I saw someone steal the eucharist.

[MarkThompson]

You weren’t born in England by any chance were you? The English fetish for understatement is so pronounced that I once heard an Englishman in a late 1940s film describe World War Two as “the recent unpleasantness”.

A relatively common dry expression which dates, at minimum, to the U.S. Civil War.

 

[Newbie2]

If blatant sacrilege against the Blessed Sacrament has become so rampantly common in a parish that its pastor feels powerless to do anything to prevent or combat it, “disappointing” is a far too mild word to describe the situation.

You weren’t born in England by any chance were you? The English fetish for understatement is so pronounced that I once heard an Englishman in a late 1940s film describe World War Two as “the recent unpleasantness”.

No, I’m a Yank. But I do have a tendency to understate things. Guess I share that and a fondness for good ale with my kin across the pond.

 

[quotidianum]

I’m sure there is a better way to put this; you don’t think purposeful embarassment is charitable, do you?

Yes, by all means, follow her home and confront her there. If she resists, force your way into the house and search it top to bottom.

Yes, heavy on the sarcasm. When did we become the host police? It was reported to the priest and deacon. Let them handle it in their own way.

I was thinking the same thing…

Newbie2: You say “the host police”? Are you not aware that the consecrated Bread is literally the Body, Soul, and Divinity of our Lord, Jesus Christ? He didn’t see anyone take a mere host, he saw someone steal Our Lord under the sacramental viels! You should not be “sarcastic” over such grave matters.

I’m glad I don’t have to worry about this, because at my parish, we recieve the Holy Eucharist on our tongues from the priest alone, while kneeling. As for what to do about it, I have no doubt that either one of my priest would have tackled the women if they would have seen such a thing! This is Our Lord we are talking about here!

To the altar server: you did the right thing. I too would recommend you write your Bishop so that you Bishop will instruct your priest on the proper way to handle this. If whole episode is yet another reason would shouldn’t even receive on the hand in the first place…it is why we say “Domine, non sum dignus, ut intres sub tectum meum: sed tantum dic verbo, et sanabitur anima mea”. We truly are not worthly, but are given this grace only by the mercy of God.

 

[quotidianum]

I haven’t been on for a while, and now so many people posted I can’t reply to all of you so I will just answer a few of the questions!

“What was the priest or deacon sopose to do, they found out after mass was over?”

I told the deacon as soon as I saw it, I ran up to him when he was walking to get something from the little table that has the water and wine cruets on it. He just said “thanks” and walked away.

I was hoping the priest or deacon would at least say something after communion into the microphone so that everyone would know that you need to consume the host after you receive it. I understand they couldn’t hunt her down and yell at her or anything like that. I really hope she brought it home to a sick family member.

One person said that I should start going to the Tridentine mass if I don’t like what I see going on:

I am a altar boy at the Tridentine mass every sunday, This was just a mass for confirmation preparation at the church my family attends. I don’t usually go to the church this took place in because it stresses me out (i’m not going to get into the reasons why because it will go to far off topic)

Also everyone who is giving me advice, Thank you!

Keep your ears open, young man…you have a good heart, and you love our Lord. You sound like someone God might call to the FSSP or the ICRSS one day!

 

[PbloPicasso]

Unfortunately, there isn’t much we can do short of attacking someone. I’ve heard a story from a priest visiting the Vatican and a man that chased a woman down that said “thanks”, like it was a token, and told her to eat it or give it back.

2 weeks ago I found out that our pastor saw a couple living in sin take it and he was shocked. I think I know who it was, but just a suspicion and not my business if I’m not directly involved.

I think we just have to pray for those individuals that think they are above the Church authority and God.

Good catch. Good job.

 

[Newbie2]

Newbie2: You say “the host police”? Are you not aware that the consecrated Bread is literally the Body, Soul, and Divinity of our Lord, Jesus Christ? He didn’t see anyone take a mere host, he saw someone steal Our Lord under the sacramental viels! You should not be “sarcastic” over such grave matters.

I’m glad I don’t have to worry about this, because at my parish, we recieve the Holy Eucharist on our tongues from the priest alone, while kneeling. As for what to do about it, I have no doubt that either one of my priest would have tackled the women if they would have seen such a thing! This is Our Lord we are talking about here!

