I think the JW's are the "most right" religion out there

[Jaded27]

Beebs:

I am not better or stronger than anyone else, I am nothing in front of God. Any good that I may do is through God’s graces. I am just a sinner. We all are sinners.

Don’t judge less ye be judged. You assume my prayers are self righteous, but you don’t know my heart.

I will pray for you and I hope you will pray for me. 1 Timothy 2:1

God Bless

Beebs

And by the way, why are you in particular so adamant about arguing with me? Do you know me personally? I"ve had that happen to me before. We’re both in the same state. How do I know you’re not some psycho I know in real life trying to annoy me so that you can say “see? Witnesses really don’t know what they’re talkign about and here’s proof”

 

[MrS]

carol marie:

Would you please identify these “blatant lies” that are being strewn about your religion?

or just one statement you think is a lie. After both side, or points of view have been stated, let the reader decide if more infor is required, or the case is settled.

No one here will convert you - that is God’s job. It is only God Who has the ability to open one’s eyes. And He will do it in His time. But it often requires some bit of cooperation on our part.

 

[Jaded27]

MrS:

or just one statement you think is a lie. After both side, or points of view have been stated, let the reader decide if more infor is required, or the case is settled.

It’s all pointless. no thanks.

 

[carol_marie]

Jaded27:

Um buddy? If you don’t think I’ve been judged on here. . .ahha, you really need to read through all the threads.

Jaded,
No one has “judged” you here. Not one person. What we’ve done is simply question the authority of the Watchtower Society. Don’t make this into something personal - it’s not. Several times you have been told that you are welcome here. Several times we have asked you to pick a topic - ANY topic and we’ll discuss it. Several times we have asked you to explain the Biblical basis for your beliefs. We are listening to you.

But you’ve called us “stubborn, bitter, self righteous.” Is that because we haven’t accepted what you’ve said as “truth.”

No one is wanting to “argue” with you. We want to talk to you. That is the purpose of the forums. As I’ve said -you can pick the topic. We’ll discuss it… just as if you were at our door. Count it as time if you like?

And I seriously doubt that Beebs knows you personally - Besides - as I said, this isn’t personal. We want to talk theology. If you aren’t interested - then we should all let these threads go. We’ve made our poisition clear.

 

[Jaded27]

carol marie:

And I seriously doubt that Beebs knows you personally - Besides - as I said, this isn’t personal. We want to talk theology. If you aren’t interested - then we should all let these threads go. We’ve made our poisition clear.

I don’t seriously doubt it. You never know. People are cruel.

I’m not interested and I think ALL the threads should be let go. As in close the forum. No one’s going to learn anything of any use here.

 

[scylla]

I really hope you do stick around, Jaded, you seem to have a calm posting manner, which is good for dialogue.

Catholics are usually pretty used to having to provide answers to all sorts of questions about their faith and some of us are very happy to oblige. So often we are used to searching for truth and asking questions. I believe faith comes preceding understanding, but life is a never-ending search for better understanding.

If you would rather not have to answer questions we have of the history of Jehovah’s Witnesses, feel free to stick around and just let us know. You will learn more about our perceptions and if necessary you can correct any mis-representations.

God Bless
Scylla

 

[Jaded27]

And by the way, I have opened up a topic in here. I tried to be positive. I started the “have you ever been to a meeting” thread. And you know what? THAT one turned into something negative too that was TOTALLY off topic. I love how I get called on it by a mod in the homosexual thread I started, but no one does in here because who cares what the stupid witness thinks.

 

[Jaded27]

scylla:

I really hope you do stick around, Jaded, you seem to have a calm posting manner, which is good for dialogue.

Catholics are usually pretty used to having to provide answers to all sorts of questions about their faith and some of us are very happy to oblige. So often we are used to searching for truth and asking questions. I believe faith comes preceding understanding, but life is a never-ending search for better understanding.

If you would rather not have to answer questions we have of the history of Jehovah’s Witnesses, feel free to stick around and just let us know. You will learn more about our perceptions and if necessary you can correct any mis-representations.

God Bless
Scylla

That’s probably the only balanced and fair thing I’ve heard on here. But it’s still not worth all the frusttration to me. People asked ME questions and I get blamed for it and nit picked about it.

I just want to point out, that I have actually BEEN to church. numerous times. I like it. It’s nice.
But you know what? You don’t LEARN anything there. It’s a five minute talk and then they read from the book that already has the scriptures in it so that you don’t ever have to pick up a Bible for yourself and actually read.
I love that when I go to meetings I am constantly learning something. THAT is what convinces me I’m in the right place. It’s like after CCD you all are done learning. There is always more knowledge to be gained.

 

[Beebs]

Jaded27:

And by the way, why are you in particular so adamant about arguing with me?

I am just responding to you.

Jaded27:

Do you know me personally?

No

Jaded27:

I"ve had that happen to me before. We’re both in the same state. How do I know you’re not some psycho I know in real life trying to annoy me so that you can say “see? Witnesses really don’t know what they’re talkign about and here’s proof”

How do I know you’re some psycho? I am more exposed since my profile lists my town.

