I think I am bi

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Hi,

I am a young man in a similar situation. And don’t worry, God didn’t send this without reason.

Dealing with this can be an adventure of grace. A struggle, yes, but a heroic one, and one that really will help you grow spiritually and psychologically if you dedicate yourself to dealing with it. For me it has been a journey that has really helped me learn about myself, about men, about women, about humanity in general. And really has helped me come to terms with more than just sexuality.

In my experience, I think some people who say they are straight…are really bi. And I think many people who say they are bi…are really pretty much exclusively homosexual. Because if one really is bi…well, then you can just sort of ignore “that half” of it, and can lead a straight life. Whereas homosexuals not yet willing to fully admit that, but wanting to discuss their feelings, often times will first self-label as “bi” to avoid the stigma of total homosexuality (bisexuality, I’ve found, is a lot more accepted) and to leave open some possibility (either in their own minds, or in the minds of the people they are talking to) that they can lead a normal life without directly confronting the homosexuality (ie, they could just ignore the homosexual feelings and act on the heterosexual ones).

I’m not saying that’s true in your case. You may be genuinely bi, and like I said…then things are somewhat easier for you. Then you can just act on the heterosexual feelings and ignore the homosexual. But if the homosexual feelings are largely predominant…that is a much heavier cross, in a sense.
 
As for masturbation…obviously you know that it is, objectively, a mortal sin.

Your culpability may be reduced through addiction, the overwhelming persuasion of hormones, etc…but that doesn’t mean you still shouldn’t try to quit. Saying, “well, I’m addicted so it’s not my fault,” is not the way you deal with an addiction. You have to keep taking responsibility, going to confession, and trying the many ways suggested to quit. Don’t worry so much about hell, right now, but rather more about God’s mercy, and repenting so you may obtain it.

Masturbation…is a spiritual problem, but not a psychological one, as someone said earlier. It is immoral, but it is psychologically normal for teenage boys. As for how God intended it to be morally released, there are several answers. One, of course, is in nocturnal emissions (“wet dreams”). Some people have these, though if you masturbate frequently it is not likely. You have to abstain for a few weeks, and even then not everyone has them. Not everyone has them because they are not necessary, really. The fluid itself can be reabsorbed as protein by the body, and the sexual energy can be worked off through excercise and other constructive physical activity.

Frankly, I felt more masculine and more energized when I began to abstain. Channeling that energy into other activities and having that…I dunno, “life force”…being used how it was supposed to be (ie, either in excercise, or in procreation for the married) was invigorating. Masturbation leaves one feeling guilty, tired, lethargic, sluggish, and weak. When I began to abstain, I felt a certain vitality. I had more energy, felt more confident, and more masculine. I don’t know if it was physiological or psychological…but it was a real phenomenon.

For straight guys…masturbation may just be a sort of habit. A physiological urge for pleasure. But I think for guys who suffer from same-sex attraction…there may be more powerful psychological motives. Masturbation tempts us with a connection with our body, with our masculine sexuality, with other guys who we assume also masturbate. Many homosexuals are more detached from their bodies and sexuality…and so descending into base gratification offers a connection. If also offers proof of ones potency, fertility, virility, etc…

But the boost it offers is short lived. Almost immediately afterwards…you realize that nothing has changed, that you still feel bad about yourself, that it was an unfruitful, barren, solitary, lonely act. That it was just covering deeper wounds, a quick fix that was not affirming of masculinity at all, but rather just pathetic and delusion.
 
trueknights.org is another good web site to help with your cross and I’m sure there are others. Many have went through what you are going through now and a few have stepped up to the plate to defend Theology of the Body as seen in the image and likeness of God. Immerse yourself on the true theology of sexuality and avoid the temptations that our society is plagued with. Christopher West, Jason Everet, and Ken Henderson are all disciples of this mission and I would recommend reading or listening to what they have to say.
 
Masturbation is a spiritual problem, but not a psychological one. However, pornography is both a spiritual problem and a psychological one. Masturbation, though immoral, is psychologically normal. It’s a temptation as old as time itself. However, pornography is a major psychological epidemic that is very recent. Especially the image-bombardment internet porn industry. Sexual fantasy, though wrong, isn’t all that powerful by itself because the imagination is rather weak, the images not concrete, being more “foggy” and “back in the head”…and they are only generated from things already in your mind.

But porn inserts new images, concrete sensory images at a rate that is unrealistic at even the worst orgies. It offers a release of brain chemicals that pharmocologically changes the brain, truly can cause addiction…and basically turns you more and more into some sort of rat in a Skinner Box, just pressing the lever for an escalating need for gratification.

While masturbation rarely reaches the level of true physical addicton…pornography can very fast.

For anyone, but especially guys with same-sex attraction…again, there are psychological motives too. Porn offers a connection with men, a chance to compare your body and sexuality with theres, the intriguing thrill of knowing that someone was willing to expose very intimate things to you.

Of course, afterwards, when your mind is off its high and you are more realistic…you realize the actors had no idea who you are, were just doing it because they are shameless and wanted money, and that what you saw were cold, dead images on a screen that offered no connection with anything real or real people, and in fact isolated you more from them.

It can create unrealistic expectations about your body or the bodies of others, and rigid artificial schemas about sex and what it should be like.

And it adds dirty images to your memory. Mere impure thoughts…like I said…just use what is already there in the mind. But porn burns new images into the brain, and only reinforces its own addiction, and reinforces same-sex attraction through operant conditioning. Digging the unwanted pleasure pathways into deeper and deeper ruts.

Quit porn first, and you might find quitting masturbation much easier, as the brain works its way out of the swamp of filth that porn emerges it in.
 
typical_teen said:
I am a very skinny, hypoglycemic, vegaterian who doesn’t eat enough. So fasting would not be great for me.

But thanks for the rest of your help. I am glad to see that there are other teens that have faced/are facing the same problems I have.
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I don’t know if the Catholic church teaches this as a valid practice, but fast something other than food. Do watch a lot of TV, fast TV. Spend a lot of time online, give that up for some time.
 
As for same-sex attraction itself…it is not a sin. Acting on it is, but you know that you can control that.

I believe that, especially in younger men, it can be somewhat healed. But that is not a required teaching of the Church. As you have seen on this thread, Catholics validly may hold either opinion as to its psychologically genesis. And as long as you live chastely, there is no requirement that you try to change.

I do not think complete change is probable, as once pathways are laid down in the brain…they can’t really be uprooted. There will always be some remnant of them.

However, I do believe that sexuality develops (ie, it is not something “hard-wired” that we are born with), that same-sex attraction is the result of emotional conflicts, and that especially in the young whose brains are still rather plastic…some significant healing is possible.

Of course, even if you are 60 and they probability of changing your basic arousal pathways is extremely low…I still think a lot of good can come from dealing with the masculinity issues that I think are behind most same-sex attraction.

Even if dealing with these doesn’t completely get rid of the attraction, even though the arousal pathways will remain even if the psychological issues that caused them are dealt with…I have found it makes dealing with homosexual feelings much more manageable. Though the basic arousal pathways will still be there, dealing with the emotional issues will make the urges much less intense, much less desperate. You will feel more confident and masculine and find the strength to fight temptation more.

You should make some male friends. All parent-issues aside, I think the biggest factor in Same Sex Attraction these days is problems with male peers. Homosexuality does start as effeminacy emotionally. You need to learn to reconcile yourself with your male body, your male sexuality, and your male peers and come to identify with them as good things.

