I really am trying to Return to Catholicism BUT!

[Hesychios]

Dear brother Michael ( I like you biography
One correction of my self… I know that the Church also regards the Orthodox Sacraments as valid.
As for the “claims”, I of course hold them as containing some truth, otherwise I would not be in the problem I am facing… but of course it gets to me when people say:“Be Catholic or be unpleasing to God”. I can’t be excused since I know Church teaching… but sometimes I consider taking a break from the Catholic Church to see if I would really be happier in another Church… It might be that what I long for dont exist… my biggest hope is that I find a good Catholic Church where I can invest my love and gifts…

Unlike many others I know why I believe what I believe… But its not easy when you see the ideal Church and the reality-church as being far away from being the same…

Are you a convert to eastern orthodoxy?

Please see here…

Pax et Bonum,
Michael, schmo-dog and sinner

 

[Rocky]

People talk about feeling—I feel better in this church or that, this person makes me feel loved, etc.

Feelings come and go. First love and tested love do not “feel” the same—just ask anyone who has been married for a long time or has stuck by a child that has put him/herself into crisis.

God loves us all. In His love He gave us the normal means of getting to heaven (the narrow gate). Even though other means may bring us swiftly into the presence of God after death, that is up to God. I’ll keep trying to love Him as He has shown and commanded. And I’ll trust Him more than my feelings.

 

[GraceDK]

I hate to say it, but this forum has been a major stumbling block in my conversion process. I’m aware that many of the posters on here represent the extreme conservative fringe of the Church and that most Catholics (at least the ones I have had “real life” contact with) are not as “hard-core” as some of the folks I have found here. Still, the self-righteous, uncharitable attitudes expressed by some on here have actually made me question whether or not I really want to convert.

" Is it I Lord? " (Matt 26: 22)

Rick … whatever you decide, be in Christ and you are our brother whom we love… Oh the delight when one day all the pettyness is gone and we all rejoice in Heaven with the coolest most huge service and the Lord visible and united intensely to us all… and no doubt we will be wonderfully surprised at who we are standing next to… oh the delight… and I think Jesus will wink at us
I am sorry if I sound a bit silly or drunk… I’ve just been at Mass… Oh YES-HALLELUJA… there is something about that Name of Jesus… and I smiled the whole hour walk home from there … I didn’t even receive the Lord’s Precious Body… but oh He sees to us wherever we are…
AMEN ? Halleluja

 

[distracted]

I could really relate to this. I have been treated very rudely by people in the Church myself and the first and only time i ever thought of leaving the Church was when a deacon… well, how do i put it? He was just inconsiderate, rude, uncaring… So much for “Whatever you do to the least of my brethren…”

But in my rage against the Church in general, I still could see the good things that i just could not and would not ever say goodbye to: The Mass, Confession, The teachings of the Church on sexuality, etc… Oh, the most important thing: The Real Presence…

I also have been thinking of attenidng Protesstant services, but i would do so before or after Mass, never instead of…

I sometimes even wonder if God didn’t allow the “Reformation” for this reason. He too saw the coldness (etc) in the Catholic Church… (???).

Anyway, i don’t know how long you’ve been Catholic… but… well, i have been Catholic all my life, have been in and out of the Church, been in other churches… etc… The fullness of Christ is there… (Just don’t look for it in the people…)…

 

[qui_est_ce]

I could really relate to this. I have been treated very rudely by people in the Church myself and the first and only time i ever thought of leaving the Church was when a deacon… well, how do i put it? He was just inconsiderate, rude, uncaring… So much for “Whatever you do to the least of my brethren…”

But in my rage against the Church in general, I still could see the good things that i just could not and would not ever say goodbye to: The Mass, Confession, The teachings of the Church on sexuality, etc… Oh, the most important thing: The Real Presence…

I also have been thinking of attenidng Protesstant services, but i would do so before or after Mass, never instead of…

I sometimes even wonder if God didn’t allow the “Reformation” for this reason. He too saw the coldness (etc) in the Catholic Church… (???).

