I got the joy joy joy joy

[Writer]

dhgray:

I have to disagree with your analysis. The non-Catholics (a.k.a. “Born Agains”) are like teenagers who are in love for the first time. It’s all happy happy joy joy but there is no real committment.Basically it’s puppy love. CATHOLIC’s are like a marriage. In good times and bad, it’s the deep underlying love that brings us to deep reverance and respect of the Lord. BTW, I’m a Born Again Catholic so I get the best of both worlds thanks to the CFC.

I would encourage you to “judge not, lest not you be judged”. We all have room for personal improvement. Catholics don’t have a monopoly on devotion for Christ, and some of that Protestant devotion (and joy) runs very deep and is associated with incredibly sincere committments for Christ. Remember that there have been Protestants, such as Dietrich Bonhoeffer, who have died and are dying for their faith daily. We need to accept them as brothers and sisters in Christ who just haven’t figured out all the pieces yet. In my own experience, it is almost like these terrific minds and spirits have placed blinders on to the contradictions of their own belief system. Be that as it may, however, we should still respect and love them in Christ.

 

[Kitty_Chan]

Writer:

, it is almost like these terrific minds and spirits have placed blinders on to the contradictions of their own belief system. Be that as it may, however, we should still respect and love them in Christ.

Im glad even joyful that you write a nice response. But Im starting to really wonder about the constant reference to non catholics being blind and in error.

I have heard non catholics say that catholics have errors and strange things they believe.

Each side thinks the other is wrong somehow, but overall not bad guys and God will probably take them even though.

I think somedays He must have a headache.

 

[pira114]

In my experience, all the singing and laughing and dancing around are nothing more than a mask for the feeling of missing something. They all have a sense that they are missing something, so they make up for it by “acting” in extremes.

 

[Tonks40]

Kitty Chan:

Im glad even joyful that you write a nice response. But Im starting to really wonder about the constant reference to non catholics being blind and in error.

You know, I’ve been thinking about this notion for the past couple of days…why the focus on non-Catholics and the seperation of thought that devout, faithful, on-fire Catholics have towards them.

As a cradle Catholic that has reverted back to the Faith, these sentiments are not just here in the forums. I attend a Lenten Scripture study once a week with a couple of other women, all devout, all dedicated to the Church. Once we get into discussions about our Faith and sharing it with others, it never fails to focus on non-Catholics and their ideas on what they think Catholicism is about . I don’t know how many times we’ve referenced “this non-Catholic thinks” or “those non-Catholics believe.” It can get discouraging at times, trying to focus on compassion and love towards our neighbors, especially those who don’t share our Faith.

Then I realized - I think now, more than ever before, our Faith is being attacked by those outside the Church, and the attacks are getting more intense. Now, more than ever before, cradle Catholics who have suffered through the woes of the looseness of poor cathecesis are being lead away from the Truth. Those who stay are being called on in a way never before to step up and defend the Christianity we know to be the true Christianity. It breaks our hearts in such a way that we now find a need to take the offensive, to really highlight the differences between Catholics and non-Catholics, and to do our best to present the Truth to those we find are being misled.

Though we can never make any assumptions on the heart of someone outside of the Church, at the same time, we cannot in our right minds and morally compromise on the Truth.

Peace to you!

 

[oldfogey]

I know a LOT of people at work and socially who go on and on about how this and that friend or relative were “saved and accepted Jesus” last week etc. It’s all they talk about here in a very Baptist area.

And I don’t particularly see much difference in the way they treat each other, that is, their Christian viewpoint toward their neighbor in general. Not that Catholics are much better, but the “joy” sure doesn’t show much, except in their talk about what happens inside the walls of their churches.

 

[Writer]

Tonks40:

You know, I’ve been thinking about this notion for the past couple of days…why the focus on non-Catholics and the seperation of thought that devout, faithful, on-fire Catholics have towards them.

As a cradle Catholic that has reverted back to the Faith, these sentiments are not just here in the forums. I attend a Lenten Scripture study once a week with a couple of other women, all devout, all dedicated to the Church. Once we get into discussions about our Faith and sharing it with others, it never fails to focus on non-Catholics and their ideas on what they think Catholicism is about . I don’t know how many times we’ve referenced “this non-Catholic thinks” or “those non-Catholics believe.” It can get discouraging at times, trying to focus on compassion and love towards our neighbors, especially those who don’t share our Faith.

Then I realized - I think now, more than ever before, our Faith is being attacked by those outside the Church, and the attacks are getting more intense. Now, more than ever before, cradle Catholics who have suffered through the woes of the looseness of poor cathecesis are being lead away from the Truth. Those who stay are being called on in a way never before to step up and defend the Christianity we know to be the true Christianity. It breaks our hearts in such a way that we now find a need to take the offensive, to really highlight the differences between Catholics and non-Catholics, and to do our best to present the Truth to those we find are being misled.

Though we can never make any assumptions on the heart of someone outside of the Church, at the same time, we cannot in our right minds and morally compromise on the Truth.

Peace to you!

I guess one other observation is that it is really hard for a Catholic to understand the subtle (but important) differences between the denominations. As a former Protestant, it was even confusing to me at times. Catholics may be prone to generalizations about Protestants and Fundamentalists just because the differences are so confusing, and they latch onto those who are the most vocal or “excited” about their faith. Even Karl Keating’s great book on this made some broad and slightly misleading generalizations about Fundamentalists, but a Catholic would never notice the problems. I think this just exemplifies the confusion out there between Catholics and Protestants. It is a sad thing, but every time a new church is formed, we’re moving further and further away from the unifying force of a single Christian community.

To illustrate the confusion, look at the Lutheran Church. The Evangelical Lutheran Church of America is quite liberal. One Pro-Life group even pointed out that one of their denominations (in Kansas, as I recall) had a practicing abortionist participating in their communion every week. We go from that extreme to the Missouri Synod branch of the Lutheran Church, which we attended briefly between being Episcopalians and joining the Catholic Church. That Lutheran denomination is very conservative in its beliefs and traditions. In fact, our old minister said they were probably the closest Protestant denomination to the Catholic Church. As I recall, they don’t even want dialogue with the Evangelical Lutheran demoniation. The last big problem for us, however, came when we noticed that their official church position identifies the pope as the anti-Christ. That was the silliest thing we had ever heard, so we immediately realized we had to go.

We need to realize that many of the Protestants out there think that they disagree with what we believe, but the fact is that they don’t understand what we believe. Even our vocabulary is different and confusing to them, but if they would only take time to understand what we mean, they would realize we’re not as far from them in beliefs as they think we are. I just hope we all realize that there are devout Protestants out there, ones who have even died for their faith. While there is a need at times to defend the Catholic Church from those who fail to understand her, it is more important perhaps that we explain the Church to our “seperated bretheren” in a loving way, sowing seeds for the future, and letting the Holy Spirit bring our seeds to growth in the future. But we won’t accomplish any kind of dialogue or ecumenical progress, if we simply reply in anger.

 

[Mike_D30]

I agree a lot of born agains are inspiring with their general attitudes about Christ. I think most people who are born again are just learning about Christ, and have that converts zeal, and I believe it’s 100% authentic. After a while most born agains will either settle into a religion be it Catholic, Baptist, Lutheran, Pentecostal etc, and some just fall away. But reborn Christians attitudes are very admitable IMO.

 

[Kitty_Chan]

wow you guys have warmed this kittys heart, I was quite discouraged about ever finding unity amoung believers and told God just that. Even said I may have to stop peeking in around here its too depressing.

You all dont know what you did for my heart, Dont know if you use the term but it was a blessing.

I love the honesty, I will post a longer reply tomorrow, nite.

 

[Rebecca_New]

The Holy Spirit is there, brother. But, it is not the fullness of Faith that they can experience. The more I learn about our Catholic Faith, the more I am awed by what we DO have.

 

[Jeanette_L]

Ecclesiastes 3:1,4

**To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:

A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn and a time to dance.**

I think that anyone who is a Christian in this world, and is around long enough, will experience times of exuberation and times of great trials, life just works that way.

But Joy, that comes from trusting God through every season.

So, if you are in a place where you can be exuberant in your praises, this is your time under heaven for laughter and dancing.

If you’re in a place of distress or sorrow or pain, and mourning or weeping is all you can muster, this is your time under heaven for these.

And you can have Joy in both places. And you can be a “born again” Evangelical or a Catholic and be in these same places at the same time. And God’s Love and Acceptance and Mercy is there in every season for every believer.

 

[Tonks40]

Kitty Chan:

wow you guys have warmed this kittys heart, I was quite discouraged about ever finding unity amoung believers and told God just that. Even said I may have to stop peeking in around here its too depressing.

You all dont know what you did for my heart, Dont know if you use the term but it was a blessing.

I love the honesty, I will post a longer reply tomorrow, nite.

Aw…shucks!

One thing that keeps running through my mind recently - God made everyone good. We are all called to see the goodness in everyone, whether our faith-beliefs are different or not. This starts with the people you come in contact with every day, your family, the homeless person down the street. We should celebrate with those outside the Church who have found a renewed faith in Christ, and realize that they are all on a spiritual journey, and it just doesn’t stop there with their born-again experience.

Charity, love, compassion…it’s all right there called by the Lord for us to embrace and try to embed these in our lives.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

the New Testament alone uses the word joy 80 times when speaking of our Savior and his words.
Praise 33 times
happy 7
Solemn 28 in the Old Testamnet, 0 in the New Testament.
Yes we should have Joy in our heart.

 

[neweyes]

gelsbern:

Problem with that, is they have forgotten the cross, and it is BOTH the death AND resurrection that brought us salvation.

Sweeping generalization. We have not forgotten the cross at all.

 

[neweyes]

pira114:

In my experience, all the singing and laughing and dancing around are nothing more than a mask for the feeling of missing something. They all have a sense that they are missing something, so they make up for it by “acting” in extremes.

Good heavens! Please open your mind and know that non-Catholics are every bit “good enough” as Catholics are to our Father.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

pira114:

In my experience, all the singing and laughing and dancing around are nothing more than a mask for the feeling of missing something. They all have a sense that they are missing something, so they make up for it by “acting” in extremes.

What pray tell are we born agains and proud of it missing? we think you maybe missing something and thats why we are at this forum. I have been born again since 1989 and know scriptures better than any of my Catholic friends. In fact I think I understand their doctrines better than most after learning and sharing with della smitty and a few others over the past month or so. To pigeon hole born agains is quite judgemental on your part. See my post above about joy in the new testament vs. solemn. No need for a mask, once you accept the holy spirit. Solemness could be seen as a mask also, but we born agains try top not judge catholics for it.

 

[Mickey]

myfavoritmartin:

we think you maybe missing something and thats why we are at this forum.

I appreciate your concern, but we are not missing anything. In fact, we have the fullness of truth!

 

[myfavoritmartin]

Mickey:

I appreciate your concern, but we are not missing anything. In fact, we have the fullness of truth!

PRAISE THE LORD!!!

 

[FluteChick2007]

Quaere Verum:

Yes Mickey! Not to minimize the depth of what you’ve said, but on a lighter note we have Bingo, drinking, and dancing too. I guess that’s joy for ya’.

Aye. At my church, we’re constantly having parties for something. We have a party on Epiphany, a dance for Fat Tuesday (as well as a ceremony for burning the palms), Easter celebrations, and receptions for just about everything you can think of. It’s great!