I really am trying to Return to Catholicism BUT!

[Madaglan]

Originally Posted by peary:

One of the effects of the protestant revolt in the 15th century was the eventual rejection of the Sacred or Divine Liturgy. Once the liturgy was rejected, then there had to be a supplanting of a non-sacred celebration or service. In Eastern-rite Catholicism, it is still referred to as the “Divine Liturgy” as well as in the Orthodox tradition. In the West it is called the ‘Mass’ but, even prior to Vatican II was considered ‘sacred’ and ‘divine’. As Scott Hahn points out to his readers, the Mass is “Heaven on earth”; hence, the ‘Divine’ or ‘Sacred’ Liturgy. Once you numb the senses and the heart to what is sacred or divine, you lose the sense of connection.

The historic Protestant communities maintained a liturgy. Indeed, even in Germany, the Lutheran churches were at first appearances indistinguishable from the Catholic churches. Lutherans mostly maintained the outer appearance of worship. They also kept the “Mass” with many of its component prayers: BUT, they dropped the Roman canon. Most Protestants did not reject liturgy itself, but what they believed the Roman Catholics had falsely added–namely the canon which presents the Eucharist as a true Sacrifice. Many Protestant hymns written at the time and afterwards were lovely to hear, and were played in the churches. Many of these same hymns are now sung in Roman Catholic churches.

But you are right in several regards: many Protestant groups (such as those Reformed folk, and the Anabaptist) removed from the liturgy much of the “smells and bells” that was associated with Roman Catholicism.

So, in short: the Protestants didn’t openly reject liturgy as such, but the liturgy as done by Roman Catholicism. Removing Christ’s “Real Presence” from the Mass, from the Eucharist, can be considered as a loss of the sacredness of the Mass.

 

[po18guy]

Truthfully, with one exception from my childhood, I’d not met ANY angry/hateful/mean Catholics until I found this forum, and “met” some here. Maybe I’ve just been lucky, but mostly all the Catholics I have met offline (as I said, with one childhood exception) have been of the “I’d give you the shirt off my back to help you out” types.

One major limitation of this format is the absence of tonal inflection that refines verbal communication. Typed words cannot properly convey the emotion or intent of the words themselves. Face to face human interaction should not be a substitute, it is the preferred. Many posts that are viewed as angry have been simple attempts to point something out. I know, as I have apologized for enough of them. If something offends, try a PM to see what the intent was.

Notice also that the printed word is subject to misinterpretation. Face to face conversation is not. This is exactly how Christ taught, using the oral tradition, so that His words would not be misconstrued. Our words here can easily be.

Christ’s peace.

 

[Brian_Millar]

Wow, fresh out of confession and you were tested and failed… That is what happened, same with the seating thing, the lady who rebuked you even going into confession was tested and failed as well, afterall, what is more important, that meeting or her eternal soul? This isn’t a drive through, this is much more important and it should take priority over all other things. Also, I admit, there are plenty of luke warm congregations, your stance of not being luke warm was to be of great value adding yourself to the ranks in fellowship which obviously there is much needed.

Think about this, with the early church, people literally put their lives on the line to attend services and to have fellowship with other believers, talk about the ultimate test. I can’t imagine how much persecution they suffered, they faced such vile things, the likes of which you and I would never have to deal with, that a few course words from a few individuals are absolutely nothing in comparison. If you truely are wanting to rejoin the Catholic faith, better be prepared to fight for it and stand strong with the Lord, facing any and all opposition that attempts to turn you away from it. No man or entity will prevent me from being part of my church, this is how you should approach it. God needs strong leaders as well as strong believers, especially in this day and age, the church has became too luke warm and he’s wanting our faith to be stronger then ever.

 

[mark_a]

Im in a dilema .After months of attending Protestant service I returned and went to confession .I felt so graet I could’nt help but smile and feel myself praising the lord.

Since this cannot happen at a Protestant church, I don’t understand your dilema.

 

[Singinbeauty]

Since this cannot happen at a Protestant church, I don’t understand your dilema.

You can’t smile and praise the Lord in a protestant church?

 

[peary]

Isolating children of any age from the general worship community is a bad idea. It is unnatural. Of course at some point they will need to understand that they cannot run wild, but our adult tolerance level is also pretty much undone by the restrained environment we have accepted in the temple, it should not be so confining.

Why do children “make noise”? Often it is because of the pews, they are like drums and their hard surfaces reflect sound of their higher pitched voices. People are crammed into ranks and cannot easily make a change that will make it easier on them or the children.

Small chidren will play with almost anything and make noise, but that is perfectly natural. In a proper setting I believe whole families can worship even with the children at that tender age.

I don’t blame the children at all, I blame the whole concept of worshipping in that Protestant invention, the pew.

I bloame the parents for not controlling their kids!!

 

[Al_Masetti]

I was going to respond to and say “Amen” to a few of the posts here … particularly about not relying on an internet forum.

What you really need to do … is to pray a lot.

Visit a Catholic church at some off hour and sit and kneel before the Tabernacle for a while. Just let Jesus work on you … radiating you with His grace.

