I Was A Jehovah's Witness from age 28-44. I'm now 55

[fbl9]

I don’t know what percentage are African-American, but I know there has never been one on their governing body. In fact, I’m pretty sure almost all of the governing body members through their short history have all been caucasian Americans. If I had to guess a percentage, after seeing many, many of their congregations across the country, I’d say it’s around 3-5% and no more than that.

The reason i asked was the materail i read on the WTS stated they (WTS) beleived that dark skin was a curse from God and african-americains were banned from jioning the WTS…i geuss that’s what happens whenone reads dated material.

 

[fbl9]

Good question, when put as you have:thumbsup:

I’d say the answer would be that they do not claim to worship Christ but see Him only as the Mediator between men and God (Jehovah).

JW belief:

God: (Jehovah) The Almighty
Holy Spirit: God’s “active force”
Jesus Christ: Savior of man, mediator between man and God. God’s only begotten son. (Only being that God directly created, as all other things were created through Christ)

While that may sound alright at first glance…WTS are still putting a god before them and the Father by putting Jesus between them and God

 

[T_More]

The reason i asked was the materail i read on the WTS stated they (WTS) beleived that dark skin was a curse from God and african-americains were banned from jioning the WTS…i geuss that’s what happens whenone reads dated material.

I seem to remember reading that in some of their early writings as well. That’s why the WTS discourages it’s members from reading it’s early writings. If members actually took the time to read the early material, it would astound them. Below is copied and pasted info from early writings:

The second presence of Christ started in 1874 (WT, 11/1/22, pgs 332-337; Prophecy, 1929, pg 65-66); Vaccinations never saved a human life, doesn’t prevent smallpox, and are condemned (Golden Age, Feb 4, 1931, pg 293-4); The great pyramid of Egypt is a witness of the Lord (WT May 15, 1925 pgs 148-9); God governs the universe from a star called Alcyone (Thy Kingdom Come, 1903 Ed, pg 327); Leviathan of the Bible is the steam locomotive (The Finished Mystery, pg 84-86); Tonsillectomy is condemned; better to commit suicide than have a tonsillectomy (GA, April 7, 1926, pg 438); In the new world, Abraham will rule New York City (GA, Oct 5, 1927, pg 26/29); The black race originated with Noah’s curse upon Canaan (GA, Jul 24, 1929, pg 702); Jews are no longer important to God (Vindication, Vol 2, pg 257-258); God wears clothes (GA, May 19, 1926, pg 534); The WTS stands for the principles of Nazi Germany (Yearbook 1934, pg 134-137); Aspirin is the menace of heart disease (GA, Feb 27, 1935, pg 343-4); Do not use X-rays (GA, Sept 23, 1936, pg 828); In 1938, people should not get married (Face the Facts, pg 46-50); Organ transplants were condemned as cannibalistic (WT, Nov 15, 1967, pg 702-4)

 

[Vasian]

I seem to remember reading that in some of their early writings as well. That’s why the WTS discourages it’s members from reading it’s early writings. If members actually took the time to read the early material, it would astound them. Below is copied and pasted info from early writings:

The second presence of Christ started in 1874 (WT, 11/1/22, pgs 332-337; Prophecy, 1929, pg 65-66); Vaccinations never saved a human life, doesn’t prevent smallpox, and are condemned (Golden Age, Feb 4, 1931, pg 293-4); The great pyramid of Egypt is a witness of the Lord (WT May 15, 1925 pgs 148-9); God governs the universe from a star called Alcyone (Thy Kingdom Come, 1903 Ed, pg 327); Leviathan of the Bible is the steam locomotive (The Finished Mystery, pg 84-86); Tonsillectomy is condemned; better to commit suicide than have a tonsillectomy (GA, April 7, 1926, pg 438); In the new world, Abraham will rule New York City (GA, Oct 5, 1927, pg 26/29); The black race originated with Noah’s curse upon Canaan (GA, Jul 24, 1929, pg 702); Jews are no longer important to God (Vindication, Vol 2, pg 257-258); God wears clothes (GA, May 19, 1926, pg 534); The WTS stands for the principles of Nazi Germany (Yearbook 1934, pg 134-137); Aspirin is the menace of heart disease (GA, Feb 27, 1935, pg 343-4); Do not use X-rays (GA, Sept 23, 1936, pg 828); In 1938, people should not get married (Face the Facts, pg 46-50); Organ transplants were condemned as cannibalistic (WT, Nov 15, 1967, pg 702-4)

