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vichlopet
Guest
I’ve only preach to non Christians. I edify Christians…I’m not here to edify you.
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vichlopet
Guest
I’m glad you asked… I was born one day. Everything that followed my birth was evidence that I am alive. The Philipean jailer was born again in Acts 16:31. Now that he’s been born again he can desire the sincere milk of the Word like God told him to in I Peter 1:23. Now that he’s saved by grace through faith…not of works…it is the gift of God; he’s created (by God) in Christ Jesus unto good works. (Ephesians 2:8-10)
So yes good works will follow salvation. Someone who says they are saved and lives like hell is probably going there.
And yes there is something “if you don’t DO” that will keep you from heaven. If you don’t repent and get born again you won’t go to heaven. If you don’t turn from your own good works and trust the finished work of Christ you won’t get to heaven.
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reen12
Guest
In terms of the destructive activity of Jesus, there is no defense.
He destroyed a living tree, when there were no figs on it…out of season.
“…he found nothing but leaves, because it was not the season for figs.”
It does not take God-like prescience - to know the season for figs
A mere man, Siddhartha, urged human beings to treat life, in all it’s forms,
with great respect.
And here we have a soi-disant God/man destroying a living thing -
to make a simple point?
Might makes right?
Happy that little bush, from which God spoke.
“…chose life…”
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reen12
He destroyed a living tree, when there were no figs on it…out of season.
“…he found nothing but leaves, because it was not the season for figs.”
It does not take God-like prescience - to know the season for figs
A mere man, Siddhartha, urged human beings to treat life, in all it’s forms,
with great respect.
And here we have a soi-disant God/man destroying a living thing -
to make a simple point?
Might makes right?
Happy that little bush, from which God spoke.
“…chose life…”
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reen12
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reen12
Guest
It was his quickness to destroy, that troubles.
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Then Jesus indulges in some hyperbole, about flying mountains and faith -
promising his followers that they could do likewise - to another hapless fig tree, in future -
if they just belived hard enough that this would occur.
“…if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree,
but also you can say to this mountain, ‘Go, throw yourself into the sea,’ and it will be done.”
He noted, at one point, that God knows of each sparrow that falls to the ground.
Yet he referred to ‘dogs,’ when he spoke with a Syrophoenician woman.
This is the stuff of Godhead?
"The woman was a Greek, a Syrophoenician by birth,
and she begged him to drive the demon out of her daughter.
He said to her, “Let the children be fed first.
For it is not right to take the food of the children and throw it to the dogs.”
It is then claimed that he drove a demon out of her daughter.
So a grieving, frightened mother has to endure being called a dog,
before Jesus helps her.
A far cry from the true God, Who is One.
Even if your mother forgets you, I will never forget you.
See? I have written your name on the palms of My hands.
reen12
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Then Jesus indulges in some hyperbole, about flying mountains and faith -
promising his followers that they could do likewise - to another hapless fig tree, in future -
if they just belived hard enough that this would occur.
“…if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree,
but also you can say to this mountain, ‘Go, throw yourself into the sea,’ and it will be done.”
He noted, at one point, that God knows of each sparrow that falls to the ground.
Yet he referred to ‘dogs,’ when he spoke with a Syrophoenician woman.
This is the stuff of Godhead?
"The woman was a Greek, a Syrophoenician by birth,
and she begged him to drive the demon out of her daughter.
He said to her, “Let the children be fed first.
For it is not right to take the food of the children and throw it to the dogs.”
It is then claimed that he drove a demon out of her daughter.
So a grieving, frightened mother has to endure being called a dog,
before Jesus helps her.
A far cry from the true God, Who is One.
Even if your mother forgets you, I will never forget you.
See? I have written your name on the palms of My hands.
reen12
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Pixie_Dust
Guest
Ah, well then. The majority of those participating on this thread are Christians already. We do thank you for your concern, but it seems that you’re projecting your experience onto every Catholic on these forums. Just because you missed Jesus in the Catholic Church doesn’t mean He isn’t there.
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Gamera
Guest
Are you under the impression that Catholics believe we can “earn” admission to heaven by good works? Catholics don’t believe that. That’s a heresy called pelagianism which the Catholic Chuch condemned over a thousand years ago.
What do you mean by Jesus’ “finished work?” Do you believe Jesus’ work is “finished”? I don’t. Jesus works in my life every day. His suffering and death are finished, of course, as He said on the cross — not His work, which is ongoing in the heart of every Christian. We Catholics don’t believe our personal relationship with Jesus is “finished.” On the contrary, it is the center of our daily lives.
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Pixie_Dust
Guest
Yeah, except the jailer in Acts 16 very likely never read 1 Peter or Ephesians. Paul baptized him, he didn’t give him a red-letter edition KJV.
I see you’ve bought the un-Biblical “ask Jesus into your heart” definition of being born again instead of reading what the Bible actually says. We are born again in baptism.
Ditto what Gamera said - Jesus is still working through me, and He’s not finished yet!
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dzheremi
Guest
Reading through this thread I am remembering the yearning for deep understanding of historical, apostolic Christianity that I craved as a young Protestant. I suppose if you are comfortable as a “saved” person, then that is enough for you, but it wasn’t for me. I certainly do agree that Jesus Christ is Lord and Savior, but I do not think it ends there. To call sacraments like baptism, confirmation, and reconciliation and the others, which are Bibilically-based, “man-made rituals” is the height of folly. When Christ commanded in Matthew 28:19 to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, was He speaking just empty words? Was it symbolic only?
I see a lot of people, both Protestant and Catholic, who seem content to acknowledge Jesus’ divinity in the same way that they recognize that the sky is blue or that fire is hot. “OF COURSE Jesus is Lord…He said so, and I believe it, so I am pretty sure I’m on the right side of things”. Well, yes…it is good that we recognize this truth, but after we’ve accepted this, then what? From the examples I grew up with in the Presbyterian church, either a lot or not much of anything. The trouble is in that variance. One Protestant group will tell you this, another group will tell you that, and everyone’s interpretation can fit somewhere, in some denomination or splinter group. So the idea that Protestants follow God while Catholics follow an evil, un-Christlike Church or whatever does not wash with me. We both follow Christ through our affiliation with our respective churches. The difference is that in one case (the Catholic and Orthodox case), the Church is anchored in and a continuation of 2000 years of history tracing back to the apostles, while in the other (the Protestant case), the churches are the product of sometimes very short (and at max, not terribly long, given the timeline of Christianity) histories and radical divergences in theology and practice.
Honestly, there is not much in Protestantism that I can see other than man’s own conviction that he knows with absolute certainty the matter of God with his own heart, Jeremiah 17:9 be damned! Where are Protestant mysteries? Where is Protestant humility? Where is Protestant asceticism?
I see a lot of people, both Protestant and Catholic, who seem content to acknowledge Jesus’ divinity in the same way that they recognize that the sky is blue or that fire is hot. “OF COURSE Jesus is Lord…He said so, and I believe it, so I am pretty sure I’m on the right side of things”. Well, yes…it is good that we recognize this truth, but after we’ve accepted this, then what? From the examples I grew up with in the Presbyterian church, either a lot or not much of anything. The trouble is in that variance. One Protestant group will tell you this, another group will tell you that, and everyone’s interpretation can fit somewhere, in some denomination or splinter group. So the idea that Protestants follow God while Catholics follow an evil, un-Christlike Church or whatever does not wash with me. We both follow Christ through our affiliation with our respective churches. The difference is that in one case (the Catholic and Orthodox case), the Church is anchored in and a continuation of 2000 years of history tracing back to the apostles, while in the other (the Protestant case), the churches are the product of sometimes very short (and at max, not terribly long, given the timeline of Christianity) histories and radical divergences in theology and practice.
Honestly, there is not much in Protestantism that I can see other than man’s own conviction that he knows with absolute certainty the matter of God with his own heart, Jeremiah 17:9 be damned! Where are Protestant mysteries? Where is Protestant humility? Where is Protestant asceticism?
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jmcrae
Guest
We are speaking here of the Early Church - their RCIA was seven years long before they were even allowed to start attending Mass.
There is no possibility that there were any “unsaved” or non-Christian random bystanders in any of these congregations that St. Paul was writing to and speaking to.
It was not like today, where anyone who wants to can just show up for a Church service or for a Mass - they needed trustworthy sponsors, and they had to be fully known to the community before they could begin to participate in it.
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benedictus2
Guest
Perhaps it was too bright with Christ’s light in the Catholic Church so vichlopet decided to come in with thick black blindfold to stop the glare, and then concluded that it was too dark in there
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Zooey
Guest
Yeah? Am I supposed to be surprised??
Ye dinnae know me, yean. Ye dinnae know one single thing about me.
Ye dinnae know anyone on these forums.
But ye hae the nerve to
stand in judgment on all of us??? http://bestsmileys.com/nono/3.gifhttp://bestsmileys.com/nono/2.gifShame on ye, laddie. http://bestsmileys.com/nono/2.gif Shame on ye.
Hey,you all, has anybody got the pool started yet, for how long before our friend gets the http://bestsmileys.com/kick/2.gif???
I’d hurry; its not looking like a long career of
“edification”.
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Good_Fella
Guest
Thing;4233552:
And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them saying “This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me.”
Luke 22, 19
and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, "This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me. In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant of my blood; do this whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me.”
1 Corinthians 11, 24-25
The translation of our Lords words of consecration is ‘touto poieiti tan eman anamnasin’ which literally means “offer this as my memorial sacrifice.” Jesus expects the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass to be celebrated time and time again until he returns.
This memorial sacrifice instituted by Christ is not merely a memorial sacrifice of a past event, the sacrifice of the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world, but a past event made present in time. Our Lord’s sacrifice is not repeated by substitutional sacrifices during the celebration of the Holy Eucharist but is made present at each celebration over and over again as the one sacrificial offering to the Father in and through Christ.
Alas, you have severed yourself from the greatest source of God’s grace in and through Christ: The Holy Eucharist.
Ritualistic formulas and actions originate from Christ through the Holy Spirit and they represent spiritual truths and realities. There is no such thing as vain and meaningless repetition in the administration of the sacraments and the celebration of the Mass.
PAX
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Mickey
Guest
You are sadly mistaken. It is not my personal opinion or subjective view. The truth is not a personal opinion. The truth is not a subjective view.
Let no one deceive himself (cf. 1 Cor. 6:9; Gal. 6:7; James 1:16): anyone who is not within the altar (Hebrews 13:10) does not have the bread of God (cf. John 6:33; 1 Cor. 9:13; 10:18). For if the prayer of one or two (cf. Matthew 18:19) has such power as we are told, how much more powerful shall be that of the bishop and the whole church together!
St. Ignatius of Antioch
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Mickey
Guest
How do you “get born again”.
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Mickey
Guest
Oh please! Must you continue to insult Jesus Christ? This is so unlike you reen. Are you feeling okay?
Jesus waited for this gentile woman to show her great faith as an example to the apostles and to the world. He waited for the woman to let her virtues shine!
If you are going to continue with your bashing–perhaps you should move on to other threads.
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fellowChristian
Guest
What about two verses down? Look guys I found a work!
Acts 16: 33
And he took them that very hour of the night and washed their wounds, and immediately he was baptized, he and all his household.
If he believed and that was it, why baptise? and what about…
**James 2:19 **
19You believe that God is one You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.
So is the devil saved too?
forgive me if this was already said.
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wina
Guest
I’m still waiting for the answer??
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cazayoux
Guest
There is more that must be DONE, though, at least according to the bible.
While we are justified by Christ alone, we are expected to follow this with what we are told to DO. God has set aside work for us to DO. If we do them, we keep the salvation that was freely given us. If we do not do them, we might lose that salvation (as Paul taught).
Again, you can’t just pick one verse to define your theology, you need to use the entire bible.
Let’s see what the bible says.
As a Catholic, I believe what the Bible says in terms of what one must do in order to get to Heaven …
Have faith (Rom 3:28, John 3:16, 1 John 4:15)
forgive the sins of others (Matt 6:14-15)
care for one’s family (1 Tim 5:8)
feed the hungry, clothe the naked, visit the sick and imprisoned (Matt 25:31-46)
keep the Commandments (Matt 19:17 and 1 John 2:3-4)
love my brother (1 John 2:10)
deny ourselves and pick up our cross daily (Luke 9:23)
do the will of the Father (Matt 7:21)
eat the flesh and drink the blood of the Son of Man (John 6:51-58)
give a return for the talents the Master has given us (Matt 25:14-30)
be baptized (John 3:3-5, 1 Ptr 3:20-21)
confess our sins (1 John 1:9)…
all by the grace of God.
While ‘accepting Jesus into your heart’ is absolutely necessary, it is not the only thing the bible says is necessary.
Would you agree that if you repent (and get born again), but do not ‘eat the flesh and drink the blood of the son of man’ then you have no life in you?
You see works as a result of the faith as if it isn’t something we have to choose to do.
Do you see that faith without works is (a) not real faith or (b) dead faith?
michel
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Thing
Guest
- He said: Masters, what must I do, that I may be saved?
He that believeth and is baptized, shall be saved
Let us go on to things more perfect, . . . of the doctrine of baptisms, and imposition of hands
Peter said to them: Do penance: and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of your sins.
Confess therefore your sins one to another: and pray one for another, that you may be saved.
This is my body . . . this is my blood, do this for a commemoration of me. For my flesh is meat indeed: and my blood is drink indeed. Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you.
They therefore that received his word were baptized: And they were persevering in the doctrine of the apostles and in the communication of the breaking of bread and in prayers.
But he that shall persevere unto the end, he shall be saved.
Who then can be saved?
But he that shall endure unto the end, he shall be saved.
Who then can be saved?
But he that shall persevere to the end, he shall be saved.
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churchcamefirst
Guest
There are many different bible verses here from several bibles…
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