I know I was very conflicted and had a very negative view of masculinity. But I really also wanted to be accepted and recieve affection. I have this quote saved on my computer, I’m not sure what website it is from, but I think it describes the issues pretty well:
When a young man is left fearful of males and not understanding how to interact with them, yet desiring a powerful emotional connection, commonly a fantasy idealization of men emerges. For the young man who will develop SSA, this
idealization becomes sexualized. This sexualization begins as a way to create a feeling of safety and stop the fear/panic response that is triggered by things that remind him of his own masculine inadequacy. The sexual fantasy provides the young man with two things that he needs: it allows him to remain safely detached from identifying with men, while providing him with a powerful emotional connection with men.
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His dis-identification with men protects him from his fear of masculine incompetence; in addition, it protects his infantile bond with his mother. But the sexual fantasy or behavior allows the struggler to have connection with a man without the overwhelmingly frightening obligation to become a man. He forfeits becoming fully male, which he fears he cannot achieve, in exchange for having the love and approval of a man. He becomes sexually attracted to the characteristics of other men that he feels he cannot achieve in himself.
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So I think building heterosexual male friendships, and psychologically distancing yourself from the cloying grasp of effeminacy (that well-meaning mothers, teachers, and female friends often cultivate in more sensitive boys) are the most important things for guys struggling with same sex attractions. I’m not saying that you have to reject all your female friends, but you have to interact with them in a healthy, masculine way. Being a guy-friend of theirs, not “one of the girls”…

It can be scary. Guys, especially our age, are threatening and spontaneous. That’s part of the attraction, there are some powerful personalities out there that you may admire, but which seem mysterious and unobtainable. But I’ve found that most of these guys are really nice, and really willing to make friends, and have their own weakness and insecurities too. And the bullies? Well, they’re jerks, who’d wanna be friends with them?! And yet, I’ve realize that there are bad sides of women too…so my romanticization of the feminine and demonization of the masculine has decreased. Men and women can both be heroes, and men and women can both be villians. Creating a duality of masculine vs. feminine is unhealthy and must give way to a more complimentary, nuanced, dynamic view. That there are all types of people, and sexuality is a good thing that is the foundation of our relational interactions (both erotic and friendship) and our personalities.

And though sports are certainly not essential for masculinity, and there are many kinds of men who don’t like sports and are still masculine…make sure that you truly don’t like sports, and aren’t just defensively avoiding them. I don’t particularly like sports, but at the same time I had to at least make my peace with them, and get over my crippling fear of athletics and competition. I’m more intellectual, and am never going to be a big sports fan…but I had to overcome my fear of them, at least, and be able to play them socially sometimes.
 
typical_teen said:
I have looked at porn a lot; guys and girls. I have also been masturbating a lot. I have been trying to give both up, but it is very difficult.
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I know it’s difficult, but it won’t happen without prayer. I know it sounds silly, but prayer helps. As soon as the urge comes around or you get the thought in your head, pray the Hail Mary (and mean every word of it!) or recite the simple Jesus Prayer:

Lord Jesus Christ, Son of the living God, have mercy on me, a sinner.

But as I said before, you have to sincerely say it. It ain’t a magic spell or anything.
I find myself looking at other men, and lusting over them. I have had girlfriend’s in the past. And I find women to be sexy, so I know that I am not 100% gay. But I still find men attractive too.
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There is nothing wrong with finding men attractive. To observe that a man is attractive is not lusting over them, nor is it an indication of homosexuality.
Last time I went to confession I asked the priest if he had any advice for me, but he was no help at all. I asked him if he had any tips on how to stop masturbating. He said no, in an almost insulting way. I thought priests wanted to help you.
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I’m suprised that he didn’t tell you to pray. :hmmm:
My mother is very religous. I kinda think that she suspects that I am gay/bi. Most of my friends are girls. I hang out with a lot of girls. I hate sports and most of the things other guys like. I don’t really connect with regular guys. The gay men that I have met or seen have been the most like me.
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That does not make you gay though and THIS is the thing that is WRONG in our society. For some reason, society has put boys in a box that say that they have to like the color blue and never pink, they have to be athletic and not artistic. The ONLY thing that makes a homosexual a homosexual is their sexual attraction.
How do I deal with these uncontrolable urges?
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First, by recognizing that urges are controllable. There is no such thing as an uncontrollable urge.

BTW, you mentioned your mother, where does your father fit into all of this? He hasn’t by any chance called you a sissy in any way has he?
 
typical_teen said:
If I hold the urges off as best as I can, but then after a week of holding back I masturbate; is that a mortal sin?

I read in the catachism that it is not considered a mortal sin if you are addicted. Well, I think I fall into that catagory :rolleyes: I can only go to confession on Mondays, and I plan to go every monday that I can. But if I were to masturbate on a thursday because I couldn’t hold it in any longer, and then I died the next day before I confessed it, would that stop me from entering Heaven?
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According to the Catholic Church - it’s quite possilble.

Yeah, pretty messed up, eh? Eternal hellfire and punishment… because you died on a thursday.
 
Update: There is a clause somewhere in the doctrine regarding mortal sin that if you intend to go to confession when you die, you’re okay.
 
My dear,

We all have our temptions no matter what our age/sex. You mentioned in one post that if you masturbate the Thursday before you went for Confession on Monday and died, would Christ be upset (something to that effect).

Well, let’s play a little scenario game, let’s say you did the deed and die today. And you are now in front of Christ, do you think He would love you less for masturbating? And even if He does not love you less, do you think He would have been hurt by your actions?

So why would He be hurt, since you “gain” a certain satisfaction by your release, because the urge is so great.

Yes, you have been able to gain temporary relief. But this act that you have done does more harm to you in a long run. You mentioned that you could be addicted. So what does it mean to be addicted? It does somewhat imply that you have no control over your need. So who is in control? You? Your urges?

What do addictions do to us, it allows the addiction to be in control and therefore, you have made your temporary relief “god”. Now it is not God who will you will be afraid to offend, rather the “god” that you have created, since each time you feel you have the urge you have to satisfy the urge.

So how is it that Christ will not be hurt by your action. It is just one way to look at it and there are many other ways to look at it.

The most important thing is to remember that God loves you very much and knows that what you are going through is difficult. But in His mercy He will always be there waiting for you to go / turn to Him and trust in to help you be in control of yourself.

A much longer post than I expected to write. Hope this little thots will be helpful.

God is with you and He loves you very much. Turn to Him in all things.

Godloves U
 
typical_teen said:
I think it is very unpractical to think that a teenage male could never masturbate again. That is ridiculous.

Teenagers have hormones, and no way to control them. It is not like I can go and have sex with my wife like most of you. If I hold it in, I am bound to explode!
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Teen:

I’m going to pipe in here and try to keep it brief. For the benefit of the liberals I want to say that since the day I woke up to discover that my body produced adult fluids, I have not masturbated. That was 30 years ago. Also I want to admit that guys who don’t do this still deal with the urge every week. But Guys who do, I suppose, deal with the urge every day - the more you do the more you want to. I’m not sure that abstainers are any less happy than practitioners.

On the other hand, I do believe there is something to be said for the liberal point of view. I do find it hard to believe that the Old Testament, with its multiplicity of laws, had no law at all against this practice. I have to wonder, did God give the Jewish boys an exemption? Or are we expected to believe that m- was not invented until after the first century A.D.?

Nevertheless the Chruch’s position on it is clear. M- does not fulfill God’s plan for our bodies. But as catholics we need to soften the mortal sin rhetoric. Fairly recent church documents made it completely clear about the mitigating effects of habit, anxiety, and age. So please, if you fall in your struggle for purity don’t imagine that God has turned His back on you and you have no grace or relationship with Him. He’s with you in the struggle and His love for you in unchanging. In the past 30 years the urges have not gone away and I’m never sure in my heart that the lifelong white-knuckled cold turkey approach is the most Spirit filled way of dealing with our human nature. We don’t consider that sort of “perfection” to be very human, after all. Certainly not with many of the soically acceptable sins. The Bible says “The letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.” The letter of the law is 100% absolute abstinence. No matter how har…difficult. Period. The spirit of the law…I just don’t know.
 
Here’s the thing though - repentance is a 2-part process:

1 - Turn away from sin.

2 - Turn toward God.

If all we do is turn away from sin, and don’t turn toward God, we will end up feeling empty and frustrated.

Hope this is helpful and doesn’t sound trite, but one of the tips I’ve read for counteracting any vice, is to cultivate the opposing virtue. The virtue opposed to lust is love, or charity.

When we are struggling to avoid impurity, even as we resolve NOT to do impure acts or thoughts, on the positive side we do well to at the same time strive to do something good or kind for somebody. For example, maybe clean the garage for your dad. Accept it cheerfully if he does not appreciate this. Don’t talk back if he ignores your good intentions and yells at you for moving his tools from where he likes them to be (all over the place). 😃 Etc.

There are millions of charitable acts we can do, we can give money to good causes (almsgiving), we can pray fervently for somebody… Etc. Not to go overboard - and we need to remember that we are ultimately doing this for God and desiring union with Him - but the more sacrificial the act of kindness is, the more beneficial it can be to us … consider giving it a try. I’ve had good results with this when I actually practice it. It takes my mind off myself and any lustful thoughts and moves my attention to serving others.

Theoretically (and it’s not an impossibility either, although it’s obviously a difficult sacrifice), if i did a really good deed every time I felt tempted, I could be a saint by now! Maybe that’s the challenge God has before us, to turn temptations into gifts to Him through the use of our free will - making heroic choices by the power of the Holy Spirit.
 
Dear Typical Teen,

I wanted to share some ideas that I learned from EWTN about heaven and hell and that I discussed with a friend of mine.

He and I are no theologians, so these concepts may be imprecise, but I think they’re worth considering. Feel free to correct any fine points, but I don’t think we were too far off of what Jesus teaches through the Catholic Church in our discussion:

1 - God loves us - that we know.

2 - God gave us free will - that we also know.

3 - God ultimately gives us what we want - this is the key point.

Does God send us to hell? Not really…

Think of it this way: heaven is a place where God’s will is done always. If we don’t want God’s will to be done, we won’t enjoy heaven - because doing God’s will constantly for all eternity is not really what we want. Everybody wants to avoid suffering and enjoy the bliss of heaven, but usually we forget that the bliss of heaven comes from God, and that suffering comes from going against God’s will. Bliss is a package deal - it’s only possible when we are in tune with all that is truly good - God’s will.

God makes heaven available to us through grace. I don’t mean to say we earn our way to heaven. But there is also a great deal of work to be done on our part. And it boils down to forming our will to conform to God’s will.

It may seem impossible to be fully in tune with God’s will in this life - and maybe it is. I certainly am not there yet. Yet I and others here and in support groups I have attended have, at least in the area of chastity, been able to break with certain behaviors that we know from the Church are gravely evil. Like masturbation or fornication. I personally think that if in your heart you do not want to masturbate, that MIGHT count as repentance. But don’t stop there! There is always a deeper level of harmony with God’s will that we can attain. Keep going deeper. Because the deeper we go, the more assurance we can have of ending up with God in heaven.

This reminds me of words attributed by Father Groeschel to Saint Joan of Arc. I believe it was when she was being questioned in court. They asked her if she was in the state of grace, and she said “I believe that I am. But if I am not, may it please God to put me there. And if I am, may it please God to keep me there.” I find that a brilliant summation of the Christian life.

It’s very difficult to break an addiction to porn and masturbation. I am a man who has done so, for what that’s worth to you - it’s not impossible. It’s also not easy. But it’s so WORTH IT if you want to be FREE and truly be in control of your own mind and soul.

And MORE THAN THAT: it’s worth it because it prepares you for heaven. Each action we choose sort of expresses the kind of person we are, and reinforces the habit of being such a person - whether a person who lets lust carry us away, or a person who will go to great lengths to behave in such a way that God has indicated is in our best interests.

I said so in a previous post and I do believe you are on the right track, Typical_Teen. Don’t give up. I think you will find that the initial part of breaking these addictions is the most difficult time. After the first couple of months (a very tough couple of months), you will see that living addiction-free gradually gets easier as you reinforce good behavior and find joy in new areas of your life.
 
brotherjoe said:
Teen:

I’m going to pipe in here and try to keep it brief. For the benefit of the liberals I want to say that since the day I woke up to discover that my body produced adult fluids, I have not masturbated. That was 30 years ago. Also I want to admit that guys who don’t do this still deal with the urge every week. But Guys who do, I suppose, deal with the urge every day - the more you do the more you want to. I’m not sure that abstainers are any less happy than practitioners.

