I really am trying to Return to Catholicism BUT!

[Huguenot]

You can’t come out of Confession, cleansed and purified of all sin.

The Bible says ( I think it is in one of John’s epistles ) that if we confess our sins, God is faithful and cleanses us from them ( sorry I’m trying to translate into English something I’ve read in French … )

So yes, we are also cleansed of all sins, the difference is that we confess them to God, and Catholics to a priest ( and, I suppose, to God at the same time … )
Is the difference as big as it seems ??? to me it doesn’t seem very big …

 

[MementoMori3283]

The Bible says

And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much. James 5:15-16 KJV

Und das Gebet des Glaubens wird dem Kranken helfen, und der HERR wird ihn aufrichten; und so er hat Sünden getan, werden sie ihm vergeben sein.

Bekenne einer dem andern seine Sünden und betet füreinander, daß ihr gesund werdet. Des Gerechten Gebet vermag viel, wenn es ernstlich ist. Jakobus 5:15-16 Luther Bibel 1545

 

[Huguenot]

And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much. James 5:15-16 KJV

Und das Gebet des Glaubens wird dem Kranken helfen, und der HERR wird ihn aufrichten; und so er hat Sünden getan, werden sie ihm vergeben sein.

Bekenne einer dem andern seine Sünden und betet füreinander, daß ihr gesund werdet. Des Gerechten Gebet vermag viel, wenn es ernstlich ist. Jakobus 5:15-16 Luther Bibel 1545

As you said, “confess your sins TO EACH OTHER” : not ALL OF YOU to ONE MAN ( the priest ) : in fact in personal discussions we do, though not in a formal way ; but when we talked to each other we will often say : this week I got angry again … and so on … it is an informal way of confessing our sins to each other …
You see, moreover, that it is said in a context of prayer for the sick, when the church members pray for somebody’s healing … it doesn’t seem to be a general rule …
As far as praying for each other, we do it very often and we pray for other people too…

 

[MementoMori3283]

As you said, “confess your sins TO EACH OTHER” : not ALL OF YOU to ONE MAN ( the priest ) : in fact in personal discussions we do, though not in a formal way ;

I do not say, Scripture commands.

not ALL OF YOU to ONE MAN ( the priest )

Where is the understanding? Yes, all of us to one man, Jesus Christ, through A priest.

Where is the intellectual honesty in these fora?

Jesus died and ascended to Heaven. His apostles and disciples thought He would come right back. When He didn’t, they received the Holy Spirit and began to instruct people about the Truth. They wrote about Jesus, guided by the Holy Spirit, and established by the authority of Christ, what stands today; the Catholic Church.

 

[Margarite]

Jesus said to Peter and the apostles “Whose sins you shall forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you shall retain are retained.” A Catholic priest has recieved the right and power to do this through the apostolic succession. No protestant Church can claim to follow this directive of Jesus’ That I know of, no protestant religions believe that they must ask for their sins to be forgiven by someone hear on earth, and I don’t think any of them believe that their sins can be not forgiven as Jesus said.

Boy, I love being Catholic, it is just so logical.

 

[mark_a]

You can’t smile and praise the Lord in a protestant church?

You certainly can, but it won’t be due Catholic confession.

 

[po18guy]

So yes, we are also cleansed of all sins, the difference is that we confess them to God, and Catholics to a priest ( and, I suppose, to God at the same time … )
Is the difference as big as it seems ??? to me it doesn’t seem very big …

Matthew 9:2 Some men brought to him a paralytic, lying on a mat. When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, “Take heart, son; your sins are forgiven.”

Mark 2:5 When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, “Son, your sins are forgiven.”

Luke 5:20 When Jesus saw their faith, he said, “Friend, your sins are forgiven.”

Luke 7:48 Then Jesus said to her, “Your sins are forgiven.”

When Christ forgave sins, he told each person that their sins were forgiven - providing them with the moment of grace. Can you imagine what it felt like to be the very first persons on earth to ever hear those words? Up to this time, a physical atonement had to be made, through offerings to the Lord. Christ came, forgave the sins, and at the exact moment of that Heavenly Grace, he spoke it to their ears. What joy!

John 20:23 “If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

Thus, He gave men power over sin, for the first time in history. As a successor of the Apostles, the priest acts in persona Christi, in the person of Christ, and has power to forgive, or retain sin. Man having power over sin was shocking to the Jews of that day, as it remains to the Jews of this day. When you confess to God, you may very well be forgiven. But you cannot know absolutely. Are you forgiven every time you sin? 100 times per week confessing the same sin? Where is the repentance? What if you have no intention of repentance? And, where is the moment of Grace that Christ instituted? Too many questions!