Look around to find a Catholic church that has Eucharistic adoration … either a weekly or daily Holy Hour … or a Perpetual Eucharistic Adoration chapel.

And just sit there.

Faith is a gift from God.

But we can open ourselves to receive that gift.

 

[mlchance]

Then as I stepped out of the confessional an older woman snarled at me and said I took to long in the confession and I made her late for her appointmaent with her hairdresser .It was then I became angry and the following day returned to the Protestant Church…

Such awful behavior sure is thoughtless. Jesus Christ certainly never had to put with anything like that, especially not from his very own Apostles.

Oh, wait. Yes, he did. Hmm, thinking about that might help put things back into some sort of proper perspective.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[danonwaveland]

I sure hope you didn’t mean me, because I am one of those very conservative Catholics, But please don’t let grumpy people keep you from Our Lord.
I am 18 year old. . . My Our Lady Guide you to her son.

Come on! You’re not 18 years old! You’re much too wise for 18! Oops, sorry, shouldn’t say that – how old was the Little Flower, anyway?

What I’m trying to say in a back-handed poor attempt at humor is God bless you for your witness! He loves us and blesses us all, regardless of age, gender, background or any other circumstance. If we could listen more carefully to each other, we’d learn and love a lot more. May you find “The Fulfillment of All Desire” in your faith walk. The phrase is the title of Ralph Martin’s latest book, a summary of Catholic mystic spirituality – the Little Flower, Therese of Avila, John of the Cross, and all 'dem guys. It’s next on my “to-read” stack.

Thank you again and God bless,
Dan

 

[jmcrae]

You can’t smile and praise the Lord in a protestant church?

You can’t come out of Confession, cleansed and purified of all sin.

 

[qui_est_ce]

I hate to say it, but this forum has been a major stumbling block in my conversion process. I’m aware that many of the posters on here represent the extreme conservative fringe of the Church and that most Catholics (at least the ones I have had “real life” contact with) are not as “hard-core” as some of the folks I have found here. Still, the self-righteous, uncharitable attitudes expressed by some on here have actually made me question whether or not I really want to convert.

Dear Rick, I am sorry your have met with such uncharitable Catholics, and I apologize. My advice is to talk to real Catholics and attend RCIA as soon as possible. Also, go to mass as often as you can. Rude and arrogant people should not keep you from Truth.

The reality of it is that people on the fringes tend to be more vocal, especially in an format like CAF. I have inadvertantly offended people here myself. All I can say is we are all sinners.

At the same time, I have learned a lot on CAF. I have shed some of my anti-Protestant biases, and come to new levels of understaning.

Maybe you should try another thread. I have found the following one very refreshing:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=229644

 

[Writer]

You beat me to it. The devil HATES it when people restore their connection with his Enemy’s Body. And he HATES confession with a blinding, raging passion.

P.S. I hope that lady confessed sniping at the OP about the hairdresser thing. Isn’t it amazing how accurately people expose themselves when they ‘confess’ other people’s “sins?”

This is also apparent in many families attending RCIA… I would agree with the prior posters and remind the OP not to let the behavior of others influence an everlasting decision. If you want the mystical body of Christ to behave better, lead by example.

 

[qui_est_ce]

I sure hope you didn’t mean me, because I am one of those very conservative Catholics, But please don’t let grumpy people keep you from Our Lord.

I am 18 year old, and I have only two Catholic friends. It is hard sometimes because I can’t be really good friends with Catholics who don’t follow the Catholic rules. I mean, they don’t like me because I won’t do allot of the thing they do because the Church teaches against it. I had one protestant friend, but it became difficult to continue our friendship because of the difference of religion and cultures.

Jesus hung out with people who didn’t follow the rules. That’s how he converted them.

If you attend functions at the Catholic church, and if you find a parish and mass that fits your tastes exactly, you will meet other people like you, it may take a while, I have noticed that it takes about a year to become at least casual friends with people, so give it time and please, please don’t let me or anyone else in the entire world get in the way of you being a Catholic and following the only way to heaven.

Parish shopping is strongly discouraged in our diocese, which is head by the very conservative Archbishoop Burke. One must get a letter agreeing to the change by the pastor of the “home” parish. ALL Catholic Churches teach Truth. Having said that, we also have “personal” parishes for the many first generation ethnic groups that have been placed in St. Louis: Viet Namese, Mexican, Polish…The liturgies are in the native tongue. We also have a Tridentine Rite Parish, St. Francis de Sales Oratory, Institute of Christ the King. One may join these parishes without a letter.

 

[Margarite]

Jesus hung out with people who didn’t follow the rules. That’s how he converted them.

I agree, I just decided that I would wait until I had a good Catholic Liberal Arts education before I started discussing faith with her, and that topic was coming up more and more. Also, our different cultural backgrounds, and the fact that she went away to college, while I took a year off, just sort of separated us.
My brothers all have really good friends who are Catholic, but rarely practice. It is sad to hear from my brothers that their friends only attend mass once a month, or once a year. My brothers talk to their friends about it, but it is really the parent’s fault. It is just sad, so we just pray because that is really all we can do.

