I need help!

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I.B.

I think I might be able to help you with some of this if you are interested in talking off forum or via pm. I have a fairly good understanding and knowledge of Methodist Doctrine, and also Catholic.

Methodist believe in the 7 sacraments, and in many of their teachings are close to the Catholic Church. Maybe I could provide you some information that would open good dialog or ease your wife enough to do some honest looking into what the Catholic church really believes.

I would recommend a book called Grace Upon Grace. Rev. Neal is an amazing guy, and his main focus in on the sacraments. Hey has a vast amount of resources on his site. I am not sure if we are allowed to post links so I will tell you if you Google Rev Neal and grace you should find his site. Also you can pm me if you like.

Bellow I have posted the Methodist teaching on communion. I am sure you will notice some similarities to what you believe as a Catholic. Maybe sharing what you both have in common could really help open her up to your church.

** Article XVIII, The Articles of Religion, The Book of Discipline:
“The Supper of the Lord is not only a sign of the love that Christians ought to have among themselves one to another, but rather is a sacrament of our redemption by Christ’s death; insomuch that, to such as rightly, worthily, and with faith receive the same, the bread which we break is a partaking of the body of Christ; and likewise the cup of blessing is a partaking of the blood of Christ.

Article VI, The Confession of Faith, The Book of Discipline:
“…We believe the Lord’s Supper is a representation of our redemption, a memorial of the sufferings and death of Christ, and a token of love and union which Christians have with Christ and with one another. Those who rightly, worthily, and in faith, eat the broken bread and drink the blessed cup partake of the body and blood of Christ in a spiritual manner until he comes.” **

The next post is from the UMC website

**This Holy Mystery: A United Methodist Understanding of Holy Communion, the official statement on communion, says, "The Christian church has struggled through the centuries to understand just how Christ is present in the Eucharist. Arguments and divisions have occurred over the matter. The Wesleyan tradition affirms the reality of Christ’s presence, although it does not claim to be able to explain it fully…

**
 
kbpipes,

Thanks for your suggestions. I’m not sure this approach will be effective. My wife is not interested in theology. She doesn’t study Methodist doctrine or any doctrine for that matter. She reads Scripture passage and then applies it to her life. That’s the extent of it. So trying to approach her from a Methodist angle would be as effective as presenting Catholic teaching it seems.

I know much about Methodist doctrine as well, as I was one for the majority of my life. The Articles you referenced from the Discipline are deceiving to say the least. They may say they are “partaking on the body and blood of Christ” but then at the end of the service they are pouring the juice (not wine like Jesus used) down the sink (not a sacrarium which leads not into the sewer, but the consecrated ground under the church) and the crumbs are swept up into a vacuum. This is not a belife in “a real presence” as we understand it to be. Methodists have a very Zwingli (only representative) view of the Eucharist and NO change takes place. It’s mostly a spiritual thing as their Article states.

Another thing is that Methodists do NOT believe in all 7 Sacraments. They are like all the other Protestants who believe Christ instituted 2 Sacraments - Eucharist and Baptism only. The closest non-Sacrament may be Marriage as they view it highly, though divorce is still permissible and even encouraged in most situations. They certainly don’t believe in Holy Orders and they certainly do not have Orders as well. It’s really interesting because I have a friend who is a Methodist pastor and he’s darn convinced that he’s a “catholic” Christian. I just laugh at him because he thinks he can claim that title when really he’s not following the Church universal, but rather the teachings of mostly one man, John Wesley. Also, I’m not sure how he can justify that belief because in relation to a family tree type analogy, he would be like a 3rd Catholic cousin twice removed or something like that. Methodist from Anglican from Roman Catholic. So no, I tell him he’s not a “catholic” Christian.

The Methodist church my wife attends is a country-bumkin kind of community. They are civilized people however it’s very low church, though they follow the standard Methodist “liturgy” (if one wants to call it that). It drives me nuts!! Especially the Children’s Messages which in my eyes are really for the adults to sit back and laugh at all the darndest things the silly children say and do. It’s a joke and I cringe every time my wife takes our 2 year old down for this stupid thing.

Another thing I’m obligated to address:

You posted from the UMC website:
This Holy Mystery: A United Methodist Understanding of Holy Communion, the official statement on communion, says, "The Christian church has struggled through the centuries to understand just how Christ is present in the Eucharist. Arguments and divisions have occurred over the matter. The Wesleyan tradition affirms the reality of Christ’s presence, although it does not claim to be able to explain it fully…

The UMC website is incorrect in making this claim. The Apostolic Church (i.e. Catholic, Orthodox, Oriental) have ALWAYS agreed that Christ IS TRUELY present - substantially, Spiritually, and Really - in the Eucharist. There is a change that happens during the Epiclesis (words of Consecration). This has never been disputed until the Protestant Reformation. That is a fact. And anyone who did deny this reality was deemed a heretic and excommunicated from the Church.