Anyway, i don’t know how long you’ve been Catholic… but… well, i have been Catholic all my life, have been in and out of the Church, been in other churches… etc… The fullness of Christ is there… (Just don’t look for it in the people…)…

Please take this with with charity. I know some people in my church that feel as you do. I don’t know why. I am friendly to them. One person I even give rides to all the time. He is a man my age, but he doesn’t drive. All he talks about is how messed up the Church is. He is so bitter. I think his illness is causing him to be so cranky. But God asks us to love the least loveable. For me the least loveable are not the homeless, but the haughty and the rude. I offer it up, and then try to find a positive. Have you tried helping out with RCIA? I have found that working with Catholic wanna-be’s refreshes my faith and gives me a new appreciation as well. They are so welcoming to me!

Our parish is wonderful, welcoming, and very Catholic. We have great priests who give great homillies. We have wonderful Bible studies, choir, retreat week-ends, etc. It wasn’t always like that. But we worked hard on to bring it to this point.

I feel awful that you know you need to stay Catholic but are rudely treated. I’ll keep you and GraceDK in my prayers.

 

[GraceDK]

Please take this with with charity. I know some people in my church that feel as you do. I don’t know why. I am friendly to them. One person I even give rides to all the time. He is a man my age, but he doesn’t drive. All he talks about is how messed up the Church is. He is so bitter. I think his illness is causing him to be so cranky. But God asks us to love the least loveable. For me the least loveable are not the homeless, but the haughty and the rude. I offer it up, and then try to find a positive. Have you tried helping out with RCIA? I have found that working with Catholic wanna-be’s refreshes my faith and gives me a new appreciation as well. They are so welcoming to me!

Our parish is wonderful, welcoming, and very Catholic. We have great priests who give great homillies. We have wonderful Bible studies, choir, retreat week-ends, etc. It wasn’t always like that. But we worked hard on to bring it to this point.

I feel awful that you know you need to stay Catholic but are rudely treated. I’ll keep you and GraceDK in my prayers.

Thank you brother…
For me it has been a roller coaster to be Catholic… the one day all I see is the lack in people and in my self …and the next day I am in extasy in front of the Lord… like tonight when I came in to Church and found Him exposed in the Blessed Sacrament on the Alter… He was really there and He reached out to me… all I could do was bless Him and weep… when I have that experience of the Holy Spirit… then I see the good in my brothers and sisters too… and I love my priests and am in repentance because of my own back slander of people who try their best…
I believe I am not without fault myself… and you are right… doing something about the situation instead of just talking about how things ought to be is certainly a relevant advice… I am hppy to hear about your parish
I have also had a good experiences … one of them was that I lived in Jerusalem for a while and there I met some wonderful priests that really seemed happy and zealous… they always had time for silly Grace who came with all her questions and worries… I miss these older brothers.

God bless you

 

[GraceDK]

Ps… Oh… I only now see that you are not a brother but a dear sister in the Lord

 

[peary]

Anyway, i don’t know how long you’ve been Catholic… but… well, i have been Catholic all my life, have been in and out of the Church, been in other churches… etc… The fullness of Christ is there… (Just don’t look for it in the people…)…

Actually, that’s the place Christ told us to look

 

[Brian_Millar]

…:crying:

This is not unique to the Catholic Church, it’s everywhere. I’ll share with you a bit from my experience.

A long time ago I decided it was time to really dig into the word, fellowship, finding a closer relationship to God and to figure out how to become “born again”. I knew something was lacking in my life in regards to my understanding of it and my relationship with God. I came from a Catholic upbringing, as in the manner, where I went to church every sunday, attended CCD, and in general, was following route, just like everybody else. Yet I wanted more, much more, I was not settled for this luke warm approach of which the common person today prefers. I did two things that are frowned upon by the Catholic church. 1st, I started reading my own bible, I read it cover to cover for the first time and I was amazed at it’s story, the richness of what was taught was profound and I still to this day can’t believe the number of people that have never done it, at first I felt guilty in doing so, I was told that I cannot interpret what was taught in it, that I should only listen to the priest with his interpretations, essentially I was too stupid to open that book, of which is a lie. 2nd, I attended services with protestants, bible study to boot. For a while, I would go to a new church and new denomination every weekend, some were remarkably similar to the Catholic church as in they had their ceremonies, be it not nearly as elaborate, others were much more informal, they all felt lacking in some areas, but the notable difference is, people were not reciting what was drilled into them pretty much from birth.