Parish shopping is strongly discouraged in our diocese, which is head by the very conservative Archbishoop Burke. One must get a letter agreeing to the change by the pastor of the “home” parish. ALL Catholic Churches teach Truth. Having said that, we also have “personal” parishes for the many first generation ethnic groups that have been placed in St. Louis: Viet Namese, Mexican, Polish…The liturgies are in the native tongue. We also have a Tridentine Rite Parish, St. Francis de Sales Oratory, Institute of Christ the King. One may join these parishes without a letter.

Well, that is awesome that you have Archbishop Burke, I am jealous. In Vegas, we have attended two parishes then left after informing the bishop that he needed to check up on the priests. The bishop said he would look into it, but obviously did not because scandal regarding those two priests reached the newspapers a year later regarding the same issues my father had warned the bishop about. So, in Las Vegas, parish shopping is necessary. We also went to a parish that hardly seemed Catholic, it was weird, so we left their quickly. Another parish has music that would make St. Cecilia run, so we left there. Finally, after five years here, we have found a parish that has a hybrid mass and a great old priest. We have to drive half an hour to get there, but it is worth the drive. It is also nice because we are finally meeting people who we can agree with, none of them are my age, but I am going to college this summer at a conservative Catholic college (Wyoming Catholic College) and so I can wait that long

 

[peary]

Not to pick on you Peary… but I really do tire of some catholics saying ‘it is the Devil that done did it’ when it comes to feeling more at home in a protestant church.

You don’t give the demonic much credit when it can keep you away from Christ in the Eucharist. Reality check…

 

[Delta2]

You have the answer in Jesus by Himself :

Luke, 18 : 9-17

1. And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
2. Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
3. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men [are], extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
4. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
5. And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as [his] eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
6. I tell you, this man went down to his house justified [rather] than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
7. And they brought unto him also infants, that he would touch them: but when [his] disciples saw [it], they rebuked them.
8. But Jesus called them [unto him], and said, Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.
9. Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.

 

[thecoach]

Im in a dilema .After months of attending Protestant service I returned and went to confession .I felt so graet I could’nt help but smile and feel myself praising the lord.Then as I stepped out of the confessional an older woman snarled at me and said I took to long in the confession and I made her late for her appointmaent with her hairdresser .It was then I became angry and the following day returned to the Protestant Church ,where I felt the Holy Spirit .It’s the attitude of these old “coots” that profess to be Catholics but have no sympathy for fellow sinners please tell me me what to do. When I leave Sunday Service I feel great when I leave Mass I dont .The people at Mass can’t wait to get out of there me I’m not pleased with such un christian acts .Sorry but you must convince me otherwise …Did not Jesus say " By their fruits you shall know them"…Peace
“So faith, hope, love remain, these three; but the greatest of these is love.”

I agree with you, which is why I no longer attend the Catholic church.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Im in a dilema .After months of attending Protestant service I returned and went to confession .I felt so graet I could’nt help but smile and feel myself praising the lord.Then as I stepped out of the confessional an older woman snarled at me and said I took to long in the confession and I made her late for her appointmaent with her hairdresser .It was then I became angry and the following day returned to the Protestant Church ,where I felt the Holy Spirit .

You seriously got angry with her for being angry with you, and you sign with "So faith, hope, love remain, these three; but the greatest of these is love

It’s the attitude of these old “coots”

nice…they don’t have old “coots” with attitudes in Protestant Churches. The only sinners in the world are those Catholics that think they can be saved by works.

that profess to be Catholics but have no sympathy for fellow sinners please tell me me what to do.

That happened to me too (I had been in there 1/2 hour). The old woman actually opened the Confessional door and walked in. The priest told her to quit being rude, and she could come back at 3:00 if she didn’t want to wait until we were finished!

When I leave Sunday Service I feel great when I leave Mass I dont .The people at Mass can’t wait to get out of there me I’m not pleased with such un christian acts .Sorry but you must convince me otherwise …Did not Jesus say " By their fruits you shall know them"…Peace
“So faith, hope, love remain, these three; but the greatest of these is love.”

Amazing, you would let ONE cranky old woman and good feelings stand in the way of Truth. I’ll bet if you stick around a Catholic church long enough, you’ll find lots of people who stay and love the Lord.

I agree with you, which is why I no longer attend the Catholic church.

Where’s the LOVE???There were no warm fuzzies on the Cross. Truth is not about feelings.

 

[po18guy]

You can’t come out of Confession, cleansed and purified of all sin.

Amen! Post-Baptismal forgiveness of sin is the elephant in the Protestant living room. Virtually every convert to Catholicism mentions this and has come to love the Sacrament of Reconciliation.

Christ’s peace.

 

[MementoMori3283]

I agree with you, which is why I no longer attend the Catholic church.

it is always very sad to hear, as I, myself and me, stayed away from the Catholic Church because of man…never about Jesus, always about me:blush: