I'd like Catholicism more if it weren't for the Catholics

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adelore said:
Yellowbicycle,

Please don’t take what I’m going to say wrong, it’s not ment to be in a negative manner.

After reading some of your post, I’m just wondering something. It seems to me (by what you say) that you’ve been busy “watching others” during mass. If you are that busy “Watching what others do so much, then how much are you paying attention to the Mass?”

If you are seeing people checking their phones, there could be Plenty of reasons they are. 1. They are a Doctor on call. 2. A nurse on call. 3 They could have a loved one in the hospital, yet they wanted to attended Mass, for an uplift with the Lord. 4. They could be a fireman on call…the list goes on. Some people go to Mass during their “Breaks” after all we don’t know what their shift is.

We don’t know the reasons they are checking their phones…and we shouldn’t Assume what their reasons are.

For years (over 25) I was away from the Catholic Church. (I’m a Craddle Catholic) and yes I attended Many Prodesent Churchs.

Prodesents

You are very right the Prodesents are more “Friendly and Outgoing” to Newbies or someone visiting their church. This has been my thoughts on that.

In fact they are so quick to go up to a New person before Church Service…that each and every time, they didn’t even think about the fact that I was praying before service and they interupted me. After service it was the same way.

When a person enters the Church, goes to their pew, why is it Prodesents are so buy running all over the Church “Visiting and such” and no one is even praying before service?

Want to greet that New person…do it **in the foyer **before or after the service.

People who are so busy looking around a Church Service “to see who’s there that we can smile at or who is new” are not deep into the Church Service. Yet this is just what Prodesents do.

Catholics

As a Catholic once I’m past the Foyer, I know without a doubt that I can go to my pew and Pray Before and After Mass and other Catholics are going to respect the fact that’s why I’m there.

During Mass, I am so “tuned in” to the Mass that it’s like I’m in the Presence of the Lord Alone. Does my face to you look like I don’t want to be there. Far from it, I’m so “tuned in” with the Lord I don’t even know your “watching me”.

Catholics that seem to be mumbling… (to you) As Catholics we know we don’t need to “shout” to the Lord in His house. What we are saying (as a group) is so heart felt that we are talking to the Lord with our hearts, we don’t need to shout at Him. (Do you shout during prayer time at home? I don’t.)

After Mass, when I’m leaving the Church, I’m busy still holding on to the experience…so maybe I’m not smiling, I’m so deep in thought and Awe…of being in the Real Presence of my Lord.

The people who are in a hurry, as you say to leave the Mass. They could be the ones who have a loved one sick at home, in the Hospital, the Doctors, The Fireman…who knows. Yet keep in mind **they Wanted **to be at Mass in the first place or they wouldn’t have been there.

Now if you want to introduce your “friends” to the Catholic Church/Mass. What you need to do is let them know this is not a “Social Hour”. Catholics are there for One Reason Only. Explain to them just how Precious Our Mass is to us. That when we are there in the Real Presence of our Lord, we tune “everyone else” out.

So my question to you is this. Since you are noticing all these things about other Catholics Before, During, and after Mass. Just how “Tuned In” are you?
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I was born and raised evangelical Protestant and was an enthusiastic member of evangelical Protestant churches for over 40 years.

I realize that it is rude of me to correct spelling on the internet. But please–Protestants, not Prodesents. Please. The whole meaning is lost if this word is not spelled correctly.

Secondly, please don’t criticize a fellowship of Christians who do not hold the same traditions and customs that Catholics hold. In most Protestants churches, at least theevangelical, fundamental, Pentecostal, and non-denominational ones, it is NOT a tradition or a custom for the members to pray before or after the worship service. Rather it is a tradition for them to greet each other in Christian love. Some Protestant churches request the members to do this greeting in the foyer or narthex, and the pastors, elders, and deacons will kneel at the front of the church before the service to remind the people to be quiet. But in most Protestant churches, this is not done.

Also, BTW, it is NOT custom for Protestants to pray with their eyes open. So most Protestants would not realize that you were praying unless you had your head bowed low, your hands folded, and your eyes closed.

You can’t expect Protestants to do the same things that Catholics do and you shouldn’t criticize their customs when you are visiting in their church.
 
yellowbicycle said:
What is GOING ON HERE PEOPLE?!?!
I want my Protestant friends to at least WITNESS the truth and beauty of the Catholic faith, but how can I do that when the participants at Mass don’t even witness the truth and beauty of it? I don’t blame my protestant brothers and sisters for turning away from the Catholic faith. If someone told me that the Lord is Joy and then I took them to one of the Catholic masses in my area, and they saw these mopey sorry faces, they’d have every right to think I was crazy.
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Really? Their faith is that shallow?

I suppose then, that all math teachers DANG SURE better convey a sense of HAPPINESS AND EXCITEMENT when teaching 2+2=4. Otherwise, HOW ELSE DO WE KNOW IT’S THE TRUTH!?!?!?!?!?!?!??

The reason people are somber at Mass, is because there’s a BLOODLESS SACRIFICE GOING ON.

YOU ARE AT THE FOOT OF THE CROSS at Mass.

The FOOT OF THE CROSS is an inappropriate place to be dancing around and clapping, much less CELEBRATING.

We don’t go to Mass to have fun. The Lord is indeed Joy, but the Mass is not the place for it.

There is, after all, a time for being happy and dancing. There is also a time for seriousness. Mass is the serious time.

Go to an Extraordinary Form Mass (Traditional Latin Mass). I trust you’ll find more people engaged there than you will at the Ordinary Form (Novus Ordo Mass).
 
BayernAnhaenger said:
Really? Their faith is that shallow?

I suppose then, that all math teachers DANG SURE better convey a sense of HAPPINESS AND EXCITEMENT when teaching 2+2=4. Otherwise, HOW ELSE DO WE KNOW IT’S THE TRUTH!?!?!?!?!?!?!??

The reason people are somber at Mass, is because there’s a BLOODLESS SACRIFICE GOING ON.

YOU ARE AT THE FOOT OF THE CROSS at Mass.

The FOOT OF THE CROSS is an inappropriate place to be dancing around and clapping, much less CELEBRATING.

We don’t go to Mass to have fun. The Lord is indeed Joy, but the Mass is not the place for it.

There is, after all, a time for being happy and dancing. There is also a time for seriousness. Mass is the serious time.

Go to an Extraordinary Form Mass (Traditional Latin Mass). I trust you’ll find more people engaged there than you will at the Ordinary Form (Novus Ordo Mass).
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Mass is not a place for joy? What, then, is Gaudate Sunday? Easter Sunday? The Feast of the Immaculate Conception?

While it is not a place for jumping around, it is most certainly a place for joy. One of the best-known Catholic hymns is “Joyful Joyful We Adore Thee”, for Heaven’s sake!
 
Lujack said:
Mass is not a place for joy? What, then, is Gaudate Sunday? Easter Sunday? The Feast of the Immaculate Conception?

While it is not a place for jumping around, it is most certainly a place for joy. One of the best-known Catholic hymns is “Joyful Joyful We Adore Thee”, for Heaven’s sake!
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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joyful,_Joyful_We_Adore_Thee

Presbyterian.

Let me re-phrase. The Mass is a place for Joy, given that it’s the only place we can witness/have/see the Eucharist be completed.

It does not mean, however, that I should go jumping up and down like I just won the lottery.

If the President of the United States was in the room, you would not make a fool of yourself, jumping around, clapping, etc, etc (whatever they do in their ecclesial communities). You would give him respect and be “in line.”

I give to my Lord and my God a greater respect than that.
 
I too wish that many of my fellow Catholics “looked” like they wanted to be there and “looked” like they are participating in the Mass. Then it would be sooo easy to say “Look at us! Look how HAPPY we are!”. It would make it soooo much easier to explain the incredible joy that can be experienced at Mass. I said JOY not Happiness. There is a difference. I am happy for those that look happy. Those that don’t look happy maybe Joyful. Happy is when I feel good, jolly, want to laugh. Joy can be all of that and more. Joy for me in the context of my faith and the Mass is when God touches me deep down in my soul. It is deep and powerful and cannot always be conveyed with words, gestures, facial expressions. Actually, I can’t convey joy with anything but tears. Joy moves me to tears.

The Mass can also be a time of incredible healing. I have cried through countless Masses (usually during the Liturgy of the Eucharist), I have cried sitting with the Blessed Sacrament. This is Jesus pulling me in, healing me and making me better. I hate to think that anyone thought I was unhappy with Jesus. I can assure you that I love Jesus, the Mass, the Church but I don’t always look happy. Hopefully, I do look “tuned in”, respectful, etc.

Maybe one of the great things about Catholics is that many of us keep going to Mass even when we are NOT happy. Not joyful. Even when we are not sure why we are there. There is a small piece of us that feels the pull and responds. A seed is planted. It is up to those of us “who get it” to nurture that seed.

God bless. Pray for those that don’t look like they “get it”.
 
BayernAnhaenger said:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joyful,_Joyful_We_Adore_Thee

Presbyterian.

Let me re-phrase. The Mass is a place for Joy, given that it’s the only place we can witness/have/see the Eucharist be completed.

It does not mean, however, that I should go jumping up and down like I just won the lottery.

If the President of the United States was in the room, you would not make a fool of yourself, jumping around, clapping, etc, etc (whatever they do in their ecclesial communities). You would give him respect and be “in line.”

I give to my Lord and my God a greater respect than that.
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But that doesn’t mean you have to set your face in stone and frown. Smiling is a good thing! Mass is a great thing! We should be happy to be there.

While there’s nothing wrong with choosing to be somber at Mass, we don’t have to be that way all the time. Personally, I enjoy going to Mass. If you look at me, you’ll see a smile on my face. There’s nothing wrong with that.
 
yellowbicycle said:
I have attended protestant worship services of all sorts of denominations. The people who attend those services look like this:

And at the Catholic services, they look like this:

What is GOING ON HERE PEOPLE?!?!
I want my Protestant friends to at least WITNESS the truth and beauty of the Catholic faith, but how can I do that when the participants at Mass don’t even witness the truth and beauty of it? I don’t blame my protestant brothers and sisters for turning away from the Catholic faith. If someone told me that the Lord is Joy and then I took them to one of the Catholic masses in my area, and they saw these mopey sorry faces, they’d have every right to think I was crazy.

Look, I’m not trying to turn Mass into a discotheque. It’s solemn. It’s holy. I get it. But is it really that hard for people to smile at eachother? Is it so hard for people to at least ACT like they want to be at Mass?

I know, I’m probably preaching to the choir here, but what’s a person to do to sort of, I don’t know, INVIGORATE the masses? (get it, masses, masses. Ha! Hmmm…probably using puns won’t invigorate anyone…)
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Put a notice in the Church Bulletin and ask the Priest to call the attention of the parishoners to read it. Also a big notice on the notice board.

Ask the Priest to appoint people to welcome the people as they come to Mass - one Welcomer at each door.

Then get the ladies to make tea and cookies for the people after Mass!

😃 :love: :extrahappy: :dancing:
 
You have to be carfull about judging what you see protestants doing, because there are SOCIAL BENEFITS for acting this way in protestant churches.

The yelling may not be out of joy for The Lord, it may be to make yourself look holy…or impress that cute girl. Or just to keep your family happy.

I have held doors open for people
at a protestant church, participated in the services. Did all the outward things I was supposed
to…but I was deprived inside.
I felt hollow inside.

And I had problems with basic things in life, even though I was constantly being used to teach our congregation.

Now I hate those things! I would rather worship at church with out having to look a certain way to please others, have a good prayer life. And have my spirituality fit reality.
 
yellowbicycle said:
maybe I should go to your church, because of all the catholic churches I’ve been to (I used to travel alot for work, so I’ve been to many) people were leaving early, playing with their cell phones, and popping up…to leave early. Slamming the kneelers up. Nothing dignified or respectful about any of THAT. And it SHOULD be dignified and respectful.
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You must really be unfortunate in your choice of churches. I have also attended many churches in my travels, and have never had the misfortune to see so many rude people. I do have a WONDERFUL home parish where people are friendly, reverent and all of the pews are full. Is there another parish that is close by? Maybe you would be more comfortable there. Before I found my way to the Catholic Church, I attended many others and was disturbed to find that it was nothing more than a place to socialize and that is not a good thing. It sounds like you are paying a lot of attention to what is going on around you during church, maybe you could try sitting on the front pew and focusing only on what you are there to do. I wish you luck!
 
Lujack said:
But that doesn’t mean you have to set your face in stone and frown. Smiling is a good thing! Mass is a great thing! We should be happy to be there.

While there’s nothing wrong with choosing to be somber at Mass, we don’t have to be that way all the time. Personally, I enjoy going to Mass. If you look at me, you’ll see a smile on my face. There’s nothing wrong with that.
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Please don’t judge people by whether they are smiling or not. There may be a good reason that they are not smiling. No we don’t “have to be somber” all the time and most of us are not “somber” all the time or any of the time. What some judge to be somber may actually be a seriousness of purpose that you don’t share or can’t understand.

I enjoy or rather I LOVE going to Mass but that doesn’t mean I am smiling. It doesn’t mean I am frowning either.

I could say that those posters looking for smiles and clapping are “happy clappy” and haven’t got a clue based on what I can “see” but I won’t because it isn’t true. I have know idea the state of your soul or spiritual life based on the look on your face. I understand that those around us can be distracting when they appear not to participate in the Mass but that is something we need to put out of our minds. The issue of smiling or not smiling is just another way to distract us from the Mass and prayer.

God bless.
 
I am by nature a very quiet person. I am very uncomfortable with outward shows of emotion (I’d make a great Vulcan;)

I’ve gone to Catholic churches where I had to greet the people next to me (I wasn’t a bit comfortable, but I was friendly). But I’d rather be left alone.

My cousin who is a priest said that the NO is more welcoming to extroverts and the TLM is more for introverts. Maybe that’s why I like the TLM so much.🙂
 
yellowbicycle said:
I want my Protestant friends to at least WITNESS the truth and beauty of the Catholic faith, but how can I do that when the participants at Mass don’t even witness the truth and beauty of it?
QUOTE]

Your protestant friends can witness the truth and beauty of the Catholic faith in you. Don’t worry about the other congregants. Point out that just as in their churches the we are all at different points on the journey. Some get it some don’t. You really can’t tell by looking at people and maybe most important, accept the fact that Catholic worship is different, more serious undertaking. Ask them not to judge how someone “looks” and that those who look most unhappy are the ones who need to be there the most.

God bless.
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BayernAnhaenger said:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joyful,_Joyful_We_Adore_Thee

Presbyterian.

Let me re-phrase. The Mass is a place for Joy, given that it’s the only place we can witness/have/see the Eucharist be completed.

It does not mean, however, that I should go jumping up and down like I just won the lottery.

If the President of the United States was in the room, you would not make a fool of yourself, jumping around, clapping, etc, etc (whatever they do in their ecclesial communities). You would give him respect and be “in line.”

Apparently you didn’t watch the inauguration yesterday.

I give to my Lord and my God a greater respect than that.
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40.png
Cat:
I did watch the Inauguration yesterday, and I found the situation appalling. Aside from the complete lack of class from the audience (booing Pres. Bush, and chanting “nah nah hey hey goodbye”), I thought the dignity and respect for the OFFICE was completely non-existent.
 
I would like cathlocism better if people who call themselves catholic actually believe and practice their faith.:confused:
 
yellowbicycle said:
I have attended protestant worship services of all sorts of denominations. The people who attend those services look like this:
😃
:extrahappy:
:clapping:
:grouphug:

And at the Catholic services, they look like this:

:sleep:

What is GOING ON HERE PEOPLE?!?!
I want my Protestant friends to at least WITNESS the truth and beauty of the Catholic faith, but how can I do that when the participants at Mass don’t even witness the truth and beauty of it?
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Bring them to the Latin Mass.
I don’t blame my protestant brothers and sisters for turning away from the Catholic faith.
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I totally agree…when the Mass resembles a boring Protestant service…it’s not their fault they don’t want to convert. I feel your pain, I never bring nonCatholics to Mass unless it’s the Tridentine where, like, everyone is paying attention and happy to be there.
If someone told me that the Lord is Joy and then I took them to one of the Catholic masses in my area, and they saw these mopey sorry faces, they’d have every right to think I was crazy.
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The Lord is not only joy, contrary to what seems to be taught these days.
Look, I’m not trying to turn Mass into a discotheque. It’s solemn. It’s holy. I get it. But is it really that hard for people to smile at eachother? Is it so hard for people to at least ACT like they want to be at Mass?
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Mass isn’t about socialization, it’s about the worship of God. Church get-togethers are another matter, and you should bring your non Catholic friends to these in addition to Mass.
I know, I’m probably preaching to the choir here, but what’s a person to do to sort of, I don’t know, INVIGORATE the masses? (get it, masses, masses. Ha! Hmmm…probably using puns won’t invigorate anyone…)
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Asking the priests to preach the truth from the pulpits and require reverence at Mass would be an excellent start. The parish is as holy as it’s pastor. (there are exceptions both ways, I know)
 
With respect to the behavior of Catholics at Mass, surely some are distracted or may be taking the Mass for granted. Forgive them. We are members of the mystical Body of Christ, but none are without sin. While I agree with many of the previous writers who point out that what is in the heart cannot be judged by outward appearances, I think that Yellow understands and agrees with this. I think he would like to see more joyful participation of his fellow Catholics. Therefore, he fears that if he were to bring his Protestant friends to Mass, they would likely come away feeling that the Mass was nothing more than stiff ritual with bored participants. Since they do not understand the miracle that occurs at Mass, they judge the experience by what they felt and what they perceive the congregation to have felt. Also, they think God is equally present at their church since to them the presence of Jesus is based in the scriptures and the gathering of believers. (Wherever two or more of you are gathered…) Thus they choose a service that makes them feel closes to Christ. They look to their fellow participants as Church for to them Church is simply the community of believers.

I would prepare any Protestant attending Mass as follows:
  1. Because God transcends time in a way we cannot fully comprehend, the Sacrifice of Calvary is made present at the moment of the consecration. This is why we refer to the Mass as the Sacrifice of the Mass. After the consecration of the Body of Christ, the priest consecrates the wine into the Blood of Christ. At this moment the blood is symbolically separated from the body just as when Jesus shed his last drops of blood. This does not mean there is any difference in the Real Presence of both species; Jesus is completely present in both the Eucharist and the Precious Blood. Also, when the priest lifts up the consecrated Body and Blood of Jesus, he is reenacting when Jesus was lifted up on the cross. Christ does not repeat the Sacrifice on Calvary; rather Calvary is brought into the present moment on the altar. God, who transcends time and is eternally in the present moment, performs this miracle. Calvary is brought into the present for us. Your prayers are heard by the Lord as He suffers on the cross.
  2. Just as human relationships have levels of intimacy with the most intimate being marriage where two become one, so too the Eucharist is where we most intimately encounter Jesus. It is the complete union of the Lord with our souls. Many Protestants think that Jesus is equally present at their services for he said that wherever two or more are gathered, I am there. So, they look for service that makes them feel closet to Jesus. In part they derive closeness through the witness of their fellow Christians. But for Catholics, the Mass is far more than an emotional encounter. Through the Eucharist, it is the total union with the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Christ. That is why I am Catholic, and it is a cause for great joy. Most importantly, the Real Presence requires a prayerful response. I know I have not always sung as enthusiastically as I could. Worse still, I’ve let my mind wander after receiving Jesus. The Lord unites Himself with us in the Eucharist, and too often we ignore Him with the wanderings of our minds.
  3. Only the Catholic Church provides this most intimate encounter with Jesus. While other Christians are participants in the Body of Christ and certainly can be saved, they are not enjoying the fullness of faith.
  4. Our Protestant brothers need to understand that our response to the Lord is both as individuals and as community. We gather as community, but Jesus unites Himself with each individual. The Lord sees each individual’s heart. Do not to judge the heart by outward appearances, for to do so would be to judge the Eucharist by its outward appearance.
  5. Our puny minds and our limited words cannot begin to comprehend nor explain the miracle of the Mass. I know this essay is a flawed attempt to explain the mystery of the Mass. I pray that you seek understanding through prayer and faith. Pray to God to enlighten our minds to see the truth. Then let the Holy Spirit take over.
 
yellowbicycle said:
I have attended protestant worship services of all sorts of denominations. The people who attend those services look like this:
😃
:extrahappy:
:clapping:
:grouphug:

And at the Catholic services, they look like this:

:sleep:

What is GOING ON HERE PEOPLE?!?!
I want my Protestant friends to at least WITNESS the truth and beauty of the Catholic faith, but how can I do that when the participants at Mass don’t even witness the truth and beauty of it? I don’t blame my protestant brothers and sisters for turning away from the Catholic faith. If someone told me that the Lord is Joy and then I took them to one of the Catholic masses in my area, and they saw these mopey sorry faces, they’d have every right to think I was crazy.

Look, I’m not trying to turn Mass into a discotheque. It’s solemn. It’s holy. I get it. But is it really that hard for people to smile at eachother? Is it so hard for people to at least ACT like they want to be at Mass?

I know, I’m probably preaching to the choir here, but what’s a person to do to sort of, I don’t know, INVIGORATE the masses? (get it, masses, masses. Ha! Hmmm…probably using puns won’t invigorate anyone…)
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You mean update it with hip, now, happenin’ music? :rolleyes:
 
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