I left Mass as one angry Catholic today...

  • Thread starter Thread starter coolduude
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
C

coolduude

Guest
It was my parish’s first LifeTeen Mass. What a disaster. Heres what I remember:
  • Priest used different words in the opening. He said something like “let us welcome each other” or something.
  • When the congregation was shaking hands at the welcoming the LifeTeen choir played a verse of “All are Welcome”
  • Between the Gospel and Homliy the choir played an Alleluia song
  • The Our Father was sung at an extremely different pace than the norm, all while in the Orans posture
  • The Great Amen after the Doxology was sung by the choir
  • EVERY SONG had a snare drum that was EXTREMELY loud (I believe that violates Musicam Sacram? pardon the spelling)
  • When the priest kneeled at the altar after he consecrated the bread and wine the choir bowed at the waist, like Japanese people (they bowed twice).
  • Instruments used by the choir were a snare drum, cymbals attached to the drum, cowbell, and piano
  • The priest said something to the LifeTeen members before dismissal and they responded
  • When the priest was doing the Communion Rite, he said “Jesus gave the bread to His friends and said…”. I thought it was disciples, not friends. Am I wrong?
    I’m sure I’m missing something here. Ask for details and I’ll probably remember.
Were there any liturgical abuses committed?

😦
 
coolduude said:
It was my parish’s first LifeTeen Mass. What a disaster. Heres what I remember:
  • Priest used different words in the opening. He said something like “let us welcome each other” or something.
  • When the congregation was shaking hands at the welcoming the LifeTeen choir played a verse of “All are Welcome”
  • Between the Gospel and Homliy the choir played an Alleluia song
  • The Our Father was sung at an extremely different pace than the norm, all while in the Orans posture
  • The Great Amen after the Doxology was sung by the choir
  • EVERY SONG had a snare drum that was EXTREMELY loud (I believe that violates Musicam Sacram? pardon the spelling)
  • When the priest kneeled at the altar after he consecrated the bread and wine the choir bowed at the waist, like Japanese people (they bowed twice).
  • Instruments used by the choir were a snare drum, cymbals attached to the drum, cowbell, and piano
  • The priest said something to the LifeTeen members before dismissal and they responded
  • When the priest was doing the Communion Rite, he said “Jesus gave the bread to His friends and said…”. I thought it was disciples, not friends. Am I wrong?
    I’m sure I’m missing something here. Ask for details and I’ll probably remember.
Were there any liturgical abuses committed?

😦
Click to expand...
Sounds like a Mass I wouldn’t have liked at all either. That said:
  • The Eucharistic Prayers for Masses with Children use “friends” instead of “disciples.”
  • Whether a snare drum “violates” Church rules is open for debate.
  • A separate bow at each consecration is correct for people who are not kneeling. For a choir, risers and limited space may make kneeling impossible (it does for my choir, at least).
  • If the “Alleluia song” you mention is just the Alleluia along with the proper psalm verse, then there’s nothing wrong with the choir singing it. They’re supposed to.
  • Although the Doxology should be sung by the priest, to my knowledge nothing, in principle, prevents the choir from singing the Amen. If you were more familiar with the setting, you could sing along, right?
  • There is nothing wrong with singing the Our Father at a pace you don’t like.
  • The priest does not have the authority to tell people to use the Orans posture, but nothing stops the individual from holding his own hands in whatever position he finds prayerful.
On the other points, I agree with you.
 
MarkThompson said:
Sounds like a Mass I wouldn’t have liked at all either. That said:
Click to expand...
But a Life Teen Mass is not a Mass for Children. Life Teen was instructed to follow the regular rubrics for Mass.
  • If the “Alleluia song” you mention is just the Alleluia along with the proper psalm verse, then there’s nothing wrong with the choir singing it. They’re supposed to.
Click to expand...
But they aren’t supposed to change the location of the Alleluia to after the Gospel (see OP) and before the homily.
 
We had a contract priest at Camp Pendleton CA who used friends with every single Mass he did. I found it annoying. I would also find the drum, cymbals & cowbell really annoying too. Being here in Asia, the bowing doesnt bother me tho. In the Korean Masses i have been to, it is used as the Sign of Peace. Helps the germophobes lol
 
Corki said:
But they aren’t supposed to change the location of the Alleluia to after the Gospel (see OP) and before the homily.
Click to expand...
He didn’t say that they didn’t do it before the Gospel, simply that they did it after. Our choir also repeats the Alleluia after the Gospel. While that is done at Papal Masses, I think that would be part and parcel of the greater solemnity of a Papal Mass and not something that we should expect at Mass during Ordinary Time.
 
Corki said:
But a Life Teen Mass is not a Mass for Children. Life Teen was instructed to follow the regular rubrics for Mass.
Click to expand...
The option of using the EPs for Masses with Children is (for now, but thankfully not for much longer) part of the “regular rubrics” for Mass. In other words, as far as I know there is nothing about being a Lifeteen Mass that specifically excludes their use if they could have been used otherwise. I’m dubious that it was the right choice here, but there’s a substantial difference in the world of abusiveness between “Using the EP for Masses With Children at a Mass with children who are probably too old for that” and “Changing the words of the Institution Narrative on the fly.” If there’s an abuse here, it was probably the former (not very grave, and a matter of interpretation) versus the latter (quite grave).
But they aren’t supposed to change the location of the Alleluia to after the Gospel (see OP) and before the homily.
Click to expand...
Oops, thanks for pointing that out. I know that in some places there is a practice of repeating the Alleluia after the Gospel as the priest or deacon processes back with the Book, which may be what was intended here, but strictly speaking I would think it is not permitted.
 
MarkThompson said:
The option of using the EPs for Masses with Children is (for now, but thankfully not for much longer) part of the “regular rubrics” for Mass. In other words, as far as I know there is nothing about being a Lifeteen Mass that specifically excludes their use if they could have been used otherwise. I’m dubious that it was the right choice here, but there’s a substantial difference in the world of abusiveness between “Using the EP for Masses With Children at a Mass with children who are probably too old for that” and “Changing the words of the Institution Narrative on the fly.” If there’s an abuse here, it was probably the former (not very grave, and a matter of interpretation) versus the latter (quite grave).
Click to expand...
Even in the soon-to-be-extinct option of the EP in Masses for Children, it is limited to Masses that are actually for children too young to understand a “regular” Mass. It’s not Masses “with” children. And a priest is not supposed to change just the words of institution. If it’s a Mass for Children then the whole thing should be from that set of rubrics. It’s not a mosaic.
 
coolduude said:
  • The priest said something to the LifeTeen members before dismissal and they responded
Click to expand...
Was this the “the Mass never ends, it must be lived!” thing? I know that LifeTeen used to do that but it supposedly was ended.
 
While liturgical abuses are never okay, I feel compelled to say … be grateful if this is the worst you have seen. I was at a Mass a few days ago where the priest:
  • skipped the Sign of the Cross at the beginning and also skipped the penitential rite completely
  • said in his homily that divorce and birth control is okay, that “Catholics have a problem with guilt” and we should not go to Confession, and that everyone will go to heaven no matter what sins they commit
  • changed pretty much all of the subsequent prayers except the actual words of consecration
  • skipped the Agnus Dei and the “Behold the Lamb of God” completely - after the Our Father he said some totally unrecognizable phrase and then started distributing Communion
😦
 
Wow, I feel so sad, because when I read your post I just thought, “This doesn’t seem that bad …” I am so jaded already about liturgical abuse. 😦

A few days ago I attended a Mass where the priest:
  • skipped the Sign of the Cross at the beginning and also skipped the penitential rite completely
  • said in his homily that divorce and birth control is okay, that “Catholics have a problem with guilt” and we should not go to Confession, and that everyone will go to heaven no matter what sins they commit
  • changed pretty much all of the subsequent prayers except the actual words of consecration
  • skipped the Agnus Dei and the “Behold the Lamb of God” completely - after the Our Father he said some totally unrecognizable phrase and then started distributing Communion
 
coolduude said:
It was my parish’s first LifeTeen Mass. What a disaster. Heres what I remember:
  • Priest used different words in the opening. He said something like “let us welcome each other” or something.
  • When the congregation was shaking hands at the welcoming the LifeTeen choir played a verse of “All are Welcome”
  • Between the Gospel and Homliy the choir played an Alleluia song
  • The Our Father was sung at an extremely different pace than the norm, all while in the Orans posture
  • The Great Amen after the Doxology was sung by the choir
  • EVERY SONG had a snare drum that was EXTREMELY loud (I believe that violates Musicam Sacram? pardon the spelling)
  • When the priest kneeled at the altar after he consecrated the bread and wine the choir bowed at the waist, like Japanese people (they bowed twice).
  • Instruments used by the choir were a snare drum, cymbals attached to the drum, cowbell, and piano
  • The priest said something to the LifeTeen members before dismissal and they responded
  • When the priest was doing the Communion Rite, he said “Jesus gave the bread to His friends and said…”. I thought it was disciples, not friends. Am I wrong?
    I’m sure I’m missing something here. Ask for details and I’ll probably remember.
Were there any liturgical abuses committed?

😦
Click to expand...
I have been where you are and it’s not a pleasant situation. I have had to shake the dust off my birkenstocks and just walk away. In fact, I did just that about two months ago. My dad was tempted to follow me, but, he had to stay.

