying in an abusive marriage is “better” for everyone. I fail to see an argument that states staying in an abusive marriage is better then separation…regardless of the outcome of the separation.

Hi Kelfa28,

Thanks for answering. I appreciate it.

How does that fit in with 1 Corinthians 7:13 -15? …That is, unless* he* left.

What about those saints who did not leave their abusive husbands, wives? Did the church do a wrong thing by holding them up as a good example to follow? Yes, those days were different, but should we judge things by modern standards or what we had always followed in the past?

 

[Kelfa28]

Hi Kelfa28,

Thanks for answering. I appreciate it.

How does that fit in with 1 Corinthians 7:13 -15? …That is, unless* he* left.

What about those saints who did not leave their abusive husbands, wives? Did the church do a wrong thing by holding them up as a good example to follow? Yes, those days were different, but should we judge things by modern standards or what we had always followed in the past?

That passage says nothing about abuse. Nothing. All it mentions is an unbelieving husband should have a wife that remains faithful. That husband could be completely honorable and moral…yet not a believer. Of course she shouldn’t leave this husband. It does disservice towards the many non-believing husbands who treat their wives with respect and dignity. I fail to see how that excerpt has anything to do with an abusive husband who does not treat his wife with respect and is harmful towards her and her children.

We are all called to be saints. And no, the Church did not do wrong by those particular saints who lived with an abusive spouse.

However, we do live in modern times. My husband put it perfectly. If it was cold outside, a husband would go and chop wood to provide warmth for his family. If he left…the wife would be expected to do this task. A task she very well not be equipped to handle. In todays world…a wife can just go an turn up the thermostat if she is cold. It is far easier for a woman to handle herself, on her own, in these modern times.

St. Mary, the blessed virgin was very young when she was betrothed to Joseph. This was custom in those times. A man took a longer time to become established enough to provide for a wife and children. He would marry a young bride. This is simply not the case anymore. Men and women are far more equal within marriage then they were two thousand years ago.

We follow examples of prayer and devotion. There is no reason why we shouldn’t stop the constant prayer for our spouses…regardless of what our spouses do. That does not mean we should be expected to take any form of abuse from our spouses. That is not healthy, not practical and devoid of all common sense. That does not mean we must condemn our spouses to Hell and totally give up on them. These saints prayed for their spouses continually…as should we. This is the example, I believe, we should live by. I highly doubt the Church expects spouses to endure the horrors of abuse, neglect and abandonment in order to become the saints that it expects us to be.

We are called to live by their example within the faith. There is nothing wrong…doctrinally…with living separately and chastely from our spouse for our own protection and well-being…while flooding heaven with our prayers for them.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I am listening. I will take on board what you say and look into it.

Well, it’s what you came here asking for, so I thought you’d like to know that it does exist.

 

[minkymurph]

Well, it’s what you came here asking for, so I thought you’d like to know that it does exist.

I had heard of it. I just couldn’t find anywhere locally. I rang a helpline for people who were concerned about a relatives drinking. The woman I spoke to just said your husband is not going to stop drinking, you have to decide whether your willing to stay and put up with it, or leave, and only you can make that decision. Technically she was right, but I’d kind worked that much out for myself and while I don’t imagine it would taken a great deal of effort or a long period of time to train someone to say put up with it or leave, a recorded message would save them money.

 

[Bill_7154]

I have NEVER covered for him at work. Funny thing is, he’s never missed time off work and is one of those guys who would go into work if he was dying…

My father, who was also an alcoholic, was just like this as well. He eventually started defending his drinking by saying “I go to work every day, bla bla…” (as if this gave him a right to drink whenever he wanted and as much as he wanted. I wanted my father. Such is life, it seems your getting along quite well yourself and you and your children in very difficult circumstances, it’s not easy, I know this.

It occurred to me that he could have depression, alcoholics often do. I don’t know if he would be open, but it’s potentially another angle to get at his drinking, and you will all be much happier if he is not depressed.

Another problem we have in my part of the world is people don’t see alcoholism as a big deal. Most people who drink are heavy drinkers and they think if your not being beaten about and you can pay you have no reason to leave. What I took for cutting my father off was unreal. I couldn’t believe people thought I was the one that was wrong. Not that I cared what they thought. My real friends did understand and they are the only one’s who matter. However leaving my husband just seems to be taboo. .

Taboo because your Catholic or because of the way your extended families view that? And there are online easy tests to see if your an alcoholic, like 10-20 questions, look at one and see how he rates. You can consider offering to look at one together if he asserts he doesn’t have a problem with alcohol. BTW, how often, and what does he drink? He’s functional (at work, not at home).

