I feel like my marriage is dead

[Corki]

If I could cut off my sex drive I would. I don’t want to feel this way! I don’t think it is shallow to want sex and it is a very very important part of marriage. So important in fact that if you can’t have sex you can’t get married in the Catholic Church!

I refuse to agree that it is a “happy extra” in a marriage.

In answer to your question as far as I know he hasn’t been unfaithful and he doesn’t send us into bankruptcy though our finances are dreadful at the moment.

Yes, sex is important. I said that. And since you have children, I don’t think the comment about valid marriage is on point. Note that the Church says if you can’t have sex **at least once **you can’t get married.

But you seem to be confusing intimacy with sex. I see from some of your other posts you have only been married a few years. As an “old married woman” may I suggest you take a step back and try to get a longer view point? I have been married over 20 years. There were times when sex was the last thing on my mind and times when it was the last thing on my husband’s mind. Those times don’t usually match. In the later times, I had to be the initiator. There were times when we had medical issues that made sex impossible for months; there were times when work separated us for long periods of time and there were times when we were just too tired. If we defined intimacy as “sex”, we would not still be married.

 

[bumby]

I am aware there is a difference between sex and intimacy. I want sexual intimacy. Cuddles are great but they aren’t sexual. Besides the fact I hug my parents, if you get my drift. He told me he isn’t the kind of person who likes kissing. I feel like asking him why he married me if he isn’t “That kind of person.”

 

[Oh_Charlotte]

[applying to OP, have not read other posts yet, so sorry if I repeat others]:

If I could cut off my sex drive I would. I don’t want to feel this way! I don’t think it is shallow to want sex and it is a very very important part of marriage. So important in fact that if you can’t have sex you can’t get married in the Catholic Church!

I refuse to agree that it is a “happy extra” in a marriage.

In answer to your question as far as I know he hasn’t been unfaithful and he doesn’t send us into bankruptcy though our finances are dreadful at the moment.

I agree you should keep pursuing this in counseling, and if you are not sure how Catholic your counselors advice is, take the advice to a Catholic priest to be sure. Scripture says, Never tire of doing the right thing. Ask God for His help with that, which is His desire - that you continue to do the right things even when its tiring, like you have been. He will give you the grace to do His Will. The Sacraments are what you need, so be faithful to them, they will be your supernatural help in this.

Scripture also tells us to “Be angry, but sin not”, and I would that an extra step further to say it probably also means, “Be sad and unhappy about your husband’s lack of interest in marital intimacy, but sin not”.

Stick with this unhappiness and keep taking it to the Lord and seeking the answer. It may have many layers. [It may be ED, but consider natural solutions to that, not Viagra, please! Seriously, do some Googling and you will discover there are other solutions.] Plus I think you can enjoy intimacy before that problem is solved, anyway. Its lack of desire that is his problem.

Ask God for comfort and patience that it will be solved, as you pursue it, turning up nothing firm (oops! Pardon the pun!) at first, probably.

Yes, you are right, you should refuse to believe that sex is just a “happy extra” in marriage. Somewhere in this forum I discussed marital sex and a man here wrote beautifully of his love for his long time wife (they are grandparents) and how he loves her so much and their children and their life, how he even loves just seeing her it the sitting in the same room with him working on a project, the sight of her makes his heart happy. And, how they love their time together in the bedroom. He wrote, “Sex is the goods of marriage.”

It struck me that is how marraige is supposed to be. Yes, I agree with you, sex is more than a “happy extra” in marriage!

You are longing for the greater good of marriage which is how God designed marriage to be. You sense the truth of your situation; something is missing, something is not as it should be.

I had a “:marraige”, soon to be annulled, that never was this and never could be. But he was living what it is supposed to be. So fulfilling in every way, including in the bedroom. That is the “goods” of marriage. I thin he is right, and i think you do, too, and that is why when all other things are well, its not okay with you that this is not well.

So I hope you can stick with the problem patiently and keep asking God for His help and trusting him.

I saw the movie “Hope Springs”, with Meryl Streep, this summer, and you might like it. It sort of speaks to your problem. Its not a Catholic solution, but there is a truth to the intimacy difficulties, and a deeper truth to the ending scene which I think you will get. And there is truth to the middle of it, where you see that its a* journey*, not an easy one, and that sometimes things get worse before they get better. I think it might inspire you!

 

[Oh_Charlotte]

From Bumpy: “Right on the nose, Slotty.”