Many of these churches I visited left me with a cold feeling, some of these agendas were quite transparent, without naming denominations, we had the Church that was only interested in growing and attaining new members, rich members. We had the church of the all mighty benchwarmers that were doing their duty to attend service for salvation, we had the church of minorities, where being pretty much if not, the only white person attending, it was clear I was not welcomed and at best patronized for being there, then the endless churches of cliques, if you are in, then you are like flin, if you are an outsider, don’t expect the time of day.

During this time I went back to the last church my family was part of, and during mass, I remember shaking someones hand, someone that knew me from high school, we said the usual peace be with you stint, sorry guys, it’s just a stint in my mind, nobody is very sincere with it at all. And at the end of the service, was again given the cold shoulder by all, and I place that place into the context of the church of the all mighty benchwarmers.

I ended up finding a baptist church and even though it was still a clique based operation, I enjoyed the long sermons and the extensive bible studies, what stood out most was one individual that took the time out to ask me to come back, he also headed the bible study and there were a couple of people that were my friends already attending there, so I was not such an outsider. I learned much from him, and even though there were elements I was not in agreement with, with their own dogma, it was the closest thing I found in regards to fellowship that I was seeking, so I stuck around them for the duration of that time period.

• have to break this up into two posts

 

[Brian_Millar]

When I moved, I tried that gambit again, yet was not lucky enough to find a church that fit the bill, I was disturbed by one service where the minister was obviouly effeminant, likely he was Gay, so I opted out of going to service all together, yet kept reading the word regardless, I even had dialog with a few church leaders that I happen to bump into, for some brief fellowship.

After a dry spell, where I opted not to seek out fellowship, where I simply gave up upon trying, regardless of that, I always kept my relationship with the Holy Spirit in tact, well, better worded, God kept revealing himself to me through the Holy Spirit. I ended up facing the hardest struggle in my life, I faced the evil one head on and he made it clear of his intentions.

I am one that does not back down, not to any body or anything, and during last year, I knew what Job had to face, I knew the turmoil and struggle he went through, not nearly to his level, but enough to know, and enough to understand that we must maintain our faith, in God and in the church regardless of circumstance, regardless of if we are not pleased with the other members, with luke warm leadership, with the elements that we feel lacked. I opted that it was mandatory to renew my faith in fellowship and to share with others in spite of themselves yet again, regardless of denomination, as long as they believed in Christ, as long as they followed the cannon, and as long as they at least attempted to live in a Godly way, this was it, and I am here to stay.

I found out that showing my Catholic background was rejected by them, they reached the point of saying and working against the church, the tolerance to anything Catholic was nil, and instead of giving into their demands, I decided it was time for me to return to the Catholic church, weather they wanted me or not, weather it was luke warm or not, I would not wander away, I would not be held back and I am here to stay forever.

Funny how things work out, what I had to face instead of it distracting me away from the church, it forced me back into it, it’s so called plans have been foiled and I now am working along getting my relatives back into the pews and back to following what we were all raised to believe in, the catholic church. I still haven’t found one particular parish to attend on a regular basis, but the one I decide to stay wtih, I hope I run into someone like you so we can share in true fellowship and show the rest our fire and zeal for the Lord. You are a catalyst, the rest of the congregation are the resin, when you manage to find a way to combine forces, look out, there will be radical change for the good. It is necessary to simply be there as an example, to lead by showing compassion, by welcoming newcomers, to help those in need and if possible, to aid the church itself in any way they need it. You are the cure for the sickness you speak of, it’s one thing to complain about it, it’s quite another to do something about it.

