Here’s the situation as OP presented it:
The way I read it, was for instance: the person was going to go to confession on Saturday but was killed on Friday. I guess it can be read as you did, also. I think the key is repentance: if there is real regret, the Grace of God comes into play and this sin will not be a barrier to Purgatory–>Heaven.
When speaking about intent only God knows the Truth; personally, I think that it is very unlikely that someone puts off Repentence due to anything other than ego (I am not like those who are sinners) or due to some theological teachings such as the “always saved.”
We seem to be having trouble communicating. We have no evidence at all that the person in the hypothetical did not repent. They just didn’t get to confession.
…the problem with such hypothetical is that there’s no evidence that that person did have good intent… just that that person put off the Sacrament… I’ve come across too many of these hypos where the bottom line simply is pride (“aborted babies go straight to Heaven, right? …so it is not so bad if I have to abort, right?” or “but Scriptures say that there’s only one sin which is not forgiven, so suicide can be forgiven, right?” or “Jesus died for all sin for all times, so I do not need to repent!” or “that only applies to non-Believers because we cannot lose Salvation…”); having the ability to denounce sin/sinful life does not automatically means that a person actually opts to do so; hence, the fact remains, put off Salvation and you get just that!
FYP
Scriptures tells us that if we come near God He will come near to us (St. John 15:1-10 and Isaiah 1:15-20); it is this humble obedience and abiding in God that allows us to be found, as the “good servant,” to be in the Path (Jesus)… when we give ourselves to the desires of the flesh we are no longer one with Christ:
Actually, the Greek scriptures say he was in the koils; eg: we say in America, the baby is in the belly of the mother … when we mean the “womb”. The Greeks upon seeing the uterus and comparing it to the intestines thought both of them were coily things – and they are.
…that’s an interesting argument… but wouldn’t that make Jonas a trans-species guy?
I am not saying I know how it happened; I’m just saying that the text makes it clear he died. The text says that he cried out from the womb of Sheol / Hades (death). The image is the same for Jesus in the tomb – for it is a dark pit, which is an image of the “womb”. There are many examples of a dark pit being considered a womb in the OT and Psalms, but probably the easiest to grasp is the new testament image of St. Paul – where he says that our bodies are “planted” in the ground like a seed; and we shall come to new life in the resurrection.
…but these are distinct events… both Jonas and lazarus remained in a corporal temporal non-Glorified body while Jesus resurrected in a Glorified body, one that would never again experience Death–both Jonas (implied) and Lazarus rose in only the human form that would experience the normal human toils and sufferance (pain, sickness, and death); further, both Lazarus’ and Jesus’ bodies did not suffer the complete decomposition and alteration that Jonas’ body would have undertaken if the fish would have digested him and incorporated the organic material into its own cellular composition… as for them bones–I have not doubt in the Omnipotence and Omniscience of Yahweh God… my doubt is the interpretations that we (man) give the Scriptures–again this may be due to several things, including the fact that my wisdom/comprehension is pedestrian and I am not a linguist…
I think native Americans took corn, and placed it in the mouth of a fish, and then buried them both. This was to grant enough fertilizer to get the corn to grow (a lesson our alcohol car/fuel producers still haven’t figured out the importance of!).
That activity didn’t make the corn trans-species; but it did fulfill the saying of the ancients:
KJV:
John 12:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.
DR:
John 12:24 Amen, amen, I say to you, unless the grain of wheat falling into the ground die,
Just so, Jesus was in the womb of the earth on the Sabbath (Holy Saturday), and I’m not saying he was born of “earth” a second time just because he was in a womb/tomb made in the rock. ( Or does that make him a rock, so as to be a living corner stone? )
In any event, the fish is a sign/symbol meaning pagan/non-jew in much of scripture.
Jonas was sent to Nineveh – a prophet sent to the pagans; He was upset because he would rather have gone to Israel; but God sent him to the pagans.
Just so, the cross, tomb, and resurrection opened salvation to all peoples – and not just the Israelites (See Romans…).
If Jonah were merely “asleep”, then there isn’t much point in having the fish eat him – for the fear of the storm; (And it is pretty normal for something thrown into the ocean to be eaten by sharks, fish, tuna, or whatever…)
I say this because the sleep of Jonas in the belly (womb) of the ship had already happened – !! But !! God wasn’t satisfied with that as a sign for he demanded more to calm the storm (his wrath).
The prophecy of Jonah speaks also to another age/time, as is testified to in the book of Tobit; and that time the time of Jesus.
It really doesn’t matter to me whether the body of Jonas was preserved like that of Christ or not; We’re not really allowed to compute the time interval for Jonah because of an ambiguity in the text – but Jesus was in the tomb less time than it took for corruption to set in (the fourth day); compared to Lazarus who was left in the tomb for four days which makes the point that God can reconstitute a body even after corruption which was expected to set in on the fourth day – not to mention the dry bones of Israel in another OT prophecy!!
It’s not like the bacteria in the soil caused lazarus’ body to re-unite with his spirit; nor the intestines in the fish actually re-formed Jonas into something other than a butt baby. But, none-the-less Jonah was re-born in the sense that he was now willing to do God’s will after his resurrection from hades/sheol/ the ocean PIT.
In Genesis, I agree with you; I don’t know what the fruit nor the tree was; but I do know that it is when Adam did what he was told NOT to do – that the eyes of both of them were opened to the need to combat evil.
The only part that I find especially interesting with Jonas, is that he repented while “dead”. It is like Peter says of the prophecy of Jonas fulfilled when Christ descended to the dead – to preach to those who DISOBEYED (like JONAH!!!) as far back as the time of Noe (where many people drowned and died disobedient; except for 8 who obeyed, entering the ark.) To whom did Jesus Go to preach?
He certainly freed the 8 just people from the power of death, but the lesson in Peter doesn’t focus on them alone; Peter was told that he was Son of Jonas by Jesus; and that the sign of Jonah is to those who were non-believers that would become believers.
…it changes nothing; if a non-Catholic Christian refuses to repent from his/her sin that person has forfitted Eternal Salvation:
Yes; in the sense of a perfected body – theirs did not go to the extreme that we can prove from scriptures direct statements.
You’ve gone too far although it isn’t “sin”. I’m going to claim that we don’t know that – and remind you that Enoch walked with God… and later Elijah got to ride on the mercy seat of the ark of the covenant in it’s mystical form.
Yes, and I feel obliged to point out that Jesus’ body was held in perfect formation with NO corruption whatsoever by the Father during the time that his spirit knew death of the body. And you and I believe that we receive his body in the Eucharist; have you contemplated the hypostatic union and what it means that the bread and wine which have become his body – are held that way only for 10 minutes or so? Then the atoms are released from that union, digested by your stomach, and some become parts of your body and others are released into the latrine?His name is not YaHWeH. IF you will call on him, how will you pronounce his name? He that is a Jewah born of the tribe of Ju-D-ah?
Yes, not all translations give you the original languages’ exact words. It doesn’t really matter whether he was in the “womb” or the “intestines” or the “stomach”. The formation and re-formation of Jonah’s BODY was done by God; For JESUS says “I AM THE resurrection.” – which implies that SOMEHOW the Son, 2nd person of the trinity, the very same spirit which FORMED the body of Jesus – also Formed the body of Jonas a second time. The fish is irrelevant – for all I know, Jonas could have eaten the fish later…!
Well Protestants DO repent. They repent and confess their sins to God, not a priest.
…I’ve been told that I jump around… we can tell from Scriptures: Jesus was able to go through walls, vanish into thin air and appear to various people at once–not to mention being completely hidden in plain sight; further, Scriptures tell us that Christ is the First to be Resurrected (Glorified Body) so that He may be the First and the Last, Divine to a fault, if that would be possible…
…not clear what you are emphasizing… sorry…
…I don’t follow–I am speaking of the direct episode: in the belly of the fish; speaking to God; released by the fish; preaching to Nineveh–what transpires later is truly not known.
…you seem to not be following me… Jesus’ Resurrection is the final Rsurrection… the changes that will take place (as revealed by St. Paul) in those who are in Christ, both the dead and those who are still alive at His Second Coming; all others who were resurrected (brought back to life) did not enjoy the same type of resurrection since their’s was not part of that change.
Or again, Jesus in his RESURRECTED glorified body ate !!!FISH!!! that passed into a stomach that could no longer suffer death itself? A body which can not “Change” according to death?
I think you know me well enough to understand that I don’t say these things to make you an atheist or to sting you; I say them to you, Angel, because I believe you can begin to see that although a body is made of matter and spirit; the particular matter does not “matter”.
…again, Christ’s Resurrected Body is totally different! When Mary attempts to embrace Him He cautions her to not touch Him for He has not ascended to the Father; even the disciples that lived with Him do not recognize Him though He has been out of their sight for only days, He walks though walls, He gets Scotty to beam Him away…
…He walks about with open wounds that do not bleed, get infected and are in a suspended state–clearly, Jesus could have done all of that before (fish and bread, walking on water, passing the boat and bringing Himself and the boat to shore, controlling the weather, Transfiguration, moving away from the mobs that could have ceased and killed Him at any time) but this time these things were not veiled as before (tell the vision to no one; be gone!, quiet!..) because the Glorified Jesus was no longer the Lamb of God!.…not a lingust so I truly do not get how Y would sound like a j; and, since I’m truly pedestrian, I am blown with the concept of Jehovah being a derivative of Yahweh?
…what can I say… people wear crosses all the time–they even go on national television and thank a “god” for their success (yeah even those in the porn industry)… and hollowood and people such as Oprah has convinced the massess that evil is the way to fight evil and that everyone is a “god” onto him/herself… Jesus Command that His Disciples forgive or bind sin is quite emptied of value when you consider that cutting out the middle men is God’s call to the Sacrament of Confession/Repentence…
So you think that confessing to a priest is the only way to get your sins forgiven? You don’t think Jesus can do it Himself?…what can I say… people wear crosses all the time–they even go on national television and thank a “god” for their success (yeah even those in the porn industry)… and hollowood and people such as Oprah has convinced the massess that evil is the way to fight evil and that everyone is a “god” onto him/herself… Jesus Command that His Disciples forgive or bind sin is quite emptied of value when you consider that cutting out the middle men is God’s call to the Sacrament of Confession/Repentence…
Maran atha!
Angel