If God is not The Trinity, when what did He mean...

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inJESUS said:
Angels have got nothing to do with creation.
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Yet angels were there cheering in Job. That proves any US/WE there with God could have included angels.

While the entire OT says nothing about a man named Jesus.
 
FaithofAbraham said:
Yet angels were there cheering in Job. That proves any US/WE there with God could have included angels.

no noe said that God cannot talk to angels by using We and i gave fictional examples.

But saying God is telling angels to create : let me and you create is shirk and opposes scriptures where God says Only He, His Word and His Spirit created man.
While the entire OT says nothing about a man named Jesus
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2ndGen said:
Does Job state that God cheered Job?

And “could have” is not proof.
It is an unconfirmed suspicion at best.

And yes the OT testament mentions Jesus by name…Book of Sirach.

👍

youtube.com/watch?v=X5McSEU48Y8
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I wasn’t referring to just any man, but the Messiah. Point is there is more proof angels were part of the WE than there is that the man Jesus was there.

I think we can agree that God’s Word dwelled in Jesus, either your way incarnated into a human body out of thin air, or my way as a prophet, and that God’s Word was there creating Adam, but the human spirit and flesh Jesus was not.

Beyond that I don’t see much agreement or point in arguing.
 
inJESUS said:
point is there is a hundred proof that US refers to Father, Word, Spirit…not one proof that angels were there.
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Angels were there in Job when God created the earth, were they taking a nap when Adam was created?
inJESUS said:
the Bible says Jesus IS the Word/Wisdom of God who created everything. OT talks about the Word who creates, NT talks about the Word, Jesus who creates. God’s word dwelling in a human does not make the human the creator of this universe. Jesus is.
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Well was the human nature/spirit/flesh/man parts of Jesus there in the Garden according to you? I think you have said that it didn’t exist until incarnated into Mary, right?

If yes then we both agree that the human part wasn’t in the Garden.
 
FaithofAbraham said:
Angels were there in Job when God created the earth, were they taking a nap when Adam was created?

Job is irrelevant here. God says ONLY He, His Word and His Spirit created man. Point is there are hundred proof the WE refers to Father, Word, Spirit. Angels creating man is shirk.
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FaithofAbraham said:
Well was the human nature/spirit/flesh/man parts of Jesus there in the Garden according to you? I think you have said that it didn’t exist until incarnated into Mary, right?

If yes then we both agree that the human part wasn’t in the Garden.
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does this negate the fact that the eternal Word of God and His Spirit created man?
 
inJESUS said:
Job is irrelevant here. God says ONLY He, His Word and His Spirit created man. Point is there are hundred proof the WE refers to Father, Word, Spirit. Angels creating man is shirk.
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Job is entirely relevant, it shows angels were there as God was creating things before Adam. It’s not shirk if angels are servants doing what God wants, you are talking about having another God along with God.
 
inJESUS said:
does this negate the fact that the eternal Word of God and His Spirit created man?
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Of course not – as far as I view God’s Word and Spirit as being God’s commands and force going out from Him. But nothing prevents God from still using angels to do tasks for Him, as He always has done.
 
FaithofAbraham said:
Of course not – as far as I view God’s Word and Spirit as being God’s commands and force going out from Him.

since God says only He, His Word and His Spirit created man, why are you associating partners with Him?
But nothing prevents God from still using angels to do tasks for Him, as He always has done.
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inJESUS said:
since God says only He, His Word and His Spirit created man, why are you associating partners with Him?
doing tasks is one thing, CREATING humans is another.( let US create). One is scriptural, the other is shirk and opposes scriptures where God says He, His Word and His Spirit are the Creator of humans.
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Why are you using Muslim terms like “shirk” since even that varies from sect to sect? In plain English, nothing prevents God from using angels to do anything He tells them to. If God says jump they jump, if God says they can create they can create. Why are you questioning God’s power and authority just to try to prove your point?

Seems counterproductive to me.
 
inJESUS said:
in order not to write “associating partners with God”…shirk is faster 🙂

God says His Word and His Spirit created man. **Nowhere **does He mention angels…everywhere He mentions His Word/Spirit as the Creator. Why are you associating partners with Him, something He never said, by relying on things not mentioned yet giving a blind eye to the fact that WE refers to His Word and Spirit which are EXPLICITELY mentioned with the creation of man? why add to God’s word instead of reading what He says? you are somone who’d link davids son to a lamb only because you read the word lamb in some passage, but you do not link the WE to the clear passages that says only God’s Spirit and Word created man? this inconsistency in arguments does not give you credit. You add things not in the text and you delete explicit things…why add angels when God says only He, His Word and Spirit created man? why not say that God can make angels God if He wants? or aren’t there things that only God does?
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“Partners” refers to another God or a lesser God as Jesus is seen. Not angels as servants doing what God tells them to, no matter what it is.

David’s own son received David’s promise for there to be an unbroken chain of kings from David to his son in an everlasting kingdom promised by God. Jesus died first to pay for David’s sin then again to pay for all the sins of the world. Jesus who we already accept as being resurrected once in the tomb was also resurrected in the womb by the power of God.

That makes sense to me.
 
FaithofAbraham said:
Job is entirely relevant, it shows angels were there as God was creating things before Adam. It’s not shirk if angels are servants doing what God wants, you are talking about having another God along with God.
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Hey…did Satan create man too?

He was supposedly there according to you. 😃
 
FaithofAbraham said:
erroneously by Muslims, not Christians.
Not angels as servants doing what God tells them to, no matter what it is.
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God says let us create man…it means God and angels can create in the same way. Does this passage teach that they create only if God allows them? no, there is even no mention of angels…Do other passages talking specifically about creation of man mention angels? no, never are angels mentioned in the creation of man but only the Fathers Word and Spirit. Why add to God’s word what you think happened instead of what He says happened, that His Word and Spirit are the only Creator? If angels can create if God allows it, can they become omipresent and omnipotent and all-hearing and all-powerful and the creators of this universe if God allows it? can they become God is He allows it? suddenly there are no limits to what creatures can do? suddely there are no more things only God can do?
That makes sense to me.
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making sense does not mean it does not contradict scriptures.
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inJESUS said:
erroneously by Muslims, not Christians.

God says let us create man…it means God and angels can create in the same way. Does this passage teach that they create only if God allows them? no, there is even no mention of angels…Do other passages talking specifically about creation of man mention angels? no, never are angels mentioned in the creation of man but only the Fathers Word and Spirit. Why add to God’s word what you think happened instead of what He says happened, that His Word and Spirit are the only Creator? If angels can create if God allows it, can they become omipresent and omnipotent and all-hearing and all-powerful and the creators of this universe if God allows it? can they become God is He allows it? suddenly there are no limits to what creatures can do? suddely there are no more things only God can do?
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If God wanted to make the angels God too, sure He could do it. But He told us to worship none but Him.
inJESUS said:
making sense does not mean it does not contradict scriptures.
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It doesn’t contradict if you can see that the human flesh/spirit/nature God took on with Jesus was…a human named Jesus.
 
FaithofAbraham said:
If God wanted to make the angels God too, sure He could do it. But He told us to worship none but Him.

It doesn’t contradict if you can see that the human flesh/spirit/nature God took on with Jesus was…a human named Jesus.
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Did Satan help create us too?
 
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