 

[po18guy]

Brian, a most inspiring story! As you look back on the past few years, you see the brilliance of the path that the Lord placed you on. You were made a spiritual prodigal son. Reading through this thread, I can see the influence of our consumer culture on our faith. As to the parish you choose, the Lord has mysteriously placed you in the parish that serves your residence. We all find something to disagree with, no matter where we go or what we do. If your local parish does not please you, become involved and help to improve it yourself! Since the Lord had His hand on the events that lead you to the house you are in, you live in that parish for a specific reason. Though we may not like it, this is how the Lord works.

Form a relationship with the priest. Let him know that he is both loved and indispensable to the faith. Is he too one way or the other? Pray that he is holy and serves God alone. Priests struggle greatly with their faith at times. If we are attacked by the evil one every time we feel close to the Lord, how much more is the priest attacked, since his hands both consecrate Jesus Christ in the Blessed Sacrament as well as forgive sins, cheating Satan of souls? Is there Adoration? I cannot stress enough going and spending time with our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament. I am leaving to be in His Presence in just a bit.

Decide to love Jesus so much that nothing else in the parish even matters, because on your last day, nothing else will. The biggest problem in my parish is me. If I go t work on that, things will improve.

I love Bishop Sheen, and he had a great ‘church shopping’ expression: “Once you find the perfect church, do not join it. YOU will ruin it!”

Christ’s peace.

 

[Brian_Millar]

Hi po18guy,

Thank you for the advice, it is good, I’ll follow it. You are right, if the parish is not perfect, I’ll work with what I have and do my best to help whom ever needs it, especially the priest. I know what you mean about how they are attacked more often due to the nature of their calling and the fact they save souls and sheperd the flock, we should all stand by them with the devotional support.

 

[GraceDK]

Brian. :tiphat:
I read your testimony with bated breath… So happy when you finally found your way back to the Catholic Church in spite of its sicknesses. Some people say that the Church must follow the Lord in crucifixion and that is what we are seeing: the suffering and death of the Church but the Holy Spirit cant die and the Church will resurrect in splendour.
I am sorry about your experience of not being welcome with your own Bible.
This has not been my experience. I came into a part of Catholic spirituality that highly encourages that the individual gets personally familiar with the Word… And although I hardly ever see anyone else with their Bible where I am now, I have only ever met good responses. I have been at places where I saw other young Catholics with their Bibles in front of them…
As for me the Bible is the nr. 1 source of faith and I think it will always be. Its my companion where ever I go.
I have found that the times where I was full inside I also felt much more fullness outside of me. I was saved into life with Christ by the testimony of a catholic-orthodox mystic and I fell head over heals in love with Jesus then… That inner relationship with Christ when its LIVING is so important. In times of weakness or falling or when I see lack… then the sickness of the Church becomes a threat to my peace. Mostly temptation comes when I don’t see the Church resembling the church I am told of in Acts… Love and zeal, power and evangelisation, preaching and miracles… All of them we need. I crumble my toes when I hear people say that we have all we need because we have the Eucharist. Its like they forget that 99 percent of us are humans of flesh and passions …
I believe one of the great ailments is the passivity of the laity here…Where the ministries and gifts are encouraged among the laity faith and fellowship are much more thriving. But when I think of it I realise I am up against 1000 years of church organisation where the priest have become the sole actor on behalf of Christ and the people. I do not attack the Mass…but the church life we read of in the epistles and Acts have many more elements than readings, liturgy and Eucharist. You are right… we really are bench warmers.
I am so happy that you are in the Church now… we need one another, Brian I have great stories too of catholic parishes that are thriving and growing and of priests that really do a great job. One of my best priest friends told me the first time I met him: “this is your home now Grace… do you need a spiritual director?” Another one is … oh no,don’t even get me started… it sometimes seems like this particular priest carries a whole city on his shoulders and if it was not for his baptism in the Holy Spirit he would simply break down. He does the work of 20 men in the vineyard J