If Christ is perfection and He arranged the forgiveness of sin so that the penitent heard the words of Grace, isn’t that the perfect example for us to follow? Especially since He specifically gave the Apostles power over sin? John Baptist preached a baptism of repentance. Christ calls us to repent. This aspect is completely missing in confession directly to God. What advice and encouragement do you receive confessing directly to God? There is no one sitting face to face with you in persona Christi to provide it.

I prefer to follow the pattern that Christ established, and which the church He founded continues to celebrate. In my mind, to follow any other practice is to invent my own faith.

Christ’s peace be with you.

 

[rob179ny]

I believe that sometimes the development of pride in what we have blinds us in a way that we forget how we should act. On behalf of my catholic family I’m sorry for this, for I have caught myself acting the same way. I think for myself, it was a buildup of hearing that the Catholic church is the whore of babylon, and the pope is the antichrist, and the church contradicts sacred scripture, and so on and son on. We must do as Jesus said and pray for those who persecute us, but to do this we must have humility within us. We must love our enemies because they too bring us closer to salvation. They expose the weaknesses which we should work on to be examples for those thinking about joining the faith. We should also live our faith and evangelize not only for the ears of man but so that they can see us in our love for God. This site has been a great thing for me as a Catholic and it can be great thing for non catholics as a stepping stone to understanding our faith. Thanks

 

[qui_est_ce]

I believe that sometimes the development of pride in what we have blinds us in a way that we forget how we should act. On behalf of my catholic family I’m sorry for this, for I have caught myself acting the same way. I think for myself, it was a buildup of hearing that the Catholic church is the whore of babylon, and the pope is the antichrist, and the church contradicts sacred scripture, and so on and son on. We must do as Jesus said and pray for those who persecute us, but to do this we must have humility within us. We must love our enemies because they too bring us closer to salvation. They expose the weaknesses which we should work on to be examples for those thinking about joining the faith. We should also live our faith and evangelize not only for the ears of man but so that they can see us in our love for God. This site has been a great thing for me as a Catholic and it can be great thing for non catholics as a stepping stone to understanding our faith. Thanks

 

[rob179ny]

Thanks

I guess my heart had something to say. lol

 

[po18guy]

I believe that sometimes the development of pride in what we have blinds us in a way that we forget how we should act. On behalf of my catholic family I’m sorry for this, for I have caught myself acting the same way. I think for myself, it was a buildup of hearing that the Catholic church is the whore of babylon, and the pope is the antichrist, and the church contradicts sacred scripture, and so on and son on. We must do as Jesus said and pray for those who persecute us, but to do this we must have humility within us. We must love our enemies because they too bring us closer to salvation. They expose the weaknesses which we should work on to be examples for those thinking about joining the faith. We should also live our faith and evangelize not only for the ears of man but so that they can see us in our love for God. This site has been a great thing for me as a Catholic and it can be great thing for non catholics as a stepping stone to understanding our faith. Thanks

AMEN II She beat me to it! Fact is, there are many users lurking who read the posts and extract useful information from them. They have heard both sides of the argument and have been confused by the rampant personal interpretation of scripture, and the point to which lack of tradition has brought many believers.

Those who interpret their own scripture have constructed their own faith. They must either consider themselves more learned than an Aquinas or a Ratzinger, or they will simply do anything to avoid following Christ into the Catholic Church!

Christ’s peace.

 

[Huguenot]

I do not say, Scripture commands.

Where is the understanding? Yes, all of us to one man, Jesus Christ, through A priest.

Where is the intellectual honesty in these fora?

Jesus died and ascended to Heaven. His apostles and disciples thought He would come right back. When He didn’t, they received the Holy Spirit and began to instruct people about the Truth. They wrote about Jesus, guided by the Holy Spirit, and established by the authority of Christ, what stands today; the Catholic Church.

It’s a pity you question my honesty, because as I have said for me the difference is not so big since, as you have said, Catholics also confess their sins to God when they confess to a priest … I wasn’t sure, but your answer makes it clearer to me ( to one man Jesus Christ through a priest ) : in a way both Protestants and Catholics confess their sins to God, so I don’t make an issue out of it …
It’s not a problem for me …
When a Catholic goes to confession or a Protestant confesses his sins directly to God, for me it means both are very sad ( I know the word is not strong enough but I can’t think of one in English right now … ) at the idea of offending God, and they don’t want to commit the same sin again …
for me that is the most important …

 

[Huguenot]

Matthew 9:2 Some men brought to him a paralytic, lying on a mat. When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, “Take heart, son; your sins are forgiven.”

Mark 2:5 When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, “Son, your sins are forgiven.”

Luke 5:20 When Jesus saw their faith, he said, “Friend, your sins are forgiven.”

Luke 7:48 Then Jesus said to her, “Your sins are forgiven.”

