I don't understand Traditionalism and its hurting my marriage

[NFP1Kate]

I don’t think I even know how to phrase this question. I am Catholic, always have been, and raised in a post Vatican II Church.

My husband became a Traditionalist 3 months after we were married and it has been very difficult to understand and reconcile this change in him.

I am very conservative and I follow Church teaching as closely as I know how to. My husband doesn’t like going to Mass at our Parish, he sometimes wonders if it is valid, and he wants to go to the Latin Mass exclusively and live like those people do. I don’t understand how I am doing anything wrong if I am following our Church and doctrines.

I have been reading that the SSPX community might be in full communion soon. I don’t have any idea what that means for us. I have read that Archbishop Lefevbre abandoned the Church, and taught that the devil penetrated the officials and the faithful should only go to his Church. How is that not the same thing Martin Luther did??

 

[Armyvet007]

Other then stating my opinion [he’s out of line] I don’t have much advice or help for you.

 

[Allegra]

I don’t think I even know how to phrase this question. I am Catholic, always have been, and raised in a post Vatican II Church.

My husband became a Traditionalist 3 months after we were married and it has been very difficult to understand and reconcile this change in him.

I am very conservative and I follow Church teaching as closely as I know how to. My husband doesn’t like going to Mass at our Parish, he sometimes wonders if it is valid, and he wants to go to the Latin Mass exclusively and live like those people do. I don’t understand how I am doing anything wrong if I am following our Church and doctrines.

I have been reading that the SSPX community might be in full communion soon. I don’t have any idea what that means for us. I have read that Archbishop Lefevbre abandoned the Church, and taught that the devil penetrated the officials and the faithful should only go to his Church. How is that not the same thing Martin Luther did??

I think you are perfectly within your right to refuse to attend a church that is not in full communion with the Catholic Church. Do you have the opportunity to attend a Traditional Mass that is offered by a licit parish or community? Perhaps that might be a possible compromise?

 

[Jacob_Dominic]

I am a life long traditoinalist and my children only know traditional Catholicism. We are in a FSSP parish. It is a dream. Children will go off on their own and pray the rosary together, or the stations of the cross, all their friends wear scapulars, carry rosaries, stop at noon and pray the angelus ( all in latin) etc. They are around positive Holy peer pressure. I couldn’t invent a better Catholic environment than a traditional parish.Our whole lives revolve around the traditional calendar observing Ember Days, Rogation Days etc, It sounds like you aren’t experiencing this. I don’t know what kind of latin Mass parish your husband wants to attend. I think you and your husband should go on a retreat together at a FSSP church ( not SSPX) spend time being there schedule time to be with a traditional priest and talk about it,have your questions asked, and let your husband know your concerns The SSPX may come back in the Church real soon, I used to go there up to 1988. I urge you both to make a retreat togther without kids to a traditional parish to experience what it is like and spend time with a traditinal priest, they will be able to help. Bedsides the FSSP, there are the Institute of Chrsit the King and others. Do not do this with a novus ordo priest that happens to say a latin mass, they are not formed in any way like a traditional priest and will not have the grace of state like a traditional priest.You will see the difference at once. Let me know if I can help, saving a marriage is PRIORITY ONE !!! I will pray for you and your husband tomorrow before the altar of Mary at my church.

 

[floresco]

Kate, I am in this same situation. In our marriage, I am the trad and my husband a faithful Catholic who prefers the OF Mass. This was hurting our marriage a lot and we were really struggling to understand each other. I went to a priest for advice and I found his words very helpful.

I had told the priest that I felt like I was in a mixed marriage and told me that it was important to be clear in my mind that I was not. My husband and I are both Catholic. Although we are disagreeing about some matters, we share the same faith. It has helped me to keep reminding myself of this.

I am like your husband in that attending the Ordinary Form of the Mass is very difficult for me. It is filled with things that distract and annoy me. I feel out of place there. I leave feeling spiritually and emotionally drained, rather than nourished and uplifted. At the Latin Mass (aka the Extraordinary Form), I feel at home and at peace. The words of the Mass make more sense to me as an expression of the Catholic faith. I feel more connected to the Church throughout history.

It is not that I think that people who go to Ordinary Form are bad Catholics. I know that my husband is a good man and a good Catholic. He is a better Catholic than I am. He is not doing anything wrong by attending a Mass that is approved by the Church.

I think that the situation for trad/non-trad marriages will improve if the SSPX is regularized. I think this regularization would bring with it some guidelines that will help us. And perhaps you could try to be more sympathetic to the SSPX by looking at it from their perspective.

Archbishop Lefebvre was acting out of love for the faith and concern for souls. It was a time when the traditional Latin Mass was being suppressed and many Catholics were hurt and bewildered by the changes. He wanted to preserve the Mass to help these people. He believed that he was forced by necessity to ordain bishops without the permission of the Pope. He was a good man acting from good motives living in confusing times when it was hard to see what was the right thing to do. Some people were using Vatican II as an excuse to change the Faith. Catholicism seemed under attack.

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

I don’t think I even know how to phrase this question. I am Catholic, always have been, and raised in a post Vatican II Church.

My husband became a Traditionalist 3 months after we were married and it has been very difficult to understand and reconcile this change in him.

I am very conservative and I follow Church teaching as closely as I know how to. My husband doesn’t like going to Mass at our Parish, he sometimes wonders if it is valid, and he wants to go to the Latin Mass exclusively and live like those people do. I don’t understand how I am doing anything wrong if I am following our Church and doctrines.

I have been reading that the SSPX community might be in full communion soon. I don’t have any idea what that means for us. I have read that Archbishop Lefevbre abandoned the Church, and taught that the devil penetrated the officials and the faithful should only go to his Church. How is that not the same thing Martin Luther did??

Patience, patience, patience.
I guess that is all you’ve got to have.
The Pope is opening the doors wide open to the SSPX but I am very pessimistic. It is enough to go to their sites to see violent attacks to the Pope which is not acceptable in the Catholic Church.
But their sacraments are valid, all they do is valid.
I would advise you to be patient and pray…and put yourself into God’s hands…

 

[NFP1Kate]

I have tried to compromise with him by occasionally attending a Parish that is a solemn Latin Novus Ordo Mass, Holy Rosary in Portland. It is not close, but not terribly far. They have a large thriving community and a beautiful Church, but no school, only homeschooling families.

Jacob Dominic and Floresco- Please bear with me, I really appreciate your advice, I have been wanting to ask someone so badly for the last 3.5 years and there has been no one to ask.

Holy Rosary is a nice parish, but I feel out of place there. I feel sort of judged, I guess. I have no friends there and all the families are big, like 10 kids or more. I am young and only have 3 kids. I am afraid they wont accept me because the idea of having 10+ kids terrifies me. I think they will look at me like I am liberal, but I’m not at all. I want my kids to pray the rosary daily and have good faithful friends. I want everything that you said, Jacob Dominic. But I don’t know any Latin, I have a lot of trouble following. My kids pull my veil off and I always look like a mess.

 

[floresco]

Holy Rosary is a nice parish, but I feel out of place there. I feel sort of judged, I guess. I have no friends there and all the families are big, like 10 kids or more. I am young and only have 3 kids. I am afraid they wont accept me because the idea of having 10+ kids terrifies me. I think they will look at me like I am liberal, but I’m not at all. I want my kids to pray the rosary daily and have good faithful friends. I want everything that you said, Jacob Dominic. But I don’t know any Latin, I have a lot of trouble following. My kids pull my veil off and I always look like a mess.

Obviously I don’t know what the people are like in this parish, but it sounds like you are afraid of being judged rather than actually being judged. Pray for courage and give them a chance. Maybe they will be friendly.

People rarely go straight from having 3 children to 10 children. If you were to eventually end up with a large family you would grow into it gradually. Be open to what God wants for you and He will give you all the graces you need for however many children He gives you. Trust Him and don’t be afraid.

With time you probably will pick up some Latin, although it really isn’t necessary. If you want to learn more I recommend this book and CD :

Understanding the Latin Mass: Hear and Learn the Words of the Novus Ordo
Text and Audio CD by Marion P. Smedberg

Explore the meaning and pronunciation of the Latin words of the Mass with this book and its accompanying audio CD. Each word of the Latin Novus Ordo Mass is spoken clearly and translated literally, and the form by which you would look it up in a Latin dictionary is given. Then, to help you remember the meaning of the Latin word, the author gives you English words which come from the Latin word. For example, dominus means “Lord, master,” and an English word which comes from dominus is dominate, the way a master would dominate his domain.

prostores3.carrierzone.com/servlet/understandinglatin_com/StoreFront

Also, Fr. Coulter has a list of helpful links here: frcoulter.com/presentations/latin-novus-ordo.html

If you are having trouble with a veil, perhaps another form of head-covering would work better for you. Perhaps you could try a beret, cloche or hat. Or you could wear a scarf tied at the back of your head. This tends to be fairly secure.

You sound like you are feeling overwhelmed by all these things. That is not surprising. Your husband should be a source of strength who encourages you to work through them. But if you are feeling cut off from him by your religious differences, then you are facing them alone. Let him know how much you need him. He loves you and will try harder to overcome the barriers that are separating you.

 

[edwest2]

You should try to be less concerned about what other people think. You and your husband should sit down with a priest and discuss the issues. Simply guessing or feeling helpless will not change things.

It was not Vatican II that caused any problems. It was the dissidents inside and outside the Church. I was there before and after Vatican II. I did not love God less when the Mass in English became available. There was no division for me. I was in Catholic school at the time. Those who demanded change, in some cases, were causing confusion.

Peace,
Ed

 

[Cider]

I have tried to compromise with him by occasionally attending a Parish that is a solemn Latin Novus Ordo Mass, Holy Rosary in Portland. It is not close, but not terribly far. They have a large thriving community and a beautiful Church, but no school, only homeschooling families.

Jacob Dominic and Floresco- Please bear with me, I really appreciate your advice, I have been wanting to ask someone so badly for the last 3.5 years and there has been no one to ask.

Holy Rosary is a nice parish, but I feel out of place there. I feel sort of judged, I guess. I have no friends there and all the families are big, like 10 kids or more. I am young and only have 3 kids. I am afraid they wont accept me because the idea of having 10+ kids terrifies me. I think they will look at me like I am liberal, but I’m not at all. I want my kids to pray the rosary daily and have good faithful friends. I want everything that you said, Jacob Dominic. But I don’t know any Latin, I have a lot of trouble following. My kids pull my veil off and I always look like a mess.

As someone that attended mass at an SSPX chapel for awhile I never saw anyone judging people on the number of kids they have or the other things you described. Kids act up sometimes. I actually never saw a dirty look given to parents of kids acting out at the Latin mass. The people there want children there in mass, not left home or behind a glass wall in the cry room. They want kids to learn and live the faith and they know that only happens if they are brought to mass.

Try not to worry about what you think others might be thinking. They are just grateful you are at mass.

 

[severus68]

I am a life long traditoinalist and my children only know traditional Catholicism. We are in a FSSP parish. It is a dream. Children will go off on their own and pray the rosary together, or the stations of the cross, all their friends wear scapulars, carry rosaries, stop at noon and pray the angelus ( all in latin) etc. They are around positive Holy peer pressure. I couldn’t invent a better Catholic environment than a traditional parish.Our whole lives revolve around the traditional calendar observing Ember Days, Rogation Days etc, It sounds like you aren’t experiencing this. I don’t know what kind of latin Mass parish your husband wants to attend. I think you and your husband should go on a retreat together at a FSSP church ( not SSPX) spend time being there schedule time to be with a traditional priest and talk about it,have your questions asked, and let your husband know your concerns The SSPX may come back in the Church real soon, I used to go there up to 1988. I urge you both to make a retreat togther without kids to a traditional parish to experience what it is like and spend time with a traditinal priest, they will be able to help. Bedsides the FSSP, there are the Institute of Chrsit the King and others. **Do not do this with a novus ordo priest that happens to say a latin mass, they are not formed in any way like a traditional priest and will not have the grace of state like a traditional priest.**You will see the difference at once. Let me know if I can help, saving a marriage is PRIORITY ONE !!! I will pray for you and your husband tomorrow before the altar of Mary at my church.

It is not acceptable to speak in the manner you have of a priest (your words bolded.

 

[Walking_Home]

I am a life long traditoinalist and my children only know traditional Catholicism. We are in a FSSP parish. It is a dream. Children will go off on their own and pray the rosary together, or the stations of the cross, all their friends wear scapulars, carry rosaries, stop at noon and pray the angelus ( all in latin) etc. They are around positive Holy peer pressure. I couldn’t invent a better Catholic environment than a traditional parish.Our whole lives revolve around the traditional calendar observing Ember Days, Rogation Days etc, It sounds like you aren’t experiencing this. I don’t know what kind of latin Mass parish your husband wants to attend. I think you and your husband should go on a retreat together at a FSSP church ( not SSPX) spend time being there schedule time to be with a traditional priest and talk about it,have your questions asked, and let your husband know your concerns The SSPX may come back in the Church real soon, I used to go there up to 1988. I urge you both to make a retreat togther without kids to a traditional parish to experience what it is like and spend time with a traditinal priest, they will be able to help. Bedsides the FSSP, there are the Institute of Chrsit the King and others**. Do not do this with a novus ordo priest that happens to say a latin mass, they are not formed in any way like a traditional priest and will not have the grace of state like a traditional priest.**You will see the difference at once. Let me know if I can help, saving a marriage is PRIORITY ONE !!! I will pray for you and your husband tomorrow before the altar of Mary at my church.

---

I do hope this falsehood – is not something coming from the FSSP itself.