So while on the outside their fluffy words on the Eucharist looks to be close to ours, their belief is really quite different and therefore I can’t find common ground with my wife as fully as I could if she were a high church Anglican or an Orthodox Christian.

Thank you for this suggestion. I appreciate you taking interest in my life. I welcome more comments please.

Peace of Christ,
James
 
Friend, what I read here is probably similar to what your wife is picking up on: you’ve examined your old church, looked around and concluded that the Catholic church is closer to truth than the old one. Now, you look down on the old one and see all the warts.

This attitude belittles your wife and those others in your life who still hold to that faith. Sure, you’re convinced, but you can’t convice them by telling them they’re stupid. I know you’re not literally doing that, but comments about your friend not being little “c” catholic show exactly that attitude. He defines catholic church as Christ’s Universal church - all believers. You tell him he is not Catholic. In his belief system, he is catholic, but you cannot accept his system - even for him.

That type of conversion attitude will put a hugh wall between you and your wife. Remember, six months or a year ago, you believed the same as them. Now, you’ve moved on, they are still there. Appearing to be Holier-than-thou isn’t going to win friends.

My wife does the same sort of thing and it drive me crazy. She makes little condescending comments, performs rituals that are for her own private use but she does them in public as if to show how religious she is now. There are countless little acts and words that suggest I’m so much less of a Christian because I haven’t seen the true lgith and followed her. That constant little smack-down eats at a spouse. Also, remember the very act of walking away from your old faith makes everyone question a) how commited you are in life to important things b) what else you’re going to change and c) if you are going to stick to the change.

You are convinced of a,b and c, but don’t expect everyone else to be. Try and tone down the conversion experience and see if that helps.
 
First, I would like to express my gratitude for your service to this great country.

Second, I am not married, and I am in my early twenties, so my answer is based on my limited experience.

I feel your pain regarding interreligious relationships. I have been dating my boyfriend, who is Jewish, for almost 3 years. It has been a struggle. And there are many more differences between Catholics and Jews than between Catholics and Methodists!

Rather than seeing the theological differences between you and your wife, concentrate on what you believe in common. It is easy to get caught up with the details, but nit-picking is not going to help; in fact, it is going to hurt the relationship between you and your wife. It is important to feel connected to your spouse, since two become one in marriage. However, there will always be some differences.

Of course we always think that we are right. You think you are right, and your wife thinks that she is right. Rather than trying to convert her or criticizing her views, or trying to show her in which ways you two disagree, try to listen to her, and be a good example yourself of the way you want to live and the way that faith guides you. What better way to convince someone than being loving and caring and acting in a way that Jesus would have? Remember, Jesus walked among those whom many of us would prefer to keep away from and to criticize. Of course, your wife isn’t that way, but I think this example, which is much more extreme, shows how you should be acting in front of her and treating her.
 
I.B.

I totally agree with you, and you are correct many Methodist churches practice one thing, and the church teaches another. We could go round and round about this, and really it does not matter. I was to be a minister in the Methodist church. Many of my friends are Methodist ministers. The teachings of their church are set in a way that allows freedom.

Many of the reasons you mentioned are exactly why my wife felt a desire to leave the Methodist church. She believed in the real presence of Jesus in the bread and wine. She was the first to say it is a mystery and we do not understand it, but she believed it was his body and blood. Things like lazy or poor practices when it came to the sacraments ultimately is what caused her to look for more authentic faith.

My wife is progressive, and on the liberal side. She loved so much of the Methodist church, but now has no desire to enter a Methodist church.

I personally believe showing the similarities of the faiths even if it is on face value will help. Until she understands what is missing, you cannot convince her that what she has is incomplete.

Given I was in a similar boat. I feel I have given you some options that I know have worked for me and others. I pray for the best for you and your wife.

Pax
 
IgnatiusBenedic, have you read Steubenville University professor and Catholic apologist Scott Hahn and his wife Kimberly’s book “Rome Sweet Home” (I hope I have that title right)? It is the story of their conversion to the Catholic Church. Kimberly had fulfilled her dreams by marrying a Presbyterian minister, and when Scott decided to convert to Catholicism, she was afraid that it would destroy their marriage. We all know how the story turned out, but they had several very difficult years. Your wife is probably not ready for a book such as this, but it would help you to see that others have trod this path, and how they did it.
 
Dear ChosenAndCalled

Thank you for your thoughts. Your first statement is somewhat on the mark. However I don’t begrudge my growing up as a Methodist. It taught me a love for the Scriptures and a love for Jesus. I don’t think any real convert regrets where they’ve come from. I know many Catholic converts who appreciate their Protestant background - Steve Ray (Baptist), Dr. Scott Hahn (Presbyterian), Tim Staples (Baptist), Marcus Grodi (Lutheran and Presbyterian/Congregational), and many others I could name.
And you’re right Chosen, I do see the warts because they are there. If those warts didn’t exist I would have been in the Church Jesus established and I wouldn’t have needed to make a change. I’m thankful the Holy Spirit revealed to me what He did. Deo Gratias!

When talking with my wife, I have never once told her “you’re wrong”. Infact, I’ve said to her many times that where she’s at doctrinally is where God wants her to be, it’s where she’s at in her spiritual walk with the Lord. In my case, and for all the others who convert, I received a special grace that allowed me to accept Christ’s Church.
I don’t tell anyone their stupid who disagree with me. I just ask them to not go off personal feelings and interpretation, but to use faith and reason. The ultimate disagreement between my wife and I (and you I presume too) comes down to authority. Everything else stems from that one word. My wife believes just like every other Protestant, that she has the authority to determine and decide what Truth is by looking at her Bible passages. Of course we know God is Truth and that He has but ONE truth since God cannot contridict Himself. So we ask how can we discover this one truth and live by it? We have a road map (the Bible), but why is it when I interpret the road map I go in a different direction than the next fellow who is doing the same thing I am? Well, the conclusion I came to during all my investigating was that I am NOT the one who should be interpreting this roadmap, which is the Bibl,e to determine what is God’s divine set Truth (II Peter says- for no Scripture is open to private interpretation). And to be quite frank, I’m glad it’s not my responsiblity because I’m sure it’s quite daunting I’m sure. Scripture itself tells us that God gave us an authoritative structure to help guide us and to reveal His Truth, it’s called the Church. There are many references in the Bible that state this such as: 1 Timothy 3:15 says " But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth."
So during my time of investigating I was perplexed and I asked myself who this Church Scripture speaks of must be? There are so many options of churches to chose from. Which of the 30,000 Protestant denominations is this Church, which is the pillar and foundation of truth, Scripture speaks of? I knew the churches I was most familiar with only went back to the 1500’s at the very earliest and there must be a Church that goes back even further to the time of Christ Himself. Long story short, I found that authoritative Body and it’s the Universal/Catholicos/Catholic Church comprised of every nation, skin color, culture, and ethnicity. It’s One, Holy and Apostolic.
That was one of my “aha moments”. It makes perfect sense to me. Anyone else?

Honestly, my friend is not a catholic Christian. Just because a person thinks something doesn’t make it so. There are certain criteria that need to be present to make him a “catholic” Christian. I named a few of them in the above paragraph. He is part of a Christian sect that broke away from the Church. Is he still a Christian? Most certainly! By virtue of his Baptism he is. It doesn’t make him a universal Christian externally though. You know, maybe this animosity you described happens between Catholics and Protestants because Catholics are on to something. The truth is always a hard pill to swallow and there’s hardly a gentle way to present certain truths without suger-coating it to unruffle feathers. Methodists are no different than any other sect started by one man that the Universal Church has defended against. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_heresies

There is a huge wall between my wife because she choses there to be one. I am very charitable when we discuss things. Now, granted I’m human, I know I’ve come across some times in a manner that wasn’t so sensitive. But she is the one who does not want to read anything I’ve read. She thinks I’m getting a slanted view because “it’s from a Catholic viewpoint”. Well, I tell her look honey, I know the other viewpoint (Protestant) because that’s all I’ve known before. Pilate asked Jesus, “What is truth? Will I know it when I hear it?” Joyfully I can say to Pilate - Yes you will!!! My wife is what’s causing a stalemate in our relationship. She is being stubborn and she’s not letting the Spirit work within her.

I’ve been on this journey about 2 years before I actually was Confirmed Catholic. It’s been about 3 years total that my wife has known how I feel about church. And it’s been three years that we have gotten no where because of her refusal to do so. I do not act “holier then thou” with my wife and friends. I just live the faith. If that’s their perception then maybe they aren’t living the Christian faith to the fullest extent.

CONTINUED:
 
CONTINUED:

Chosen my brother in Christ
Some insight about your wife:
I don’t agree with her condescending remarks. That’s not how the Church teaches us to act with our non-Catholic brothers and sisters. Her “little rituals” are just her living the Catholic faith. Our faith is very visible. It’s physical, as well as spiritual. We make the sign of the Cross. We use incense during prayers. We use holy water for various things.
I’m not fully sure what you mean by saying “she does them in public as to show how religious she is now”. Do you mean making the sign of the cross? If you are, that’s what we do. God gave us the physical because He knew we need it. Please explain your comments further.
When I pray with my wife I don’t make the sign of the cross. I do at Mass though. I understand where your wife is coming from. She doesn’t feel like you’d understand much less appreciate the physical gestures we make as a sign of our faith. It’s not because she’s acting as a Pharisee or something.

I don’t smack down my wife. I try to build her up in her walk with the Lord. I just know how much she is missing out on, that’s all. I’m sure your wife feels the same way, she just may not be going about it properly.

Ya know Chosen, I didn’t walk away from my old faith. It’s like when Jew discovers that Jesus is the long awaited Messiah, they always say I’m a completed Jew. The same thing applies to those who have discovered the Church. We say, I was a Christian before, but now I’m a completed Christian because I now have the fullness of what Christ intended for me.
I think by becoming Catholic even though I knew my wife and family was vehemently against it, shows I AM committed to the important things in life. I have conviction and I’m willing to stand up for what my heart and mind tells me regardless of the consequences. (B) We change every day. Everyday we’re someone different. Profound conversions, like mine, have a drastic effect on how we view the world and our daily lives. It’s bound to create other changes, hopefully for the better. (C) A change such as this renders the conclusion that it’s forever. It’s not like changing baseball teams because in 20 years they haven’t won a pennant. St. Paul remained a Catholic Christian after his dramatic conversion, and I will do the same regardless of the outcome (death, divorce, bankruptcy, etc.).

Marysann,
Yes I have read “Rome Sweet Home” and loved it. You’re right, it does give me some hope that even the hardest of hearts can be softened. My wife will not read ANYTHING which is why this whole thing is a hard situation.

All of you,
Thank you for your prayers for my wife and family. I really do appreciate it.

Any other thoughts or suggestions?

Pax Christi,
James
 
Just continue to tread with love and patience. You may be the only catechism your wife ever reads.
 
*I would only offer to simply keep loving your wife, and pursuing the faith. They don’t have to be mutually exclusive. You can’t control your wife’s reactions, only yourself, and if you just keep loving her, showing her you care, etc…hopefully, she’ll see that your faith isn’t going to change who you are to her, as her husband. Again, praying for you and your marriage. *
 
TOP said:
No, no, no. Don’t do this!!! Your work in Iraq is between you , your priest, maybe a counselor and God. OUT
Click to expand...
I ABSOLUTELY AGREE!

There is no good reason for sharing this experience with anyone other than your priest or counselor. To do so would serve no ‘earthly’ purpose. Believe me, I retired a Major. My wife came over to Germany and we were married there right after my tour in Vietnam. She picked up on some of what my buddies and went through, and that was enough, because it affected her greatly.

As married men, we have a vocation. Our vocation has a name. Mine is “Karen.” We took a solemn vow before our magnificent Savior to spend the rest of our lives serving Him through our spouce. Nothing more. Nothing less.

Pax Et Bonum!
 
I appreciate your responses, OP, but I do believe you’re not looking at this from your wife’s perspective.

The very act of leaving the faith you both celebrated is an act of violent condemnation toward her. You don’t mean it to be, but it can not be anything but one. You’ve found “the truth” and she obviously hasn’t - you know that because you were there with her before and now you’re in “the truth” and she is still where she was. Only you know both sides. These are arguments you make simply by leaving, not words you have to throw.

You have a convert’s zeal, she is still content to be where she is. It does not feel like you respect that - otehrwise you’d stop putting pressure on her to convert. Implied somewhere in her mind may be the seed of , “What he really wants is a Catholic wife and if I don’t conform, what happens.” I know that is certainly in my mind. Is she “good enough” for you just the way she is, or do you need to accomidate her failure to accept “the truth”?

And, on that point, you don’t know much about non-catholic branches of the Christian church, based on your responses. You’re spouting the 30,000 denomination, everyone gets to make their own truth prattle that is spoken here a lot. Those are untruths and if you are saying them to your wife, you’re only re-enforcing the notion that she is wrong and you are right.

I am a member of the catholic churhc, friend. A Christian, called and chosen of god, redeemed by Christ, made alive in Christ through the regeneration of the Holy Spirit. My sins are forgiven by the Father because of the work of the Son. “For, God made Him who knew not sin to become sin so that we can become His righteousness.”

This makes me part of the church universal, or catholic church. To deny that is to brand me outside the visible church and, essentially, call me a non-christian. Is that how you think of your friend? Your wife? It shows in your attitude.

My own marriage is a dust-covered throw rug ontop of a beautiful antique couch. It’s not my wife’s fault, it’s not my fault, it’s our fault. I know, though, that if I had abandoned my faith and followed her to the Catholic church it would not be this way. She wants a Catholic man, even if she doesn’t say it with her mouth. I can never be that man, but we still love each other in the sense of being together and staying a family, so that’s what we have to hold to.

What is it you want? Like Jacob Marley, I’m visiting you and telling you what appears to be your future.
 
Thank you for helping me.

I’m sorry you’re having such troubles, and I don’t want to play devil’s advocate but I can really understand what she is feeling. Was there ANYTHING regarding becoming Catholic - even just a thought of maybe that’s for me - prior to getting married? If there was, I think you should have shared this with her. I can understand that you didn’t want to hurt the relationship with something you wern’t sure about at the time, but if you knew this prior to getting married, you really should have said something to her - especially after she made it abundantly clear she wanted nothing to do with the Catholic faith or with a Catholic man. If I were her, I would also feel like I married one man and then a couple of years later he changes to the very thing I told him I would never want to be married to - the very thing I told him I would never want.
One thing I will tell you is that it’s been discussed on here (usually the other way around with marital sex) - that if the spouse wants to use birth control and you’ve made it clear you don’t agree then the sin is on the spouse not on you. But did you have any problem with contraception prior to becomming Catholic and did you tell her this? If not than this is like having something sprung on her after the deal was made. I understand that relationships grow and change -and people do the same- but telling her I won’t be with you if you use contraception - that’s just giving her another reason to push you farther away. And I’m sorry to say this but what you may feel as gently speaking to her about Catholicism may be coming out to her as a subject you just won’t let die. Let’s remember here that for 8 months you were in RCIA, she knew it and with the comment you said she made about Catholicism, I bet she resented you for it or at least felt betrayed. Before she brings up seperating, I would ask her to go to either Christian or NON Secular (not Catholic, because I seriously doubt she’d go - it would seem like two people ganging up on her) Counseling. I feel for you but I also feel for her - she married this one man who she believed felt the same as she did about her faith - then suddenly, he decides to join a group to become Catholic and tells her that she won’t make love to me unless she won’t use birth control - I"m sorry but I’d be wondering what the heck happened to the man I married. I would lay off the whole “talking” about Catholicism. People of different faiths can have good marriages - but it’s like you said suddenly, “you have to change for what I believe - it doesn’t matter if you believe it or not because I’m right” (that basically what you’re doing with the contraception issue) - you need to speak with a Priest about this. He might have some ideas on how to help. But seriuosly, lay off talking about the Catholicism - if you are practicing the faith, then with God’s help she’ll become curious as to why you seem to be more peaceful. I’m sorry you two can’t go to the same Church each week (I guess you could but then you’d still have to go to Mass later) - maybe that’s an idea - go to church with her and the kids and then go to mass - that way you’re not completely blocking her out.
You’re in a bad pickle - I understand you believe you were doing the right thing (and congrats on becoming Catholic) - but try to look at it from her perspective. Many wives have husbands that have gone away from the faith or are of another faith - when there is something like this, we pray - I suggest you do the same - But it seems lke you have this urgency for her to be Catholic-you didn’t become Catholic over night - and she may never see things the way you do - that doesn’t make her a bad person it just means she has different beliefs than you. One question I have no doubt that the counselor will ask her is why she is so negative towards Catholicism - I suggest you find this out as well. It could be a misconception or something like that. I’ll say a prayer for you and your family. Now is the time to be a patient, loveing husband. Not a husband who is right about Catholicism (although granted we on here generally feel you are) and won’t let it die. You’ll wind up divorced if you keep making ultimatems (i.e. no sex if you continue using birth control). Also, I know you work hard, but there is no job like that of being a mother - I think some of the not understanding your “love language” may have more to do with having a 2 year old and a 10 month old than you think. Let her know you have no intention of trying to convert her and put the Catholic books on the book shelf. With any luck she’ll become curious about how you’ve come to peace over this (with God’s help) and then maybe she’ll secretly start looking at them. If she does ever decide to become interested in Catholicism, she may not tell you for a bit because she may be embarassed. For goodness sake give her time without any pressure. You sound like a preety wonderful husband otherwise - helping out with all types of things. But one other point and then I’ll shut up - I know you don’t think you’re pushing the Faith on her, it may seem to her like you are - you’re trying to get her to read books about Catholicism - books about Church Fathers, you won’t go to Methodist Church with her because you find it “watered down” but you will go to Mass and through many months of RCIA- it must seem to her like you’ve not only left the Faith she believed you to be a part of when you got married but one who is now putting down her Faith.
I apologize if this came off really hard but I hope it helps.
God Bless
Rye
Annie
 
*This might sound trite and corny…but here goes. You know that song, Faithfully, by the band Journey? The line of "two strangers learn to fall in love again…’’ I think about that song when reading this thread. You were gone for a while, you changed your stand of the faith, she didn’t. She changed though, too, probably in your absence. I have read that happens sometimes, in army families. I think that it could be as simple as that, two ‘‘strangers’’ learning to fall in love again. Starting over on some levels. I would not stop pursuing your faith, but I would concentrate on getting your marriage back on track.

I just sense that is more at the heart of what’s going on. Your faith happens to be the most profound change you experienced overseas, and she is taken aback. The one thing I would not do, is not pursue the faith for your wife. Don’t even consider that. We can’t control people’s reactions to what we tell them, we can only control how we react. You didn’t tell her you committed adultery, you told her you’re thinking of joining the Church. There ARE worst things in a marriage for a spouse to hear from the other. :o

Just my two cents, but give that song some consideration. It really simplified this thread for me…you are both somewhat ‘‘strangers’’ to one another on some levels. Might have to begin anew, and wipe the slate clean, if possible. *
 
Annie,
Thanks for your reply.

I thought I addressed this beyond my initial post. I DO go to her church service every Sunday. I told her I think it’s important to keep our family together in the pew. I make it to either the Saturday Vigil Mass or Sunday evening Mass. I agreed that because I’m the one changing that our kids will be raised according to her faith. You have no idea how much I’m bending here.

You don’t see what all I’ve done for her as well and still try to maintain what I believe in. I’ve been part of two Bible studies in my parish that I’ve dropped out of because she wanted me home to help out. It was once a week for a little over an hour. So I dropped out because I wanted to be a good husband. I don’t even go out with my friends.

I don’t know what Catechism you’re reading or if we’re part of the same Catholic Church, but to my knowledge the Church believes contraception is intrinstically evil and a grave sin. I’ve been told there is no compromise on the issue and we’re still morally obligated especially if our spouse wants to use it because it takes two to participate in the conjugal act. We know that chemical contraceptions cause the fertilized egg to be sloughed off therefore it’s abortion at its most earliest stage. Knowing this I’m obligated to God when I die to explain why I continued to allow my wife to hurt herself with that **** knowing it causes a new life to be flushed. I don’t think so. I won’t take any part of it and I know the Church backs me up. Sex is not required to have a happy marriage.

The other thing you asked:
I had NO intentions before we were married of being Catholic. I wanted to be in some sort of ministry, so she knew I was serious about the faith we shared. Infact, I was very anti-Catholic. I thought the Church had stupid customs and traditions. I thought priestly celebacy was wrong (I was nieve) and I just didn’t fully understand what I was talking about. I couldn’t stop the move of the Spirit. To do so I would be going against my conscience which is a sin. Certain things happened while I was on deployment to Iraq and then when I got home that eventually led to this decision - which is common among those who convert. I didn’t tell her because I knew she’s anti-Catholic and she’s immediately shut me down. I wanted to find out where God was going to go with it. And it’s not like I completely hid it from her. She knew I was reading a book called “Is the Reformation Over? An Evangelical Look at Modern Catholicism”.

No, I don’t expect my wife to become Catholic. Please read all my posts before commenting. I expect understanding and acceptance for what the Holy Spirit has done in my life. That’s what I expect. I don’t care if she becomes Catholic in 5 years, 20 years, or ever. I just want the best marriage and I argue it’s because of her resentment and unwillingness to learn is why we’re not as happy as we could be.

And no, you should see the attention I receive. I’m just as tired with work and taking care of the children as she is and yet I make an attempt to grab her hand in the kitchen. I’m always passing out backrubs like they’re going out of style. I RARELY receive a rub across the back from her. I’m telling you, you have no idea. It has some to do with her being tired from work and stuff, but my argument is that if our marriage was better, she’d WANT to make an effort but because it’s not, she has no desire to attempt intimacy.
I’m not saying sex every night, I’m saying do something to make me know you love me. Just don’t tell me and do contrary.

Again, I’m not pressuring her to become Catholic.

Question for Chosen:

Do you believe God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit have revealed one divine truth to man?
What makes one a universal Christian? Are Mormons “catholic” Christians? By what characteristics does a “catholic” Christian embody? If it’s simply faith in Jesus then you could say Mormans, JW’s, and every heretical sect are “catholic” Christians. Right?

-James
 
whatevergirl said:
*This might sound trite and corny…but here goes. You know that song, Faithfully, by the band Journey? The line of "two strangers learn to fall in love again…’’ I think about that song when reading this thread. You were gone for a while, you changed your stand of the faith, she didn’t. She changed though, too, probably in your absence. I have read that happens sometimes, in army families. I think that it could be as simple as that, two ‘‘strangers’’ learning to fall in love again. Starting over on some levels. I would not stop pursuing your faith, but I would concentrate on getting your marriage back on track.

I just sense that is more at the heart of what’s going on. Your faith happens to be the most profound change you experienced overseas, and she is taken aback. The one thing I would not do, is not pursue the faith for your wife. Don’t even consider that. We can’t control people’s reactions to what we tell them, we can only control how we react. You didn’t tell her you committed adultery, you told her you’re thinking of joining the Church. There ARE worst things in a marriage for a spouse to hear from the other. :o

Just my two cents, but give that song some consideration. It really simplified this thread for me…you are both somewhat ‘‘strangers’’ to one another on some levels. Might have to begin anew, and wipe the slate clean, if possible. *
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Whatevergirl,

Yes thank you very much. That’s a very wise analysis of my situation. When I returned from war after being gone for 18 months we never had the chance to strengthen our relationship to the point is was before I left. We certainly need to rediscover each other again. That’s what I’m having problems figuring out how to do. I appreciate your comments.

James
 
IgnatiusBenedic said:
Question for Chosen:

Do you believe God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit have revealed one divine truth to man?
What makes one a universal Christian? Are Mormons “catholic” Christians? By what characteristics does a “catholic” Christian embody? If it’s simply faith in Jesus then you could say Mormans, JW’s, and every heretical sect are “catholic” Christians. Right?

-James
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Of course I believe that God has revealed one devine truth - it just doesn’t happen to be ensconced in the teachings of the Catholic church in my opinion. If you want to debate who is a sect or who is a brother, then there are other forums here. I was just addressing the rather arrogant tone you seem to be taking with your friend over catholic (which means universal) church. If you study your own church’s teachings, you’d find that the Catholic church considers non-Catholic christians to be estranged brothers, joined mystically to the Catholic church in ways known only to God, so even your church would hold that man, if he is a christian, as part of the catholic church.

I fear that you have not studied either your own faith, or - especially - the faiths of others and are merely using convert’s zeal to express what you do know. It’s a wonderful stage to be in for the person who is living it, but a horrible one for those around him or her.

I still wonder about the question I posed, the same one I know the answer to for my wife, is your spouse still good enough for you, or does she have to become Catholic in order to be the wife you really want?
 
ChosenAndCalled said:
Of course I believe that God has revealed one devine truth - it just doesn’t happen to be ensconced in the teachings of the Catholic church in my opinion. If you want to debate who is a sect or who is a brother, then there are other forums here. I was just addressing the rather arrogant tone you seem to be taking with your friend over catholic (which means universal) church. If you study your own church’s teachings, you’d find that the Catholic church considers non-Catholic christians to be estranged brothers, joined mystically to the Catholic church in ways known only to God, so even your church would hold that man, if he is a christian, as part of the catholic church.

I fear that you have not studied either your own faith, or - especially - the faiths of others and are merely using convert’s zeal to express what you do know. It’s a wonderful stage to be in for the person who is living it, but a horrible one for those around him or her.

I still wonder about the question I posed, the same one I know the answer to for my wife, is your spouse still good enough for you, or does she have to become Catholic in order to be the wife you really want?
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You’re not addressing technicalities here. I’m well aware of what my Church teaches regarding other Christians. Please take time and review my last posts. They will answer both of your questions. But I feel the need to restate myself for your convenience.

I never said you or my Methodist pastor friend is not a Christian. I’m well aware my Church teaches that by your Baptism you are joined mystically to the Catholic Church (that must be good enough for you rather than seek full corporate unity). The discrepancy lies in the fact of what makes one a “catholic/universal” Christian. Here is where my Church would agree with me. Just because you’re a Chritian doesn’t mean you’re catholic. The Catholic (big or small “c”) faith is the faith that has been believed “at all times, in all places and by all peoples”. - That is a statement by my Church. Now, has the Lutheran or Methodist or what name you been that “universal” faith that has been known to all Christians “at all times (continuity), in all places (knows no boundaries) and by all peoples (creed, gender, race, ethnicity)”? No, because if Methodist, Anglicans, Lutherans, whoever were that universal faith, then there would have been no need for Luther, Calvin, Henry VIII, etc. to start their own church. But they did and thus they opened the door for anyone to be their own authority and theologian. You said it yourself that God has revealed ONE truth to mankind but you “don’t believe it’s the Catholic faith”. By what criteria are you going by other than hardness of heart? Again I ask, are you the interpreter of the Scriptures and of this “one faith” that God has revealed to mankind (if so who I’d like to know who gave you that authority) or did God provide a means for us to know the fullness of what He has to offer through the Church He established? The hardest words for a Protestant to utter are the words “I’m not the pope”.

Please brother, don’t surmise that you know the depth of my theological understanding and knowledge of what my Church teaches. I’m not your typical, nor stereotypical, Catholic who only thinks about God once a week while in the pew. I’ve spent years listening to theological cd’s, I’m an avid watcher of EWTN, and I’ve read most of the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Also, I know the Methodist faith. Talk about starting a debate. Maybe it’s a good idea if you withdraw yourself from the forum I started? You’re welcome to stay if you can talk about these issues without getting upset and are willing to discover the truth charitably.

I will answer your question about my wife again. I stated in a few posts back, that I recognize she may not be where I am spiritually. We all go with God at our own pace. I have been blessed with a special grace to see the Church that He established and I acted on that grace and have been blessed 10 fold. My wife hasn’t yet and that’s fine. I’m ok with that. I DON"T NEED HER TO CONVERT. What I need is for her to accept what the Lord has done in MY life and for her to loose her resentment and hostility. She is my wife. I wouldn’t trade her in for a Catholic one. I just want her to be crazy about me again. That’s all.

Sounds like you have the issues my wife has - since we’re into diagnosing problems here. Sounds like you are bitter and holding onto resentment as well. And by the way you talk to me about things, I’m sure you haven’t been a saint towards your wife as well. I’m sure you’ve made some harsh comments to her since her conversion. Just let go of it man. Let the Spirit work in your life. There is but One Church Christ established. It’s Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic as well. If you’ve done all the research you said you’ve done, you would have figured that out. But I think you may have studied under a prejudice eye. Let the scales fall my BROTHER IN CHRIST (not catholic though).

Sometimes subtleties do not work.