When Christ forgave sins, he told each person that their sins were forgiven - providing them with the moment of grace. Can you imagine what it felt like to be the very first persons on earth to ever hear those words? Up to this time, a physical atonement had to be made, through offerings to the Lord. Christ came, forgave the sins, and at the exact moment of that Heavenly Grace, he spoke it to their ears. What joy!

John 20:23 “If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

Thus, He gave men power over sin, for the first time in history. As a successor of the Apostles, the priest acts in persona Christi, in the person of Christ, and has power to forgive, or retain sin. Man having power over sin was shocking to the Jews of that day, as it remains to the Jews of this day. When you confess to God, you may very well be forgiven. But you cannot know absolutely. Are you forgiven every time you sin? 100 times per week confessing the same sin? Where is the repentance? What if you have no intention of repentance? And, where is the moment of Grace that Christ instituted? Too many questions!

If Christ is perfection and He arranged the forgiveness of sin so that the penitent heard the words of Grace, isn’t that the perfect example for us to follow? Especially since He specifically gave the Apostles power over sin? John Baptist preached a baptism of repentance. Christ calls us to repent. This aspect is completely missing in confession directly to God. What advice and encouragement do you receive confessing directly to God? There is no one sitting face to face with you in persona Christi to provide it.

I prefer to follow the pattern that Christ established, and which the church He founded continues to celebrate. In my mind, to follow any other practice is to invent my own faith.

Christ’s peace be with you.

Since I don’t want to make a big issue of it ( since it isn’t for me … of course Christ can forgive sins since He is God ), you can just have a look at my preceding answer …
Whether you confess directly to God or through a priest, I agree with you that the intention of repentance is the most important thing ; on French forums some atheists tell the Catholics ( usually they don’t think about attacking Protestants, we form such a small minority that we are “invisible”, although on some atheist sites there is also an “anti-Protestant” section … but apparently they don’t use it … even if maybe they read it … ) that it is easy : you sin and you confess, and you are forgiven, so the fact of knowing it allows you to sin and confess, to sin and confess, endlessly …
well the same could be said about Protestants too ( but as I have said we are not on the atheists’ “radar” ) so I answer that only Catholics who don’t take their religion seriously would do that … and then I add that if they don’t take their religion seriously probably they wouldn’t even bother to go to confession, so … what they ( the atheists ) say must happen extremely rarely …
Discussions take a totally different direction, on THIS forum as soon as we have a different opinion our honesty is questioned…

 

[Radikal]

It was then I became angry and the following day returned to the Protestant Church ,where I felt the Holy Spirit .It’s the attitude of these old “coots” that profess to be Catholics but have no sympathy for fellow sinners please tell me me what to do.

Don’t do it. You’ll be sorry. Believe me. That feeling you get at the Protestant Church, there’s a reason for it. I’ve been there. If you know the Spirit is there then you need to be where the Spirit is and you know this. God is speaking, run to Him while you can! Don’t pass go don’t collect $200.

 

[po18guy]

Discussions take a totally different direction, on THIS forum as soon as we have a different opinion our honesty is questioned…

These fora (forums) are strictly a “sola scriptura” format. There is no human voice, no face to face interaction. From the written word only, differences of interpretation appear. Thus, it may have appeared to someone that you were not truthful, when in fact, you were. But how can you tell from a written word? You have to look at the face to see the lie, or the truth!

This is precisely why Christ taught face to face. He never wrote a single word for us to read. From all of the disagreements on these forums, I can see why!

Christ’s peace.

 

[Huguenot]

These fora (forums) are strictly a “sola scriptura” format. There is no human voice, no face to face interaction. From the written word only, differences of interpretation appear. Thus, it may have appeared to someone that you were not truthful, when in fact, you were. But how can you tell from a written word? You have to look at the face to see the lie, or the truth!

This is precisely why Christ taught face to face. He never wrote a single word for us to read. From all of the disagreements on these forums, I can see why!

Christ’s peace.

It’s not an “impression” : when answering you, somebody says “where is the honesty in these fora”, he DOES question the honesty of the person he is answering, sorry …

That’s why I never stay long on this forum, all the more as I also discuss ( not only about religions … ) on other forums … or fora ( I suppose that is the correct Latin plural form … …but in the plural we also say “spaghetti”, do we have to say “spaghetto” if there is only one ?

 

[MementoMori3283]

It’s not an “impression” : when answering you, somebody says “where is the honesty in these fora”, he DOES question the honesty of the person he is answering, sorry …

That’s why I never stay long on this forum, all the more as I also discuss ( not only about religions … ) on other forums … or fora ( I suppose that is the correct Latin plural form … …but in the plural we also say “spaghetti”, do we have to say “spaghetto” if there is only one ?

intellectual honesty, where is the** intellectual** honesty?

