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jmcrae
Guest
Okay, well, how about being more straightforward about what it is that you are driving at. It would make things a whole lot easier.
He’s probably doing his work. (Which I should also probably be doing, too.)
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sandusky
Guest
Direct dmelosi to my post #22.
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Gamera
Guest
Wait … people on CAF are still supposed to work? Uh oh.
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jmcrae
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Thing
Guest
And whosoever shall give to drink to one of these little ones a cup of cold water only in the name of a disciple, amen I say to you, he shall not lose his reward.
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Robert_in_SD
Guest
What must I do to be saved…? Is invoking the name of Jesus the equivalent of “belief” manifest by the jailor in Acts 16? Does the phrase have deeper implications involving covenantal relationship? There is also need for endurance and abiding in Christ that must also occur to ultimately be saved. It is not a one-time event to become saved, just like a wedding doesn’t guarantee a happy marriage. The Church is the bride of Christ. We don’t rest on our laurels. We live, love, and grow in relationship with the Bridegroom (and never apart from Him). That is the “belief” Paul and Silas spoke of from the jail cell. It is the faith they manifested - faith working in Love. The bible tells us to endure:
Mt 10:21-22: …and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved.
Mt 19:16-26 “Teacher, what good deed must I do, to have eternal life?” And he said to him, “Why do you ask me about what is good? One there is who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments.” … “All these I have observed; what do I still lack?” Jesus said to him, “If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.” When the young man heard this he went away sorrowful; for he had great possessions. And Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly, I say to you, it will be hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” When the disciples heard this they were greatly astonished, saying, “Who then can be saved?” But Jesus looked at them and said to them, “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”
Mt 24:9-13 And because wickedness is multiplied, most men’s love will grow cold. But he who endures to the end will be saved.
Lk 8:11-15 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. The ones along the path are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, that they may not believe and be saved. And the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear the word, receive it with joy; but these have no root, they believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. And as for what fell among the thorns, they are those who hear, but as they go on their way they are choked by the cares and riches and pleasures of life, and their fruit does not mature. And as for that in the good soil, they are those who, hearing the word, hold it fast in an honest and good heart, and bring forth fruit with patience.
**Acts 16:29-34 **…he fell down before Paul and Silas, and brought them out and said, “Men, what must I do to be saved?”
And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.” And they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all that were in his house. And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their wounds, and he was baptized at once, with all his family. Then he brought them up into his house, and set food before them; and he rejoiced with all his household that he had believed in God.
The work of salvation was not completed at this point, because Christ had not yet Risen. What benefit would Christ’s death have merited had He not also Risen again? You read too much into this statement. We can agree that his Paschal sacrifice ended at this point, but it is this very sacrifice that is represented at every mass; with Christ as High Priest and perfect Victim. It is not idolatry to adore the Second Person of the Trinity, which is what we do at the sacrifice of the mass.
I think your understanding of “saved” is only supported by bible snippets - i.e. righteousness is just a legal exchange by which Christ’s righteousness is imputed to us (snow covering a dung hill is how Luther put it). But the the Gospel is more beautiful than your faulty version. The bible talks about God truly making us new creations, not just the same old-nature untransformed and tarnished by sin. In Christ, we are truly working and producing like the good branches of the Vine in a manner that is pleasing to God and merits salvation while we endure - IN CHRIST.
None of the sacraments of His Church are man-made. So I agree with you. Perhaps you need to ask yourself if your own personal ritual of salvation - i.e. “accepting Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior” during an altar call (or similar event) is man-made? I see it as such, because it is purported to be one-time legalistic act that is concocted from a faulty and incomplete reading of the Scriptures - and far removed from the covenantal relationship established by Christ at His Last Supper.
I’m sorry that you have been led away from the true Church of Jesus Christ and His sacraments. My prayer is that one day you will find your way home.
Peace,
-Robert
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Thing
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He said he does’nt know yet if he is saved or not.
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jmcrae
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dmelosi
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In your post # 22 you say
Mt 24:13 tells us that we must persevere to the end in order to be saved. You agree with the Catholic view with your statements, so I am not sure why you are arguing here.