.

Oh, yes, I’m quite aware. And I’m not being sarcastic in the least.

I use the term “host police” as a substitute for a less charitable term. What I’m referring to is a hyper- or uber-vigilance, such as creating a spectacle if your priest would have lept off the sanctuary and “tackled” a woman walking off with the host.

I’m pretty certain our Lord would not advocate the use of violence i.e. physical battery to “protect” the Sacrament. But I’m sure you’re exaggerating in order to make a point.

And it’s a good point, in that proper vigilance should be maintained in order to prohibit the desecration of the consecrated host.

Oh, and by the way, reception on the tongue or by a priest alone (or both) is no guarantee that someone won’t walk away and take the host out of their mouth. Such an occurance has been discussed on the CAF many times before.

 

[Petergee]

Oh, yes, I’m quite aware. And I’m not being sarcastic in the least.

I use the term “host police” as a substitute for a less charitable term. What I’m referring to is a hyper- or uber-vigilance, such as creating a spectacle if your priest would have lept off the sanctuary and “tackled” a woman walking off with the host.

I’m pretty certain our Lord would not advocate the use of violence i.e. physical battery to “protect” the Sacrament. But I’m sure you’re exaggerating in order to make a point.

I’m pretty certain our Lord** would** advocate the use of violence if necessary to protect the Sacrament. Neither our Lord nor the Catholic Church advocate absolute pacifism.
I’m pretty disgusted with your sarcastic use of “host police” and your inverted commas around “protect”, and I’m not exaggerating at all.

If I saw someone walking away with the Host I would do **whatever it takes **to prevent or avert the desecration of the Eucharist. Up to and including, (God grant me the courage!) a fight to the death in the extremely unlikely event that this should prove necessary if all other attempts at persuasion, threats or coercion had failed.

In the history of the Church there have been several people, both lay and clerical, who have given their lives in attempts to prevent the Blessed Sacrament being desecrated. The lay people didn’t ask their priest’s permission first. The Church calls them martyrs for the Faith.

 

[Newbie2]

Can’t help it if you don’t like my terms; it’s not my intent to sicken you with them.

Are you saying you would kill someone over them taking a host from the communion line? Or are you exaggerating to make a point? I can’t tell.

 

[Acolythus_sum]

To kill someone to prevent desecration of the Most Blessed Sacrament–the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ? …it’d be a close call. I take “fight to the death” as an exaggeration, but have you read of the priest (a couple months ago) who slapped a boy who threw the Host to the ground?

 

[Aramis]

I have seen ( twice!) someone take the communion in their hand and then put it in their pocket. I saw a girl take it in her hand, keep it in her hand and then put it in her purse when she got back to the pew. Both were college student aged. We live in a college town. This concerns me a lot! I did tell the priest who just asked me to describe the person.

I’ve seen someone pop the host out of their mouth back at the pew. The padre noticed… and took it up with her. Immediately, but quietly.

 

[Petergee]

Can’t help it if you don’t like my terms; it’s not my intent to sicken you with them.

It’s not your terms that sicken me, but your casual attitude to the Blessed Sacrament. This is GOD we’re talking about here.

Are you saying you would kill someone over them taking a host from the communion line? Or are you exaggerating to make a point? I can’t tell.

Sheesh, I already told you “I’m not exaggerating” and you still doubt me.

Let me ask you, if someone tried to despoil your wife/mother/daughter/sister/yourself, heck even if someone tried to vandalise/steal some very expensive material thing belonging to you, would you, if necessary, fight and even kill the assailant if necessary to stop him, or die in the attempt to stop him?

We have Someone infinitely more valuable than any property, even far more valuable than a mere human being, here. Don’t you have any respect or appreciation of that fact?

 

[Reuben_J]

Oh, now I can see what causes the emotion there.

I think devoted Catholics revere the host and seriously against its desecration for whatever purpose.

On the other hand there is a limit in us being able in policing its distribution and to control how others take them. Ultimately this is between God and the culprit and in some cases God does not need defending. Of course this does not say we should be indifferent nor do not anything to stop it from being abused. But making a scene, trying to be a hero or wrestling people down would not do any good either for the church.