In other words, the fact remains, as most protestants seem to think that the Bible was written as Jesus walked the earth, the Gospels and the epistles, along with Revelation, are a compilation of the Good News and what it means to be a Christian as understood in a Catholic perspective; as it was written by Catholics, and the Canon of Sacred Scripture was approved by Catholics, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

I never questioned your honesty. I question the overall intellectual honesty in these fora.

As to confession, I agree that any man who examines his conscience and recognizes his sin is indeed sorry for the same. Sadness definitley fills the soul over ones failure to obey God. However, does the protestant continue to disobey God and remain in jeopardy, by not availing himself of the grace{James 4:6-7} necessary to sin no more?

 

[peary]

Whether you confess directly to God or through a priest, I agree with you that the intention of repentance is the most important thing ; on French forums some atheists tell the Catholics ( usually they don’t think about attacking Protestants, we form such a small minority that we are “invisible”, although on some atheist sites there is also an “anti-Protestant” section … but apparently they don’t use it … even if maybe they read it … ) that it is easy : you sin and you confess, and you are forgiven, so the fact of knowing it allows you to sin and confess, to sin and confess, endlessly …
well the same could be said about Protestants too ( but as I have said we are not on the atheists’ “radar” ) so I answer that only Catholics who don’t take their religion seriously would do that … and then I add that if they don’t take their religion seriously probably they wouldn’t even bother to go to confession, so … what they ( the atheists ) say must happen extremely rarely …

The major difference is in the psychology of Confession. A practicing Catholic Christian needs to be grounded in the reality of his or her sin to the extent that he or she can consciously verbalize it. This is not the same as asking God for a ‘blanket’ forgiveness of one’s sin(s), but to recognize what the sin is, confess it and be forgiven. The mind has the temptation of wanting to “blanket over” the offense (“God, I’ve sinned, please forgive me”), or a person convincing him/herself that what the offense is isn’t so bad (“Yes, I did this, but I’m basically a good person, and that is what God looks at”, etc.) and thus not necessary to forgive. There is a vast difference in the dynamic here between confessing directly to God with the temptation of not confessing fully, and going through a priest, who is there to lead one in understanding the offense and encouraging a thorough confession.

 

[Al_Masetti]

In a lifetime of going to Confession and in talking with priests, the consensus seems to be that going to Confession is very difficult for people; it is emotionally distressing. Therefore, priests seem to be inclined to treat people with great compassion. Most people seeking absolution are not trying to pull one over. Or get away with something.

So, the anguish of going through the ritual of Confession is almost penance enough.

Priests can tell when someone needs something more … in terms of counseling or whatever, and while the confessional is not the appropriate place for counseling or spiritual direction, usually the priest can make some suggestions for the penitent to get some additional help.

The important thing is just to go to Confession; keep it brief; the priest (unless he’s right out of the seminary) has heard thousands of Confessions already.

And it’s not necessary to have an emotional catharsis for the Sacrament of Confession/Reconciliation to be valid.

The only time I have ever seen a Confessor be at all abrupt was when he was either in great physical pain, but not letting on about it, or some other terrible event was taking place … one priest had just gotten the order to close his school … for example.

These priests are saints, as far as I am concerned. They won’t get credit for their wonderful works … they won’t be seen to perform public miracles … and they won’t allow their internal fears and concerns to be “shared” with others.

Last night, Father Benedict Groeschel was talking about Mother Theresa of Calcutta. One of her novices was chattering on to a visiting bishop about how wonderful Mother Theresa was. Later that night when all were in a Eucharistic Adoration session, the bishop noted that Mother Theresa seemed to be agitated. Later she came over to the bishop and whispered to him:“Where is Jesus NOW?” We also now know that she suffered from spiritual dryness for long periods.

The point is that you don’t have to feel emotionally involved to participate in Catholicism.

You just do it. Just DO IT.

Take your Rosary beads to bed with you and clutch them until you fall asleep. In your mind, visit Jesus at Nazareth … in the carpentry shop … in the pub … at the Sermon on the Mount … at Calvary … and at His Ascension. And the Holy Spirit. And Mary in her apparitions.

No need for rationalization.

Just do it.

 

[po18guy]

It’s not an “impression” : when answering you, somebody says “where is the honesty in these fora”, he DOES question the honesty of the person he is answering, sorry …

That’s why I never stay long on this forum, all the more as I also discuss ( not only about religions … ) on other forums … or fora ( I suppose that is the correct Latin plural form … …but in the plural we also say “spaghetti”, do we have to say “spaghetto” if there is only one ?

Nevertheless, many posts are misinterpreted, because the written word can confuse due to lack of clarity or misperception of the reader. I have certainly not accused you of any such thing!

Christ’s peace be with you.