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aloe
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How is this? You said you would try for one more if the baby was a girl, so why not go ahead for one more little soul?
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TheRealJuliane
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Your post makes me want to give you a big hug. Seriously, it does. I am so sorry that you have been so tired, and it sounds like you fought through a depression all on your own. That would make any woman not want future kids.
It’s hard for me to understand because I love kids so much. In my life, my husband had a hard time with the 2 we had - he doesn’t have a mellow temperament, perhaps like you. The noise, the mess, the chaos - very challenging for him. For me, who cares…I just love the little beasts, could have had 10 but we started way late in life. So that’s my perspective…
I won’t argue with you about your points. By the time your kids are ready for college, the cost could actually be lower, depending on a thousand social conditions. I personally believe that the trend will be back toward skilled tradesmen, but that’s a gamble.
Hey, whatever happened to working your own way through college?
I did it and a ton of kids are doing it right now.But anyway, just wanted to say, hugs to you.
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LaSainte
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Yes, I may have to send my kids to college. How many kids do you think get scholarships? Academic scholarships even to state schools are almost non-existent anymore. Athletic scholarships? Well first I have to be able to afford to put them into sports. Our financial planner said that by the time my kids go to college, it will cost $400,000 to send them to a STATE school - EACH. My husband makes too much money for them to get scholarships based on financial hardship and they are white males. You do the math.
As far as activities go, I never said my kids have be in every single one, but I think putting each child in ONE sport or activity that they enjoy and excel at is a reasonable goal. One day of gymnastics a week at the beginning level (age 1) costs $70 a month. When I was a gymnast, at an advanced level, 25 hours a week, it was $500 a month, plus leotards, uniforms, private lessons when needed, and plane tickets and hotel stays and meet fees for away meets. If any of my children excel at a sport or an instrument, i think of it as my job as a responsible parent to help them to take it as far as their talent and drive goes.
I’m not throwing it in God’s face at all. I think God (unlike most people here) respects my individuality and my particular parental values. I don’t think God has any problem with my choices, I just think it is a little sad that I may not have another child because I can’t risk having more than 3.
I’m not counting on NFP to fail at all. I truly hope it doesn’t, because If it does, I or my husband will most likely be sterilized. So given my situation, the ideal would be for NFP to work and for me not to have any more kids, although part of me is sad I will probably never have a girl.
By the way, I don’t believe this has been infallibly taught, but I try to follow Church teaching out of discipline and respect and in order to remain in communion.
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LaSainte
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Thank you so much for this, really
Your post makes me want to give you a big hug. Seriously, it does. I am so sorry that you have been so tired, and it sounds like you fought through a depression all on your own. That would make any woman not want future kids.
It’s hard for me to understand because I love kids so much. In my life, my husband had a hard time with the 2 we had - he doesn’t have a mellow temperament, perhaps like you. The noise, the mess, the chaos - very challenging for him. For me, who cares…I just love the little beasts, could have had 10 but we started way late in life. So that’s my perspective…
I won’t argue with you about your points. By the time your kids are ready for college, the cost could actually be lower, depending on a thousand social conditions. I personally believe that the trend will be back toward skilled tradesmen, but that’s a gamble.
Hey, whatever happened to working your own way through college?
But anyway, just wanted to say, hugs to you.
. So cool how much you love kids. Yes, I’m like your husband. I cannot stand messes and chaos, and I do get very depressed post-partum, so that with the exhaustion is really bad. My 2nd still gets up 5 or 6 times a night to eat at 8 months, but hopefully this will end soon! Thanks for the kind words.
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heart4home
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I’m confused by your post…
Yes, you are right the only thing you can do is practice NFP from now until you are no longer fertile. Just like every other faithful Catholic couple that wishes to follow God’s plan for marriage/sex.
You aren’t in some sort of unique position that is any different than the rest of us. It seems that the majority of Catholics choose to stop at 3 or 4 children. So they are either cheating and using artificial birth control or they are using NFP like you and still being open to life when they choose to engage in sex.
We have chosen to be completely open to life and don’t really use NFP and yes we have a large family. Yes, we have to put them through college and yes my husband makes too much for any kind of grants.
You know yourself better than any of us, but it makes me smile that you think that in a few years when your kids are older that things can’t change or that your attitude won’t be different. You truly have no possible way of knowing what you will think in a few years or how you’ll feel. None of us do.
But the absolute beauty of NFP is that in a few years if you do have a change of heart, win the lottery, get left an inheritance or whatever else and decide you’d love another baby, you won’t have ruined your chances by having had a tubal.
If you choose to go without a third child because you can’t take the chance of a fourth then that will be a great loss. Something to think about…What if after number one you had believed that you could only at the most handle two children. Would you have been willing to have missed out on your second child for the same reason you are willing to miss out on the little person that could be your third?
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Eleanor61
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I just find it odd that you would be complaining so much about the finances and then pursuing such an effete and useless graduate degree. And yes, I know what I am talking about as my daughter decided not to pursue offered fellowships in French Enlightenment history because of this very reason. If you are worried about paying for your children’s activities and education, why not prepare yourself for an employable and well paying position?
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samiam1611
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Yeah that is ironic! I totally get what you’re saying.
I read from time to time people who use NFP having “what the heck” babies. Perhaps that would be a good attitude/way to practice NFP for you? Abstain when you are definitely fertile but if you guys really feel like it on a day that is like borderline safe, you could take a risk - since you are “open to life” it would be an acceptable risk. It would be a pleasant surprise if you got pregnant yet not a huge disappointment if you didn’t, bc, hey, you weren’t really trying.
That’s what I would do if I were you. :twocents: I mean, you hear all the time on these forums about people who are stressing out about NFP working (I sometimes, not always, get the impression there is a contraceptive mindset from these people) but you really are open to life so just chart, and avoid for now, just stay open to life every month and maybe you will end up with one of those “what the heck” babies. Hopefully just one
and hopefully a girl. :curtsey:Best wishes.
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agapewolf
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You are coming up with excuses and answers for everything.
Your kids could still get grants AND financial aid, and work through school. Lots of people do it and don’t have mommy and daddy paying their way.
Your kids could still get grants AND financial aid, and work through school. Lots of people do it and don’t have mommy and daddy paying their way.
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TheRealJuliane
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You still have a young baby! You’re in the worst stage. It only gets better from here. Your little one will be mobile at some point, and hopefully your older one is already helping and cares about Baby. Eventually they will be very good friends and will play together…I hope you can see your way clear to add at least another one. Almost no one ever regrets having more children but a lot of us do regret NOT having more.Thank you so much for this, really
Surely your little one is on solids by now? He/she really does not need nutrition any more at night. Is this a bad habit that you could start interrupting? It sounds like what you need is a way to get that little one on a better sleep schedule. I know that when I don’t get my sleep, I am a wreck!
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Allegra
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While I don’t think you should strive for more children right now, given how overwhelmed you seem in your posts, I hope I can offer you some assurance that the cost of college is not going to go anywhere near $400G. Many schools are already pricing themselves out of an incoming class as it is. No doubt, it isn’t going to get any cheaper and will probably go up more than we’d like. There are also plenty of opportunities for scholarships, both at the university and from other sources. If your children elected to spend some of their planned 25 weekly hours of gymnastics time on volunteer work, they’d probably see their way to several kinds of scholarships that way.
On that subject, while it is admirable that you would want your children to take part in amusing and challenging activites, there are plenty of options that go nowhere near that extreme you are suggesting. Your ability to call yourself a responsible parent certainly doesn’t ride on your abilty to provide such over-priced and time-consuming gynmastics lessons. Even if you should beat the odds and manage to produce four such obsessed- I mean devoted- gymnastics pupils, it isn’t going to kill any child to hear the words “no” or “sorry, twice a week at the Y is all we can afford.” While, those pursuits are lovely and if you can provide them, you certainly should, they definatly don’t consitute loving parenting or replace a happy home life.
I guess my point is that there is no need for a hysterical panic here. Fear is one of the devil’s favorite tools to keep us from God’s plan. When I was a kid in school, we were made to watch videos about how the world’s exponential growth of human population was going to make the plannet uninhabitable before we reached the age of 25. This was meant to terrify us into using birth control before we were even old enough to know what it was! I remember being told that the responsible thing to do was to only have one child like they did in China. I remember thinking, how the heck was I supposed to do that? If you and your husband aren’t ready for more little darlings right now, by all means, keep up with the NFP. But rest assured that if God gives you a child, He will give you some means of parenting said child.
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LaSainte
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French professors can make $100,000 a year, but that is not really the point. The point is knowledge and a passion for the subject. Sorry, but after a while, Dora the Explorer make a
Mommy feel downright retarded. I am a good mom, I stay at home with my kids and practice attachment parenting and love my babies like you wouldn’t believe-but that’s not ways enough is it? I’m not going to feel guilty about the fact that I find it incredibly stimulating to discuss and analyze French poetry at length with the geniuses of the field in a classroom setting. Everyone should be able to have that feeling. For my husband, it’s fishing. I would never dream of asking him to give that up simply because of some arbitrary idea that more kids=better.
For some people, sitting around a dinner table with 8 kids all talking and passing around mashed potatoes and doing 4 loads of laundry a day is a dream come true. That’s wonderful. FOR THEM. For me, it would be walking through the Louvre with my husband and kids and chatting about the artistic masterpieces of the world followed by dinner on the Seine. Can’t do things like that with 4+ kids unless you’re a millionaire. I’m not just a breeder of little baby Catholics.
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Eleanor61
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And French professors are in how much demand? Are you such an exception to the ivy league liberal arts PhDs that have to go back to law or medical school to get a job, and I personally know several. Why does the real world only selectively impact your decisions?
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LaSainte
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Thank you!!! I like your adviceYeah that is ironic! I totally get what you’re saying.
I read from time to time people who use NFP having “what the heck” babies. Perhaps that would be a good attitude/way to practice NFP for you? Abstain when you are definitely fertile but if you guys really feel like it on a day that is like borderline safe, you could take a risk - since you are “open to life” it would be an acceptable risk. It would be a pleasant surprise if you got pregnant yet not a huge disappointment if you didn’t, bc, hey, you weren’t really trying.
That’s what I would do if I were you. :twocents: I mean, you hear all the time on these forums about people who are stressing out about NFP working (I sometimes, not always, get the impression there is a contraceptive mindset from these people) but you really are open to life so just chart, and avoid for now, just stay open to life every month and maybe you will end up with one of those “what the heck” babies. Hopefully just one
Best wishes.
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LaSainte
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Ues, we just started solids, but he is an independent little bugger and will NOT let me feed him. That means he can only eat what he can get into his mouth, which is almost nothing, haha! He’s getting more mobile now, thank God. Everybody looks at your baby when he’s an infant and says things like,“I MISS this stage so much!” those people are NUTS. infants are horrible!
I will probably start night-weaning soon, but he gets very upset when I try do put him back down without the breast. With my first, I transitioned him using a pacifier, but this one hates them, so it’s going to be harder. Oh the joys of infancy!
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LaSainte
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I told you, it’s not just about the money. If I could audit the classes, I would.
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SwizzleStick
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jilly4ski
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Lol, don’t go to law school you won’t get a job.
LaSainte, I think what everybody is trying to get across, is that you are stressed out tired and worried right now. So obviously right now is not a good time to think about having another child, your third or forth. (ie use NFP, which you have been doing and is great
). But as your children get a little older you will start to sleep through the night again, your children will become more self sufficient and less time consuming and it will just be less difficult. (then again, something might happen, you might end up taking care of a ill parent, or injured spouse or etc.). You don’t know how you will feel or what will come up in the future. So to some of us it seems silly to say, Never, No, or one more but no more, or etc. Because we have no idea what will happen in the future. This is what I was trying to get across as taking the children one at a time. When you don’t feel like you could handle another you avoid and when you are feeling good you are open to “what the heck” babies.This gets me sometimes as I am a big picture sort of person. Thinking about 20 years in the future in detail, or getting overwhelmed in everything that has to happen from now until then. Sometimes is scares the bejeezers out of me. Luckily my husband is sort of the opposite, and very laid back and is good at breaking problems down into little parts to make it manageable, and has really helped me to do this as well.
Another thing that I hear from old people a lot, is that when you look back on your life you will not regret the kids you had, but the family you didn’t have.
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LaSainte
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Well, personally, I think it would be tragic if my child had the potential to be an Olympic athlete, or a world-class violin player and I had to tell them “no, sorry” regarding their lessons. There is nothing in the world like being passionate about something you’re great at, like being able to do something maybe 10 people in the whole world can do, like setting a seemingly impossible goal and pushing yourself to your physical and emotional limits and then leaving those limits in the dust. The experience is indescribable and one evey child should have should they desire it.
I do agree that God will give a person SOME means of parenting their children, but I’m not looking to be a miserable martyr here. I just want a happy, average-sized family that can all go to Disney and out to eat once in awhile. I am just not a woman who likes or wants lots of kids, and call me crazy, but I want to be happy, not exhausted and miserable.
I don’t want to be one of those Dickensian families with nothing to eat on Christmas day but stewed turnips and a bunch of dirty kids sitting around the table, getting pitying glances from outsiders who say things like, “That poor family, but they have so much LOVE”. I don’t find that heartwarming, I find it irresponsible and stupid. I know I’m being dramatic here, but you get the point
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LaSainte
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Have you ever had a colicky baby that didn’t sleep, like, EVER at night? Add that to a 2-year-old who is up all day. Then imagine that the infant for whatever reason screams bloody murder every time you put him down. Now pretend this has been going on for 5 months. Yes, I cannot STAND infant babies. Now around the age of 6 months-wow, what a difference. But yes, anyone who can look me in the eye and say they miss THAT stage is a nutcase. There is not one single thing I miss about that stage. I cried almost every day. I even yelled at my baby a couple of times. I hated myself and I did not like my baby-loved him though. So…yeah. This has been my experience with both babies and people wonder why the idea of having like FOUR sounds so bad.
Wow. Those people are NUTS? Infants are horrible?
I’m speechless at your comments.
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LaSainte
Guest
I see what you mean. I have a hard time with taking things one child at a time. I like the idea of being “DONE” and taking a breather. I’m 35. I want to enjoy my retirement, not be raising my 6th kid at 55. I like the idea of finishing the job, giving the hubby a nice high five for a job well done and planning our cruise around the worldLol, don’t go to law school you won’t get a job.
LaSainte, I think what everybody is trying to get across, is that you are stressed out tired and worried right now. So obviously right now is not a good time to think about having another child, your third or forth. (ie use NFP, which you have been doing and is great
This gets me sometimes as I am a big picture sort of person. Thinking about 20 years in the future in detail, or getting overwhelmed in everything that has to happen from now until then. Sometimes is scares the bejeezers out of me. Luckily my husband is sort of the opposite, and very laid back and is good at breaking problems down into little parts to make it manageable, and has really helped me to do this as well.
Another thing that I hear from old people a lot, is that when you look back on your life you will not regret the kids you had, but the family you didn’t have.
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