I would be more "open to life" if I could get my tubes tied!

[TheRealJuliane]

Aww…Thanks

My first marriage was I think seriously damaged by this issue, and ABC in general.

I am re-married now…my wife was not catholic when we met, and was fully supportive of ABC. She wasn’t sure if God even existed. She leaned towards pro-abortion. I’ll never forget asking the Holy Spirit for the courage and right words to suggest NFP to her. I did not know ANYTHING about it…just that it really is the ONLY approved option for catholics. By the grace of God…our eyes were opened, her eyes were opened!! She converted and was confirmed 2 years ago, understands the damage that ABC can cause in a marriage and sees abortion for the evil that it is. NFP has brought us SO much closer together. Kid #4 was not ‘planned’, but NFP really works. We totally knew what most likely would happen last September 5th (yes…it works that well) and, well, there y’go. We are open to life and I sure never thought after 2 older boys and a failed marriage that I’d be a father to 2 MORE kids and have a wonderful marriage to boot.

Honestly, I’m sorry that you are getting a bunch of guff from some of the people on here. I’m a little wary of people with like 10 bazillion postings anyways because…well y’know. They are not all PhD’s. Some I think are bitter and unhappy and spend too much time on the internet.

LaSainte… I will continue to pray for you and your family. Especially your husband. NFP really has worked for us. Learn about it and pray and maybe (more than maybe) the Holy Spirit will guide you and your family along and give you the graces and peace of mind necessary to persevere. It CAN happen! Sins and regret are more damaging to the family than kids after all!!

Would you like to make that distinction to our virtual faces? Or just make a snide insult without quantifying it?

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

Thanks MaryGail! We are going to try Marquette. A friend gave us the monitor to help us GET pregnant, and you can see what happened there, haha! Here’s hoping it works the other way around. Expensive, but hopefully I will get more peace of mind with the machine rhan if I just had to trust my own observations. I don’t really have time to take classes or anything unfortunately, so I will be going pretty much entirely based on the machine and not on the other signs-yikes!

By the way, you have always been very kind to me even when we have disagreed and I appreciate it immensely. You are a wonderful example of a kind Catholoc wiman and I would be willing to bet you have brought more than one soul to God.

Hmm, If I remember correctly, Marquette can be learned online (I looked at the manual recently from the site) If you already have the monitor–then it should be easier.

Thank you for the compliment. I’m not all *that *good, but thank you the same.

 

[Armor_of_Light]

Would you like to make that distinction to our virtual faces? Or just make a snide insult without quantifying it?

1. my opinion…clearly stated as such.
2. Most people do not have a PhD so I’m safe in that assumption.
3. 10 bazillion is not even close to your number, so relax

PM if you want and I’ll tell you the backstory behind all of this…

 

[jilly4ski]

Would you like to make that distinction to our virtual faces? Or just make a snide insult without quantifying it?

lol, that actually kind of funny. I joined CAF (specifically the pregnant mamas thread) because I was lonely and scared, pregnant with my first child, a honeymoon baby, 1000 miles away from family, and going to school. I don’t have a PHD, but I do have a doctorate.

Again I don’t think we are all reading the same posts. I have not read (or there was only one or two) which suggested that the OP should have as many kids as possible or more than she thinks she can handle. We have questioned her absolute number, because it seems based on a false understanding of large families. We are trying to show the OP that she is operating based on a false understanding, both about what NFP is (that having 3 children will somehow equal having 4 children) and what large families consist of (normal people living normal lives). We have been advocating active discernment instead of deciding now and forever.

LaSainte, your terminology was insulting. You equated improper motives (“bigger is better” and “bandwagon”) of having children to people you have never met and don’t know why they have large families. Indeed most people posting on this thread don’t even have a large family by any stretch of the imagination. RJ has 2, I have 2 with one on the way. Not to mention no one has suggested that you must have a large family. indeed your age alone would probably inhibit you from having a large family even if you desired it. My mother always wanted a large family and ended up having 6 children. But she only had 3 live children in her thirties and none in her forties. The only reason she got 3 was because my little brother and sister were twins. (She also lost 3 children, 2 miscarriages and 1 ectopic, in her thirties).

 

[agapewolf]

Thanks MaryGail! Expensive, but hopefully I will get more peace of mind with the machine rhan if I just had to trust my own observations. I don’t really have time to take classes or anything unfortunately, so I will be going pretty much entirely based on the machine and not on the other signs-yikes!

Then you can plan on getting pregnant, and more than once. This is NOT using NFP. This is NOT using the Marquette method.

every other sign besides cm is only to confirm what the original sign is, NOT to replace it.

 

[heart4home]

Then you can plan on getting pregnant, and more than once. This is NOT using NFP. This is NOT using the Marquette method.

every other sign besides cm is only to confirm what the original sign is, NOT to replace it.