You claimed that you knew you were saved. Then you answered my 4 questions with 1 answer “You got it.”
I questioned you about predicting the future and you asked where you did that. I simply pointed that out.
Yes…I have been working…so not sure why you were upset and accused me of ducking you because I didn’t answer you right away.
But it seems like you are twisting things in every post, yet you agree.
Pretty confusing.
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vichlopet
Guest
No you can’t reject his church if you believe in him. That’s why I’m a member of a local bible believing Chruch that Loves the Lord and keeps his words. I love his church and I’m thankful to be a part of it.
And I got saved because I was dead in my trespasses and sins. I heard the word of God and believed. I was born again just like Jesus said I must be. Jesus finished the work of redemption 2000 years ago making it possible for me to be redeemed today.
“Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God”
-Rom 10:17
“How shall they hear except someone preach” - Rom 10:14
That’s why I wasn’t save 2000 years ago.
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dmelosi
Guest
He answered 4 questions with this, so I thought his response was for all of the questions.
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jmcrae
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That little Bible church is not the one that was founded by Christ, though. Christ founded the Catholic Church - and He founded only one.
That is to say, ONE, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. Not several of them.
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Catherine_S
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:yup:
John 15: 4-6 "Abide in me*,** and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me. I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in me, and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing."*
:bible1:
*John 6: 56-58 “He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him. As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats me will live because of me. This is the bread which came down from heaven not such as the fathers ate and died; **he who eats this bread **will **live for ever.”:bowdown: ***
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cathopologist
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Christ is not only my personal Savior, He’s Our Savior. There’s a difference between the Protestant entity that prides itself as “Christ’s Church” and the Catholic Church.
This “church” only has the culpability of having Christ for himself/herself - as in their private, personal Savior. The Catholic Church, is a sharing Church. She teaches love, kindness and humility all through a universal approach - Christ died for OUR sins. Christ is OUR Savior.
A whole lot of difference between their choice of words - whilst i personally have nothing against such remarks, i know sometimes how misleading it can be to people. Christ loves everyone. He must not be forced to choose only one person. I would call my earthly father or mother my personal savior(s) but i know it would be selfish for me to call God MY personal Savior. I’d feel as though i’m restricting His love only for me. For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God, and i am one of them.
Belief can be over-rated sometimes, especially when you have a head full of coconuts (hard-headed and close-minded). Christ knew of such people which is why He said not everyone who called Him Lord, will enter heaven. Again, humility comes to play here. Just believing (by itself), will never get you to the pearly gates. We have to work hard for what we believe in and that’s where our faith in Him is put to the test. No, i’m not talking about spending endless hours in church speaking in tongues so it can make sense even to you.
Our Lord truly blesses every one who seeks the truth. For that to happen, you will need to abide the truthfulness of the sacraments the Early Fathers taught. They are the ones who know better than any modern-day pastor/‘brother’/leader on the subject of man-made rituals.
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vichlopet
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vichlopet
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What about birth? Is that a one time event? Or must one have multiple spiritual rebirths? I don’t know who is a true convert and who is a Judas, but I do know that “But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:”
John 1:12.
How is one born into a family and then cease to be a family member? …strange doctrine.
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maurin
Guest
At what age did you realize that outside of the Church Christ founded the practice of religion is akin to masturbation–devoid of its life-giving quality?
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vichlopet
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Well I never actually considered the two to being related…his church and the Catholic church.
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jmcrae
Guest
People sometimes leave their families and change their names becaue they don’t like their families; sometimes, people are disinherited and/or asked to leave the family home because their behaviour or attitude is contrary to the values of that family.
Being born or adopted into a family gives you a strong chance of remaining a member of that family for your whole life (and remains the only way to become a member), but it isn’t an absolute guarantee.
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jmcrae
Guest
When Christ founded the Church (in Matthew 16:18-19) the first thing He did was establish a “key holder” model of leadership, with Peter as the first leader, or key holder.
When you look at the historical records, you find that only one Church can actually trace itself back to having Peter as its first leader - that is, the Catholic Church. It’s also the only one in existence that refers to its leader as “Keeper of the Keys”.
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