If Adam and Eve were real people but existed hundreds of thousands of years ago, then what about Noah?

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Please site your sources of Young earth creationism is a prime cause for atheism.
You…really don’t need a source. If you ask most people there thoughts about Christianity (Especially in the School System, now mind you the school system is liberal as hell) its usually that Christians are very anti science and they always cite the Scopes Trial and the continual attempts to ban Evolution. It greatly hurts credibility. It would be like having the Pope declare ex cathedra “The World is Flat” and then be amazed why people question the legitimacy of the faith.

We are blessed to be part of a Church that embraces science and intellect as a way to get Closer to God. 👍

“methodical research in all branches of knowledge, provided it is carried out in a truly scientific manner and does not override moral laws, can never conflict with the faith, because the things of the world and the things of faith derive from the same God. The humble and persevering investigator of the secrets of nature is being led, as it were, by the hand of God in spite of himself, for it is God, the conserver of all things, who made them what they are.” CCC-159
 
And yet Our Church allows us to believe in evolution . . .

:whistle:

. . . WE CAN HAVE IT EITHER WAY.

I think we should respect either view. Either view is acceptable. And these visions aren’t contradictory, even though I’ve never heard of them, because the Church says we can believe in evolution. The CCC states that Genesis in its creation account uses figurative language. 👍
Respect? view? either is acceptable…??? Yea if I was a protestant!, Protestants can translate Genesis any way they please…
Catholics have been taught by our Magisterium,…“Adam was the first man…”(not a monkey). And regarding the" figurative language" that refers to “time” of the “seven days of creation”…not mankind being evolved!.
Some of the theologians from the Vatican are stirring up this pot of slime, and half truths.
THE AUTHORITY OF THEOLOGIANS IS NOT SUPERIOR TO- OR ON A PAR ‘WITH’ THE MAGISTERIUM …IT IS ON A LEVEL BELOW IT!!!
View attachment 5459
 
…to take each of your objections in turn:

You (Alec) write: “First of all, you propose the emergence of the Acheulean culture as the point at which what you call humans with intellective souls emerge. You base this conclusion almost entirely on the symmetry and aesthetics of the Acheulean tool. To quote you directly: “They are perfected on all sides, requiring the maker to conceive the geometrical properties on the unseen side that he seeks to perfect on his “working” side. This requires an intellective grasp of geometry and proportion exceeding mere sensible imagination. These half-million-year-old hand axes appear to offer the first unequivocal evidence of genuine intellective activity, indicating the presence of true man with a spiritual intellective soul. Could this then be the population in which Adam appears?” So you speculate, based only on a technology that hardly changed for 700,000 years, that this represented the emergence of modern cognition. No evidence of art, decoration, invention, progress, language or abstraction - merely the beautiful symmetry of a tool. On that basis, a wasp’s nest is evidence of the intellective soul of wasps, and a more powerful example, because not only is it as symmetrical and beautiful as an Acheulean axe, but it is the product of a cooperative society, not just an individual.”

First, my dating in the book focuses on about 500,000 years ago for the aesthetical hand axes. There is evidence, given by Thomas Wynn, that the symmetrical hand axes which existed since some 1.4 million years ago exhibited a sudden shift in form as I describe in the article. I do not claim that this need be when man first appeared, but that such artistic work necessitated intellective presence at least by that point. Other evidence might have existed but left no trace visible to us today. Wasps do create tools exhibiting intellect, but it is not their own. Rather, it bespeaks the intelligence of God, possibly working through evolution itself. In my book, I concede that earlier evidence of human intellective activity might someday be found, precisely in some of the forms you enumerate.
Can’t you see that this argument is based on special pleading? In the absence of all the other attributes of modern man, you are using a single piece of evidence, the symmetry and aesthetics of Acheulean tools, produced from 1.5 million years BP to 150,000 years BP as evidence for the emergence of fully human cognition. Whether or not there was a significant global change in the Acheulean culture at 500,000 years BP, the tool itself is the sole uncorroborated evidence that you suggest. Your claim that that the Acheulean bifacial is evidence for human intelligence, and the equally symmetrical, equally aesthetic wasp nest is evidence for God’s intelligence has no formal nor logical validity. Either both artefacts are evidence for the intellective soul of their proximate makers, or neither is.
Secondly, you write: … with regard to the possibility that humans descend from a single couple, whom we call Adam and Eve, whether or not they are indistinguishable from what you call sub-human primates, you speculate that once God had ensouled Adam and Eve, their descendants did not interbreed with “non-human primates” - which is the equivalent of a bottleneck of two in the lineage leading to the extant human population. That notion is completely excluded by studies of the human genome. Variation within the extant human population is not consistent with the idea that the lineage leading to modern humans passed through a severe bottleneck in the time since the divergence of the human and chimpanzee lineages. There was no literal Adam and Eve - either 6,000 years ago or 500,000 years ago."
The human genome cannot test the presence or absence of the intellective soul in primates. My article concedes that theological monogenism is scientifically improbable, but I offer a possible explanation in the article of how true humans might have gradually replaced non-humans over time. Other scenarios are possible, and God can overcome improbabilities.
You misunderstand my point. I am not looking to the human genome for evidence of presence or absence of the intellective soul, but for evidence regarding the size of the population in the lineage leading to modern humans. Your speculation requires that there be no interbreeding between pre-humans and humans after the creation of Adam and Eve. In biological terms that would require a bottleneck in the ancestry of modern humans of a single couple; ie that all modern humans descend from a single couple and from no-one else in their biological generation. Studies of the human genome exclude that possibility - the breeding population leading to modern humans (and in their direct ancestry) never dropped below several thousand individuals. The diversity of the human genome within the living human population is inconsistent with a bottleneck of two in at least the last 6 million years.

To be continued
 
Continuation:
Third, you write: “[Y]ou claim that possessing human cognition is a binary quality - an individual either has it or he/she doesn’t. On that basis you claim that becoming human had to occur at a single point and time without intermediate stages. But you have no warrant for these claims. There is no reason at all why human congnition should not arise piecemeal (ie some elements in advance of others - in fact, the evidence is that this just how it happened) and gradually (ie, with non-discontinuous development of human faculties). We know, from observing modern humans that their possession of human abilities lies on a continuum - there is nothing binary about human abilities - we range from idiots to geniuses. This is not to deny the fact that there is a substantial gap between the cognitive abilities of most humans and that of other animals - however, that does not mean that human cognition must have developed instantaneously, or that it arises from anything other than natural causes.”
Here you overstep the limitations of natural science. You say I have no warrant for these claims. The warrant lies in the philosophical science of psychology, which demonstrates – as is done in my book – that human intellective abilities depend on the presence of the spiritual soul which alone exhibits true intellective activities. Chapter Five of Origin of the Human Species addresses these issues, and demonstrates that the gap between man and beast is qualitative, not merely quantitative. Man alone possesses true understanding of natures, judges, and reasons. Natural scientists are simply not equipped, as such, to recognize the essential qualities of intellective activity, since they confuse the order of sensation with the order of intellection because of their inherently materialistic biases. Cognition may arise piecemeal, and vary over a continuum both in man and beast – but purely intellective acts are the sure sign of human presence, and purely intellective acts are produces solely by true man. This takes much space in the book to be developed in proper philosophical manner.
Well, perhaps, I should read the book. But let me say this - your argument appears to be based primarily on dictat and on claims of intellectual territory. Your claim is that human intellect is of a different order from that of other animals, outside the competence of science to study and based on an immaterial cause. In contrast to what you claim here, natural scientists are making significant progress in understanding human intellect and cognition as a consequence of neural processes, and in explaining the fully developed capabilities of the human mind in terms of the natural evolution of less fully developed capabilities displayed by non-human animals.

It is certainly the case that all human intellect and cognition depends on the presence of a material brain - it is trivial to demonstrate that the human brain is necessary to the human intellect. The claim that some sort of immaterial soul is also necessary cannot be so easily demonstrated and is a matter of considerable controversy. It is far from proven that human attributes are different in kind from that of other animals rather than being on the extreme end of a continuous spectrum of capability, and it is certainly not proven that human capabilities are binary rather than continuous, and could not have developed piecemeal nor moved along a continuous spectrum over time. It is certainly the case that, for each of us individually, those capabilities develop on a continuous rather than a binary basis from infancy to adulthood, demonstrating that it is possible to possess human attributes whose perfection lies along a continuum. Every single human intellectual ability that you can mention has its primitive analogue in non-human animals, and there are none that I am aware of that logically exclude their existence in an imperfect and transitional form.

Alec
evolutionpages.com
 
Respect? view? either is acceptable…??? Yea if I was a protestant!, Protestants can translate Genesis any way they please…
Catholics have been taught by our Magisterium,…“Adam was the first man…”(not a monkey). And regarding the" figurative language" that refers to “time” of the “seven days of creation”…not mankind being evolved!.
Some of the theologians from the Vatican are stirring up this pot of slime, and half truths.
THE AUTHORITY OF THEOLOGIANS IS NOT SUPERIOR TO- OR ON A PAR ‘WITH’ THE MAGISTERIUM …IT IS ON A LEVEL BELOW IT!!!
View attachment 5459
A “magisterium” that clings to old wives tales based on the science of yore is fit for naught but old toothless slippered men in red or purple gowns. Oh, it may yet serve the faithful washer woman telling her beads in the dim-guttering candle light of ancient churches off the market square, or the shepherd tending his flock high on the edge of the Andean glaciers. It has nothing to say to the Catholic biologist in her lab working on recombinant DNA, or to the Catholic pharmacist rushing to combat a fast-evolving strain of multi-drug-resistant tuberculosis, or to the bishop addressing a conference of Catholic biologists engaged in cutting-edge biological and paleontological research. You may have your old “magisterium” with its hexaemeral creation, and be most welcome to it!

StAnastasia
 
A “magisterium” that clings to old wives tales based on the science of yore is fit for naught but old toothless slippered men in red or purple gowns. Oh, it may yet serve the faithful washer woman telling her beads in the dim-guttering candle light of ancient churches off the market square, or the shepherd tending his flock high on the edge of the Andean glaciers. It has nothing to say to the Catholic biologist in her lab working on recombinant DNA, or to the Catholic pharmacist rushing to combat a fast-evolving strain of multi-drug-resistant tuberculosis, or to the bishop addressing a conference of Catholic biologists engaged in cutting-edge biological and paleontological research. You may have your old “magisterium” with its hexaemeral creation, and be most welcome to it!

StAnastasia
The Magisterium clings to Revealed truth, something you are blind to. You are a victim of scientism and do not even see it.
 
To hecd2

Alec,

You reveal your own philosophical perspective when you write: "Your claim is that human intellect is of a different order from that of other animals, outside the competence of science to study and based on an immaterial cause. In contrast to what you claim here, natural scientists are making significant progress in understanding human intellect and cognition as a consequence of neural processes, and in explaining the fully developed capabilities of the human mind in terms of the natural evolution of less fully developed capabilities displayed by non-human animals.

It is certainly the case that all human intellect and cognition depends on the presence of a material brain - it is trivial to demonstrate that the human brain is necessary to the human intellect. The claim that some sort of immaterial soul is also necessary cannot be so easily demonstrated and is a matter of considerable controversy"

We must recall that this thread is on a Catholic forum which espouses the Christian metaphysical worldview that reality is both material and spiritual. Your worldview is effectively, if not personally, materialistic.The Christian view is that in addition to realities which are either extended in space and time, or else, dependent upon that which is in the space-time continuum, there also exist entities which are neither extended in space and time nor dependent upon things extended in space and time. Pre-Christian philosophical reasoning by such Greek scientific thinkers as Plato and Aristotle maintained the existence of genuinely spiritual entities, so this is not merely a matter of Christian religious belief. Perhaps you have never examined the arguments philosophers have used to demonstrate the reality of spiritual things. I explain some of them in Chapter Six of my Origin of the Human Species, but this forum is hardly long enough to reprint that chapter. I know you are not convinced by my merely referring you to my book, but you apparently are not familiar with the arguments in question. One key concept debated through the history of philosophy has been the nature and origin of universal concepts, which are such precisely because they are not under the conditions of matter. I cannot debate all aspects here, but notice that you can imagine a man or a triangle, but you cannot imagine humanity or triangularity. The latter are concepts, not images. The reason that human intellective cognition entails what you call a “binary” feature is that something is either material or spiritual as defined above. Something cannot both since the properties are contradictory. Hence, I know that when uniquely intellective activities appear in the paleoanthropological record, something truly spiritual has appeared. My book’s speculations then attempt to integrate that essentially new and qualitatively superior reality into the stream of evolutionary data. I might be wrong about the dating or population involved. That is data from the oft-changing world of natural science. But the fact of a shift to the spiritual which transcends mere material capacity (since the essentially lesser cannot cause the essentially greater) demands explanation.

As Aristotle aptly observes, the higher abilities of lower species mimic the lower activities of higher species, and that means that we must carefully discern the dividing lines between merely material activities and those which need higher spiritual powers.That is why, although wasps make nests bespeaking intellective design, the intellect ultimately behind such design need not be attributed to the wasp itself. That is because beyond its singular instinctive behavior it shows no capacity for adaptation. It has no “plan B.” On the contrary, higher primates do adapt and vary behavior. While early Homo erectus made symmetrical hand axes, anthropologist Thomas Wynn points out that they failed to exceed the capacity of apes for sensory shape recognition. But the three-dimensionally congruent, aesthetic symmetrical hand axes which appear about 500,000 B.C. suddenly exhibit the need for a grasp of imagined geometry qualitatively exceeding mere sensory abilities. I don’t claim that all questions are answered at this point, but this tells the philosopher that genuinely spiritual intellective acts are now taking place, and true man is on the scene. We rely on natural scientists for this paleoanthropological data, and thus every judgment is conditioned by the inherent fallibility of the scientists involved, who often contend against one another and change their stories. That is their problem, not ours. The fact of variation in capacity exhibited at every level of species and within the human species proves nothing except that the presence of the spiritual soul with its strictly spiritual operative potencies is dependent upon for their operation (not existence) the material organic conditions in which they operate. That is to say, if the human intellect is present in a person whose brain suffers organic disease or disfunction, then it cannot manifest its full abilities and that person may be judged an idiot. But he is still true man and due to human respect, and possessing a spiritual soul which will survive the death of the body.

to be continued
 
to Alec continued…

As to the human genome studies, l may return to them later, but let me just say that it is natural science which keeps changing and often reversing itself, not the permanent philosophical and theological truths expressed in my work. I recall not long ago that “science” was publicizing all over the world that “Eve” had been found in Africa some two hundred thousand years ago, according to the study of mitachondrial DNA. Later we found out that the “clock” being used was not right, and, moreover, the female at the top of the chain was not the first maternal parent of all of us anyway, but merely a woman lucky enough to have her MtDNA survive to the present. What many persons do not realize is that it is philosophical and theological truth that provides unchanging certainty, and that it is natural science which is the victim of an ever-changing tune. That said, I respect natural science greatly, having a minor in chemistry myself. But some things are quite evident to all, for example, that hydrochloric acid and sodium hydroxide are dangerous poisons, but can be eaten safely as table salt when combined. On the contrary, scientific judgments about paleoanthropological or paleobiological “facts”, or estimates of the age and size and origin of the universe, are subject to constant fine tuning, and sometimes substantial revision.

And yes, as you mention yourself, you should read my book! 🙂

Dr. Bonnette
 
The Magisterium clings to Revealed truth, something you are blind to. You are a victim of scientism and do not even see it.
To the contrary, O Buffalo, scientism and ignorance are the twin foes I battle every day. Remember the words of John Donne:

“How imperfect is all our knowledge! . . . Young men mend not their sight by using old men’s Spectacles; and yet we look upon Nature, but with Aristotle’s Spectacles, and upon the body of man, but with Galen’s, and upon the frame of the world, but with Ptolemy’s Spectacles.”

StAnastasia
 
To the contrary, O Buffalo, scientism and ignorance are the twin foes I battle every day. Remember the words of John Donne:

“How imperfect is all our knowledge! . . . Young men mend not their sight by using old men’s Spectacles; and yet we look upon Nature, but with Aristotle’s Spectacles, and upon the body of man, but with Galen’s, and upon the frame of the world, but with Ptolemy’s Spectacles.”

StAnastasia
But you are not ignorant of Revelation, you reject it.
 
The Magisterium clings to Revealed truth, something you are blind to. You are a victim of scientism and do not even see it.
I agree with you buffalo. It is wrong to put science in front of God.
 
StAnastasia writes: “I don’t reject revelation; I interpret it, as do you.”

That funny. I thought it was the function of the Catholic Magisterium to interpret revelation for us. Our Lord said: Going therefore, teach ye all nations…Those who hear and believe shall be saved. Those who hear and refuse to believe shall be condemned.

We may speculate on those matters not already decided by the Magisterium, but Article 25 of the Constitution on the Church of Vatican II makes clear that we must give a religious assent of soul to the teachings of the Holy Father, even when they are not ex cathedra.
 
That funny. I thought it was the function of the Catholic Magisterium to interpret revelation for us. Our Lord said: Going therefore, teach ye all nations…Those who hear and believe shall be saved. Those who hear and refuse to believe shall be condemned.
We all interpret revelation, as you do in your books. Even so-called bibilical literalists pick and choose what of revelation they interpret literally.
 
You reveal your own philosophical perspective when you write: “Your claim is that human intellect is of a different order… In contrast to what you claim here, natural scientists are making significant progress in understanding human intellect and cognition…and in explaining the fully developed capabilities of the human mind in terms of the natural evolution of less fully developed capabilities displayed by non-human animals…(A)ll human intellect and cognition depends on the presence of a material brain …The claim that some sort of immaterial soul is also necessary cannot be so easily demonstrated and is a matter of considerable controversy”
Indeed I reveal my philosophical perspective in these lines. It is a product of conscious reflection, not unconscious prejudice, and one that I stand by and am prepared to defend.
We must recall that this thread is on a Catholic forum which espouses the Christian metaphysical worldview that reality is both material and spiritual.
Are you arguing that the Christian worldview is a priori true, and that only the Christian worldview is a valid premise for debate on this forum?
The Christian view is that in addition to realities which are either extended in space and time, or else, dependent upon that which is in the space-time continuum, there also exist entities which are neither extended in space and time nor dependent upon things extended in space and time.
Indeed it is.
Perhaps you have never examined the arguments philosophers have used to demonstrate the reality of spiritual things. I explain some of them in Chapter Six of my Origin of the Human Species, but this forum is hardly long enough to reprint that chapter. I know you are not convinced by my merely referring you to my book, but you apparently are not familiar with the arguments in question.
It is not that I am unfamiliar with the arguments, but that I am not convinced by them. Let us examine the one example of such an argument that you give below.
One key concept debated through the history of philosophy has been the nature and origin of universal concepts, which are such precisely because they are not under the conditions of matter. I cannot debate all aspects here, but notice that you can imagine a man or a triangle, but you cannot imagine humanity or triangularity.The latter are concepts, not images.
Now this is strange: in saying that you can imagine the individual but not the universal, you appear to be adopting a nominalist approach. I should have thought that if you intention was to show the existence of a spiritual domain populated by actual entities that transcend matter and space-time you would be more robustly realist. Are you really trying to show the existence of a spiritual domain by a nominalist approach to universals?

Turning to your examples, as I see it, both universals depend on the existence of matter and space-time. Triangularity can only be defined in terms of space - this is clearly seen by the fact that the attributes of a triangle depend on the properties of the space in which it lies - for example, the angles of a plane triangle in flat space sum to 180 degrees whereas a triangle in a non-plane geometry or in curved space do not.

As for humanity, it is not clear whether you mean the class of things to which an individual belongs (which is a definition by species and clearly dependent on matter), or an essence that distinguishes human animals from other animals. Whether that latter exists independently of matter and space-time, or is dependent on it, is precisely the point in question - you cannot prove the existence of a spiritual domain by pointing to the existence of a universal humanity. It is my position that material causes are both necessary (that is trivially proven) and sufficient to humanity (in the sense of that essence that distinguishes humans from other animals) - the attributes that belong to that definition of humanity can be seen as emergent properties of matter.
The reason that human intellective cognition entails what you call a “binary” feature is that something is either material or spiritual as defined above. Something cannot both since the properties are contradictory. Hence, I know that when uniquely intellective activities appear in the paleoanthropological record, something truly spiritual has appeared.
In other words you are using the appearance of a manufactured artefact in the record, independent of all other evidence, to conclude that the maker has crossed some Rubicon of humanity. Whether or not we agree that human abilities are different in kind, or merely different in degree from that of other animals, this approach is flawed because the properties of the artefact, on its own, are quite insufficient to conclude any such thing.
My book’s speculations then attempt to integrate that essentially new and qualitatively superior reality into the stream of evolutionary data.
But you haven’t shown that such a conclusion is warranted based on the evidence of the bifacial - there is nothing uniquely human about it - it lies on a continuum of ever more sophisticated stone tools starting with Oldowan technology and ending with long blades and microliths, and as I have pointed out, equally symmetrical and aesthetic non-human artefacts exist (aesthetic is of course an incidental property of artefacts that exists only in our perception - if you could show that the form of an artefact exists independently of its function - such as non-functional decoration - then you would have found something that speaks of modern human cognition)

to be continued
 
We all interpret revelation, as you do in your books. Even so-called bibilical literalists pick and choose what of revelation they interpret literally.
Ouch!!! Another instance of man before God :tsktsk:
 
Continuation
As Aristotle aptly observes, the higher abilities of lower species mimic the lower activities of higher species, and that means that we must carefully discern the dividing lines between merely material activities and those which need higher spiritual powers.That is why, although wasps make nests bespeaking intellective design, the intellect ultimately behind such design need not be attributed to the wasp itself. That is because beyond its singular instinctive behavior it shows no capacity for adaptation. It has no “plan B.” On the contrary, higher primates do adapt and vary behavior. While early Homo erectus made symmetrical hand axes, anthropologist Thomas Wynn points out that they failed to exceed the capacity of apes for sensory shape recognition. But the three-dimensionally congruent, aesthetic symmetrical hand axes which appear about 500,000 B.C. suddenly exhibit the need for a grasp of imagined geometry qualitatively exceeding mere sensory abilities.
And, as I have already pointed out, this is a case of special pleading. Wynn bases his argument on the fact that other apes do not produce similar tools. But other apes do not produce Oldowan or pre-500K BP tools either, and the argument about symmetry and aethetics seems to me to be spurious, as the example of the wasp nest shows. A scientist would say that a wasp nest is part of the extended phenotype of the wasp’s genotype. It is impossible for you to show that the stone tool in question was not similarly part of the extended phenotype of the genotype of Homo erectus. It is no good pointing to the ability of higher primates to display behavioural flexibility when the specific behavioural evidence remains essentially unchanged over hundreds of thousands of years. I am not saying that it is impossible to make a case for the emergence of fully human capabilities by reference to palaeontological evidence, indeed such work is underway, but that case is not made by the single example of the post-500K BP Acheulean bifacial. Furthermore, the palaeontological evidence strongly supports the *gradual *rather than the binary appearance of human cognition. See for example:
Michael Balter, On the origin of Art and Symbolism, Science 323, 709 - 711 (2009)
I don’t claim that all questions are answered at this point, but this tells the philosopher that genuinely spiritual intellective acts are now taking place, and true man is on the scene. We rely on natural scientists for this paleoanthropological data, and thus every judgment is conditioned by the inherent fallibility of the scientists involved, who often contend against one another and change their stories. That is their problem, not ours.
I am not sure what has prompted this sniping comment at the process of science. It is true that science makes progress by being open to investigating a range of hypotheses and to modifying theories in the light of new evidence - over time, scientists reach consensus which is generally a closer aproximation to reality. If I were to be equally snide, I could point out that philosophers are still debating questions that were posed millenia ago - it does not seem to be possible to use philosophical considerations as a reliable guide to what is.

It is also true that, given the same anthropological data, philosophers of different schools will disagree about the timing of the emergence of fully human cognition; and that the question is far from being solely a philosophical one, including, as it does, questions related to experimental psychology, neural processes, sociology, linguistics and so on.
The fact of variation in capacity exhibited at every level of species and within the human species proves nothing except that the presence of the spiritual soul with its strictly spiritual operative potencies is dependent upon for their operation (not existence) the material organic conditions in which they operate.
The fact of variation shows that human cognition lies on a continuum of capability, that it does not suddenly appear fully formed and qualitatively different either in evolution or individual development, and that it is therefore not different in kind, but merely in degree (very different in degree, admittedly) from that of other animals.

To say that what you call the “spiritual operative potencies” are dependent on the material organic conditions in which they operate, is to agree that the presence of a material brain is necessary for their operation. If the brain is damaged, they are damaged; if the brain is destroyed, they cease. The possible existence of disembodied spiritual operative potencies that neither operate nor are potent does not seem very interesting. You have not attempted to show that any human capability requires anything other than emergent properties of matter (other than by reference to universals, discussed above) - since matter is necessary for mind then until something else can be shown to be necessary, I conclude that matter is necessary and sufficient.
That is to say, if the human intellect is present in a person whose brain suffers organic disease or disfunction, then it cannot manifest its full abilities and that person may be judged an idiot. But he is still true man and due to human respect,
Here we encounter all sorts of dilemmas - what about someone whose brain damage is so severe that he loses all uniquely human (as you see it) intellect; or someone born that way; or more severe cases where the intellect is less than that of any sentient animal? Is the intellect present but unexpressed and unexpressible? How do you now? If you take the valid position that they are human and worthy of respect then you are making a judgement based on the fact that they are members of our species, and not at all about their intellective abilities.

to be continued
 
Continuation
As to the human genome studies, l may return to them later,
Please do
but let me just say that it is natural science which keeps changing and often reversing itself, not the permanent philosophical and theological truths expressed in my work
.
We have discussed this above, but are you really arguing that you can ignore any and all scientific evidence that refutes a position that you have taken absent any consideration of its merits, on the grounds that it might change at some point? In that case, scientific knowledge has nothing to say to you, as you will always be able to reject some inconvenient evidence arising from scientific study on the grounds that it might change in the future. I am sure you do not really mean to argue that way, so we should look at the specific merits of the scientific finding that the human population has never passed through a bottleneck of two.
I recall not long ago that “science” was publicizing all over the world that “Eve” had been found in Africa some two hundred thousand years ago, according to the study of mitachondrial DNA. Later we found out that the “clock” being used was not right, and, moreover, the female at the top of the chain was not the first maternal parent of all of us anyway, but merely a woman lucky enough to have her MtDNA survive to the present.
You have chosen an example with which I am very familiar and you have, I am afraid, quite misrepresented it. There are so many errors of fact and concept in your two sentences above that it is impossible for me to address them all. Suffice it to say that the existence of a matrilineal Most Recent Common Ancestor is not an empirical finding but logically arises from coalescence theory. No MRCA has been “found” in Africa or anywhere else. The date of the MRCA has been estimated. Scientists knew all along that the matrilineal MRCA was not the first maternal parent of us all and that all such females in the matrilineal ancestry of the MRCA are also maternal parents of us all. The first maternal parent of us lies long before the emergence of mammals and primates, and in a sense goes back to the beginning of life. The work to date the MRCA uses variability in the mitochondrial genome of extant women, and although the initial work was challenged by some discrepancies in the rate of mutation in that portion of the mitochondrial genome that was originally used, that has been resolved and a date around 175K BP is now accepted. The pattern of the variability in mitochondrial genome in women from different continents also allows us to conclude that the MRCA lived in Africa. If you would like to find out more about “Mitochondrial Eve”, so that the next time you want to use her as an example, you make fewer mistakes, go to my two articles on the subject here:
evolutionpages.com/Mitochondrial%20Eve.htm
evolutionpages.com/Mteve_not_biblical_eve.htm
What many persons do not realize is that it is philosophical and theological truth that provides unchanging certainty, and that it is natural science which is the victim of an ever-changing tune.
If only philosophers and theologians could agree on what that truth is …
That said, I respect natural science greatly, having a minor in chemistry myself. But some things are quite evident to all, for example, that hydrochloric acid and sodium hydroxide are dangerous poisons, but can be eaten safely as table salt when combined. On the contrary, scientific judgments about paleoanthropological or paleobiological “facts”, or estimates of the age and size and origin of the universe, are subject to constant fine tuning, and sometimes substantial revision.
Is your knowledge of how the age of the universe is estimated about the same depth as your knowledge of “Mitochondrial Eve”?

You do seem to be making the argument that you can ignore all inconvenient findings based on the scientific method, regardless of the empirical evidence that supports them, because they just might change in the future (unless they are evident to all?). That we can never use science as a basis for knowledge? That nothing ever gets settled in science? And yet you are probably quite willing to fly in an aeroplane (without the sciences underpinning aerodynamics or radar or GPS being evident to all) or take a DNA vaccine if it is relevant to your health (without the process by which DNA vaccines work being evident to all). I must say that I think you display a rather peculiar personal epistemology.

Alec
evolutionpages.com
 
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