You say: I would not be held back and I am here to stay forever. Halleluja Amen!
And thank you for the compliment dear brother… it would be a delight to work with you if we ran into each other. It really only takes a few people to get a great ministry going that supports and edifies both priest and laity in a congregation. One time I lived 5 month some where abroad… I found 4 other young people whose hearts were the same as mine. They were beautiful on-fire Catholics and we made a group of worship, Bible, little speeches and prayer… It was awesome… We never got really big but we were there every week and even Jewish and Evangelical friends joined up with us to take part in our praise or just to see and listen :dancing:
This is too long, I know (and I might soon get discovered by someone that knows me so I better lay-low).
Ps … sorry about spelling mistakes… I am not American.
Pps…It might delight you to hear that among the Pentecostals and Messianics whose Churches I have attended for longer periods, I have never met any coldness towards my Catholicism… I have been among them as a guest, certainly, and whereas I have explained elements of catholic faith to them I have never “taught” them to leave their way. They have been delighted to have me… and may I say, even honoured. My Pentecostal friends call me “one of their own”. But I will make it clear… where I live we don’t have the hatred and mockery between the churches that I hear of in America… even though there is still some suspicion… the most suspicion is found among conservative Lutherans… But I also know some of those beloved brethren who long for unity with us…
God bless you Brian
Grace <><

 

[Huguenot]

Huguenot;3632022:

If you read your Bible, then you will realize the fallacy of your theology. Nothing good in humankind? If God didn’t think there was anything good in humankind, He wouldn’t have sent Jesus to redeem us. Sometimes one’s theology is impacted by personal disposition.

Augustine was talking about the predestination of the elect through grace into the Catholic Church, which is Christ’s Mystical Body.

What convinced me there is nothing good in man is precisely reading the Bible …
God wants to save us not because we are good, but because … He IS love …
When you see some descriptions of man’s heart, you can’t believe ( well I can’t believe there is any thing good in man ), for example the beginning of Psalm 14 ( verses 1-3 ), and the same passage is also found at the beginning of Psalm 53 ) ; you also have Titus 3 : 3 - 5 :
“For we also once were foolish ourselves, disobedient, deceived, enslaved to various lusts and pleasures, spending our life in malice and envy, HATEFUL , hating one another. But when the KINDNESS OF GOD our Savior and HIS LOVE FOR MANKIND appeared, He saved us…”

the French for “hateful” is this passage is even stronger, it means “deserving to be hated” ( by God ) …
We deserve to be hated by God because of our sins, and He sent and sacrificed His Son because He is full of mercy and love … He IS love …that is why He sent Jesus to redeem us … not because we somehow deserve it, we don’t …
I had read these passages in the Bible ( and others … ) even before knowing what Calvin taught, I was not brought up a Protestant …
For us, the discrepancy between what we deserve ( God would be totally just if He hated us ) and what God offers us ( His love ) shows how, precisely, how great His love is …It makes me even more grateful for it …

 

[MementoMori3283]

God wants to save us not because we are good, but because … He IS love …

we are made in the image and likeness of God

the French for “hateful” is this passage is even stronger, it means “deserving to be hated” ( by God ) …
We deserve to be hated by God because of our sins,

but we are not hated by God because God is love, his mercy is endless

and He sent and sacrificed His Son because He is full of mercy and love … He IS love …that is why He sent Jesus to redeem us … not because we somehow deserve it, we don’t …

not at all, but Jesus came and provided for us an example of how to live our life for God - to be Holy as our heavenly Father is Holy. Would Jesus give us a task we could not complete?

( God would be totally just if He hated us )

but he doesn’t, because

God offers us ( His love ) …how great His love is

…It makes me even more grateful for it …

Catholics as well

There is good in man because we are made in the image and likeness of God.

In the beginning…

 

[distracted]

the least loveable are not the homeless, but the haughty and the rude.

So True…

I offer it up, and then try to find a positive.

I love this aspect of being Catholic. Before i knew about this offering things up thing , when i had sufferings, i didn’t really know what to do with them…

Have you tried helping out with RCIA?

I’ve considered it but felt God wanted to focus efforts elsewhere… but that was then, this is now… I will consider it…

I have found that working with Catholic wanna-be’s refreshes my faith

Yes, it is wonderfult to be around those who appreciate the Faith…

I feel awful that you know you need to stay Catholic but are rudely treated. I’ll keep you and GraceDK in my prayers.

