I would be more "open to life" if I could get my tubes tied!

[TheRealJuliane]

I don’t want to be one of those Dickensian families with nothing to eat on Christmas day but stewed turnips and a bunch of dirty kids sitting around the table, getting pitying glances from outsiders who say things like, “That poor family, but they have so much LOVE”. I don’t find that heartwarming, I find it irresponsible and stupid. I know I’m being dramatic here, but you get the point

:bigyikes:

You really need to stop reading Dickens! That was the Industrial Revolution, we’re all done with that sort of misery! LOL

About the kids being super-talented and needing private lessons, etc.? Most kids aren’t. You shouldn’t plan for that kind of rare talent. Chances are good that your kids are just going to have ordinary amounts of talent at anything they try. They might have one or two areas of interest but sometimes if the kid is pushed too hard, the desire disappears anyway. Just try not to be thinking of worst-case scenarios 20 years down the road, OK?

 

[Allegra]

Well, personally, I think it would be tragic if my child had the potential to be an Olympic athlete, or a world-class violin player and I had to tell them “no, sorry” regarding their lessons. There is nothing in the world like being passionate about something you’re great at, like being able to do something maybe 10 people in the whole world can do, like setting a seemingly impossible goal and pushing yourself to your physical and emotional limits and then leaving those limits in the dust. The experience is indescribable and one evey child should have should they desire it.

The thing with doing things that only ten people in the world can do is…well…only ten people in the world can do them and the chances are pretty good that your kid isn’t one of them. Obviously, by virtue, it isn’t an experience that every kid can realistically have. It’s an experience that only ten kids can have out of millions and how many of those that did get there and sacrificed so much for it would trade it all in to have their childhood back? You are assuming an ambition in your children that most likely isn’t there. What would be truely tragic (and far more likely to be the case in our society) is when a young persons childhood (and that of his innocent siblings) are sacrificed entirely to the cause of making them some sort of star that they will never be. Believe me, you are not shirking your responsibilities if your kid doesn’t run in the olympics or star on broadway. It is enough that you love them, care for them, teach them good values and morals, provide a stable home and family, and support them in realistic goals for their future.

 

[SwizzleStick]

Have you ever had a colicky baby that didn’t sleep, like, EVER at night?..

No, but I do understand a little bit. I did have a colicky baby that didn’t sleep well, but he did sleep some. He very consistently cried and screamed for about 3 hours straight every night from about 3 weeks old to about 4 months old.

…Add that to a 2-year-old who is up all day. …

My daughter climbed out of her crib during her nap one day at 18-months old. She never had another nap once she moved to her big girl bed. My son was born when she was 2. She used to get up in the middle of the night and sit beside me as I nursed him so I had to get both of them back to bed and back to sleep. None of my kids ever slept much. I was a bit envious of my sister’s kids who took 3 and 4 hour naps EVERY DAY. I couldn’t believe it when hers slept half the day away when mine didn’t nap or sleep much at all. Ever. Even at night. The older two are sleeping a bit more than when they were little now that they are teens, go figure. (I know that isn’t unusual, teens need a lot of rest.)

…Then imagine that the infant for whatever reason screams bloody murder every time you put him down. Now pretend this has been going on for 5 months. Yes, I cannot STAND infant babies. Now around the age of 6 months-wow, what a difference. But yes, anyone who can look me in the eye and say they miss THAT stage is a nutcase. There is not one single thing I miss about that stage. I cried almost every day. I even yelled at my baby a couple of times. I hated myself and I did not like my baby-loved him though. So…yeah. This has been my experience with both babies and people wonder why the idea of having like FOUR sounds so bad.

I think you are very stressed and just exhausted. I do remember that you have had concerns or taken issue with the Church’s teachings on contraception/sterilization/NFP for quite awhile, so I’m sure that doesn’t help your stress level. In any event, I do hope your little one sleeps through the night soon so you can get some rest and that that helps reduce your stress level. I’ll pray for you and your family.

 

[constantconvert]

Well, personally, I think it would be tragic if my child had the potential to be an Olympic athlete, or a world-class violin player and I had to tell them “no, sorry” regarding their lessons. There is nothing in the world like being passionate about something you’re great at, like being able to do something maybe 10 people in the whole world can do, like setting a seemingly impossible goal and pushing yourself to your physical and emotional limits and then leaving those limits in the dust. The experience is indescribable and one every child should have should they desire it.