Pax Christi,
James

James
 
Friend, you came here to ask for help with your wife and your marriage situation. I’m in the same boat your wife is in and I’m just offering insight. I’m don’t care if you’re a new convert who knows nothing about your fath or a budding Doctor of the Church - I’m talking about your attitude toward your wife.
  1. You made the UNILATERAL choice that vastly affect both of you. What if you and your wife both had agreed that you would never have children - the very idea scared you - then, all on her own without telling you, your wife tells you that she got pregnant on purpose. She had decided that her life was not fulfilled without a child. Furthermore, she then begins to pester you about changing your own attitude about children and embracing a large family. She leaves books around the house, gets new friends and begins to intimate that she won’t have sex with you unless she’s fertile. You’d be upset, no? She has made a decision that will affect you both and one that goes directly against what you had agreed upon when you married.
  2. Your feeling toward the Catholic church was strong enough before the conversion to make you say you’d naver have married a Catholic. Now, since your conversion, that’s obviously different. What about your wife? How have you helped her deal with these feelings? You’ve so changed your position on something so fundementatal, how can she be certain that you’re not going to do it again, and again and again - not with religion, but other important aspects. How have you re-assured her that you’re still the man she married and not becoming someone your wife does not recognize.
  3. Have you realized that your decision, as lovely as it is for you, came with costs for your wife. That is, you got all the benefits and had some costs, but she only got cost with no benefits. She got all pain and no gain. Have you expressed to her that you know you’ve inflicted pain into her life and you’re sorry? Havee you tried to make it any easier on her?
What I see is a man who is excited about his new-found faith, but who has caused a lot of pain in his wife’s life because of it. I know this, I live it. I know what living a life with someone sho doesn’t seem to care about the pain they have inflected on you can cost. I know about losing the ability to serve my church or worship as a complete family. I understand the sorrow of knowing that I have to be 100% responsible for teaching the children and I also have to do so in ways that explains who Mommy goes somewhere else without criticing Mommy. I feel the burden of teaching them my faith and somehow teaching them in a way that keeps them from getting confused by the VAST differences between my faith and my wife’s. That’s not what I signed up for - it was thrust upon me. I had no say in the decision, but I live with the consequences. And, the lack seeming lack of care on my spouse’s part about that cost is very hurtsome.

So, yes I’m telling you my experiences, and they may differ from your wife’s. I pray it is, because if she’s been shown how expendable she is and how little her feelings matter to the degree I have, then you too will have a shell of a marriage.

You made the choice for her, in my opinion, it’s up to you to build the bridge back to her.
 
  1. Have you realized that your decision, as lovely as it is for you, came with costs for your wife. That is, you got all the benefits and had some costs, but she only got cost with no benefits. She got all pain and no gain. Have you expressed to her that you know you’ve inflicted pain into her life and you’re sorry? Havee you tried to make it any easier on her?
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I wouldn’t go so far to say that. This may make him kinder, more patient… he has the grace of sacraments you don’t have, C&C. It sounds like he’s being a very good husband and father. Sure goes out of his way to help in ways my xh didn’t.

C&C, you have shown him how his marriage can be a shell. Because you have shown him what will happen to him if by choosing what he sees as the fullness of the truth, if his wife holds onto bitterness like you have, he is doomed to a shell of a marriage.

Maybe you think if she renounced her faith, your marriage would be fine. Let me tell you what it would do to her… now that she has seen the fullness of the teaching of Christ as it was handed down from Him to the Apostles and guarded for 2 millennia, if she were to renounce it now, and give in to your demands, she would be committing apostasy and heresy. She would be cutting herself off from God. She would be ensuring her own damnation to make a so-called peace with a man who never forgave her for her conversion.

Not a good trade. Keep hectoring and badgering her like you do to this poster and it is obvious why she feels nothing but coldness to you. Life changes us all. Sometimes in surprising ways. 13 people went to work yesterday at Ft Hood and didn’t come home. Everyone who witnessed the carnage is changed. Some may be changed spiritually and may look for something to answer the new questions in their minds and hearts.

You are wrong, C&C that this choice was unilateral. He was given a grace that he didn’t seek. God planted the seed of conversion in his soul. That was not a unilateral choice. It was a call from his Creator to see more. Like your wife experienced. Something that can give him strength and joy.

Your anti-Catholic prejudices come through loud and clear here. He goes out of his way going to church with his family. He is allowing them to be raised Methodist, which is a BIG concession. I wonder, C&C, if you will be so harsh to any of your children if they decide to be Catholic when they are older.

Funny thing is, usually you see it in the other direction. People decide Catholicism is too hard and asks too much and so they retreat to a faith system that asks less of them.

Sometimes when God asks more of us, it comes at a cost. C&C, you really insult the OP when you say he hasn’t had many of the costs of his conversion.

To James, keep courting her. I can’t say it enough. If your faith makes you more gentle, more at peace, more patient… she eventually will grow to trust that this is who you are now and you won’t change.
 
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