I suppose discretion is the word and other than that there is nothing that we can do about it. What we can do however is to prevent it from happening. In the other thread I have given examples on how these are done and they are quite effective. The parish is certainly not doing enough if abuse of the host should happen regularly there. If not, we are only talking hypothetically. Do we really have an experience of actually carrying out what we want to do or do any of us have actually seen people abuse the host and what we had done in our personal capacity about it? The answer to this is perhaps more relevant to this thread.

 

[Newbie2]

It’s not your terms that sicken me, but your casual attitude to the Blessed Sacrament. This is GOD we’re talking about here.

Where do you get “casual” in my posts? Just because I fall short of giving someone a beat-down to get the host back?
Sheesh, I already told you “I’m not exaggerating” and you still doubt me.

No, I don’t doubt you. I just want to be clear before I criticize your position.
Let me ask you, if someone tried to despoil your wife/mother/daughter/sister/yourself, heck even if someone tried to vandalise/steal some very expensive material thing belonging to you, would you, if necessary, fight and even kill the assailant if necessary to stop him, or die in the attempt to stop him?

In the case of someone being assaulted, yes, I would defend them.

In the case of something I owned and considered valuable, absolutely not. There is nothing in this life that I own that is worth taking the life of another over.

We have Someone infinitely more valuable than any property, even far more valuable than a mere human being, here. Don’t you have any respect or appreciation of that fact?

Yes, I do, but I’m not willing to kill someone over stealing a host, even accidentally, and I’d wager that you’d get few committed faithful or clergy that would support such a position.

Confront someone, certainly. Tussle with them during mass and create a scene? Doubtful. Give them a beatdown and actually take their life? Absolutely not.

You take the postion that the Lord is powerless and needs our defense. Yes, certainly we should treat the sacrament and the accidents with honor, reverence and vigilance. But you have no justification for the suggestion that we may kill someone to protect the sanctity of the sacrament.

I know you’re not claiming that the Church supports your position. However, I’d like you to provide just one reference that even remotely suggests justification for defending the consecrated host in such a manner…and I’m not talking about being a martyr, I’m talking about justification for taking the life of another to defend the host.

I’m curious, does anyone else think that killing someone over a host is OK? We as Catholics are against even taking lives through capital punishment (with certain exceptions), but it’s OK to kill someone over stealing a host?

 

[Newbie2]

To kill someone to prevent desecration of the Most Blessed Sacrament–the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ? …it’d be a close call. I take “fight to the death” as an exaggeration, but have you read of the priest (a couple months ago) who slapped a boy who threw the Host to the ground?

Close call?

Where on earth do you find justification for taking someone else’s life in such a manner?

 

[paperwight66]

Close call?

Where on earth do you find justification for taking someone else’s life in such a manner?

There is no justification whatsoever. Besides, for all we know, Our Lord might withdraw himself from the Sacrament in situations of danger. I’m thinking especially of when a church is burnt to the ground. He is able to come, I don’t see why we should restrict His power and say He cannot go again if He willed it so.

Even if this isn’t so, there is a great deal of exaggeration in the use of the words desecration and abuse. Spitting, urinating, stamping on, and even worse - those appalling actions would be desecration or abuse. But a non-Catholic receiving out of ignorance, or a teenager saving the Host to show their mates?

 

[Acolythus_sum]

There is no justification whatsoever. Besides, for all we know, Our Lord might withdraw himself from the Sacrament in situations of danger. I’m thinking especially of when a church is burnt to the ground. He is able to come, I don’t see why we should restrict His power and say He cannot go again if He willed it so.

Even if this isn’t so, there is a great deal of exaggeration in the use of the words desecration and abuse. Spitting, urinating, stamping on, and even worse - those appalling actions would be desecration or abuse. But a non-Catholic receiving out of ignorance, or a teenager saving the Host to show their mates?

“Hey, look at me! I’m carrying around the Body of our Lord Jesus Christ in defiance of the wishes of Holy Mother Church!..but I’m showing it to you guys, so it’s alright.”
That is not desecration or abuse?!?