If God wants your kid to be an Olympic athlete or a world class violin player they will be. God has more ways of working than just your checkbook.

I’m with you on the baby stage though. Ugh, my least favorite stage. Would not go back to those days for all the beans in Boston. It gets MUCH easier as you go along.

 

[gardenswithkids]

… but I try to follow Church teaching out of discipline and respect and in order to remain in communion.

Good for you, and I truly and sincerely mean that.

…For some people, sitting around a dinner table with 8 kids all talking and passing around mashed potatoes and doing 4 loads of laundry a day is a dream come true. That’s wonderful. FOR THEM. For me, it would be walking through the Louvre with my husband and kids and chatting about the artistic masterpieces of the world followed by dinner on the Seine. Can’t do things like that with 4+ kids unless you’re a millionaire. I’m not just a breeder of little baby Catholics.

I’ve been parenting a long, long time now. I have yet to meet any mother with 5 + kids describe laundry as a “dream come true”–at least not unless we just got a new washer and we’re comparing it to an old broken washer that held only half as many clothes, but that “joy” only last for the first couple of loads. (I know, I know, you must be thinking that I show such ingratitude to the Lord for the gift of my washer and the opportunity to serve Him by washing eight peoples dirty socks and underwear. Mea culpa.)

Seriously, I realize that you’re sleep deprived and I appreciate that you are following Church teachings, but could you please hold off on offensive comments like “breeder”?

… There is nothing in the world like being passionate about something you’re great at, like being able to do something maybe 10 people in the whole world can do, like setting a seemingly impossible goal and pushing yourself to your physical and emotional limits and then leaving those limits in the dust. The experience is indescribable and one evey child should have should they desire it.

I do agree that God will give a person SOME means of parenting their children, but I’m not looking to be a miserable martyr here. I just want a happy, average-sized family that can all go to Disney and out to eat once in awhile. I am just not a woman who likes or wants lots of kids, and call me crazy, but I want to be happy, not exhausted and miserable.

I don’t want to be one of those Dickensian families with nothing to eat on Christmas day but stewed turnips and a bunch of dirty kids sitting around the table, getting pitying glances from outsiders who say things like, “That poor family, but they have so much LOVE”. I don’t find that heartwarming, I find it irresponsible and stupid. I know I’m being dramatic here, but you get the point

Yes, you are being overly dramatic. Please knock it off. It’s not making your point–it’s insulting to parents of large families and/or the poor. Do really you think large families are all dirty, irresponsible and stupid? For the sake of Christian charity, please think before you type.

No, God does not want to make any of us miserable martyrs; He wants to make us a joy-filled saints. He’d probably like it if I found more joy in doing laundry too.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

French professors can make $100,000 a year, but that is not really the point. The point is knowledge and a passion for the subject. Sorry, but after a while, Dora the Explorer make a Mommy feel downright retarded. I am a good mom, I stay at home with my kids and practice attachment parenting and love my babies like you wouldn’t believe-but that’s not ways enough is it? I’m not going to feel guilty about the fact that I find it incredibly stimulating to discuss and analyze French poetry at length with the geniuses of the field in a classroom setting. Everyone should be able to have that feeling. For my husband, it’s fishing. I would never dream of asking him to give that up simply because of some arbitrary idea that more kids=better.

For some people, sitting around a dinner table with 8 kids all talking and passing around mashed potatoes and doing 4 loads of laundry a day is a dream come true. That’s wonderful. FOR THEM. For me, it would be walking through the Louvre with my husband and kids and chatting about the artistic masterpieces of the world followed by dinner on the Seine. Can’t do things like that with 4+ kids unless you’re a millionaire. I’m not just a breeder of little baby Catholics.

Wow, LaSainte. I missed this post, and I’m really sorry now that I wrote my sympathetic posts to you. You are swinging your bat at just about everyone, from your first post to your last, but especially with this one.

Do you have ANY idea how many people you just insulted here? Like women with large families are retarded (that’s Down Syndrome, and people with Down Syndrome are lovely individuals), and all they want is to sit around passing mashed potatoes? You know, I’m beginning to think you really are not qualified to have ANY children, if your attitude is so sour toward children, other people, and your own MISERABLE life watching Dora the Explorer with your children. Sheesh!