 

[Diana_Catherine]

I am a life long traditoinalist and my children only know traditional Catholicism. We are in a FSSP parish. It is a dream. Children will go off on their own and pray the rosary together, or the stations of the cross, all their friends wear scapulars, carry rosaries, stop at noon and pray the angelus ( all in latin) etc. They are around positive Holy peer pressure. I couldn’t invent a better Catholic environment than a traditional parish.Our whole lives revolve around the traditional calendar observing Ember Days, Rogation Days etc,

,

Wow, that sounds awesome. There are not any traditional parishes near us but it would be great if there was.

 

[Diana_Catherine]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob Dominic
I am a life long traditoinalist and my children only know traditional Catholicism. We are in a FSSP parish. It is a dream. Children will go off on their own and pray the rosary together, or the stations of the cross, all their friends wear scapulars, carry rosaries, stop at noon and pray the angelus ( all in latin) etc. They are around positive Holy peer pressure. I couldn’t invent a better Catholic environment than a traditional parish.Our whole lives revolve around the traditional calendar observing Ember Days, Rogation Days etc, It sounds like you aren’t experiencing this. I don’t know what kind of latin Mass parish your husband wants to attend. I think you and your husband should go on a retreat together at a FSSP church ( not SSPX) spend time being there schedule time to be with a traditional priest and talk about it,have your questions asked, and let your husband know your concerns The SSPX may come back in the Church real soon, I used to go there up to 1988. I urge you both to make a retreat togther without kids to a traditional parish to experience what it is like and spend time with a traditinal priest, they will be able to help. Bedsides the FSSP, there are the Institute of Chrsit the King and others. **Do not do this with a novus ordo priest that happens to say a latin mass, they are not formed in any way like a traditional priest and will not have the grace of state like a traditional priest.**You will see the difference at once. Let me know if I can help, saving a marriage is PRIORITY ONE !!! I will pray for you and your husband tomorrow before the altar of Mary at my church.

It is not acceptable to speak in the manner you have of a priest (your words bolded.

I don’t think he is speaking bad of a novus ordo priest. I think he is just trying to say that to understand what a traditional parish is like you need to speak with a priest from a traditional parish and that a priest who is not from a traditional parish such as the FSSP would not be able to give the same advice or information about a traditional parish.

 

[NFP1Kate]

The formation of a Novus Ordo priest and that of a traditionalist priest is likely quite different. As I understand it, traditionalists priests have much more knowledge of Thomistic theology.

 

[Melchior_1]

The formation of a Novus Ordo priest and that of a traditionalist priest is likely quite different. As I understand it, traditionalists priests have much more knowledge of Thomistic theology.

Not true. Dominicans are often not classified as “traditionalists”, yet they obviously have a few Thomists running about.

Aquinas is the Angelic Doctor and a renowned philosopher. Several Priests will study him in their formation, regardless of the Form they celebrate Mass in.

 

[Megan7]

,

Wow, that sounds awesome. There are not any traditional parishes near us but it would be great if there was.

I just read “Jacob Dominic”'s post inside of Diana Catherine’s post,

but I cannot find Jacob Dominic’s actual post

I would really like to know where this FSSP parish is located, it sounds amazing! Unless I am going blind I can’t find his post ??

If anyone can help me with this, I would appreciate it!
Many thanks,

Blessings,
Pax,

Megan

 

[Chatter163]

Not true. Dominicans are often not classified as “traditionalists”, yet they obviously have a few Thomists running about.

Aquinas is the Angelic Doctor and a renowned philosopher. Several Priests will study him in their formation, regardless of the Form they celebrate Mass in.

Actually, this is quite true. Formation in Thomistic theology It is one of the distinguishing features of the formation of the FSSP and ICRSS priests. In this way it resembles the pre-Vatican II formation process used in all seminaries.

 

[Melchior_1]

Actually, this is quite true. Formation in Thomistic theology It is one of the distinguishing features of the formation of the FSSP and ICRSS priests. In this way it resembles the pre-Vatican II formation process used in all seminaries.

Thomistic theology is still available in several seminaries not associated with the FSSP ICRSS. Further, some prospective priests study Thomism on the way to their degrees.

And of course, you are more than welcome to challenge some of my family members in the arena of Thomism

 

[Cat]

I think we should not debate theology in this thread, but try to help the poor woman who posted the OP. Her marriage is ill, she is suffering, nd I’m guessing she really doesn’t care about Aquinas right now.

I don’t really have any help for her. I just feel so sorry for her.

The only suggestion I have is that she talk to a counselor who is also a devoted Catholic, but I’m not sure what her resources are; i.e., does she have the money and the transportation, and of course, the freedom, to go on her own to a counselor? I hope so.