You’ve described a lot of liturgical abuses. The celebrant has no right to change the text that the Church prescribes. While the Roman Missal does state in a couple of places, “these or similar words”, they don’t apply to the Eucharistic Prayers nor to the “Ecce Agnus Dei”. The faithful, at least here in the United States, are to kneel from the conclusion of the Sanctus to the Amen after the Doxology.

The celebrant cannot invent his own Introductory Rites and imbed them into the Mass. We are not called to be creative; we are called to receive what the Church gives us with great love.
 
kamaan said:
That is exactly what I was thinking…

but I didn’t want to sound like a dork!

😃
Click to expand...
Ah, now, see, that’s where I differ from others, I know I sound like a dork, regardless 😛

It wasn’t for that reason, though, that I had second thoughts about posting, it was making light of…an abuse? an…I’m not really sure what it is, though, but, I don’t think it’s for God, and it probably doesn’t help the congregation get in a prayerful mode.
 
I just have a couple comments:
coolduude said:
  • Between the Gospel and Homliy the choir played an Alleluia song
Click to expand...
Is that not suppose to happen? I’ve seen it quite regularly at one parish (Alleluia before the Gospel, then again after the Gospel and response).
coolduude said:
The Our Father was sung at an extremely different pace than the norm, all while in the Orans posture
Click to expand...
As above, the pace of the Our Father is not regulated.
coolduude said:
  • The Great Amen after the Doxology was sung by the choir
Click to expand...
I’m not really sure what you’re getting at here. I can’t think of a time I went to Sunday Mass and the Amen wasn’t sung. I would venture to say that from my point of view, singing the Amen is the norm and speaking it would be abnormal (daily Masses excepted, since music is at a minimum at many of them anyways).
 
Corki said:
But a Life Teen Mass is not a Mass for Children. Life Teen was instructed to follow the regular rubrics for Mass.
Click to expand...
Exactly. Its a teen Mass. Some of the teens in the choir were probably 18. If they weren’t 18, they definitely weren’t much younger.
Corki said:
But they aren’t supposed to change the location of the Alleluia to after the Gospel (see OP) and before the homily.
Click to expand...
They did 2 Alleluias. One like normal (even though they used drums like this). They did another one after the Gospel was read. The priest held up the book the Gospel was read out of (presumably a Bible. I could be wrong) and recited some prayer. He sat it back down after the music and began his homily.

Let me mention- every song in Mass used those drums I linked to above. There was also guitar in one or two songs.
Phemie said:
He didn’t say that they didn’t do it before the Gospel, simply that they did it after. Our choir also repeats the Alleluia after the Gospel. While that is done at Papal Masses, I think that would be part and parcel of the greater solemnity of a Papal Mass and not something that we should expect at Mass during Ordinary Time.
Click to expand...
That’s exactly what we did.
kamaan said:
Was this the “the Mass never ends, it must be lived!” thing? I know that LifeTeen used to do that but it supposedly was ended.
Click to expand...
No, it wasn’t that. It was something else. Father’s microphone wasn’t working well so I couldn’t really hear him. It wasn’t what you said though. But it was before the dismissal. Is that licit?

This LifeTeen junk needs to stop. It is disrespectful to the Mass, IMO. Should I contact the pastor about this?
 
curlycool89 said:
I’m not really sure what you’re getting at here. I can’t think of a time I went to Sunday Mass and the Amen wasn’t sung. I would venture to say that from my point of view, singing the Amen is the norm and speaking it would be abnormal (daily Masses excepted, since music is at a minimum at many of them anyways).
Click to expand...
The celebrant is the only one who is supposed to be reciting/chanting the Doxology. The faithful, inclusive of the choir, respond with an Amen. The choir has no business singing the Doxology as that pertains to the celebrant.
 
benedictgal said:
The celebrant is the only one who is supposed to be reciting/chanting the Doxology. The faithful, inclusive of the choir, respond with an Amen. The choir has no business singing the Doxology as that pertains to the celebrant.
Click to expand...
They didn’t sing the Doxology. Only the priest did.
 
Student09 said:
Wow, I feel so sad, because when I read your post I just thought, “This doesn’t seem that bad …” I am so jaded already about liturgical abuse. 😦

A few days ago I attended a Mass where the priest:
  • skipped the Sign of the Cross at the beginning and also skipped the penitential rite completely
  • said in his homily that divorce and birth control is okay, that “Catholics have a problem with guilt” and we should not go to Confession, and that everyone will go to heaven no matter what sins they commit
  • changed pretty much all of the subsequent prayers except the actual words of consecration
  • skipped the Agnus Dei and the “Behold the Lamb of God” completely - after the Our Father he said some totally unrecognizable phrase and then started distributing Communion
Click to expand...
:crying::crying::banghead:

I’d write to the Bishop if I were you.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top