I’m done. More than hugs, I think you need a good dose of GRATITUDE for the 2 blessings that God has granted you. All you’ve done is complain about how horrible it is to have babies and young children and how you don’t want to be “one of THOSE women” with a large family. Man. I hope you realize just how blessed you are. But I doubt that you can. You resent your children, don’t you? They keep you from that exciting, expert-filled room just bursting with French poetry. What kind of life would you have, if you didn’t have to stay home and raise your blessings? Flying around the world with your husband? Dinner on the Seine? Well, good luck to you. You can’t have everything, but I think your children are going to understand that your true love is yourself, not them.

 

[gardenswithkids]

Wow, LaSainte. I missed this post, and I’m really sorry now that I wrote my sympathetic posts to you. You are swinging your bat at just about everyone, from your first post to your last, but especially with this one.

Do you have ANY idea how many people you just insulted here? …

Don’t be sorry for your sympathy. She needs it.

I read her comments about mothers large families and her opinion swings between extremes. On one hand we’re doing hard work because we’re some type of super-women/saints, performing menial chores with great love and joy at all times, never tiring, always cheerful…(clearly, she has not been to my home) to the other extreme of the nastier posts…(and again, she has not been to my home as I would never serve my family turnips.)

*She doesn’t seem to get that moms of large families are really just people. *

As you say, she’s swinging the bat, which tells me she’s clearly hurting, (and likely very sleep deprived ontop of it.) She needed your sympathy. She and her family have my prayers. We should probably “offer up” a load of laundry or two for her. The truly saintly people here might even eat a few turnips as a penance on her behalf.

 

[aloe]

You had two children in your 30s that you love and it sounds like they keep you busy. Sounds like you are in a hard place right now with a lot on your mind and future plans. It also sounds like you have/are battled/battling PPD, have you spoken to a doctor about it?

Basically you say you want to be in line with Catholic teaching, you do want another child, yet if you actually do get any more - a girl or boy, you will be getting sterilized. You are betting on NFP failing at least once, which is somewhat OK with you but after that it will be no more NFP. And if you tried for another by your own doing, going for the girl, that also ends in sterilization. Sterilization seems to be the end result of pretty much anything you foresee in your future. If you feel you need counsel on this subject to stay in communion with the church then don’t hesitate to speak with a priest.

 

[AthenaC]

So, I thought I would chime in to answer the original post. I can easily understand the sentiment of being “open to life” with ABC. It’s the idea of openly accepting the failure rate of ABC and rejoicing in new life when ABC decides not to be effective. That was ALWAYS my attitude and was a huge component in my decision to be sexually active whether I was married or not. See, at the core I was always pro-life and I understood that new life is always a gift; this fact does not change that I was more than willing to play roulette with ABC. I further suspect this is the attitude of many (otherwise) faithful Catholic couples who use ABC.

Of course, all of the above is assuming I am understanding the OP correctly.

 

[jilly4ski]

So, I thought I would chime in to answer the original post. I can easily understand the sentiment of being “open to life” with ABC. It’s the idea of openly accepting the failure rate of ABC and rejoicing in new life when ABC decides not to be effective. That was ALWAYS my attitude and was a huge component in my decision to be sexually active whether I was married or not. See, at the core I was always pro-life and I understood that new life is always a gift; this fact does not change that I was more than willing to play roulette with ABC. I further suspect this is the attitude of many (otherwise) faithful Catholic couples who use ABC.

Of course, all of the above is assuming I am understanding the OP correctly.

Indeed, people might think this, but it is still a misunderstanding of what it means to be “open to life” as the Church uses the term. To be open to life, is in reference to the individual times we engaged in the marital act. Meaning we put nothing in the way when we do engage in marital relations. Abstaining because one has discerned that they cannot have another child at this time is not the antithesis of being open to life, in fact it is in line with the concept.

Gardens, thank you for your kind words to the OP. I don’t think I will eat any turnips , but maybe I will offer up some poopy diapers for LaSainte.

LaSainte, you know, you would probably be doing laundry if you didn’t have kids and if you were working your dream job.

Anyways, happy mother’s day and may the blessings of children always be before your eyes and upon your heart.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Don’t be sorry for your sympathy. She needs it.

I read her comments about mothers large families and her opinion swings between extremes. On one hand we’re doing hard work because we’re some type of super-women/saints, performing menial chores with great love and joy at all times, never tiring, always cheerful…(clearly, she has not been to my home) to the other extreme of the nastier posts…(and again, she has not been to my home as I would never serve my family turnips.)

*She doesn’t seem to get that moms of large families are really just people. *

As you say, she’s swinging the bat, which tells me she’s clearly hurting, (and likely very sleep deprived ontop of it.) She needed your sympathy. She and her family have my prayers. We should probably “offer up” a load of laundry or two for her. The truly saintly people here might even eat a few turnips as a penance on her behalf.

Wonderful post! On this Mother’s Day, I have a lot to offer up, so doing in on behalf of a mom who may still be depressed and sleep-depraved *(yes that was an intentional typo) won’t be difficult. Some women have the wrong kind of temperament to deal with small babies. And, she mentioned attachment parenting, which seems to be the fashion these days. That would have driven me right round the bend, because it seems you are never allowed to have a break from your children!

Anyway, it was her verbiage, especially the trigger word, “breeders,” which is used by nasty militant homosexuals to refer to heterosexuals, that sent me into my tiny tirade. I have had many moments through the years where I sat on my “pity pot” for days or weeks, and I was reluctant to leave it. But a gratitude list is an almost instant antidote for self-pity. For me, the ridiculous blessing of having had 2 healthy children after the age of 30, with no problems conceiving, was never to be taken for granted. In fact, I was using a diaphragm when our 2nd one was conceived. Obviously God had a plan for us!

Well, LaSainte, I hope your Mother’s Day is filled with love and sweet kisses from your little darlings!

 

[LaSainte]

Wow, LaSainte. I missed this post, and I’m really sorry now that I wrote my sympathetic posts to you. You are swinging your bat at just about everyone, from your first post to your last, but especially with this one.

Do you have ANY idea how many people you just insulted here? Like women with large families are retarded (that’s Down Syndrome, and people with Down Syndrome are lovely individuals), and all they want is to sit around passing mashed potatoes? You know, I’m beginning to think you really are not qualified to have ANY children, if your attitude is so sour toward children, other people, and your own MISERABLE life watching Dora the Explorer with your children. Sheesh!

I’m done. More than hugs, I think you need a good dose of GRATITUDE for the 2 blessings that God has granted you. All you’ve done is complain about how horrible it is to have babies and young children and how you don’t want to be “one of THOSE women” with a large family. Man. I hope you realize just how blessed you are. But I doubt that you can. You resent your children, don’t you? They keep you from that exciting, expert-filled room just bursting with French poetry. What kind of life would you have, if you didn’t have to stay home and raise your blessings? Flying around the world with your husband? Dinner on the Seine? Well, good luck to you. You can’t have everything, but I think your children are going to understand that your true love is yourself, not them.

And here comes the judgement. How lovely to wake up on Mother’s Day to read that I am not “qualified” to have my children.

For the record, can you please point out where I said that women who enjoy their large families are “retarded” or where I somehow insulted people with Down Syndrome? For the record, one of my very best friends since FOREVER has a child with Down Syndrome and he is the light of her life.

I also was not trying to insult the poor with lots of kids. I just said I do not want to BE poor with lots of kids. Show of hands: who here wants to be poor with lots of kids they can’t take care of? Anyone? Thought so.

Apologies as well to any Dickensian characters who were hurt by my post.

Also, I do NOT resent my boys. I LOVE them more than words, and any choices or sacrifices I make for them are my own. I do believe that each of my kids deserves a full-time mommy, which is probably why my day works out to be around 16 hours long! I feel sorry for kids who barely get any time or attention because they have so many siblings that they get lost in the shuffle. I want to be the best mom I can be, and I can’t do that with 4 or more kids. Maybe some people manage it, and I’m sure it helps when they start having kids at 20 and can space them out more, but I don’t have that luxury. It is precisely BECAUSE I love my kids so much that I do not really want any more.

And my gratitude for these babies is immense. You do not know me at all.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

And here comes the judgement. How lovely to wake up on Mother’s Day to read that I am not “qualified” to have my children.

For the record, can you please point out where I said that women who enjoy their large families are “retarded” or where I somehow insulted people with Down Syndrome? For the record, one of my very best friends since FOREVER has a child with Down Syndrome and he is the light of her life.

I also was not trying to insult the poor with lots of kids. I just said I do not want to BE poor with lots of kids. Show of hands: who here wants to be poor with lots of kids they can’t take care of? Anyone? Thought so.

Apologies as well to any Dickensian characters who were hurt by my post.

Also, I do NOT resent my boys. I LOVE them more than words, and any choices or sacrifices I make for them are my own. I do believe that each of my kids deserves a full-time mommy, which is probably why my day works out to be around 16 hours long! I feel sorry for kids who barely get any time or attention because they have so many siblings that they get lost in the shuffle. I want to be the best mom I can be, and I can’t do that with 4 or more kids. Maybe some people manage it, and I’m sure it helps when they start having kids at 20 and can space them out more, but I don’t have that luxury. It is precisely BECAUSE I love my kids so much that I do not really want any more.

And my gratitude for these babies is immense. You do not know me at all.

Read my post above your latest. You still have a bitter edge, my dear. Make a gratitude list. Go from A-Z, write down something for each letter that you are happy and thankful for.

Your words have a tone to them that you may not see, but that is clear to those of us reading them. Yes, you did imply and you used the term “retarded.” You can look back and see what you said. Although you may be in such denial that you think you are not being cruel, you have been whacking away at large families with sarcasm and sourness.

Well, I hope you have a good Mother’s Day. Please go and view my card that I sent to all mommies here on CAF.

 

[LaSainte]

I said that watching Dora the Explorer all day can make a mommy feel downright retarded, referring to myself. I didn’t as you implied, call mothers of large families retarded. I’m sorry if anyone took it that way.

I’m always shocked by people on here who go around telling everyone to just go and have more kids when they have no idea about anyone’s financial or personal or emotional situation. It’s just irresponsible.

Happy mother’s day to all. I’m going to go enjoy my boys . Thanks for the prayers!

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I said that watching Dora the Explorer all day can make a mommy feel downright retarded, referring to myself. I didn’t as you implied, call mothers of large families retarded. I’m sorry if anyone took it that way.

I’m always shocked by people on here who go around telling everyone to just go and have more kids when they have no idea about anyone’s financial or personal or emotional situation. It’s just irresponsible.

Happy mother’s day to all. I’m going to go enjoy my boys . Thanks for the prayers!

Then DON’T WATCH Dora the Explorer all day!



I am glad you are out enjoying your boys. I hope you saved your bitter edginess for us and don’t take it out on your family.

Remember, attachment parenting is just the latest fad. Your grandma would tell you that it’s crazy. I think it is too. You may buy into it completely, but being with your kids 24/7 and even wearing them, and sleeping with them, takes a toll on just about everyone. Imagine if you could never get away from your spouse and had to actually carry him around on your back too!

 

[Eleanor61]

Then DON’T WATCH Dora the Explorer all day!



I am glad you are out enjoying your boys. I hope you saved your bitter edginess for us and don’t take it out on your family.

Remember, attachment parenting is just the latest fad. Your grandma would tell you that it’s crazy. I think it is too. You may buy into it completely, but being with your kids 24/7 and even wearing them, and sleeping with them, takes a toll on just about everyone. Imagine if you could never get away from your spouse and had to actually carry him around on your back too!

Attachment parenting isn’t really just the latest fad, it dates back to the early 80’s, and I, along with all of my friends were “into” it. My children, all 5, we’re raised this way, and my daughter is beside herself with delight to be raising her 2 month old son the way she and her 4 younger brothers were raised. I like AP, and heartily endorse it.
That being said, it is not a fad, but it is a hobby, or at least a choice of interests ( like, dare I say, French literature? ). If you don’t enjoy it, why the heck are you doing it ? I have met brilliant, charming children raised with AP and little monsters as well. It certainly doesn’t guarantee results, certainly not with an angry, stressed out mommy, but even with serene, calm mommies, except in the sense that biological children tend to inherit their parents’ dispositions.
We all went on to homeschool as well, all highly educated women who did this because we liked it and found our children interesting, not because we had to. It was great fun, but again, not mandatory in order to raise great kids. Nothing guarantees that.
My two youngest are adopted, (as infants) three of my five are academically brilliant, one is severely learning disabled and one of the brilliant ones has Asperger’s syndrome. The gifted ones have trouble socially because of inherited autism spectrum issues, the ones that struggle academically have perfect, attractive personalities. The youngest woke up screaming every night for five years. Raising children isn’t easy, but some of us roll better than others.
If you know your limitations, or at least are able to argue for them as vociferously as you have been, why are you practicing attachment parenting? You seem much better suited to detachment parenting, and 8 months isn’t too young to experiment with a little crying it out.

I didn’t mean that last bit sarcastically, it sounded unkind. Only mean to say that attachment parenting needn’t be an all or nothing proposition, and 8 times a night is absurd for an infant to be waking. None of mine woke more than two or three times, even as newborns. You must strike a balance and your need for sleep is not negotiable. If what you are doing isn’t working,try something else. Your need for sleep isn’t nearly as flexible as your need for a PhD.
As for the argument against NFP, it is a really straw argument. If NFP is so reliable that you will never have your little girl if you use it, why can’t you use it until you can handle another baby? Your logic escapes me completely.

 

[LaSainte]

Attachment parenting isn’t really just the latest fad, it dates back to the early 80’s, and I, along with all of my friends were “into” it. My children, all 5, we’re raised this way, and my daughter is beside herself with delight to be raising her 2 month old son the way she and her 4 younger brothers were raised. I like AP, and heartily endorse it.
That being said, it is not a fad, but it is a hobby, or at least a choice of interests ( like, dare I say, French literature? ). If you don’t enjoy it, why the heck are you doing it ? I have met brilliant, charming children raised with AP and little monsters as well. It certainly doesn’t guarantee results, certainly not with an angry, stressed out mommy, but even with serene, calm mommies, except in the sense that biological children tend to inherit their parents’ dispositions.
We all went on to homeschool as well, all highly educated women who did this because we liked it and found our children interesting, not because we had to. It was great fun, but again, not mandatory in order to raise great kids. Nothing guarantees that.
My two youngest are adopted, (as infants) three of my five are academically brilliant, one is severely learning disabled and one of the brilliant ones has Asperger’s syndrome. The gifted ones have trouble socially because of inherited autism spectrum issues, the ones that struggle academically have perfect, attractive personalities. The youngest woke up screaming every night for five years. Raising children isn’t easy, but some of us roll better than others.
If you know your limitations, or at least are able to argue for them as vociferously as you have been, why are you practicing attachment parenting? You seem much better suited to detachment parenting, and 8 months isn’t too young to experiment with a little crying it out.

Don’t get me wrong, I LOVE attachment parenting. As tired as I am, I adore co-sleeping and I love the results I have achieved so far. I just don’t want to do it with a bunch of kids. As I said, I want to be a terrific mommy to 2, 3 tops, not a mediocre mom to 4 or 5. And before anybody jumps my business for that, I’m NOT calling all moms of more than 3 kids mediocre. Some do it very well.

The bizarre thing on this board is that most people here either think you should ether never marry and have zero kids or be open to having a dozen and are totally baffled if you know in your heart you only want 2 or 3. They applaud people who have 12 kids they can’t afford and deride people who know their limits.

 

[Eleanor61]

Don’t get me wrong, I LOVE attachment parenting. As tired as I am, I adore co-sleeping and I love the results I have achieved so far. I just don’t want to do it with a bunch of kids. As I said, I want to be a terrific mommy to 2, 3 tops, not a mediocre mom to 4 or 5. And before anybody jumps my business for that, I’m NOT calling all moms of more than 3 kids mediocre. Some do it very well.

The bizarre thing on this board is that most people here either think you should ether never marry and have zero kids or be open to having a dozen and are totally baffled if you know in your heart you only want 2 or 3. They applaud people who have 12 kids they can’t afford and deride people who know their limits.

It isn’t that I don’t think you have a point, but that you don’t have to have a houseful at once, or, indeed at all. What you don’t seem to be allowing for is the possibility that you may change your mind down the road. Your thoughts are complicated by many things, but they are by no means clear. We thought at one point that we coudn’t handle more, we had 3 under 4 years old, but later when we changed our minds we couldn’t have more (husband had severe case of chicken pox, fever left him sterile) and we adopted.
People just want you to keep a more open mind about the future. Your desire to follow church teaching is admirable and rare. Preserve it.

 

[Dominique1234]

He told Adam and Eve to be fruitful and multiply, not everyone, but that’s beside the point. The point is, the fact that it’s “just not my thing”, coupled with financial concerns, coupled wih the fact that my husband and I would be miserable, are all sufficiently serious reasons to avoid having more than 3 children. I am so tired of people on here thinking you have to be practically dying or living on the street to avoid more children. That’s just not what the Church teaches. The fact is, I would be in misery with 4 kids, as would my husband. Thats reason enough right there. This second one almost broke me And since NFP just isn’t that reliable, there is no way we are going to try for a third, because when NFP DOES fail us, we may only end up wih 3, but the drawback is that we can’t try for the 3rd we actually want oh well.

All the super mom’s out there who would be happy with 7 kids, congratulations and pat yourselves on the back, but I am sick to death of people on here getting all judemental because some moms don’t want a baker’s dozen. It’s not like I’m using contraception or anything, sheesh!

Do you attend Mass weekly? How often do you pray? Together with your husband or apart? Is there disunity in your marriage when it comes to your beliefs?

Secondly, are your periods regular? Every 28 days or so? If so, NFP will work wonders for you.

I can clearly see you have a lack of trust in God’s Mercy. God only throws at you what you can handle. Put all your stress and “misery” (as in future children) in His Holy and Righteous Hands. You are BLESSED to be able to have children. Don’t neglect that, EVER.

My wife and I, unfortunately, cannot have children. Have you thought of adoption? I’ll GLADLY take your child from you if you can’t afford it or can’t handle it. GLADLY!

If you truly are open to life, and are Catholic, to get tubes tied or get snipped is going against Catholic teaching. i.e. against God’s Holy Word. Please have a little Faith in God that He is going to take care of you and that He will NEVER put something on your plate you can’t handle. Do this, and I guarantee you will have success with how ever many children God permits you to have.

God bless! I will pray that His Holy Will be done with your family.

 

[sw85]

Ironically, this is true. I have 2 boys under 3. I am 35. I would like to try for a girl, but I know myself, and 3 is my absolute MAX. As it is, I am utterly exhausted. The thing is, if I try for a girl and get pregnant, then what if NFP fails after that? I can’t risk it. The only thing I can do is practice NFP from now until I am no longer fertile. That way, if I get pregnant, it won’t be a disaster. So assuming NFP works as well as the people on here claim, I will have only 2 kids, whereas if I could just have one more and then have my tunes tied, I would probably do that. I just cannot risk having 4, so I will probably end up with only 2 instead of the 3 I would actually like. Ironic isn’t it?

I’ve said this a few times now but it bears repeating.

“Openness to life” as the Church means it is not a psychological disposition. It is not a desire. It is not about you at all, really. It is a property of the sexual act itself. So by definition is it is absolutely impossible to be “open to life” in the truly meritorious sense post-tubal ligation. You keep trying to talk yourself into circles on this and there is no way to get around it. A man can’t say he’s loyal to his wife even as he carries on multiple affairs; his actions prove his words either dishonest or meaningless. And a woman cannot say she is open to life even as she sterilizes herself so as never to bear another child.

The bizarre thing on this board is that most people here either think you should ether never marry and have zero kids or be open to having a dozen and are totally baffled if you know in your heart you only want 2 or 3. They applaud people who have 12 kids they can’t afford and deride people who know their limits.

It’s not really bafflement; maybe annoyance is a better word. And it’s far from bizarre. The common theme in your posts is what it is that *you *want, *your *needs, *your *desires, etc. It betrays a stunning lack of both submission and faith – submission to the will of God and faith that He will provide you with the means to carry out His will. It’s not about you or your needs or your desires. It’s about Him. You should live that every day of your life, whatever the cost to yourself. That’s the principle we call “dying to the world.” It’s what Peter Kreeft called “dying to your desires,” and more specifically, “dying to the ‘you’ in your desires.” You don’t get to Heaven by cultivating an unhealthy attachment to the world. Mary didn’t say to Gabriel, “Errr, maybe. Get back to me next week after I get back from the women’s studies conference.” When Christ called the sons of Zebedee to ministry they didn’t say “No way, man, I’ve got a sweet fishing gig going on here and I think I’m on the verge of a big break in my acting career.” It wasn’t about Mary and it wasn’t about James and John et al. It was about God. And submission to the will of God made Mary the queen of Heaven and Earth and enabled those twelve nice Jewish boys to conquer the Roman Empire. Is it any surprise Catholics are short with you when post after post involves you trying to rationalize how best to convince yourself that non serviam is a Catholic principle? It simply cannot be done, and we’re certainly not going to tell you otherwise, no matter how many posts you start on the issue.