 

[Lucky7]

I think others have given you good advice. I skimmed through those posts and forgive me if it was already mentioned, but I think you should stop discussing this with friends/family members. Think about how you would feel if the situation was reversed and he contemplated talking to his grandmother?!

Get thee to counseling (start with yourself, then couples counseling).

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I think it’s a good idea I seek out some advice. I could ask my grandma but she is a bit too close, perhaps. She is an amazing woman. I have gone so far as to instigate but not have proper sex, iykwim. I see him cringing (I kid you not) and give up. Perhaps he is gay. I have asked him before and he said no.

Geez, Bumby, he cringes when you initiate sex??



Just because he says he isn’t gay, doesn’t mean it’s true. I can’t think of a single reason that a normal, healthy heterosexual male would cringe if his wife initiated sex.

 

[Oh_Charlotte]

Geez, Bumby, he cringes when you initiate sex??



Just because he says he isn’t gay, doesn’t mean it’s true. I can’t think of a single reason that a normal, healthy heterosexual male would cringe if his wife initiated sex.

Yeah, sad that he cringes, what rejection. She can identify with Jesus who knows rejection.

I can think of reasons though. Well for one, my Narcissist ex, sex was not for him once he “got” me, about immediately after the wedding. Which is par for the course for a Narcissist, except for the somatic types, which are less typical. I don’t think this is Bumby’s husband’s problem, it sounds like the problem is just this (a problem!). But there could be other emotional problems, the seriousness of which, and kind, a counselor could identify.

Also we are all damaged to some degree or another, born-into and brought up in this sinful world, carrying also, I understand, the sins of our father’s generations, and more, for sure. So it could be spiritual trauma even if the psychologist has another name for it. Therefore, also think about looking into spiritual healing.

The book, Healing the Wounded Spirit opened my eyes to the reality of spirtual healing. Its protestant, but there are healing ministries by Catholics too. My first effort at spirtual healing, which made a giant dent in my past trauma, was through a ministry associated with the authors of that book. They had several “ministers” working with them, and I chose the Catholic one, and she, with her questions and directions and much prayer, led me though a lot of healing.

I had another inner healing that the Lord led me to in October, for different reasons. And I thought I was good! But after the healing, it was clear, much work had needed to be done in me, and was!

So we all have trauma from living in this life, to some degree or another, and we all have wounds, and Jesus wants to heal our wounds and make us whole. That Bumpy is not just complacent about the dysfunction in her marraige, but bothered by it, may be an indication that God is telling her He does mean for them to have more, and that they should seek His healing.

Just a thought.

 

[slotty]

He told me he isn’t the kind of person who likes kissing. I feel like asking him why he married me if he isn’t “That kind of person.”

You shouldn’t be asking why he married you. That would be a horrible question to ask it would imply something is wrong with him and would be hurtful. Perhaps just ask why he doesn’t like kissing.

I thought some extracts from Humanae Vitae may be pertinent to your situation.

God Bless
God’s loving design 8.
“husband and wife, through that mutual gift of themselves, which is specific and exclusive to them alone, develop that union of two persons in which they perfect one another”

Married Love 9.
It is a love which is total—that very special form of personal friendship in which husband and wife generously share everything…
Not thinking solely of their own convenience…
Whoever really loves his partner loves not only for what he receives, but loves that partner for the partner’s own sake…*

 

[kelvinf]

Hi Bumby,

I remember you. I think you first posted here about 2 years ago complaining about your sexless marriage (your husband’s very, very low sex drive) and later, your husband’s female friend(s).

We are now in 2012, meaning you have been having this issue of sex in your marriage for 4 years now.

I can imagine how difficult things have been for you all these years. I admire your effort to protect your marriage and in carrying your cross, hopefully all the way to calvary.

I have always believed that the situation in your marriage is very complex and you really need the help of counsellors. Propably long-term counselling.

God bless!

PS: I can’t remember if you guys ever went to a doctor re his issues regarding sex as was advised here.(?)

 

[bumby]

KelvinF

We need counselling I know but we can’t afford it. Money is extremely tight.

He did see a doc about whether it was medical but he was given a clean bill of health.

Four years is nothing. There are some folks on here that have had 20 years of it. And that is what worries me.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

KelvinF

We need counselling I know but we can’t afford it. Money is extremely tight.

He did see a doc about whether it was medical but he was given a clean bill of health.

Four years is nothing. There are some folks on here that have had 20 years of it. And that is what worries me.

Catholic Charities.

Catholic Charities.

Catholic Charities.

There is no charge for counseling for low-income people. They work on a sliding income scale.

 

[bumby]

Thanks so much TheRealJuliane but I don’t think we would qualify. It isn’t that we are necessarily on a low income because we both work. However we have a lot of outgoings - our childcare bill alone is £1350 a month.

Do they operate in the UK? I could phone them to see what they say.

 

[kelvinf]

KelvinF

We need counselling I know but we can’t afford it. Money is extremely tight.

He did see a doc about whether it was medical but he was given a clean bill of health.

Four years is nothing. There are some folks on here that have had 20 years of it. And that is what worries me.

Right, there are people here who have experienced such difficulties in their marriages over a very long period of time. The good news in your case is that, you have identified the problem early enough. What you must(!) now do is to take action.

I believe you need to make every effort in seeking support for your marriage.

I have visited the website of the UK Bishops expecting to find resources for married couples. Under the section Marriage and Family Life, they recommend services for married couples. I have visited all these sites in an effort to find an appropriate counselling service for you. They don’t really seem to be specifically for Catholics. But I singled out this one: Marriage Care. It’s a “pay-if-you-can” service and they offer face-to-face counselling or telephone counselling. So at least try it out.

Man, there are always regulations just like there are always exceptions. I personally don’t believe that if I badly need a service and can’t afford it, then I would completely be denied that service. I always try to make my case and strongly believe in “ask and it will be given to you”.

So you can go (don’t call) to any of the Catholic counselling services you know and make your case. Take your kids along with you and tell them that you badly need to save your marriage. In fact, if your children can speak, let them do the talking. Just sell your case in a unique way.

God Bless.

“43% of people asked said they wouldn’t want anyone to know if they’d seen a counsellor.” oneplusone.org.uk

 

[smallcat]

Are there Retrouvaille programs in your area? There is a fee for these, but they try to be generous about offering scholarships so that no one is turned away for lack of ability to pay. I cannot recommend Retrouvaille highly enough!

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Thanks so much TheRealJuliane but I don’t think we would qualify. It isn’t that we are necessarily on a low income because we both work. However we have a lot of outgoings - our childcare bill alone is £1350 a month.

Do they operate in the UK? I could phone them to see what they say.

Oh, I am sorry, I didn’t realize you were in the UK! Well there must be other Catholic services or social services that can help you, that’s what you pay all those taxes for!

 

[Oh_Charlotte]

There is a good chance he has spiritual wounds that impeded him. We all have spiritual wounds and Jesus wants to heal them. Eye opening books for me by John and Paula Sanford were Healing the Wounded Spirit and Transformation of the Inner Man.

Reading these books made me realize the whole world of spirtual healing and Jesus’ desire to make us whole (and the even one’s desire to keep us broken). It led me to seek spiritual healing, and I am a very different person because of it - whole. I do not think I could be looking into marraige now without that.

These books - there are others; I am recommending what I know) will open your eyes to the whole arena of spirtual healing. Its one of the gifts of the spirit bestowed on some, to lead people in this healing, calling on Jesus to heal all these aspects of a person. Once you grasp this and if you feel called to explore more, you can look for ministries near you. That particular ministry has trained people all over the world.

I also recommend the ministry, Freedom Encounters, which has also trained people worldwide.

You can read reviews on Amazon, and probably excerpts, and being budget-minded you might want to order on half.com

There are other ministries, too. Those are the ones I am familiar with, and that have changed my life.

 

[bumby]

Thank you all for your responses. I feel spurred on to finally get help. I’m planning to arrange an initial session next Tuesday for DH and I / just praying they won’t make an issue about the money.

Tonight has been better than last night. We got through the evening without accusing the other of soemthing or another I did give him a kiss in bed though and his reply was, “Goodnight!”

 

[tijeras]

Couple of books to recommend:

Gregory Popcak, 'For Better, For Ever, the Catholic Guide to Lifelong Marriage". FanTAStic psychotherapist, very Catholic, very funny, GREAT GREAT book, cannot recommend it enough. It’s the only marriage book i’ve ever thought worthwhile because he really gets to the heart of things. Please read this book.

Second, Gary Chapman’s “Five Love Languages” book. Popcak addresses this also in a way that gets more to the basis of how people work, but it never hurts to have backup, which Chapman provides.

The gist is this: different people have different “love languages”, that is, ways in which love is conveyed to them. Popcak divides it into audio, visual, or kinesthetic. Chapman has five: quality time, acts of service, physical contact, affirming words, and gifts.

The idea is, identify and learn your spouse’s love language. If he says he’s “just not that kind of person”, maybe physical contact just really isn’t something he craves (totally possible, not that weird really). For him to even offer to have sex with you if you feel like it is a pretty big deal of niceness and reaching out to you. Likewise, you need to figure out what means something to him and reach out to him, in his own love language.

Consider this: in order to fix your marriage, you’re going to have to focus not on what’s lacking in it for you, but figure out and try to fix what’s lacking in it for him. Perhaps once you reach him in his love language, he’ll be even better at trying to reach you in yours than just offering and then grimacing.

Love proves itself in sacrifice.

One thing on chores and guys: guys work hierarchically and girls work collaboratively, generally speaking. Guys don’t jump in and help each other, typically, but wait to be asked. Girls, however, work collaboratively, so we’re more likely to come in and ask, “is there anything I can do?” or identify something and ask, “can I peel the potatoes?” or something. Guys await invitation and instruction, Girls offer help, typically (obviously everyone’s different, but in wide swathes, this is generally how it goes). Learning this helped me a LOT in understanding how to work with my husband better.

Finally, using Natural Family Planning should help with your problem. Since it sounds like you have grave reason to postpone conception, you’ll need to use periodic continence. Periodic continence does a lot to build up the spice. It’s like this: I live in on the coast, so I basically never go to the beach. Why? Cause it’s always there. I totally take it for granted and it’s totally lost its allure for me. I find I don’t actually really like going to the beach anymore. When I lived in the San Joaquin Valley, I loved going tothe beach and jumped at any chance to go. Why? Because I knew I wouldn’t be able to go again for a while!

God bless your efforts. Unite your sufferings with those of our teens struggling for chastity in a world run by the pelvic-left.

 

[Okra27]

I used to feel the same way. After going to 12 step programs, I realized the reasons for my feelings of abandonment. My husband did not communicate well at all. We attended the Retrouvaille program and it was a God send. The couples who had divorced, separated, had affairs, were alcoholics were able with the grace of God to learn to communicate and ultimately have much, much stronger relationships. It is a program and requires some work but it is VERY worthwhile. We need to work on our marriages and ask God for help. Believe and act as if our Lord had and is helping us in our marriages. St. Raphael, the archangel is a patron saint for marriages.
I had an affair and felt awful, ashamed, and depressed for three years, it is not the solution. Whatever problems we have, we WILL take them to the next relationship. Please get help for yourself, even if he won’t go. Best to try Retrouvaille. 90% success rate for those who do the program!
God bless.

 

[Oh_Charlotte]

Couple of books to recommend:

Gregory Popcak, 'For Better, For Ever, the Catholic Guide to Lifelong Marriage". FanTAStic psychotherapist, very Catholic, very funny, GREAT GREAT book, cannot recommend it enough. It’s the only marriage book i’ve ever thought worthwhile because he really gets to the heart of things. Please read this book.

Second, Gary Chapman’s “Five Love Languages” book. Popcak addresses this also in a way that gets more to the basis of how people work, but it never hurts to have backup, which Chapman provides. …

These are both great books! Popcak’s gave me such a perspective of all the marriages around me, and my own of course (we were “Shipwrecked”!) And it gives hope, you see where you actually are and where you want to be, and you must work your way through the different stages of marriages to work up to a better one. It almost is like a path so you can see how you are going to get to where you want to go. I called once there for advice - Popcak has a counseling service. If you like the book, you might want to try phone counseling with them, which they do.

You can take five love languages quizzes for free on the internet. The book is good, too, of course. Its not hard to read; you can ask your husband to read it, or have him agree to take turns reading aloud with you for a certain amount of minutes each night. (f he is reluctant, bribe him with something he wants. (Too bad that won’t be sex!)

And I agree, Retrouvaille. I had such hope in it for our marraige for a time, but at the time I was trying to set it up, I did not realize my ex was embroiled in an affair and planning to surprise me with divorce (once his life with the woman was all set up after her divorce was finalized)* and that was the reason he would not go with me. Ug! What an awful mess that was. How glad I am to be far from that time. Yes, realize, there are other problems that could be worse! That doesn’t mean your problem is not very real, it is. Don’t give up! Trust God! Be patient!

*[Later my priest said of the girlfriend, “She did you a favor” and he was right. Some years out I can totally agree.]