A solicitor told her under no circumstances leave the family home. If you do, the court will see it that you are the one who walked out on the marriage and he will get the house. That happened to my uncle as well. He left because his wife was having affairs and she got the house because he left the family home…

I have learned this as well, the uncle “abandoned” his family. I’m not sure what would happen if a wife left with the kids for their safety however but agree you shouldn’t have to be the one to leave if you decide to split even if he disagrees, you can file for divorce anyway I believe. Might be a good idea to start documenting incidents of his behavior now, just in case. Don’t write a novel about minor stuff, but certainly document the big things with date and time and who was home (if it happened at home).

YOur doing better than I expected, and have a realistic outlook when I expected you may not have that. So IMO your doing GREAT!

Peace and God Bless,
Bill

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I had heard of it. I just couldn’t find anywhere locally. I rang a helpline for people who were concerned about a relatives drinking. The woman I spoke to just said your husband is not going to stop drinking, you have to decide whether your willing to stay and put up with it, or leave, and only you can make that decision. Technically she was right, but I’d kind worked that much out for myself and while I don’t imagine it would taken a great deal of effort or a long period of time to train someone to say put up with it or leave, a recorded message would save them money.

Was it Al-Anon specifically? The way you describe it, sounds somewhat like Al-Anon in the “concerned about a relative’s drinking,” but Al-Anon is not really about whether your spouse or other relative or friend stops drinking or not. It’s about YOU and how YOU live your life whether they do or not. When people first come into Al-Anon, they talk about the alcoholic almost exclusively. What he is doing, what she is doing, what he did last week, how much pain they are causing, etc. etc. etc. It’s what they have been doing all along, and suddenly someone is listening to them, so it’s a relief to tell the story. After a while, they start to listen more in the meetings and they don’t hear us talking about the alcoholic, but our OWN programs. And they are puzzled, and intrigued. They start asking questions, and they get a sponsor, and start working the steps. Then they understand - that they are pulling the power and focus away from the alcohol/alcoholic and putting it back into the things they CAN control, which is themselves and their own choices. And an Al-Anon should NOT have said, “Your husband is NOT going to stop drinking.” Alcoholics choose recovery every day, and there is never a time when their choice to recover cannot be made, so that person was 100% wrong to say that. Perhaps she meant, “There is NOTHING YOU CAN DO to get your husband to stop drinking,” and that would be correct. Your husband has to choose recovery for himself, you can’t make him choose it. Many times, as the opening says, when the spouse starts to recover, they set different boundaries and this wakes the alcoholic up enough to choose their own recovery, but not always. But I would NEVER tell a spouse that their alcoholic won’t ever stop drinking. What you need to do is live your life each day for YOU and your kids, and not continue to react to him. It’s a very tall order and that’s why we need one another for support.

Al-Anon usually has a regional office, with hired workers who answer the phone, but on nights and weekends, they will forward the phones to members who volunteer. In our area, those volunteers aren’t necessarily trained in what to say and what not to say. The issue is not really whether or not you leave your husband. It’s how YOU are going to live your life on a daily basis, whether or not you leave him. That choice really doesn’t have to be made until or unless you are ready to make it, and no one can tell you when/if it’s time to do that. Only YOU can decide that, from prayer and contact with God. We say frequently, “You’ll know when you know.” Many people come in feeling a sense of urgency and yet fear of what their lives will be like without the alcoholic. They relax once they find out Al-Anon is not going to tell them to kick the alcoholic out before they are ready to do so. And if they decide not to do that, they can still live a good life. I will admit that it’s harder to do so, no doubt, if the alcoholic does not choose recovery. But I know people who have done just that.

My husband is not my “qualifier,” although he does have other addictions. My mother’s father was a violent alcoholic and a couple of her brothers went that way too. I get a lot out of Al-Anon. It has helped me live a happier life. I would be who I am no matter what my husband did or didn’t do. And so would you, since you grew up with alcoholism. Al-Anon has an entire daily reader directed toward adult children of alcoholics, it’s called, “Hope for Today.”

Here are the meetings in the Republic of Ireland. It seems like there are meetings everywhere.

All towns/ all counties

And here are the meetings in Northern Ireland. Again, a lot of meetings.

Northern Ireland

I think if you can’t find a meeting to attend, you’re not trying hard enough. Whatever. You have to want recovery before you will seek it.