So, there you have a little taste of it.
Again… The point I tried to make when I was in the WTS and using these old beliefs was this…
They would, and still do Excommunicate (dis-fellowship) very good people for not going along with such beliefs. Then, even if it was only a year after their “new light” they do not come back to those they kicked out, and say… “Sorry… We made a mistake and we now do accept organ transplants as O.K. in the eyes of the WTS. Sorry we kicked you out… You can come back now”
Therefore, in the eyes of one’s congregation the individual is still considered cut off, and is treated as a heretic.
Very, very sad it is.
Thousands were kicked out prior to the WTS changing their belief on the definition of “the last generation”. This happened prior to around 1995 (or so). No one I know including myself were ever contacted and apologized to or even asked to return. Maybe they knew from past experience that no one would return anyways(??)

I doubt if any JW’s reading about these events and conflicts even know about these sort of things happening.

 

[Vasian]

You were answering questions for others I saw, so I asked one. If you are enjoying yourself, far be it for me to stop you.

On such issues of doctrine/dogma, your own research may serve you better than asking me.
And, as I had mentioned, I’d be glad to help as well if your research efforts fail you:thumbsup:

 

[Vasian]

While that may sound alright at first glance…WTS are still putting a god before them and the Father by putting Jesus between them and God

I’m not sure I understand your view
Jesus, according to a clear statement of scripture is in fact our mediator, no?
He is “the way to the Father”

 

[StrawberryJam]

On such issues of doctrine/dogma, your own research may serve you better than asking me.
And, as I had mentioned, I’d be glad to help as well if your research efforts fail you:thumbsup:

Well Vasian,

Searching the primary sources available on the internet for the JW society, I find nothing on what happened to Micheal the Archangel’s body- if he was resurrected as the angel, and then destroyed? Or his body is shelved somewhere? And if he as Jesus was actually resurrected or re-created.

It’s not worth my time digging into this further, but thank you for your offer.

I think it’s pretty clear this religion is more like science fiction.

 

[Vasian]

Well Vasian,

Searching the primary sources available on the internet for the JW society, I find nothing on what happened to Micheal the Archangel’s body- if he was resurrected as the angel, and then destroyed? Or his body is shelved somewhere? And if he as Jesus was actually resurrected or re-created.

It’s not worth my time digging into this further, but thank you for your offer.

I think it’s pretty clear this religion is more like science fiction.

You got it all conflagerated in your head
HERE IT IS AGAIN FROM POST #113
http://watchtower.org/e/bh/appendix_11.htm

Sorry to see that you are an agnostic. Pray for wisdom and insight:thumbsup:
Oh, yea… You’re not sure there is God The Almighty so therefore you cannot pray, or when you do you’re not sure if He is out there??
Man… how do deal with that?

 

[StrawberryJam]

You got it all conflagerated in your head
HERE IT IS AGAIN FROM POST #113
http://watchtower.org/e/bh/appendix_11.htm

Sorry to see that you are an agnostic. Pray for wisdom and insight:thumbsup:
Oh, yea… You’re not sure there is God The Almighty so therefore you cannot pray, or when you do you’re not sure if He is out there??
Man… how do deal with that?

If you are sincere in asking “how do deal with that” (grammar yours)

I can tell you that within a few weeks of signing on to this forum I have:

1. Read topics relating to christianity here in the library section and at my local library
2. continued to read your narrative with bible study aids, and bought various books on multiple topics at the local catholic book/gift store

Then, a bit later

1. started to attend Holy Mass. I have been on any given week, going to Mass about 2-3 times during the weekday, and at least once if not more on the weekend Masses.
2. attended adoration on Monday nights at the parish I normally go to Mass, but others also.
3. Had seven personal appointments with a good priest with excellent credentials in the catholic church in my archdiocese, who took the time to sit with me one on one for as long as I needed (each visit was approximately one hour)

---

I’ve had about all I am going to take from you. Goodbye, it was fun (for you)

You won’t be the reason I want to learn more. You also won’t be able to squash my will to learn more simply because you are a very lousy evangelist.

 

[Vasian]

If you are sincere in asking “how do deal with that” (grammar yours)

I can tell you that within a few weeks of signing on to this forum I have:

1. Read topics relating to christianity here in the library section and at my local library
2. continued to read your narrative with bible study aids, and bought various books on multiple topics at the local catholic book/gift store

Then, a bit later

1. started to attend Holy Mass. I have been on any given week, going to Mass about 2-3 times during the weekday, and at least once if not more on the weekend Masses.
2. attended adoration on Monday nights at the parish I normally go to Mass, but others also.
3. Had seven personal appointments with a good priest with excellent credentials in the catholic church in my archdiocese, who took the time to sit with me one on one for as long as I needed (each visit was approximately one hour)

---

I’ve had about all I am going to take from you. Goodbye, it was fun (for you)

You won’t be the reason I want to learn more. You also won’t be able to squash my will to learn more simply because you are a very lousy evangelist.

