Ideas: what do young Catholics need right now? {dating and relationships}

[Norseman82]

In addition, the Pastor asked you to make yourself available to help at the parish. You not only declined without a good reason, but you lied about the reason.

First I did NOT lie. I did not tell an outright falsehood, since it is true that I foresaw a hectic work schedule and had some house projects.

Second, if our Church leaders want to know why they are losing people (and their envelopes), they need to know why they are going elsewhere. And yes, I have told him personally about friends I worry about that either have “thrown in the towel” or are considering it.

That discussion, had you been frank, may have led to some good counseling regarding personal interaction. There’s plenty available women, particularly Catholic women, since they desire a guy who hasn’t slept around and is faithful. Blaming the church isn’t going to give you any real insight.

The key point is your second sentence, and I think the point of the comments of this thread is trying to find ways of getting the faithful together (and this applies to both genders). And I’m not trying to “blame” the Church, but rather “prod” it, since many of our leaders seem more concerned about criminals than the law-abiding faithful.

 

[Norseman82]

He isn’t punishing the Church. I think Norseman is encountering a very real problem that singles in the Catholic Church experience. Singles in the Catholic Church are often treated like capital in a business rather than people with their own needs. The pastor actually does have a responsibility to help his flock enter their vocations. All to often what happens is that priests only care about forming other priests though.

Sure, but the Church needs to be more than a vending machine for the Eucharist.

Some people don’t mind. Why take away that option for those mature enough to handle being set up?

Like his pastor doesn’t have an obligation to help him find a spouse, he has no obligation to help out his pastor. Singles don’t have all this free time that marrieds think they have. They still have a job to do, still have to maintain their health, home and car, still have to errands. The difference is that singles have half the number of hands to do this. In a married couple, one spouse can go volunteer while the other is able to pick up the slack at home/work/etc… Singles don’t have this option.

Sounds like the pastor made a rookie mistake of asking the busiest group for help.

He doesn’t need insight. Everyone knows there is a singles crisis in the Church. We know the reasons. What people need is solutions not more speculation.

Thanks. You understand the problem. Although, in my pastor’s defense, I wouldn’t call the what he did a “mistake”, since I probably impressed him in a good way. I’m hoping to leverage that so he sees our concerns. Right now the approach I’m using is to bring these concerns up in the sacristy before and/or after Mass when I lector. There is a newly ordained priest from Poland who preaches traditional values from the pulpit when the occasion allows (once I even stayed close to him after Mass in case someone tried to give him problems), so I’m trying to keep a good relationship with him.

Another thing is that even if we don’t want to be “fixed up”, it would help to have some structural support from the Church in combating the secular attitudes that have permeated the Catholic dating culture - attitudes that may have had the initial good intention of telling peole to be careful about the person you choose to be your spouse, but in reality is discouraging people from getting married (and sometimes even scolding them for seeking it in the first place).

 

[BlueEyedLady]

From the perspective of a woman, I would leave a church and never return if a pastor tried to set me up with someone without me first expressing a desire for him to do so. And I would never express that desire, because I can’t imagine being interested in the kind of guy who would approach a pastor about finding him a wife.

How many women would actually ever be on board with this plan?

 

[Xantippe]

Someone needs to get them to “connect the dots”.

Look. If our Catholic leaders are so concerned about the decline of family and morals and the decreasing enrollment in Catholic schools (here in Chicago the big news is the number of Catholic schools that are closing or consolidating, including the one I graduated from), they will realize that it is in their best interest in helping people establish good Catholic families. Maybe in the atheist secular world “building your family is your responsibility, not his” may be true, but in the Catholic/Christian world, we’re supposed to be concerned for each other. When I see the comments in some of the dating/relationship threads here on CAF, I see more that people have been co-opted by secular values.

If people in real life gave you pointers (to stop doing certain things or start doing certain things), would you listen?

Or is what you want from them just to bring you a wife on a silver platter?

 

[Norseman82]

If people in real life gave you pointers (to stop doing certain things or start doing certain things), would you listen?

Or is what you want from them just to bring you a wife on a silver platter?

It depends on if the “pointers” are valid. Some of the “pointers” are secular garbage that simply criticize people for seeking marriage in the first place. Getting rid of the garbage will go a long way in making things better.

 

[Xantippe]

From the perspective of a woman, I would leave a church and never return if a pastor tried to set me up with someone without me first expressing a desire for him to do so. And I would never express that desire, because I can’t imagine being interested in the kind of guy who would approach a pastor about finding him a wife.

How many women would actually ever be on board with this plan?

Yes.

 

[Norseman82]

From the perspective of a woman, I would leave a church and never return if a pastor tried to set me up with someone without me first expressing a desire for him to do so. And I would never express that desire, because I can’t imagine being interested in the kind of guy who would approach a pastor about finding him a wife.

How many women would actually ever be on board with this plan?

It doesn’t even require being “set up”. It could be a simple waving one over and saying “Hi, do you know X” after Mass and leave it at that. And what if a pastor does hear from both genders that they are having a hard time meeting someone? I think that would fit your requirements of “expressing a desire”, am I correct?

Or what about offering up prayers for those seeking spouses during the intercessions?

Or, when the occasion allows, simply mention in the homily how some of the secular values that have permeated the dating culture are wrong? Or telling Catholics to be “team players” and stop rejecting good Catholics for those who aren’t?

I’m sure some singles (and even those who aren’t single) would feel validated by some simple steps like these. And the beauty is that we don’t have to change doctrine to do it!

 

[Xantippe]

It depends on if the “pointers” are valid. Some of the “pointers” are secular garbage that simply criticize people for seeking marriage in the first place. Getting rid of the garbage will go a long way in making things better.

Well, any of the following will go a long way (although they may sound like secular garbage to you):

–get a decent haircut REGULARLY
–if you have dandruff, deal with it
–bathe several times a week, at least
–clean clothes every day
–deodorant!
–do not cultivate stupid facial hair
–stand up straight
–get a moderate amount of exercise
–if you are still wearing clothes from 10+ years ago, it’s time to give them a new home
–do not insist on wearing clothes until they are falling apart unless there is actual financial need
–practice appropriate eye contact (look your interlocutor in the face, but not unblinkingly or for long periods of time)
–don’t monologue
–learn to ask polite questions about other people without seeming to interrogate them
–learn casual friendliness and small talk
–don’t corner and attempt to trap people of the opposite sex
–have non-work, non-church interests that the opposite sex also engages in in substantial numbers
–have friends and acquaintances of both sexes
–organize co-ed outings
–respect boundaries
–take no for an answer
–practice social reciprocity (example–if the other person texts you once, don’t send them 10 texts in response–WAIT)
–keep a clean and tidy (but comfortable!) home

Nearly all of those apply to both sexes (but women should especially beware of stupid facial hair).

Obviously, that’s not adequate to actually attract a prospective spouse, but it will keep one from unnecessarily repelling a prospective spouse with disgusting or scary habits.

 

[Norseman82]

Well, any of the following will go a long way (although they may sound like secular garbage to you):

–get a decent haircut REGULARLY
–if you have dandruff, deal with it
–bathe several times a week, at least
–clean clothes every day
–deodorant!
–do not cultivate stupid facial hair
–stand up straight
–get a moderate amount of exercise
–if you are still wearing clothes from 10+ years ago, it’s time to give them a new home
–do not insist on wearing clothes until they are falling apart unless there is actual financial need
–practice appropriate eye contact (look your interlocutor in the face, but not unblinkingly or for long periods of time)
–don’t monologue
–learn to ask polite questions about other people without seeming to interrogate them
–learn casual friendliness and small talk
–don’t corner and attempt to trap people of the opposite sex
–have non-work, non-church interests that the opposite sex also engages in in substantial numbers
–have friends and acquaintances of both sexes
–organize co-ed outings
–respect boundaries
–take no for an answer
–practice social reciprocity (example–if the other person texts you once, don’t send them 10 texts in response–WAIT)
–keep a clean and tidy (but comfortable!) home

Nearly all of those apply to both sexes (but women should especially beware of stupid facial hair).

Obviously, that’s not adequate to actually attract a prospective spouse, but it will keep one from unnecessarily repelling a prospective spouse with disgusting or scary habits.

Those are valid points (although not what I was referring to in regards to “secular garbage”).

Now I have to log off to clean house on my day off.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

It doesn’t even require being “set up”. It could be a simple waving one over and saying “Hi, do you know X” after Mass and leave it at that. And what if a pastor does hear from both genders that they are having a hard time meeting someone? I think that would fit your requirements of “expressing a desire”, am I correct?

Or what about offering up prayers for those seeking spouses during the intercessions?

Or, when the occasion allows, simply mention in the homily how some of the secular values that have permeated the dating culture are wrong? Or telling Catholics to be “team players” and stop rejecting good Catholics for those who aren’t?

I’m sure some singles (and even those who aren’t single) would feel validated by some simple steps like these. And the beauty is that we don’t have to change doctrine to do it!

A wife is not a reward. A family is not something you are just entitled to. If you want to lead a family, then you need to be prepared to put in the work to find and build it. It doesn’t get easier after the vows.

You seem to think that you deserve a wife because you’re a “better” Catholic than some of the married men you know. A pastor has absolutly no place telling their flock that they’re marrying the wrong people and should have instead married “better” Catholics. Besides, those marriages are doctrinally sound provided the process was followed.

Likewise, Catholics know premarital sex is wrong. A prayer for vocations is one thing, but I’m not sure why marriage is special. There’s a huge priest shortage and convents close all the time.

Unless I personally told a pastor that I wanted help, I would absolutely walk away and probably complain to the Bishop if I was being set up, introduced, or otherwise pressured to meet men in church. How creepy and uncomfortable.

 

[Xantippe]

Those are valid points (although not what I was referring to in regards to “secular garbage”).

Now I have to log off to clean house on my day off.

Excellent!

 

[Norseman82]

A wife is not a reward. A family is not something you are just entitled to. If you want to lead a family, then you need to be prepared to put in the work to find and build it. It doesn’t get easier after the vows.

You seem to think that you deserve a wife because you’re a “better” Catholic than some of the married men you know. A pastor has absolutly no place telling their flock that they’re marrying the wrong people and should have instead married “better” Catholics. Besides, those marriages are doctrinally sound provided the process was followed.

Likewise, Catholics know premarital sex is wrong. A prayer for vocations is one thing, but I’m not sure why marriage is special. There’s a huge priest shortage and convents close all the time.

Unless I personally told a pastor that I wanted help, I would absolutely walk away and probably complain to the Bishop if I was being set up, introduced, or otherwise pressured to meet men in church. How creepy and uncomfortable.

Why are you here? Is it to learn about the Catholic, or to insult Catholics who obey the rules?

 

[pianistclare]

Why are you here? Is it to learn about the Catholic, or to insult Catholics who obey the rules?

See, here’s the thing:
You insult people who are trying to make you see another side of it.
I think THAT must likely be your particular stumbling block.
I’m glad you are a good practicing Catholic, but somewhere in there humility factors in. Arrogance is not attractive to a date, a prospective spouse, or an employer.
Leave her alone. She has every right to be here, and OFTEN, OFTEN, defends the Catholic position on things.

And for the record, I’m off today, cleaning house.

 

[XenaFan]

Likewise, Catholics know premarital sex is wrong. A prayer for vocations is one thing, but I’m not sure why marriage is special. There’s a huge priest shortage and convents close all the time.

Something think that the singles crisis is the cause for the “priesthood crisis”. Because there isn’t enough Catholics getting married, their isn’t enough families for future priests to be born into.

 

[Xantippe]

A wife is not a reward. A family is not something you are just entitled to. If you want to lead a family, then you need to be prepared to put in the work to find and build it. It doesn’t get easier after the vows.

Yes.

In much the same way, friendship is not a reward–one either establishes a close connection with another human being, or one doesn’t. I often find myself meeting people that (at least on paper) I ought to be able to be good friends with, but if the spark isn’t there, it just doesn’t happen. Whereas, there are other times where I meet someone that (at least on paper) is quite inappropriate, and yet we do wind up having a lasting friendship that shapes both of us. And that’s just friendship!

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Why are you here? Is it to learn about the Catholic, or to insult Catholics who obey the rules?

Again, a wife is a person and a marriage is a bond. These things are not rewards, they are not owed to you, and they certainly have nothing to do with your adherence to the “rules”.

I’m sorry if you got the impression that “followimg the rules” would earn you a wife. But like with everything else in life, you should strive to do the right thing because it’s right, not because it will somehow cosmically entitle you to a woman.

 

[Xantippe]

Again, a wife is a person and a marriage is a bond. These things are not rewards, they are not owed to you, and they certainly have nothing to do with your adherence to the “rules”.

I’m sorry if you got the impression that “followimg the rules” would earn you a wife. But like with everything else in life, you should strive to do the right thing because it’s right, not because it will somehow cosmically entitle you to a woman.

Yes.

In our culture, one builds a relationship with another human being that (if all goes well) turns into marriage. One doesn’t simply get a spouse out of a vending machine by putting in enough “good Catholic” tokens.

 

[Sarcelle]

Resources like this already exist in abundance for young Catholic singles. What they need is a resource or ministry that goes one step further; a resource to actually help them obtain marriage.

God gave people the desire to marry so that they would act on that desire and pursue it. But most of the Church’s ministries for young singles are more for getting them to be content with being single instead of helping them achieve their vocation.

Should there be more emphasis on matchmaking then? Maybe programs for people to look more attractive to the opposite sex? What programs or ministries do you have in mind?

 

[Sarcelle]

Again, a wife is a person and a marriage is a bond. These things are not rewards, they are not owed to you, and they certainly have nothing to do with your adherence to the “rules”.

I’m sorry if you got the impression that “followimg the rules” would earn you a wife. But like with everything else in life, you should strive to do the right thing because it’s right, not because it will somehow cosmically entitle you to a woman.

I agree.

 

[Sarcelle]

Why are you here? Is it to learn about the Catholic, or to insult Catholics who obey the rules?

You seem to take offense at the people who are presenting you with their own take on the situation.

Question is, how well is your current method on finding a wife working for you?