 

[Newbie2]

Well, of course that is, I don’t think anyone would argue that point. I think PW66 had more in mind a curious and uninformed teenaged mind; one that didn’t understand true presence…methinks is more ignorance than willfull abuse.

In any case, nobody is arguing against reasonable vigilance. I would still maintain that a priest diving off the sanctuary and tackling someone or someone else giving them a beatdown, even killing them to get the host back as someone has suggested clearly crosses the line. Violence is not acceptable.

It would be a different matter for one to give up *his or her own *life in trying to address an abuse, for example if someone attempted to steal a tabernacle at gunpoint. That is being a martyr, perhaps. But to do violence or even kill another person to protect the sacrament…wow…no justification for that.

 

[Reuben_J]

Well, let put it this way. If a person want to abuse the host, he can always do it and there is no way we can do about it. Just like a burglar who burgles our house – if he really wants to do it he will always find a way to do it and he will do it. We can only make it difficult for him.

About the host – there is no guarantee too that it will not be abused even for those who receive it with tongues. They could just simply go back to the pew, spit it out and use it for other dubious purpose.

We’ve got to have a sense of propriety on this and look at it from the prospect of God.
Why was it given by God in the first place?
What is the Church for?
What do we expect people to find in the Church?
Do we want the church to be a place where the devout fight for their right or shouting match or senseless brawling? We have to think about the whole congregation and to also to keep the order.
What harm it really does should the host be abused?
Can we completely control the way it is taken by others?

We are quite limited in what we can do other than to politely tell the culprit that what he does is wrong. It also depends on the circumstance and the situation too. Thus wisdom is called for in dealing with this.

The other aspect is we truly do not have that much time and space to scrutinize what others are doing during the Holy Communion. It is a solemn occasion and most of us are concentrating on what we do ourselves – prayers, reverence and meditation. Some of us do not even have the time to sing along the Communion songs. So this is the practical aspect during the Holy Communion.

 

[JReducation]

It’s not your terms that sicken me, but your casual attitude to the Blessed Sacrament. This is GOD we’re talking about here.

Sheesh, I already told you “I’m not exaggerating” and you still doubt me.

Let me ask you, if someone tried to despoil your wife/mother/daughter/sister/yourself, heck even if someone tried to vandalise/steal some very expensive material thing belonging to you, would you, if necessary, fight and even kill the assailant if necessary to stop him, or die in the attempt to stop him?

We have Someone infinitely more valuable than any property, even far more valuable than a mere human being, here. Don’t you have any respect or appreciation of that fact?

This position should not be taken as a Catholic position. It is completely contrary to anything that the Catholic Church would say or condone. This is the poster’s position, not a Catholic position.

While the Church believes and defends the true presence of Christ in the Eucharist, the Church also understands that one can never condone an evil to achieve a good. The taking of a life, to correct an evil as been addressed by the Church many times. There are very few situations in which such an action is morally justifiable. This is not one of those, since the taking of the Sacred Host does not place an innocent person in physical danger.

While the desecration of the sacred is an unthinkable horror to any person of faith, it is also rational to understand that nothing that man does can cause physical injury to God. As to the spiritual injury done to the soul of the person who commits such a heinous act, may God have mercy on that person.

But its contrary to the Catholic Church’s teaching on the sacredness of life to even suggest that this can or should be codoned. The Church has never responded in this manner in any of the hundreds of times where the Most Holy Eucharist has been defiled. This in no way diminishes the love and faith of the Church. The Church has alwasy responded with indignation, acts of reparation to almighty God for the sacrilege and acts of penance for the culpable party, but NEVER with physical violence.

Again, this is the poster’s position and he can say so, but it must be understood that the Catholic Church has never espoused such a position nor would she ever condone it. If a person every acted in such a manner, he or she would be culpable of grave sin. You cannot take a life, unless your safety or that of a helpless person is threatened and you have no other recourse.

I will report this breach of Catholic teaching to the moderator. This is an unjustifiable defense of violence.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[joandarc2008]

I think you guys are rather looking at this from a rather American-centric or Euro-centric point of view. Why don’t put yourself in one of those Iraqi Churches that are being taken hostage by Islamic terrorists and ask yourself what you will do to protect the Holy Body and Precious Blood?