And then she’ll be able to say that NFP didn’t work for her and come on and share with others who are seriously interested in learning NFP, how it doesn’t work…sigh

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

She hasn’t taken the course yet or seen the manual.

She knows that a monitor is required…let’s give her a chance to learn the method.

 

[agapewolf]

She hasn’t taken the course yet or seen the manual.

She knows that a monitor is required…let’s give her a chance to learn the method.

She already said she wasn’t going to.

I don’t really have time to take classes or anything unfortunately, so I will be going pretty much entirely based on the machine and not on the other signs-yikes!

 

[heart4home]

She already said she wasn’t going to.

Her attitude as expressed through her words in many of her replies does not seem to reflect one of somebody who truly wants to be open to life, use Church approprate teachings etc, but rather one who wants everybody to sympathize with her. It almost seems like she wants us all to say the Church is so wrong, and that what they are asking is just too much of her.

I just can’t fathom the idea that one would choose to avoid having a third child they say they very much want, because one day down the road NFP might fail, especially when they’ve never even made any effort and seem to be saying they aren’t going to, to learn a reliable method of NFP.

Her plight as I have previous said, is no different than that of many many Catholics who wish to be faithful to Church teachings and yet have reasons to limit family size. Even those with life threatening conditions. So honestly I’m not really sure what her point in any of this is??

 

[The_Bucket]

Actually, I understand the concept. It’s this:

“I really want three kids, but only three kids. And I can’t plan on having a third because what happens if I get pregnant again? I have to only have two and have ‘room for error’ because there’s no way I can have four. I can only plan for three if I can make sure I DEFINITELY only have three.”

Theology aside the biggest fault in this line of reasoning is reality. This is not a judgment on people who desire small families, think they can only handle small families or whatever. It’s a reality that there are failure rates for absolutely everything other than total abstinence or sterilization methods that go way beyond what is generally done.

And then of course there is the problem of reality striking in other ways as I laid out earlier. Job loss. Illness by another family member. Long-term injury that requires extensive care. A disability discovered in an existing child. The list goes on.

Total control is not achievable. I’m gratified to see the OP being more receptive to other posts and looking into Marquette. You need to learn the method though. Generally it takes some time and erring on the conservative side for awhile. But it is generally not like attending night school or anything like that. Think of it as a hobby in terms of the time required to learn it. Given the activities involved in learning how the methods are effective and seeing those results, it can on many occasions be a quite enjoyable hobby, no?

 

[Melchior_1]

If I get pregnant after having my tubes tied, I shall buy a lottery ticket.

Say that to my mother.

 

[LaSainte]

Hmm, If I remember correctly, Marquette can be learned online (I looked at the manual recently from the site) If you already have the monitor–then it should be easier.

Thank you for the compliment. I’m not all *that *good, but thank you the same.

Thanks Mary Gail! I checked online and they do have a manual and they are also looking for 50-100 couples to chart with their online tool and to use their forums and nurse and doctor advice on the method free for 6 months! So I signed up and will try to learn it that way.

To everyone else, thanks for the charitable remarks and for assuming the best.

 

[28562]

Thanks Mary Gail! I checked online and they do have a manual and they are also looking for 50-100 couples to chart with their online tool and to use their forums and nurse and doctor advice on the method free for 6 months! So I signed up and will try to learn it that way.

To everyone else, thanks for the charitable remarks and for assuming the best.

Do you have a link to where it says they are looking for couples for this study?

 

[LaSainte]

Do you have a link to where it says they are looking for couples for this study?

Go here and register for the forum and that should do it!

It will give you a questionnaire to fill out and a user name.

nfp.marquette.edu/forum/

 

[ryecroft]

Nothing insulting about it. There is a group mentality here on CAF that bigger families are necessarily better or more full of blessings than smaller ones. Small families are looked on with pity at best and distain at worst for the most part. A family with only 2 kids must either mean the parents were stricken with infertility, had some children who didn’t make it, there is some major illness or crisis preventing them from having more children, or they are simply incredibly selfish.

It never occurs to anyone here that a small family might be a wonderful thing for some people and that not all couples are called to have many children.

One size does not fit all and people’s choices need to be respected, especially when those people are acting in conformity with Church teaching and doing the best they can to live a Christian life.

:thumbsup:you’re right you don’t have to have a bunch of kids to have a wonderful, blessed life, even if you are able to have 6 or 8 or more. I will never believe that just because a family has more than 3 children that they are less blessed than one with many more. Some families are happy with 2 and work well…there is no teaching saying you have to have as many kids as you can…if you and your spouse feel one or two or whatever number are the number you can handle you don’t need to feel required to have more. I really hope you’re able to enjoy those you have… I will always believe when you feel you can only be responsible for a certain number of kids be that zero or twelve that that’s how many you should stop at. Better to have two wonderfully cared for kids with a content and happy set of parents than twice that number with parents who are completely stressed and miserable all the time. (Not saying that larger families are all this way…nothing disparaging meant about ANY size family)
God bless,
Rye

 

[ryecroft]

And then she’ll be able to say that NFP didn’t work for her and come on and share with others who are seriously interested in learning NFP, how it doesn’t work…sigh

You make it sound like everyone on here nfp hasn’t worked for and come on here to talk about how it didn’t work has obviously not taken time to learn the method…may be true for some but not for all of us. Yes it works wonderfully much of the time but there are many cases where nfp has been unsuccessful with the most conservative, educated users. Not al of us come on here, say we’ve tried nfp (without really having studied it) and then begun trading about it not working. Sometimes, with the best of use, pregnancy occurs while using nfp.
God ble

 

[Z1Z2]

Wow. Those people are NUTS? Infants are horrible?

I’m speechless at your comments.

The baby stage IS awful for some parents! Ever have an infant with reflux so bad she won’t eat? (14.5 lbs at 1 year) Ever have a child with so many doctors’ appointments the first year that only now, years later, do you have enough vacation time to actualy TAKE a vacation? Ever have a child who did not sleep through the night until kindergarten? I could go on and on. Just because infancy was fun for YOU does not make it a universal experience!! I am speechless at your rush to judge things you likely don’t have the first bit of experience in.

 

[SwizzleStick]

Wow. Those people are NUTS? Infants are horrible?

I’m speechless at your comments.
Z1Z2;9298749:

The baby stage IS awful for some parents! Ever have an infant with reflux so bad she won’t eat? (14.5 lbs at 1 year) Ever have a child with so many doctors’ appointments the first year that only now, years later, do you have enough vacation time to actualy TAKE a vacation? Ever have a child who did not sleep through the night until kindergarten? I could go on and on. Just because infancy was fun for YOU does not make it a universal experience!! I am speechless at your rush to judge things you likely don’t have the first bit of experience in.

I didn’t rush to judge anything. What I did was express shock at the word choice. Your word choice of “The baby stage IS awful for some parents!” is quite a different statement than “Infants are horrible!,” which is the word choice LaSainte used. I recognize that she is exhausted and stressed and I offered prayer. (See my post quoted below.) I also recognize that the infant stage is difficult and maybe even awful for some parents, but the statement “Infants are horrible!” was a bit shocking to me when I read it and I expressed my shock. Why are you angry at that? I’m sorry that is your reaction, there is really no need for that.

No, but I do understand a little bit. I did have a colicky baby that didn’t sleep well, but he did sleep some. He very consistently cried and screamed for about 3 hours straight every night from about 3 weeks old to about 4 months old.

My daughter climbed out of her crib during her nap one day at 18-months old. She never had another nap once she moved to her big girl bed. My son was born when she was 2. She used to get up in the middle of the night and sit beside me as I nursed him so I had to get both of them back to bed and back to sleep. None of my kids ever slept much. I was a bit envious of my sister’s kids who took 3 and 4 hour naps EVERY DAY. I couldn’t believe it when hers slept half the day away when mine didn’t nap or sleep much at all. Ever. Even at night. The older two are sleeping a bit more than when they were little now that they are teens, go figure. (I know that isn’t unusual, teens need a lot of rest.)

I think you are very stressed and just exhausted. I do remember that you have had concerns or taken issue with the Church’s teachings on contraception/sterilization/NFP for quite awhile, so I’m sure that doesn’t help your stress level. In any event, I do hope your little one sleeps through the night soon so you can get some rest and that that helps reduce your stress level. I’ll pray for you and your family.

…Just because infancy was fun for YOU does not make it a universal experience!! …

Actually, I don’t remember if infancy was fun for me because, first of all, I was an infant, and second of all, it was quite awhile ago for me.



Sorry. I couldn’t resist. A bit of levity never hurts.

 

[Z1Z2]

Your word choice of “The baby stage IS awful for some parents!” is quite a different statement than “Infants are horrible!,”

yes, different word choice, but I am giving LaSainte the benefit of the doubt as to whether our meaning is the same.

Why are you angry at that?

Because I sympathize with women who don’t love every minute of taking care of infants, and I gave her the benefit if the doubt as to her meaning.

I’m sorry that is your reaction, there is really no need for that.

No need for what? To express my opinion? If you can express an opinion, how come I can’t?

 

[SwizzleStick]

yes, different word choice, but I am giving LaSainte the benefit of the doubt as to whether our meaning is the same. …

Words have meaning. The two statements were very different.

…Because I sympathize with women who don’t love every minute of taking care of infants, and I gave her the benefit if the doubt as to her meaning. …

I took her words to be pretty harsh, though I realize they were probably chosen due to stress and exhaustion.

…No need for what? To express my opinion? If you can express an opinion, how come I can’t?

No need for anger. I thought I was clear. You posted an angry face.

… Why are you angry at that? I’m sorry that is your reaction, there is really no need for that. …