I guess my jocularity comes off as something else to you, and I am very sorry for have insulted you. It was not meant in that vain at all.
I pray that you keep up your work so as to advance to being a believer in our Heavenly Father and Lord, as the blessings are countless.

Nonetheless, the power of prayer has no parallel.

 

[fbl9]

I’m not sure I understand your view
Jesus, according to a clear statement of scripture is in fact our mediator, no?
He is “the way to the Father”

Jesus is a lesser god than the Father…to go the the Father one goes to Him through a lesser god than the Father…

Christians go to the Father through Jesus, whom is equal to the Father.So He is not another god or a lesser god but the true God.

 

[Vasian]

Jesus is a lesser god than the Father…to go the the Father one goes to Him through a lesser god than the Father…

Christians go to the Father through Jesus, whom is equal to the Father.So He is not another god or a lesser god but the true God.

Oh, I understand now what you are saying about the JW doctrine:thumbsup:

 

[Vasian]

Also sorry about my accent. it shows up in my spelling, and sentence structure sometimes.
And, other times it’s just my big fat fingers on these little laptop keyboards.

 

[momin2008]

Vasian - i would love to hear your opinion on my SIL, a devout" JW - my husband and his other siblings were all raised as JWs - their mother is a JW, his father is not

my husband (who describes himself as a non-practicing JW) and i have been married for 3 years, we have one child and another due in February - i am Catholic and we were married in the Catholic Church - our children are being/will be raised Catholic and we celebrate birthdays, holidays, etc. with full participation from my husband

my SIL takes every opportunity to draw my husband back into the JW fold - she routinely sends the local JWs to our door (they always come during the day while he is at work - i either answer the door and tell them that me and my children are Catholic or just don’t answer) - she occasionally invites us to Kingdom Hall but we never go - my husband is VERY open to learning about other religions and has stated that he is respectful of all religions - he is currently taking religion classes at a Baptist university (he’s working on his degree and the classes are required)

my question is what kind of standing does this put my SIL in with the JWs - from everything i’ve read, she should have cut all ties from my husband - my husband has been away from their church for at least 6-8 years - she doesn’t limit her interaction with him (or his other nonpracticing sister) though she does try to limit her interaction with me - she does not attend any of our family celebrations (neither does the rest of the family, which is fine by me) - she has not tried to talk to me about her “religion” - is there some time frame to which she will have to give up her efforts to draw her brother back in or will she be allowed to attempt to “save” him indefinitely? thanks in advance for any insight you are able to provide!

 

[mackbrislawn]

And this is why…

If you compare the two Bible texts, 1 Thessalonians 4:16 and John 5:25-28 it is fairly easy to see why this is one of the strongest cases for supporting the idea that Michael is Jesus.

there does seem to be two possible meanings to: “the Lord Himself shall come down from Heaven with a commanding shout of an archangel’s voice” 1 Thessalonians 4:16. They are: (1) the archangel could be shouting for Jesus; or (2) Jesus could be doing the shouting Himself and he is using the voice of an archangel because He is the Archangel.

John 5:25,28 is their supporting evdence that solves the alleged problem: “the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God”. So in 1 Thessalonians, its the archangel’s voice, but in John 5, it is the voice of the Son of God )?)
Can one be wrong and the other right?
Hmmmm???
Therefore, yes they do have an opinion that Michael the Arch Angel is Jesus’ pre-earthly existance.
Of course there are other scriptural scenarios they cite as well.

Vasian,
I was wondering…are there any other groups that teach or believe Jesus to be Michael?
Do you know of any ancient authors that have expressed that opinion?
The idea that Jesus is God was expressed very early, by Ignatius in about 110 AD. But are there any early writers who thought of Jesus as Michael? Does the Watchtower quote them for support?

 

[mackbrislawn]

How many members of the JW church are africian-american?

When my sister was a Jehovah’s Witness in Chicago, she was the only Caucasian in her congregation.

 

[Vasian]

Vasian - i would love to hear your opinion on my SIL, a devout" JW - my husband and his other siblings were all raised as JWs - their mother is a JW, his father is not

my husband (who describes himself as a non-practicing JW)

Was he ever baptized as a JW?

and i have been married for 3 years, we have one child and another due in February - i am Catholic and we were married in the Catholic Church - our children are being/will be raised Catholic and we celebrate birthdays, holidays, etc. with full participation from my husband

Then he is no JW whatsoever. At least in the eyes of the WTS. In fact he would be considered an apostate.

my SIL takes every opportunity to draw my husband back into the JW fold - she routinely sends the local JWs to our door (they always come during the day while he is at work - i either answer the door and tell them that me and my children are Catholic or just don’t answer) - she occasionally invites us to Kingdom Hall but we never go - my husband is VERY open to learning about other religions and has stated that he is respectful of all religions - he is currently taking religion classes at a Baptist university (he’s working on his degree and the classes are required)

They know how to get a hold of your husband if that is what they really want. My guess is that they are trying to get you to talk to them, and don’t forget that because they keep returning to your door, that JW can keep putting you down as a “return visit” thus putting a feather in their proverbial, “monthly field service report”. “Return visits” are a big deal for door knockers. (Officially known as, “Publishers”)
If you no longer want them to knock on your door, request them to out you on their “Do Not Call” list. It is against the law for them to come to your door after you request to be added to such a list.

my question is what kind of standing does this put my SIL in with the JWs - from everything I’ve read, she should have cut all ties from my husband - my husband has been away from their church for at least 6-8 years - she doesn’t limit her interaction with him (or his other nonpracticing sister) though she does try to limit her interaction with me

Funny thing, is that she can talk to you all she wants because you are not a JW and are considered a potential living “in” the world as it were. Her brother however, is another issue. With her knowledge of his “pagan” and “worldly” activities he should be put out of the WTs and she should not be talking to him except for official family business and issues. My guess is that your hubby is not baptized, or he has been away long enough that nobody knows that he got married in the Catholic Church. That alone will get you disfellowshipped. At the very least, if the elders knew all that is going on and the fact that it has been years since he stepped into a kingdom hall, they might just ask him to send them a letter requesting that he be disassociated.

- she does not attend any of our family celebrations (neither does the rest of the family, which is fine by me) - she has not tried to talk to me about her “religion” - is there some time frame to which she will have to give up her efforts to draw her brother back in or will she be allowed to attempt to “save” him indefinitely? thanks in advance for any insight you are able to provide!

You might talk to your hubby about and share w/ him your annoyance with the situation. But, like I said if the elders knew the whole story and what has been going on, they would stop it ASAP.

 

[Vasian]

Vasian,
I was wondering…are there any other groups that teach or believe Jesus to be Michael?
Do you know of any ancient authors that have expressed that opinion?
The idea that Jesus is God was expressed very early, by Ignatius in about 110 AD. But are there any early writers who thought of Jesus as Michael? Does the Watchtower quote them for support?

Sorry, I never really researched it very much outside of the WTS. I did give a 15 minute talk on it one Thursday night years ago at the kingdom hall but it was all based on WTS dogma.

 

[Rence]

Was he ever baptized as a JW?

Then he is no JW whatsoever. At least in the eyes of the WTS. In fact he would be considered an apostate.

They know how to get a hold of your husband if that is what they really want. My guess is that they are trying to get you to talk to them, and don’t forget that because they keep returning to your door, that JW can keep putting you down as a “return visit” thus putting a feather in their proverbial, “monthly field service report”. “Return visits” are a big deal for door knockers. (Officially known as, “Publishers”)
If you no longer want them to knock on your door, request them to out you on their “Do Not Call” list. It is against the law for them to come to your door after you request to be added to such a list.

Funny thing, is that she can talk to you all she wants because you are not a JW and are considered a potential living “in” the world as it were. Her brother however, is another issue. With her knowledge of his “pagan” and “worldly” activities he should be put out of the WTs and she should not be talking to him except for official family business and issues. My guess is that your hubby is not baptized, or he has been away long enough that nobody knows that he got married in the Catholic Church. That alone will get you disfellowshipped. At the very least, if the elders knew all that is going on and the fact that it has been years since he stepped into a kingdom hall, they might just ask him to send them a letter requesting that he be disassociated.

You might talk to your hubby about and share w/ him your annoyance with the situation. But, like I said if the elders knew the whole story and what has been going on, they would stop it ASAP.

So, would it help her to ‘tip off’ someone to the situation? And if so, who would that someone be?

 

[Vasian]

So, would it help her to ‘tip off’ someone to the situation? And if so, who would that someone be?

The elders of where her SIL attends, but this IMO is a personal matter for her, and her hubby to discuss and work out:thumbsup: