I need help understanding this of the Catholic Church.

[CopticChristian]

I am hoping to convert this Easter and I really need some help understanding this one idea. The Catholic Church, from this website, has added all their doctrines over a period of time. Purgatory came along after the Church was established, then Priest able to forgive sins…how would a good Catholic defend the faith here? BTW, I am looking to convert. Thanks.

Website: lavistachurchofchrist.org/LVanswers/2004/2004-04-01.htm

crossroadsinitiative.com/library_article/1048/Development_of_Doctrine_Vincent_of_Lerins.html

View this. There is a difference between invention and development. A image like a photograph in a negative cannot be seen until developed. A fetus is not an adult, is not the human at time of death or at time of holiness and resurrection. Reflect on development not invention.

 

[Hail_Linus]

I am hoping to convert this Easter and I really need some help understanding this one idea. The Catholic Church, from this website, has added all their doctrines over a period of time. Purgatory came along after the Church was established, then Priest able to forgive sins…how would a good Catholic defend the faith here? BTW, I am looking to convert. Thanks.

Website: lavistachurchofchrist.org/LVanswers/2004/2004-04-01.htm

The purgatory issue is so incredibly silly. This just comes from our Jewish roots. The proof is that Jews today (At least Orthodox and Conservative) believe in a purgatory. The only difference is that Jews believe it lasts for exactly one year. Catholics do not have a dogma about the duration. It could last anywhere from a minute to thousands of years. The NT criticizes many things about Judaism but there is no criticism about the theology of purgatory.

As far as Priests being able to forgive sins. That begins right in the Gospel with the great commission. As a matter of fact, in Martin Luther’s 95 thesis he criticizes the Church for permitting its priests to forgive sins so easily. This is the one reasonable criticism Martin Luther made in his 95 thesis. In the early days you had to confess your sins before the Priest and the parishioners and then you would do penance (this could sometimes take years) and then you would come back and get your sin forgiven. Somewhere in history the Church let the Priest forgive the sin prior to the penance.

BTW, that list is so silly and wrong. Take the claim that Easter wasn’t celebrated until 325. The problem the council of Nicea solved was that there was no uniform date of when Easter should be celebrated. Some Christians were even celebrating Easter on Good Friday. The Council of Nicea settled this issue by designating the day of Resurrection as Easter.

Another amusing thing about the link is the begining of the paragraph below the list.
The first sentence starts “In contrast to the ever changing beliefs of Catholicism…”
This is truly hilarious because of the fact that since the reformation, Catholicism has not changed. All of the reformed Churches have never stopped changing.

 

[CopticChristian]

The problem with trying to explain why the Church did what that website says the Church did is that the Church didn’t do what that website says the Church did.

And that basic rule, like the doctrines you’re asking about, has been around from the beginning.

May I ask for you to provide the website you are referencing. I believe that as Guanophore mentioned caution should be exercised. This will help understand some of you confusion.

The official documents are important. Know that The Orthodox have not defined Purgatory. This is not a deal breaker. Guanophore wrote the following.

The Catholic church develops doctrine, which means understanding it better over time, and applying it to the present day, but the deposit of faith was closed at the death of the last Apostle.

The deposit was made. It is being realized. The Catholic Church defined Purgatory. The Orthodox have not. Not defining something does not declare it not to be so.

catholic.com/library/Purgatory.asp

catholic.com/library/Roots_of_Purgatory.asp

catholic.com/thisrock/2005/0504bt.asp

 

[Godfollower]

May I ask for you to provide the website you are referencing. I believe that as Guanophore mentioned caution should be exercised. This will help understand some of you confusion.

The official documents are important. Know that The Orthodox have not defined Purgatory. This is not a deal breaker. {Snip}.

Don’t worry; I’m not confused. I wasn’t citing a website; I was responding to the one the OP asked about. That website begins with the following: “Question: What is the difference between Catholicism and Christianity? What is wrong with the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church?” It then goes on to claim to answer those questions, and the OP asked the not-unreasonable question of Wow! The Catholic Church invented all those things over time? How come? We were explaining that the website was wrong, and suggesting that the OP not rely on it.

 

[CopticChristian]

I am hoping to convert this Easter and I really need some help understanding this one idea. The Catholic Church, from this website, has added all their doctrines over a period of time. Purgatory came along after the Church was established, then Priest able to forgive sins…how would a good Catholic defend the faith here? BTW, I am looking to convert. Thanks.

Website: lavistachurchofchrist.org/LVanswers/2004/2004-04-01.htm

It is not adding. It is developing.

crossroadsinitiative.com/library_article/1048/Development_of_Doctrine_Vincent_of_Lerins.html

This website is the Church of Christ. Research the origins of the Campbellites and the Church of Christ.

 

[Defender1]

I forgot to add and I’m not sure if you already know/or have it. But you might want to get a copy of the Catholic Bible that includes the Apocryphal books.

God Bless.

I respectfully disagree with your view on the apocrypha . The 7 books that the KJV does not accept as scripture is not the Apocrypha . They are known as the Deuterocanonical books.A lengthy study on them and who first quoted from them will surely change your mind on whether they are like apocrypha or not . Wisdom chapter 2 for example gives the clearest bit of prophecy of the mockery of the solders scene(while Christ was being crucified .

 

[Defender1]

First of all, that is an anti-Catholic website. While they may be sincere, they are wrong.

The reason many people think that we “added” things is that we don’t have a catechism from the time of the Apostles. There were a lot of things which were taught all along, but we don’t have a written record until someone mentioned it, or until the concept needed to be clarified.

For example, the question of what precisely happens at the Consecration was not settled until the Council of Trent in the 1600s. The Catholic Church always taught that the bread and wine are the Body and Blood of Christ after the consecration, but the questiin of transsubstantiation or consubtantiation arose and was settled at Trent. So there are Protestants out there who say that we didn’t teach the True Presence until the Council of Trent.

There are people who attack the Church with maloce, but many who losten to them are sincerely concerned about the souls of Catholics. But unless you have a good grounding in the Faith and a reason for reading that stuff, you should stick to orthodox Catholic materials. Radio Replies is a 3-volume set of questiins and answers about the Faith whih can be found online. I learned a lot from those books (after reading the Baltimore Catechism).

Actually the Didiache was the first form of the catechism and written before the end of the 1st century AD while several of the Apostles were alive .

 

[CopticChristian]

I respectfully disagree with your view on the apocrypha . The 7 books that the KJV does not accept as scripture is not the Apocrypha . They are known as the Deuterocanonical books.A lengthy study on them and who first quoted from them will surely change your mind on whether they are like apocrypha or not . Wisdom chapter 2 for example gives the clearest bit of prophecy of the mockery of the solders scene(while Christ was being crucified .

I wouldn’t get so riled up about apocryphal. It just means “hidden”.

 

[Defender1]

I wouldn’t get so riled up about apocryphal. It just means “hidden”.

Hey , your a Coptic Christian? I am curious on a different topic , I am aware that some eastern orthodox Christians recognize more books then we Catholics do . Why do you believe this ? I am curious I am visiting a Coptic church next month and it catches my interest .

 

[CopticChristian]

Hey , your a Coptic Christian? I am curious on a different topic , I am aware that some eastern orthodox Christians recognize more books then we Catholics do . Why do you believe this ? I am curious I am visiting a Coptic church next month and it catches my interest .

I do not understand your question. Provide me something I can look at to know what you are talking about. Visit away.

 

[cmforte]

I wonder if anyone has asked this already: as a hopeful RCIA candidate, why are you visiting non-Catholic sites to seek understanding of Catholicism? Especially one as anti-Catholic (one that just doesn’t disagree with the Catholic Church, but is antagonistic against it)? While it refutes most established “christian” denominations, sects and cults in articles on its web site, it spends a greater amount of time on the Catholic Church, looking like what one may call an obsession. Maybe the La Vista Church of Christ is one of those that are on a special mission to “save” us poor, Hell-bound Catholics?

It even makes blatantly incorrect and inflammatory accusations of us, including that we pray to dead animals!!!: lavistachurchofchrist.org/LVarticles/BibleDoesNotTeachPrayingToDeadAnimals.html

I never, ever, ever, ever heard a Catholic, priest or otherwise, ever say, “Oh Rover, pray for me!!”

A true church or religion doesn’t spend any time explaining why another is false, it just explains why ***they ***are true, then the pieces will logically fall into place on their own. In my RCIA class the only times other denominations, sects or religions came up was when we students brought them up.

Seeking an understanding of Catholicism from many different perspectives is a good thing (I’ve done that myself and continue to do that), but I’d be careful what source you are using.

-Chris

 

[PiousTemplar]

Maybe this thread can help:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=216438 (2 Maccabees)

From this website:

catholic.com/library/Purgatory.asp

I have trouble understanding the confession to a Priest as well. So I will leave the more versed fellas help you with that.

But I think it is based on apostolic tradition on the interpretation of:

[bibledrb]John 20:23[/bibledrb]

God Bless

Wow, talk about a helpful protestant!

 

[cmforte]

I wonder if anyone has asked this already: as a hopeful RCIA candidate, why are you visiting non-Catholic sites to seek understanding of Catholicism? Especially one as anti-Catholic (one that just doesn’t disagree with the Catholic Church, but is antagonistic against it)? While it refutes most established “christian” denominations, sects and cults in articles on its web site, it spends a greater amount of time on the Catholic Church, looking like what one may call an obsession. Maybe the La Vista Church of Christ is one of those that are on a special mission to “save” us poor, Hell-bound Catholics?

It even makes blatantly incorrect and inflammatory accusations of us, including that we pray to dead animals!!!: lavistachurchofchrist.org/LVarticles/BibleDoesNotTeachPrayingToDeadAnimals.html

I never, ever, ever, ever heard a Catholic, priest or otherwise, ever say, “Oh Rover, pray for me!!”

A true church or religion doesn’t spend any time explaining why another is false, it just explains why ***they ***are true, then the pieces will logically fall into place on their own. In my RCIA class the only times other denominations, sects or religions came up was when we students brought them up.

Seeking an understanding of Catholicism from many different perspectives is a good thing (I’ve done that myself and continue to do that), but I’d be careful what source you are using.

-Chris

In your search for understanding of Catholicism from non-Catholic perspectives, I recommend this one: goarch.org/ourfaith/ourfaith8523 , goarch.org/ourfaith/ourfaith9454 , lutheranworld.org/News/LWI/EN/676.EN.html .

And here are some sites that confirm christianity’s history in Rome: sacred-destinations.com/italy/rome-san-clemente basilicasanclemente.com/excavations.htm , ewtn.com/library/CHRIST/LATERAN.HTM , archaeology.org/online/news/peter.html sacred-destinations.com/italy/rome-santa-maria-in-trastevere , sacred-destinations.com/italy/rome-catacombs , saintpetersbasilica.org/Necropolis/JW/TheBonesofStPeter-1.htm .

-Chris

 

[cmforte]

I am hoping to convert this Easter and I really need some help understanding this one idea. The Catholic Church, from this website, has added all their doctrines over a period of time. Purgatory came along after the Church was established, then Priest able to forgive sins…how would a good Catholic defend the faith here? BTW, I am looking to convert. Thanks.

Website: lavistachurchofchrist.org/LVanswers/2004/2004-04-01.htm

Maybe I am being too judgemental and jumping to conclusions. I thought you were a person interested in the Catholic Church but is visiting the wrong web sites for information on it. Are you actually a member or former member of the Church of Christ and that is why you referenced that web site? If so, my apologies for asking why you would do that. But the rest of comments are valid.

-Chris

 

[cmforte]

I wonder if anyone has asked this already: as a hopeful RCIA candidate, why are you visiting non-Catholic sites to seek understanding of Catholicism? Especially one as anti-Catholic (one that just doesn’t disagree with the Catholic Church, but is antagonistic against it)? While it refutes most established “christian” denominations, sects and cults in articles on its web site, it spends a greater amount of time on the Catholic Church, looking like what one may call an obsession. Maybe the La Vista Church of Christ is one of those that are on a special mission to “save” us poor, Hell-bound Catholics?

It even makes blatantly incorrect and inflammatory accusations of us, including that we pray to dead animals!!!: lavistachurchofchrist.org/LVarticles/BibleDoesNotTeachPrayingToDeadAnimals.html

I never, ever, ever, ever heard a Catholic, priest or otherwise, ever say, “Saint Rover, pray for me!!”

A true church or religion doesn’t spend any time explaining why another is false, it just explains why ***they ***are true, then the pieces will logically fall into place on their own. In my RCIA class the only times other denominations, sects or religions came up was when we students brought them up.

Seeking an understanding of Catholicism from many different perspectives is a good thing (I’ve done that myself and continue to do that), but I’d be careful what source you are using.

-Chris

 

[guanophore]

Hey , your a Coptic Christian? I am curious on a different topic , I am aware that some eastern orthodox Christians recognize more books then we Catholics do . Why do you believe this ? I am curious I am visiting a Coptic church next month and it catches my interest .

I think that “Coptic” has very little actual knowledge or experience with Coptic Christianity. I suggest you pose the question to an Orthodox or Catholic well versed in the Eastern Christian Traditions.

 

[jerseys520]

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[Defender1]

I do not understand your question. Provide me something I can look at to know what you are talking about. Visit away.

For example, Protestants reject 7 books we have in the OT. However it comes to my intention that EAstern Orthadox Catholics accept more then that 7 . Meaning the Protestants reject more books that Easterners accept . 4Maccabees …I am not sure of others .

 

[CopticChristian]

For example, Protestants reject 7 books we have in the OT. However it comes to my intention that EAstern Orthadox Catholics accept more then that 7 . Meaning the Protestants reject more books that Easterners accept . 4Maccabees …I am not sure of others .

The Catholic Church is East and West.

The Orthodox Church is East with a Russian, Greek & Coptic Orthodox Church and others. The Coptic Orthodox Church is not united as yet to the Catholic Church East and West.

It gets confusing because the Orthodox Churches do call themselves Catholic. This is the Coptic Orhtodox website you can look at. I cannot speak to what the Orthodox Churches have for Scripture. Guanophore is right you should ask an Orthodox about the Orthodox books.

copticchurch.net/

 

[Defender1]

The Catholic Church is East and West.

The Orthodox Church is East with a Russian, Greek & Coptic Orthodox Church and others. The Coptic Orthodox Church is not united as yet to the Catholic Church East and West.

It gets confusing because the Orthodox Churches do call themselves Catholic. This is the Coptic Orhtodox website you can look at. I cannot speak to what the Orthodox Churches have for Scripture. Guanophore is right you should ask an Orthodox about the Orthodox books.

copticchurch.net/

Thank you