I was wondering....do eastern catholics?

[jimmy]

Why didn’t the Fathers teach that infants can be prayed out of limbo (theorized as the highest, painless level of hell) or hell (for those that didn’t teach limbo)? You might find some people on the fringe that teach what you have said but, that is far and few in between. Read the councils that dealt with Purgatory.

You missed the whole point of my post. You portrayed purgatory as a logically necessary consequence of praying for the dead. That is purely false, and the fact that certain saints had other ideas for why the Church prays for the dead shows how false it is.

Purgatory follows from the concept of retributive justice. In other words, some sins must punished. This is a western concept, and it in no way follows from prayers for the dead. It is a seperate and independant premise.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Ah I see, so we shall ignore Our Lady, an approved apparition to suit our own theological fancies? That is odd.

It is odd that when a revelation is given to us from heaven, and does not suit our conveinence we say ‘‘oh the Church says we don’t have to believe in it.’’ and when a revelation comes also from a non-approved apparition we instead say ‘‘it is not approved of by the Church’’ in order not to believe. All simplicity gets thrown out the window for the sake of our own desires.

Anyway, with Byzcantors pointing out of Bl.Pope John Paul II, why is it a problem that we believe in purgatory? Its part of our faith and morals.

What is odd is that you are making a claim that doctrine and dogma can come from apparitions when the Church herself does not say that.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Why not?

It is like saying we use American culture to define Chinese life in China.

 

[Joyceiah]

The Orthodox and Catholic Churches were one and the same until they separated from one another in 1054 mainly over the role of the Pope.

find more information

 

[ConstantineTG]

And?

 

[Seamus_L]

Back to the original question. While I doubt there have been any surveys taken, I’d feel pretty confident in suggesting that a significant percentage of Eastern Catholics believe in Purgatory in the same sense that Latin Catholics do.

 

[ByzCathCantor]

Back to the original question. While I doubt there have been any surveys taken, I’d feel pretty confident in suggesting that a significant percentage of Eastern Catholics believe in Purgatory in the same sense that Latin Catholics do.

And if that could be ascertained with some certainty, should that condition go unaddressed?

 

[ConstantineTG]

Back to the original question. While I doubt there have been any surveys taken, I’d feel pretty confident in suggesting that a significant percentage of Eastern Catholics believe in Purgatory in the same sense that Latin Catholics do.

The same way that a significant percentage of Roman Catholics use ABCs. This does not change what the truth of the praxis is.

 

[Seamus_L]

Do you mean, If EC’s believe in Purgatory in a Latin sense, they should stop ?

 

[ConstantineTG]

Do you mean, If EC’s believe in Purgatory in a Latin sense, they should stop ?

Definitely. Spirituality is a package, you can’t pick and choose bits and pieces. Every bit of it paints the entire picture of our faith. A faith that has developed over 2000 years.

 

[ByzCathCantor]

Do you mean, If EC’s believe in Purgatory in a Latin sense, they should stop ?

Not suggesting that anyone should “stop”, per se, as there should be some advantage to being both Eastern and Catholic - both viewpoints should be understood and respected. However, if a majority of Eastern Catholics are indeed uncatechized with respect to the traditional Eastern view of purgation, Theosis, ,etc., should that condition continue unaddressed? And should ECs gravitate toward an understanding of such that is rooted primarily in the theological perspective of their own Church?

 

[Seamus_L]

If you really believe that Constantine, I can assure you that you’re in for some major disappointments, because I think you are very seriously under estimating how strong the attachments many Eastern Catholics have for what I prefer to call universal devotions.

 

[Cyrillic]

If you really believe that Constantine, I can assure you that you’re in for some major disappointments, because I think you are very seriously under estimating how strong the attachments many Eastern Catholics have for what I prefer to call universal devotions.

So you’re just saying that they like their latinizations and should keep them?

 

[malphono]

… I think you are very seriously under estimating how strong the attachments many Eastern Catholics have for what I prefer to call universal devotions.

Before I consider chiming-in, please allow me to ask for a few examples of what you mean.

 

[Seamus_L]

Same as always Malphono Rosary, belief in Purgatory, Fatima, Sacred Heart, Immaculate Heart of Mary, Stations of the Cross, etc.

 

[lssanjose]

Same as always Malphono Rosary, belief in Purgatory, Fatima, Sacred Heart, Immaculate Heart of Mary, Stations of the Cross, etc.

Well, I’m lucky, then. Haven’t had these occur at the Byzantine church I’ve been going to. If I could afford it, I’d take out the pews, but it would be subjected to a congregational vote, as we do have senior people, there.

 

[Cyrillic]

Same as always Malphono Rosary, belief in Purgatory, Fatima, Sacred Heart, Immaculate Heart of Mary, Stations of the Cross, etc.

And these things are “universal”?

 

[lssanjose]

And these things are “universal”?

If you peruse for Latinizations, there are sites detailing what occurred, when the Rusyn Greek Catholics arrived in the United States. Pretty much stemmed from a misplaced inferiority complex… Anyone is free to correct me on these very generic statements.

 

[Cyrillic]

If you peruse for Latinizations, there are sites detailing what occurred, when the Rusyn Greek Catholics arrived in the United States. Pretty much stemmed from a misplaced inferiority complex… Anyone is free to correct me on these very generic statements.

It was a retorical question

 

[malphono]

Same as always Malphono Rosary, belief in Purgatory, Fatima, Sacred Heart, Immaculate Heart of Mary, Stations of the Cross, etc.

OK, that’s what I expected to see. And now I will chime-in.

First off, though, I daresay that “belief in purgatory” is not exactly a “devotion” as are the others, and I will not address it.

As for the actual devotions (on the list and otherwise), it’s a qualified “yes.” One has to bear in mind that, (with the exception of the Rosary which, itself, can claim to have “Eastern roots”), the various devotional practices that were imported by (or, in some cases, imposed on) the East and Orient have, in most cases, taken on forms which differ, in greater or lesser part, from those used in the Latin Church. Hence, it seems to me that calling any of them “universal” is quite a stretch.

One can say, however, that some or all of those practices have been “incorporated” into by the various Eastern & Oriental Churches (in some cases even by the Orthodox), and have become additions to their (our) own spiritual repertoire. IMO, this is, in and of itself, not a bad thing, provided it does not supplant authentic practices. OTOH, it does get dicey in those cases where the “imported” devotion is used in lieu of traditional and authentic Eastern/Oriental practices.