I shall grant you desire to have me not to respond to you directly.

Beside all this back and forth is distracting the issue at hand.

Please do not respond to me but answer severinus questions.

God Bless and forth in peace.

Beebs

 

[scylla]

I don’t think there are very many cruel people out there, there are a lot of people out here spending time just trying to share a love of God and search for a better understanding of truth.

Here is a favorite blessing of mine which brings me memories of childhood.

May God Bless and keep you,
May God’s light shine on you,
May God be kind to you,
And bring you peace.


Scylla

 

[MrS]

But you keep posting… why not make your time count for something, if you really believe what you say you believe.

You will not be dis-fellowshipped on this forum if you remain civil. Let the moderators pick on some one else.

So, again, here or on a new thread, ask a question, or make a statement of a position held by the Watchtower. Be prepared for the opposing point of view. The Truth will survive.

 

[Penitent]

Jaded27:

But you know what? You don’t LEARN anything there. It’s a five minute talk and then they read from the book that already has the scriptures in it so that you don’t ever have to pick up a Bible for yourself and actually read.
I love that when I go to meetings I am constantly learning something. THAT is what convinces me I’m in the right place. It’s like after CCD you all are done learning. There is always more knowledge to be gained.

This whole thread is sad and bothersome to me, but the above words I think make me saddest. The Bible is the word of God–and “words” are meant to be heard, just as in the early church celebrations when there were no written words, but rather “spoken words” just as we do them in the Mass today. It is the earliest form of worship–hearing the “word” of God–not reading it.

You enjoy learning from others in your meetings, but I enjoy learning from God by meditating on His words and on Him, listening to Him in my heart through His words, and praying the Bible, both in Mass and privately. If I had to pick a part of the Mass to be dispensed with, it would be the homily, that’s how important hearing the WORD of God is to me.

Penitent

 

[MrS]

Penitent:

If I had to pick a part of the Mass to be dispensed with, it would be the homily, that’s how important hearing the WORD of God is to me.

Penitent

Boy, there are times I would really agree with you on that

 

[carol_marie]

Jaded27:

I don’t seriously doubt it. You never know. People are cruel.

I’m not interested and I think ALL the threads should be let go. As in close the forum. No one’s going to learn anything of any use here.

Jaded,
I’ve learned a great deal from you. But actually it’s stuff I remember from when I was a witness. When faced with a person who knows her Bible - who knows more about Church history then you do… claim “persecution” and move on. Nothing has changed.

Maybe you aren’t ready to learn, and if that’s the case, so be it… but it is my hope that another JW who is reading this might be. If so, please know that I have been in your place. I know what it’s like to THINK that you are serving Jehovah - that you have “the truth” - mainly because the Watchtower has said so over & over & over again. But the evidence is all there - it cannot be denied. Look at old Watchtower publications… read Russell’s words for yourself. Look at all the prophecies that have failed to come true and then look up Dut: 18 in the Bible… see what Jehovah Himself has to say about false prophets. Read the hundreds of stories written by former Witnesses - elders - people who served in Bethel - pioneers - they aren’t bitter people who have “failed to live by Bible standards” - they were witnesses just like you who, when they realized they had been lied to for years, decided they weren’t going to take it anymore. Decide for yourself. Don’t take my word for it… you’ve been listening to somebody else tell you what to believe long enough. Pray that Jehovah would open your eyes to the truth - a truth that’s not found in the Watchtower - but rather, in Jesus Christ.
God Bless us all,
CM

 

[MrS]

that is a powerful admission and series of statements. God Bless you for them.

 

[Nekic]

I started reading this thread a couple of days ago.

I came back to see the rest of it, and how the conversation has developed.

How dissapointed i am. It has turned into nothing but a bitter feud.

Jaded,
seriously, i think you should give the conversation another chance. Everyone else has seen what upsets you, and i assure you, they will not do it again. Build a bridge and get over it. They will be nice to you. Forgive them, and let the conversation continue ON TOPIC, I.E. THE DIVINGITY OF CHRIST (for everyone else.)

everyone else,
if you want the conversation to continue, if he agrees of course, do not do the things he takes offense to.

Geez, i sound like a modearator.
But, i want to genuinely read an interesing and informative thread on the WT’s reasons for not believing that Christ was divine, without any arguements. I genuinely want to learn. Jaded, here is your chance.

 

[b_justb]

Nekiæ:

everyone else,
if you want the conversation to continue, if he agrees of course, do not do the things he takes offense to.

Like stating the historically accurate, providing verifiable references of the Christian position on a given subject and then asking why the JW’s differ from it? That seems to be the thing that makes her mad. Are you really suggesting we not do that?

 

[scjmb03]

I read this entire threat for the first time tonight and honestly I am floored by what has developed here.

Jaded27, and others, I do not believe anyone means to be picking on you and they have apologized for offending you their attempts at humor. As a Catholic ex-JW, I understand it is hard to see your faith attacked and questioned, but I must agree with the sentiment that you do not want to focus on reasonable questions. When JWs state certain scriptures mean what they want them to mean and ignore scriptures that offer conflicting messages it raises questions among non-JWs and/or those who have left the JWs. You have given certain non-JW references, but when further questions are asked it seems like you ignore and/or avoid those questions and want us to ignore centuries of Christian history without question.

So, my main point is focus on the entirety of the posts and their specific questions instead of trying to pick the questions apart. This is a method of communication where it can be hard to portray what is meant as humor so please give these people some slack. When you keep things focused on the poor method of expressing through this forum it appears you do not want to answer the questions - or maybe you don’t have the answers. I am not being mean by saying this, but I know JWs have a hard time when you bring up issues outside their normal talking points. Valid questions have been asked and need addressing instead of avoided for the sake of the emotional arguments.

Honestly, I believe the fact you - and other JWs - are on this BBS is the fact you do have questions about JW teachings that they aren’t answering. If you didn’t you wouldn’t risk associating with the likes of apostate me - and others - and would focus on reading JW materials instead.

If you really read the posts without focusing on emotion and you will see people are want answers to honest questions.

 

[cardenio]

I agree with Nekic’ here.

In the trying-to-convert debate-turned-argument, remember that you are not trying to win your argument, you’re trying to win your neighbor.

Also, remember that Jaded is significantly outnumbered here. I’ve been on a protestant forum (guideposts for teens) and I know it’s not easy being outnumbered. Especially when it gets to the point where someone picks a topic and says “why do you believe that? huh? huh? explain that. well?” and sometimes it’s a topic I’m not too strong on myself; I’ve left it to roma locuta est, causa finita est. In movies, the opponents stand in a circle and attack one by one. Here, everybody attacks all at once when we should not be attacking, should not be arguing, but should be learning.

It’s fine to ask questions, but do it politely. Try “Can you give me the JW interpretation of this passage?” instead of “Ha! I’d like to see the JW interpretation of that!”

Take what you say and hold it up to a mirror. The “I said happy birthday and God didn’t strike me down” is a good example. What’s to keep a serial killer from saying “Well, God hasn’t struck me down, so it must be okay.” Hey, same logic.

Do you really expect God to strike us down every time we sin? I’m glad he doesn’t; even with the lightest rod I’d be badly bruised. As would you. As would anyone.

You can’t expect Jaded to know every tiny thing about JWs unless you know every tiny thing about Catholicism. I know I don’t - that’s why I’m here.

Even if Catholicism were proven true, right here on this thread, what would happen? There would be a lot of “ha! we were right! now convert!” But what good is truth when it makes people arrogant? What good is truth when it makes people judgmental? What good is truth when it acts like this?

What good is truth without love?

 

[JP_Augustine]

carol marie:

Jaded,
I am so sorry you feel you’ve been attacked for your faith in the Watchtower Society. If you’ll read through some of the other threads where Catholics and Protestants discuss our religious differences, you’ll see that you have been treated no differently than anyone else. We have pointed out errors in the Watchtower’s theology and we’ve invited you to dispute our findings. We have stated over & over again that we are willing to listen to you. But we are not willing to accept that what you say is “truth” based on nothing more than what the Watchtower says. We’d like you to back up your beliefs using the Bible and Church History - it’s what we require of anyone who wants to debate a theological difference.

Unfortunatly, you and I both know that the claims of the Watchtower do not stand up to such staunch scrutinity. Which is why, whenever a JW is confronted with someone who actually knows his Bible - who has studiesd the early Church… the response is to flee.

I feel so sad for you. I honestly do. You have been fed of a steady diet of Watchtower and you cannot comprehend that they could be wrong. You aren’t willing to consider that you - your dear family - all of your brothers & sisters in the Organization have been mislead by others who were likewise mislead. It goes all the back to Russell and his very strange beliefs about Jehovah.

I am in no way bitter about the Organization. I have nothing but fond memories from my time spent as a Jehovah’s Witness. But when I was unable to deny what I had learned - when the mountain of evidence was just overwhelming - I couldn’t ignore it any longer. I thank Jehovah God every day that He called me out. Which is why I have such a heart for others who are still stuck in that place - as I once was. Don’t take my word for it… just do this please. Pray to Him that He would open your eyes… pray that you would learn the truth about His Son Jesus Christ. Don’t shut your heart or your eyes. Trust that He won’t lead you astray. I will continue to pray for you.

Most Sincerely,
CM

Carole,

This was just a beautiful post. As an ex-JW myself, I appreciate the sensitivity and strength that you showed in this response. You’re right: JW’s ultimately will not accept any perspective that doesn’t jive with the WTS, which is unfortunate and quite sad.

I’m grateful every day that my JW upbringing taught me the rudiments of faith, and that this “grounding” ultimately resulted in my conversion to the Catholic faith this year. It’s been a long, painful road (as you probably well know), but sooo worth it.

Many blessings,
JP Augustine