On the other hand, I do believe there is something to be said for the liberal point of view. I do find it hard to believe that the Old Testament, with its multiplicity of laws, had no law at all against this practice. I have to wonder, did God give the Jewish boys an exemption? Or are we expected to believe that m- was not invented until after the first century A.D.?

Nevertheless the Chruch’s position on it is clear. M- does not fulfill God’s plan for our bodies. But as catholics we need to soften the mortal sin rhetoric. Fairly recent church documents made it completely clear about the mitigating effects of habit, anxiety, and age. So please, if you fall in your struggle for purity don’t imagine that God has turned His back on you and you have no grace or relationship with Him. He’s with you in the struggle and His love for you in unchanging. In the past 30 years the urges have not gone away and I’m never sure in my heart that the lifelong white-knuckled cold turkey approach is the most Spirit filled way of dealing with our human nature. We don’t consider that sort of “perfection” to be very human, after all. Certainly not with many of the soically acceptable sins. The Bible says “The letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.” The letter of the law is 100% absolute abstinence. No matter how har…difficult. Period. The spirit of the law…I just don’t know.
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I gotta say, this is probably one of the most lucid responses so far.
 
Hi brotherjoe - You asked about Judaism - Judaism does indeed have rules against masturbation, just as it did in Jesus’ time as well. See catholic.com/thisrock/1991/9107chap.asp
and
google.com/search?hl=en&q=masturbation+site%3Aaskmoses.com

Thanks for your insights - I bolded what made most sense to me in your post below.
brotherjoe said:
Teen:

I’m going to pipe in here and try to keep it brief. For the benefit of the liberals I want to say that since the day I woke up to discover that my body produced adult fluids, I have not masturbated. That was 30 years ago. Also I want to admit that guys who don’t do this still deal with the urge every week. But Guys who do, I suppose, deal with the urge every day - the more you do the more you want to. I’m not sure that abstainers are any less happy than practitioners.

On the other hand, I do believe there is something to be said for the liberal point of view. I do find it hard to believe that the Old Testament, with its multiplicity of laws, had no law at all against this practice. I have to wonder, did God give the Jewish boys an exemption? Or are we expected to believe that m- was not invented until after the first century A.D.? (see above comment)

Nevertheless the Chruch’s position on it is clear. M- does not fulfill God’s plan for our bodies. But as catholics we need to soften the mortal sin rhetoric. Fairly recent church documents made it completely clear about the mitigating effects of habit, anxiety, and age. So please, if you fall in your struggle for purity don’t imagine that God has turned His back on you and you have no grace or relationship with Him. He’s with you in the struggle and His love for you in unchanging…
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In this next section of your post I wasn’t quite sure what you meant:
brotherjoe said:
In the past 30 years the urges have not gone away and I’m never sure in my heart that the lifelong white-knuckled cold turkey approach is the most Spirit filled way of dealing with our human nature. (not meaning to get too personal, but, your profile says you are married, right?) We don’t consider that sort of “perfection” to be very human, after all. Certainly not with many of the soically acceptable sins. The Bible says “The letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.” The letter of the law is 100% absolute abstinence. No matter how har…difficult. Period. The spirit of the law…I just don’t know.
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In my reading about how various saints and catechisms advised on how to avoid impurity, they admit and even emphasize that living a chaste life is not simply an iron-clad willpower, but a real work of grace. So in that way, this virtue is not only human, but the human will working along with the supernatural power of the Holy Spirit which we can receive through prayer and the sacraments.
 
Exalt said:
Update: There is a clause somewhere in the doctrine regarding mortal sin that if you intend to go to confession when you die, you’re okay.
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Exalt, please find that clause for us; this sounds too much like “spend your whole life in sin because all you have to do is hope for a shot at the Sacrament before death.” That can’t possibly be the Church’s teaching.

Thanks for your good word for me earlier.

Joe
 
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