I left Mass as one angry Catholic today...

[curlycool89]

The celebrant is the only one who is supposed to be reciting/chanting the Doxology. The faithful, inclusive of the choir, respond with an Amen. The choir has no business singing the Doxology as that pertains to the celebrant.

The way the OP put it was “The Great Amen after the Doxology was sung by the choir”, so I assumed that he meant that the choir sang the Great Amen after Father did the doxology (that they did not join him). That seems to have been what happened (so I guess I say again, I pretty much always hear the Great Amen sung and not spoken at Sunday Mass).

If they did, then obviously they shouldn’t, but the way the OP put it I did not think that they did (and thus I was only commenting on the Amen, not the doxology).

Somewhat traditional. I mean the priest has the altar servers ‘escort’ him when he goes to the ambo to read the Gospel. They then stand on either side for the rest of the Gospel reading, all the while holding candles. I hope you get what I mean

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that (I believe that the GIRM does refer to a procession of candles and such in the Gospel Acclamation). That was basically the norm in a couple parishes I attended, one alter server held the Gospel for the priest and two other “flanked” them with candles.

Then before the final blessing and dismissal he gives a “vocation cup” where every week a family has it to pray for vocations and then he gives us some encouragement for the week. Is this allowed? It doesn’t really seem bad.

I think before the final blessing is the “announcement time”, so that should be ok. I saw this at another parish too (this is really making it sound like I parish-hop, but it’s actually more like I city-hop, so I do have an excuse).

 

[Student09]

Please tell me that you will be reporting this priest to the Bishop. Report him and hold him to account that is unacceptable and this priest needs to understand that!

I feel that I should report him. I don’t know the priest’s name, though; I tried to find it on the church’s website but couldn’t. In order to find it out I suppose I would have to go back to the church, even though it isn’t my regular parish, and possibly go back more than once until I get a Mass with the same priest (since they have more than one), sit through another abusive Mass with heretical homily, then ask some of the parishioners after Mass what his name is … and then report to the bishop.

I mean, I could do it. Do you think I should?

 

[SimonDodd]

Student09, I think you at least need to visit the parish and talk to the priest. You can get his name, if you get nothing else out of the visit, but as a basic courtesy, complaints should always be addressed first to their subject, even if their reaction is predictable.

 

[Student09]

Student09, I think you at least need to visit the parish and talk to the priest. You can get his name, if you get nothing else out of the visit, but as a basic courtesy, complaints should always be addressed first to their subject, even if their reaction is predictable.

Presumably he knows his views are heretical and that he is not saying Mass properly. He’s been a priest for 35 years, he said. Presumably someone somewhere has talked to him about this. And presumably there have been complaints filed before.

As I have said … I am not totally averse to filing a complaint … and if I decide to do so, I will enlist someone here to guide me through the process. But am I really the best person to do this? I’m a college student and a neophyte.

 

[benedictgal]

Presumably he knows his views are heretical and that he is not saying Mass properly. He’s been a priest for 35 years, he said. Presumably someone somewhere has talked to him about this. And presumably there have been complaints filed before.

As I have said … I am not totally averse to filing a complaint … and if I decide to do so, I will enlist someone here to guide me through the process. But am I really the best person to do this? I’m a college student and a neophyte.

Redemptionis Sacramentum does not discriminate against age, station or status. As a Catholic, you have every right to a Mass that is properly celebrated within the framework that the Church provides.

 

[SimonDodd]

Presumably he knows his views are heretical and that he is not saying Mass properly. He’s been a priest for 35 years, he said. Presumably someone somewhere has talked to him about this. And presumably there have been complaints filed before.

I have no doubt that you’re correct. It’s not that I think you’ll have any luck, it’s just a matter of courtesy. If someone had a beef with you, you might chafe if they told you about it, you might even get pretty angry with them, but if they went over your head without having the decency to ask you about it first, I think you’d be within your rights to feel wronged. The truth is that people who are getting stuff wrong aren’t generally going to change if they’ve been doing it for a while; you usually have to escalate. But always start with a conversation with the person at the heart of it: “if thy brother shall offend against thee, go, and rebuke him between thee and him alone.”

As I have said … I am not totally averse to filing a complaint … and if I decide to do so, I will enlist someone here to guide me through the process. But am I really the best person to do this? I’m a college student and a neophyte.

Things get done by the people who show up. There may be better people, more qualified people, more able people. But they didn’t show up. (My favorite sci-fi show is Babylon 5, for no better reason than its vivid illustration of this point.) If you need help, ask. I’ll certainly help, and I’m sure that other folks here—many of whom are far more knowledgeable than me—will, too.

 

[coolduude]

Hi all,

As some of you know, I recently attended a LifeTeen Mass (it was… )

Anyway, I’ve been trying to read up on LifeTeen and see where it stands in the Church. I haven’t been able to come up with much. Jimmy Aiken had an article on it from 2004, so it’s a little dated. For example, back in '04 LifeTeen members would gather around the altar during the Consecration- a clear abuse. That has since been stopped.

I haven’t been able to find much on LifeTeen and whether it should be going on or not. Any help here? I know it’s wrong and detracts from the sacredness of the Mass, however I can’t put my finger on exactly what’s wrong with it (from what I’ve read, almost everything checks out, but some is up for debate).

For my experience at the LifeTeen Mass, see here.

Help, please?

 

[baltobetsy]

In the past, there were several liturgical aberrations that were regularly a part of the LifeTeen Masses. Teens gathered around the altar during the Eucharistic prayer, they used the non-standard “The Mass never ends…” dismissal, and perhaps a couple of other things. The Vatican requested that these be corrected, and they were. There is no official condemnation of LifeTeen.

The catechesis outside of Mass is meant to be rich and inspiring, and, indeed, when LifeTeen is done well, it is. In the parish near to me that has it, the teens are very reverent, obviously deep in prayer before and after Mass, and quite a number of religious and priestly vocations have come from the group. I’m sure there is quite a range of experiences one might have in LifeTeen in various places, depending on those in charge and how well they run it.

It seems you did not enjoy or benefit from LifeTeen in your parish. Since it is just beginning, it is possible that they are still learning about how to do it. There is no need for you to be angry about it. Just don’t go. Don’t disparage those who do enjoy and benefit from it.

Betsy

 

[catholictiger]

It was my parish’s first LifeTeen Mass. What a disaster. Heres what I remember:

• Priest used different words in the opening. He said something like “let us welcome each other” or something.
• When the congregation was shaking hands at the welcoming the LifeTeen choir played a verse of “All are Welcome”
• Between the Gospel and Homliy the choir played an Alleluia song
• The Our Father was sung at an extremely different pace than the norm, all while in the Orans posture
• The Great Amen after the Doxology was sung by the choir
• EVERY SONG had a snare drum that was EXTREMELY loud (I believe that violates Musicam Sacram? pardon the spelling)
• When the priest kneeled at the altar after he consecrated the bread and wine the choir bowed at the waist, like Japanese people (they bowed twice).
• Instruments used by the choir were a snare drum, cymbals attached to the drum, cowbell, and piano
• The priest said something to the LifeTeen members before dismissal and they responded
• When the priest was doing the Communion Rite, he said “Jesus gave the bread to His friends and said…”. I thought it was disciples, not friends. Am I wrong?
  I’m sure I’m missing something here. Ask for details and I’ll probably remember.

Were there any liturgical abuses committed?

my youth group parish is involved with lifeteen but its not a part of the mass even though they have a youth mass, i just hope they never go to it, im slightly worried that they may but i’m staying away from that mass, mainly becuase i don’t do much with the parish mainly becuase im in college now and its a high school parish

 

[ConstantineTG]

It seems you did not enjoy or benefit from LifeTeen in your parish. Since it is just beginning, it is possible that they are still learning about how to do it. There is no need for you to be angry about it. Just don’t go. Don’t disparage those who do enjoy and benefit from it.

I’ll just quote Betsy because this is the same point I will make.

 

[Spirithound]

Hi all,

As some of you know, I recently attended a LifeTeen Mass (it was… )

Anyway, I’ve been trying to read up on LifeTeen and see where it stands in the Church. I haven’t been able to come up with much. Jimmy Aiken had an article on it from 2004, so it’s a little dated. For example, back in '04 LifeTeen members would gather around the altar during the Consecration- a clear abuse. That has since been stopped.

I haven’t been able to find much on LifeTeen and whether it should be going on or not. Any help here? I know it’s wrong and detracts from the sacredness of the Mass, however I can’t put my finger on exactly what’s wrong with it (from what I’ve read, almost everything checks out, but some is up for debate).

For my experience at the LifeTeen Mass, see here.

Help, please?

I just read your other post, and none of the things you wrote about happened at the Life Teen Mass I went to (except we held hands during the Our Father, yes, a different abuse). So, it can be done within the GIRM.

That being said, if you experience something that you feel detracts from the sacredness of Mass, talk to the priest.

 

[agapewolf]

Lifeteen is approved by the church. They are also an official association of the lay faithful.

They have a board of directors including Bishop Hermann from St. Louis

Some parishes that do lifeteen unfortunately do not follow the rules. But many parishes that don’t do lifeteen don’t follow all the rules.

www.lifeteen.com
www.catholicyouthministry.com

 

[Melchior_1]

Cooldude,

If I recall correctly, you’ve posted concerns about some of the retreats put on by the youth ministry team at your parish. To me this isn’t indicative of Life Teen, but rather it is indicative of the leadership team of the youth ministry within your parish. Am I wrong in saying these people will find a way to make things pretty awful without the use of Life Teen?

These people who take up a banner and distort it into something that it isn’t tend to make the organization they “represent” look bad, and Life Teen isn’t alone in that regard. There has been several organizations (and the Church itself) who have been judged based on the actions of a few, rather than the actions of the whole. As has been mentioned by others, there is nothing inherently wrong with the program itself. You can look no further than the current leadership team at their head office to see that (which you can find at the links provided by agapewolf)…

There are issues with the people who run it on a parish level, which is what’s happening with you at the moment. Talk to your Priest about it. Because even if your parish loses the program, the people running the program will still be there.

In my humble opinion it’s the people that are the problem, not the program.

 

[Cat]

We have a wonderful Life Teen Mass at our parish. It’s done completely within the rubrics, and reverently (unless you consider the rock music irreverent, but that’s just a personal opinion).

There are no abuses.

Our bishop, one of the most conservative and orthodox in the world, approves of the Life Teen Mass at our parish.

Many hundreds of teenagers attend, along with hundreds of adults, especially adults my age who grew up in the era when “Jesus rock music” was started. We have no problem seeing rock music as sacred and reverent because we grew up with it.

I would say that our Life Teen Mass is one of our most reverent, and the easiest Mass to pray during.

A group of teenagers pray in our 24/7 Adoration Chapel before and after the Mass. Throughout the week, teenagers are often present at the Adoration Chapel. The teenagers get involved with several service projects in our city, include a vibrant pro-life outreach. I would call these teens “leaders” in our city.

We’ve had several vocations to the priesthood and religious come out of the Life Teen group of teenagers at our parish.

I agree with others. Don’t judge the entire organization and all Life Teen Masses by your one bad experience. Also, I would recommend that you not return to Life Teen, even a good Mass like ours. You didn’t enjoy the Kairos retreat (contemporary). You don’t seem to enjoy contemporary music in the Mass. Why are you bothering to attend something that you just don’t enjoy?

I don’t attend TLM in our city, even though it’s right down the street. I don’t enjoy Latin or chant or some of the other ancient traditions. I’m very glad that this Mass is there (daily) for other Catholics who DO enjoy this form of Mass. But I don’t plan to go.

It’s best to just avoid that which isn’t your cup of tea. Stick with what you do enjoy. If you are forced to attend a Mass that you personally don’t like, just do the best you can. That’s what I would do if for some reason, I stumbed into a Latin Mass.

 

[CB_Catholic]

The Lifeteen Mass at our parish follows the rubrics, the kids sit in the pews, often the parents attend with them, and also many of our regular parishoners attend. I don’t care for it because I don’t care for the music, but I have never seen anything irreverent or abusive going on. The homily given is the same as given at other Masses. Hand-holding during the Our Father is not big in our parish, though some do it, and that is of little concern to me. Other than the more contemporary music, it’s just like any other Mass in my parish. The teens do the readings and they do a good job of it. So don’t judge the whole organization by one group.

 

[Catholicben]

We have a wonderful Life Teen Mass at our parish. It’s done completely within the rubrics, and reverently (unless you consider the rock music irreverent, but that’s just a personal opinion).

It seems pretty clear to me that rock music is not really suitable for mass (or benediction, or public LOTH…).
De Musica Sacra:

Paragraph 61:
“The principal musical instrument for solemn liturgical ceremonies of the Latin [western] Church has been and remains the classic pipe organ. …”

…

Paragraph 68:
" … they are to be played with such seriousness, and religious devotion that every suggestion of raucous(harsh or loud) secular music is avoided, and the devotion of the faithful is fostered. The director, organist, and other instrumentalists should be well trained in instrumental techniques, and the laws of sacred music. …"

Anyways, thanks for staying sain in your post! So much of the time, people just get really defensive about this kind of thing. And just so you know, I am of the mind of TLM, traditional NO, Chant, Latin, etc…

 

[coolduude]

It seems pretty clear to me that rock music is not really suitable for mass (or benediction, or public LOTH…).

Anyways, thanks for staying sain in your post! So much of the time, people just get really defensive about this kind of thing. And just so you know, I am of the mind of TLM, traditional NO, Chant, Latin, etc…

Your quotes from De Musica Sacra are spot on. It puts the nail in the coffin for LifeTeen, or at least their music. Like I said, they played the drums extremely loud in a “Christian Rock” genre way. Would this violate what De Musica Sacra lays out?

Also, is De Musica Sacra still binding? I’m assuming it is, but I just want to be sure.

 

[coolduude]

Cooldude,

If I recall correctly, you’ve posted concerns about some of the retreats put on by the youth ministry team at your parish. To me this isn’t indicative of Life Teen, but rather it is indicative of the leadership team of the youth ministry within your parish. Am I wrong in saying these people will find a way to make things pretty awful without the use of Life Teen?

These people who take up a banner and distort it into something that it isn’t tend to make the organization they “represent” look bad, and Life Teen isn’t alone in that regard. There has been several organizations (and the Church itself) who have been judged based on the actions of a few, rather than the actions of the whole. As has been mentioned by others, there is nothing inherently wrong with the program itself. You can look no further than the current leadership team at their head office to see that (which you can find at the links provided by agapewolf)…

There are issues with the people who run it on a parish level, which is what’s happening with you at the moment. Talk to your Priest about it. Because even if your parish loses the program, the people running the program will still be there.

In my humble opinion it’s the people that are the problem, not the program.

This response addresses the bolded parts mostly.

No, you are totally right. The music we sing at normal Masses is mediocre and our Youth Group can offer some shaky theology, I think. That’s why I stay away from it. But really, there are some people at my parish who I’m sure are liberal Catholics and like to go with the flow in terms of what other liberal Catholics do.

Just a correction: it’s my high school that offers the bad retreats and my parish that promotes LifeTeen (you were close, though! )

Other bolded part:

You’re probably right. I don’t attend other parishes, let alone another LifeTeen Mass, so I only have one perspective on the matter. It just seems that I always get stuck with the fringe stuff, like my retreat experience or LifeTeen

Good post, Melchior

 

[SacredHeart1987]

It was my parish’s first LifeTeen Mass. What a disaster. Heres what I remember:

• Priest used different words in the opening. He said something like “let us welcome each other” or something.
• When the congregation was shaking hands at the welcoming the LifeTeen choir played a verse of “All are Welcome”
• Between the Gospel and Homliy the choir played an Alleluia song
• The Our Father was sung at an extremely different pace than the norm, all while in the Orans posture
• The Great Amen after the Doxology was sung by the choir
• EVERY SONG had a snare drum that was EXTREMELY loud (I believe that violates Musicam Sacram? pardon the spelling)
• When the priest kneeled at the altar after he consecrated the bread and wine the choir bowed at the waist, like Japanese people (they bowed twice).
• Instruments used by the choir were a snare drum, cymbals attached to the drum, cowbell, and piano
• The priest said something to the LifeTeen members before dismissal and they responded
• When the priest was doing the Communion Rite, he said “Jesus gave the bread to His friends and said…”. I thought it was disciples, not friends. Am I wrong?
  I’m sure I’m missing something here. Ask for details and I’ll probably remember.

Were there any liturgical abuses committed?

This is why I go to a Latin Mass.

 

[coolduude]

This is why I go to a Latin Mass.

Trust me, if I could go to a Latin Mass I would jump at the opportunity. I can’t for the time being though.