Thank you so much. You seem like a caring person… something that isn’t always too common on these forums, unfortunately… but again, we need to pray for those rude people… .

 

[danonwaveland]

Dear Grace, Brian, Distracted, and everyone else who has posted:

Thank you for you thoughts. I often find “punch-in, punch-out” Catholics who can’t wait for that 50 minutes to be up on Sunday so that they can get back to “real life.” I tell myself that maybe they have an elderly parent who is being watched by a neighbor while they’re at Mass and, so, they have to hustle out. Perhaps they’re brusque because they’ve got a sick child at home who is occupying their thoughts and they’re having a hard time putting that child’s illness in God’s hands. Or maybe they really are just glad to finish the Mass and move on; they’re the ones who need our prayers – and example – the most.

Grace mentioned the pentecostals and Baptism in the Holy Spirit. I remember visiting my Dad’s church many years ago, shortly after completing a “Life in the Spirit” seminar as part of the Catholic Charismatic Renewal. The homily was given by the pastor, whom I had known for several years, but had not seen in a while. He had always given reasonably good homilies, the best among the three priests in the parish, although nothing I’d go out of my way to hear. Well, at this Mass, I was very touched by his homily. I don’t remember the topic, but I do remember asking myself, “When did he get these tremendous insights? When did he develop such a deep relationship with the Lord?” Then, I realized that it was not he who changed, but me, by the grace of the Holy Spirit. It’s all there – the fullness of truth in the Church. I had not “heard” it before, or at least not as well as now.

Often, the messengers in our Church are not very good at conveying the message, whether through poor homilies, nonchalant attitudes, or seeming lack of interest in the other people in the pews. Our pastor has instituted a practice in which we greet those closest to us about five minutes before Mass begins. After a few months, there are a few more smiles and “hellos” being exchanged outside of church, as well. Hopefully, it is translating into friendships, sharing, or at least less grumbling among those waiting to get out of the parking lot after Mass.

In any case, I am rambling. Thank you, all, and God bless you on your journeys!
Dan

 

[po18guy]

Grace mentioned the pentecostals and Baptism in the Holy Spirit. I remember visiting my Dad’s church many years ago, shortly after completing a “Life in the Spirit” seminar as part of the Catholic Charismatic Renewal.
Dan

Dan, this same seminar, and its baptism in the Holy Spirit (not a Sacrament, but hands-on prayer for the release of the gifts of the Holy Spirit that we received at Confirmation), completely changed my faith life. I went from secret, lukewarm Catholic to alive in my faith. I “discovered” Adoration. My belief in the Eucharist increased exponentially. Prayer took on an entire new dimension. Scripture now speaks more clearly. I received my mission. I now love sharing my faith, learning my faith and practicing my faith. Best of all, I have fallen crazy in love with Christ! I cannot recommend this highly enough.

It sounded hokey to me. I didn’t want to go. DW “suggested” it would be good for me. I went and the Holy Spirit clearly had plans for me, as He does for each of you. And, none of this was due to me. It’s the Holy Spirit! Praise God! Amen! Alleluia!

 

[guanophore]

I agree with you, which is why I no longer attend the Catholic church.

I am sad to hear this. The same thing happened to me. I allowed my needs and wants, and the shortcomings of others to interfere with my relationship with HIm.

 

[guanophore]

The Bible says ( I think it is in one of John’s epistles ) that if we confess our sins, God is faithful and cleanses us from them ( sorry I’m trying to translate into English something I’ve read in French … )

So yes, we are also cleansed of all sins, the difference is that we confess them to God, and Catholics to a priest ( and, I suppose, to God at the same time … )
Is the difference as big as it seems ??? to me it doesn’t seem very big …

Yes, Huguenot, again you arrive at Catholicism!

The priest acts in the person of Christ. Only God can forgive sins, but he has grafted men into this ministry of reconciliation to HImself. I sometimes imagine how much more difficult it would be to confess kneeling before Jesus. :bigyikes: