If a person dies and he did not repent is there any way he can go to heaven?

[Akini]

…Quote…
“A person growing up in a family of emotional or physical abuse…may be inclined to these same abuses, statistics do show this”…end of quote…

These are all excuses!
Man is created to love not to abuse other people.

We can quote the great minds of the Church as much as we can, but the simple truth remains and that is, all those who indulge in activities contrary to what the Roman Catholic Church teaches are going to HELL. Adulterers, drunkards, homosexuals, lesbians, child abusers including the Catholic Priests and Bishops who are child abusers and phedopiles and those Bishops who try to protect or play down the activities of these priests and bishops, murderers, money launderers, prostitutes and the like, will go to Hell. What is so hard about that. You do not need any great minds to tell you anything different. Some great minds are liers. Simple people have seen GOD and HIS MOTHER, NOT great minds!

 

[Julia_Mae]

The Church teaching is very clear. The state of your soul at death determines your destination. Anyone dying in a state of mortal sin goes to Hell. No wiggle room there. Repentence has to be before death. After death its too late.

This isn’t correct. The Church never says anyone is in hell or going there.

To be “repentant” means to regret your action. The OP clearly states the situation is the person regrets their action. If he is unreconciled, that’s what Purgatory is for.

There is also the question of why someone might be unrepentant. An objective sin is not sin one must repent if one doesn’t know it’s sinful.

If Divine Love gives us anything, it’s plenty of “wiggle room.”

 

[Jerry-Jet]

Give me a break–people do die in a state of mortal sin and they do go straight to Hell!

The soul at death is FIXED.

Everyone at all times is either in a state of grace and going towards God or in a state of mortal sin and going away from God.

At death the soul reaches for heaven or hell.

Satan is behind all the universalist garbage that says that God saves everyone.

Don’t believe that lie!

 

[thistle]

**This isn’t correct. The Church never says anyone is in hell or going there. **

To be “repentant” means to regret your action. The OP clearly states the situation is the person regrets their action. If he is unreconciled, that’s what Purgatory is for.

There is also the question of why someone might be unrepentant. An objective sin is not sin one must repent if one doesn’t know it’s sinful.

If Divine Love gives us anything, it’s plenty of “wiggle room.”

That is not true. The Church teaches that anyone dying in a state of mortal sin goes to Hell. That is an infallible teaching.

CCC 1035 The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of Hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into Hell, where they suffer the punishments of Hell, “eternal fire.” The chief punishment of Hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.

 

[Julia_Mae]

That is not true. The Church teaches that anyone dying in a state of mortal sin goes to Hell. That is an infallible teaching.

CCC 1035 The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of Hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into Hell, where they suffer the punishments of Hell, “eternal fire.” The chief punishment of Hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.

You can quote the CCC all you want, it won’t change the fact that ** the Church has never proclaimed anyone to be in hell or going there**. If you go to the Pope and say “I know for a fact Fred was committing adultery and never went to confession, is he in hell?” the Pope will tell you only God knows.

No one knows anyone’s location re: hell after life while still in this life.

 

[thistle]

You can quote the CCC all you want, it won’t change the fact that ** the Church has never proclaimed anyone to be in hell or going there**. If you go to the Pope and say “I know for a fact Fred was committing adultery and never went to confession, is he in hell?” the Pope will tell you only God knows.

No one knows anyone’s location re: hell after life while still in this life.

Now you realise you are wrong you are changing what you said. You were not talking about specific people in your last post.

You said "This isn’t correct. The Church never says anyone is in hell or going there.
That is not true. The Church teaching is very clear. Anyone dying in a state of mortal sin goes to Hell.

We don’t know where Fred will end up but we can say with certainty that if Fred dies in a state of mortal sin he will go to Hell.

 

[Julia_Mae]

Now you realise you are wrong you are changing what you said. You were not talking about specific people in your last post.

You said "This isn’t correct. The Church never says anyone is in hell or going there.

thistle, this is how we always end up going back and forth: we interpret things very differently. I said what I said, I didn’t change it, I am not now, nor was I before, wrong: the Church never says anyone is going to hell. You believe the Church does say this because of how you interpret the CCC (which, surprisingly, I am quite familiar with) but what that para actually does is state a general belief based on the definition of “mortal sin.”

No one knows what the process of dying is, there is very unlikely to be a “moment” of death, and the word actually only applies to our bodies, and those aren’t going anyplace.

We don’t know anything about the transition from Time to afterlife. No one knows that except those that have gone through it. We do seem to believe that Jesus went to that afterlife and released people from it, or, if you think “hades” means “hell,” then He let people out of hell.

In future, please don’y try and read my mind or attribute thoughts to me. You aren’t good at it and it’s insulting to me. I have not insulted you. Posters are not topics for discussion. I state again, quoting from my own post, my constant opinion on this issue, which did, indeed, refer to individual persons, not general principles:

**
The Church never says anyone is in hell or going there. **

 

[Jerry-Jet]

All you universalist geniuses answer me this: Jesus says that people go to Hell.

Are you smarter than Jesus?

 

[jcrichton]

QUOTE=jcrichton;8473544
…can you imagine the confusion of people who would meet with their muderers/torturers and find them still relishing on the pain they caused and how they got away with it–not only that but they still ended up Saved?

There are plenty of Scriptural passages that warn us that even the Believers must remain in Christ in order to secure their Salvation!

…as for the Church’s prayer… that’s exactly what Christ wants–for us, the Believers, to intercede on behalf of the world… that does not mean that all of mankind will automatically gain Salvation!
I’m certain that murderers/torturers would not relish the pain they caused at the moment of their death; and I’m certain they will not get away with it. We will all pay the last penny for all our transgressions. As stated in 1 Cor 3:15, “the person will be saved, but only as through fire.”

There is also a quotation from the Liturgy of he Hours from the 1970 translation of the NAB that “God has given us the wisdom to understand fully the mystery, the plan he was pleased to decree in Christ. A plan to be carried out in Christ, in the fullness of time, to bring all things into one in him, in the heavens and on earth.” Eph1:9,10 The use of that absolute, “all things”, is very important from my view. I’m also emphasizing that this idea is only that, my view. I will not object if you choose to retain your view. In the end, all interpretation of scripture belongs to the magisterium. God Bless You!

…but it isn’t simply my view… I know that I may not be as charitable as the Church, but I feel that too many of us (clergy and laity) are smothering the butter on things… while it is true that Jesus stated that He did not come to Judge the world but to Save it… this, as well as other revelations about Salvation must be taken in context of all of the revelations about Salvation (ie: the wages of sin is death!); further, Jesus adamantly reveals:

Yes, God loved the world so much
that he gave his only Son
so that everyone who believes in him may not be lost
but may have eternal life.
For God sent his Son into the world
not to condemn the world,
but so that through him the world might be saved.
No one who believes in him will be condemned;
but whoever refuses to believe is condemned already,
because he has refused to believe
in the name of God’s only Son.
On these grounds is the sentence pronounced:
that though the light has come into the world
men have shown they prefer
darkness to the light
because their deeds were evil.
And indeed, everybody who does wrong
hates the light and avoids it,
for fear his actions should be exposed;
but the man who lives by the truth
comes out into the light,
so that it may be plainly seen that what he does is done in God." (St. John 3:16-21)

…some may argue that Jesus is speaking about the unsaved/unBelievers… ok… that could be the general direction here… but none can escape Jesus warnings that not all who call Him Lord will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

I think the answer to the OP can be found in Jesus’ parable of the wedding feast:

Matthew 22:1-14

1 Jesus spoke to them again in parables, saying, 2"The kingdom of heaven is like a king who prepared a wedding banquet for his son. 3 He sent his servants to those who had been invited to the banquet to tell them to come, but they refused to come.

4 Then he sent some more servants and said, ‘Tell those who have been invited that I have prepared my dinner: My oxen and fattened cattle have been butchered, and everything is ready. Come to the wedding banquet.’

5 But they paid no attention and went off–one to his field, another to his business. 6 The rest seized his servants, mistreated them, and killed them. 7 The king was enraged. He sent his army and destroyed those murderers and burned their city.

8 Then he said to his servants, ‘The wedding banquet is ready, but those I invited did not deserve to come. 9 Go to the street corners and invite to the banquet anyone you find.’ 10 So the servants went out into the streets and gathered all the people they could find, both good and bad, and the wedding hall was filled with guests.

11 But when the king came in to see the guests, he noticed a man there who was not wearing wedding clothes. 12 ‘Friend,’ he asked, ‘how did you get in here without wedding clothes?’ The man was speechless. 13 Then the king told the attendants, ‘Tie him hand and foot, and throw him outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’

14 “For many are invited, but few are chosen.”

Here Jesus is is telling us that we should always be prepared to be called to Heaven (have our wedding attire on). We will never know exactly when we will die and because Jesus commands us to strive for perfection we have no excuse if we are “not ready.” If we are caught being not ready we can plan on being throw into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth (i.e. Hell). Just because we might have the intention of reconciliation does not make us ready to be welcomed into Heaven.

Lessons to be learned from this:

Go to mass every week and receive the Eucharist.
Go to confession as soon as possible after committing a mortal sin
Go to confession monthly and confess venial sins.
Read the Bible (ignorance of the Bible is ignorance of Christ)

These things will help us all to become ready when we are called.

I concur with you… but I would also add that just because all are invited does not mean that the host relinquishes His Authority to Judge who partakes of the Feast!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

I think we are spending too much time on this title, but let us get to the point. Adulterers, drunkards, homosexuals, lesbians, child abusers including the Catholic Priests and Bishops who are child abusers and phedopiles and those Bishops who try to protect or play down the activities of these priests and bishops, murderers, money launderers, prostitutes, and everyone else who indulges in these things and failed to confess their sins to a priest till they die or try to escape by joining other christian sects - there is only one place for them to go - EVERLASTING FIRE of HELL.

…but I think you forgot ‘homosexuals’ and ‘gullible;’ after all, as I understand it, 99% of the victims were males of various ages and the various Pastors/Bishops were heeding the advice of the various psychobabblists that 1-cleared the offenders’ indoctrination into the Faith and 2-once the offense happened, purported that they could be cured)… you also forgot those of us who use hate and lies to further the hatred and persecution of the Church, Christ’s Mystical Body; but we must do more than Confess our sins… admitting that we are sinners is not enough, the Sacrament of Repentence/Confession demands that we “Repent and turn back to God” (Isaiah 1:16-20) so we, all who sin, must turn from our sinful ways and abide in Christ Jesus so that He may Abide in us!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

I have read this, and the posts that follow…you have indicated alot of wisdom in this, as did C.S. Lewis!!!

Who has known the Mind of God???

A person growing up in a family of emotional or physical abuse…may be inclined to these same abuses, statistics do show this.

To one to whom much has been given…much will be expected!

In Scripture is it not true that it is indeed indicated that one will be held to a higher standard than another??

This is why it was such a horrific soul piercing experience for those of us listening to the sex abuse scandals that we’re coming to light in Holy Mother Church…would not they be held to the HIGHEST standard, representing Christ to us in Persona Christi???

Indeed…who has known the Mind of God?

The deep unfathomable mercy offered by God, described by St. Faustina Kowalska…is as deep as the ocean.

I concur with you that Priests and Bishops must be held accountable to a higher standard than even the legal/penal system… but how does that account to the persecution of the Church by persecuting cases that are as old as 30 and 50 years in history and misrepresenting them as though they were recent cases of sexual abuse by Priests and Bishops in the present time?

How does fomenting hatred towards the Pope and the Church justifies the claims made by the various anti-Catholic agencies that purported that the Pope/Church must be held accountable for what Priests and Bishops did? Would you want the Pope to have cc surveillance of every parish and of every home where a person claims to be Catholic?

Blanket accusations and punishment is not the path to truth and justice–have we came so far as to forget the hitlers of this world (many currently operating in various state-nations where might dictates justice and righteousness)?

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[Jerry-Jet]

Why would Jesus speak of Hell in graphic detail if nobody would go there?

That doesn’t make any sense.

If people don’t believe Jesus about Hell where are they headed?

I gurantee you one thing–the devil wants people to NOT worry about Hell and think that everyone doesn’t go there.

 

[jcrichton]

Thank you. This is very true and really the sole reason why we are not told to judge. If it were based on how many sins we had, then we would be perfectly just in judging others, but we don’t know the full situation and what these people have gone through. Thankfully we have a merciful God who knows and loves us completely.

I cuncur, we cannot judge! …but holding on to sin/sinful life is not the road to Salvation… as Christ said: the road that leads to Salvation is narrow, difficult, and seldom traveled! (paraphrased)

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[thistle]

thistle, this is how we always end up going back and forth: we interpret things very differently. I said what I said, I didn’t change it, I am not now, nor was I before, wrong: the Church never says anyone is going to hell. You believe the Church does say this because of how you interpret the CCC (which, surprisingly, I am quite familiar with) but what that para actually does is state a general belief based on the definition of “mortal sin.”

No one knows what the process of dying is, there is very unlikely to be a “moment” of death, and the word actually only applies to our bodies, and those aren’t going anyplace.

We don’t know anything about the transition from Time to afterlife. No one knows that except those that have gone through it. We do seem to believe that Jesus went to that afterlife and released people from it, or, if you think “hades” means “hell,” then He let people out of hell.

In future, please don’y try and read my mind or attribute thoughts to me. You aren’t good at it and it’s insulting to me. I have not insulted you. Posters are not topics for discussion. I state again, quoting from my own post, my constant opinion on this issue, which did, indeed, refer to individual persons, not general principles:

**
The Church never says anyone is in hell or going there. **

There is no interpretation needed (except by you apparently). The Church teaching is crystal clear. When we die we are immediately judged (no waiting for your illusionary transition period first). If we die in a state of grace we are saved and either go straight to Heaven or first to Purgatory.
If we die in a state of mortal sin we go to Hell. All of that is immediate. No transition period!!

CCC 1035 The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of Hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into Hell, where they suffer the punishments of Hell, “eternal fire.” The chief punishment of Hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.

 

[jcrichton]

This isn’t correct. The Church never says anyone is in hell or going there.

To be “repentant” means to regret your action. The OP clearly states the situation is the person regrets their action. If he is unreconciled, that’s what Purgatory is for.

There is also the question of why someone might be unrepentant. An objective sin is not sin one must repent if one doesn’t know it’s sinful.

If Divine Love gives us anything, it’s plenty of “wiggle room.”

…one of us must have read the OP wrong… what I gathered was that that person did not seek to Confess but rather put it off till “some time/day;” this seems to me to be a term repentence… if all goes well I don’t need to repent, but if things go bad I will (that’s conditional repentence); it is quite similar to non-Believers that claim to believe just in case there’s a God or the Catholic (or other) who plans to “just do it” till he/she gets old enough or death comes a calling… Yahweh God will see right through them since the Holy Spirit searches our inner-most being… as the sayig goes you can fool all of the people some of the time but you can’t pull the wool over God Almighty!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

Give me a break–people do die in a state of mortal sin and they do go straight to Hell!

The soul at death is FIXED.

Everyone at all times is either in a state of grace and going towards God or in a state of mortal sin and going away from God.

At death the soul reaches for heaven or hell.

Satan is behind all the universalist garbage that says that God saves everyone.

Don’t believe that lie!

…sadly, the hype is better than reality–even when it comes out of the Mouth of God:

–it is the Lord Yahweh who speaks. Repent, renounce all your sins, avoid all occasions of sin! Shake off all the sins you have committed against me, and make yourselves a new heart and a new spirit! Why are you so anxious to die, House of Israel? I take no pleasure in the death of anyone–it is the Lord Yahweh who speaks. Repent and live! (Ezekiel 18:30-32)

…but fairy tales are so much more palatable… :doh2:

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

You can quote the CCC all you want, it won’t change the fact that ** the Church has never proclaimed anyone to be in hell or going there**. If you go to the Pope and say “I know for a fact Fred was committing adultery and never went to confession, is he in hell?” the Pope will tell you only God knows.

No one knows anyone’s location re: hell after life while still in this life.

…but the point is not who knows who is in hell or going there… the point is that if anyone Believers and non-Believers rejects God’s Mercy (Sacrament of Reconciliation/Repentence/Confession) and dies in his/her rebelliousness, Scriptures attests that that person will surely die (Eternal Damnation); check Ezekiel 18 and St. Paul’s: the wages of sin is death (not God’s Mercy).

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[Julia_Mae]

Why would Jesus speak of Hell in graphic detail if nobody would go there?.

I don’t think anyone said no one could possibly go to hell. What I am saying is that no one in this life knows who is going or has gone and the Church doesn’t claim to know that, either.

 

[Julia_Mae]

There is no interpretation needed (except by you apparently). The Church teaching is crystal clear. When we die we are immediately judged (no waiting for your illusionary transition period first). If we die in a state of grace we are saved and either go straight to Heaven or first to Purgatory.
If we die in a state of mortal sin we go to Hell. All of that is immediate. No transition period!!

CCC 1035 The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of Hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into Hell, where they suffer the punishments of Hell, “eternal fire.” The chief punishment of Hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.

whatever