If I believe in God (and that Jesus dies on the cross) will I have all the forgiveness I always need

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Willy1 said:
What does this mean?
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God’s grace is a free gift given to us. By His grace we believe.

For by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, for it is the gift of God; Ephesians 2:8

For I say, by the grace that is given me, to all that are among you, not to be more wise than it behoveth to be wise, but to be wise unto sobriety, and according as God hath divided to every one the measure of faith. Romans 12:3
 
Ok so if I recieve grace I am showing how deeply I love him. Because my reasoning for grace is that I love him so deeply and want to enter his kingdom.
 
Willy1 said:
Ok so if I recieve grace I am showing how deeply I love him
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So, grace is a supernatural gift of God bestowed on us through the merits of Jesus Christ for our salvation.

grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. Jn 1,16-17

The principal ways of obtaining grace are prayer and the sacraments, most importantly the Holy Eucharist.

So, if you believe in Chriist and you partake of the sacraments beginning with baptism, you would be showing your love for Christ.

God doesn’t give us grace because we love Him but because He loves us.

Let us therefore love God, because God first hath loved us. 1 John 4:19

In this is love, not that we loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the expiation for our sins. 1 John 4:8
 
fhansen said:
St John of the Cross:
"At the evening of life we shall be judged on our love."
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THE WAY GOD MAKES US THAT WE ARE ABLE TO AND WE ALL LOVE HIM

CCC 298 Since God could create everything out of nothing, he can also, through the Holy Spirit, give spiritual life to sinners by creating a pure heart in them.
And since God was able to make light shine in darkness by his Word, he can also give the light of faith to those who do not yet know him.
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Ezekiel 36:26-27; I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you;
I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.
And I will put my Spirit in you and I cause you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.

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WE HAVE NOTHING WITHOUT GOD GIVEN TO US AND INFUSED INTO US

1 Corinthians 4:7 For who makes you different from anyone else?
What do you have that you did not receive?
And if you did receive it, why do you boast as though you did not?
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CCCS 1990-1991; Justification is also our acceptance of God’s righteousness. In this gift, faith, hope, charity, and OBEDIENCE TO GOD’S WILL are given to us.
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As we see above, we have as much faith, hope, charity/ love, and OBEDIENCE TO GOD’S WILL as much as He infused into us.

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The Father William Most Collection

St. Augustine on Grace and Predestination

I.(1) On human interaction with grace: Every good work, even good will, is the work of God.
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De gratia Christi 25, 26: “For not only has God given us our ability and helps it, but He even works [brings about] willing and acting in us; not that we do not will or that we do not act, but that without His help we neither will anything good nor do it”
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De gratia et libero arbitrio 16, 32: “It is certain that we will when we will; but He brings it about that we will good … . It is certain that we act when we act, but He brings it about that we act , providing most effective powers to the will.”
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Ibid. 6. 15: “If then your merits are God’s gifts, God does not crown your merits as your merits, but as His gifts.”
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Ep. 154, 5. 16: “What then is the merit of man before grace by which merit he should receive grace? Since only grace makes every good merit of ours, and when God crowns our merits, He crowns nothing else but His own gifts.”
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St. Augustine is called, rightly, the Doctor of Grace, for his great work. Augustine showed very well our total dependence on God.
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St John of the Cross:
"At the evening of life we shall be judged on our love."
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As we see above:
At the evening of our life we shall be judged by on the quantity and quality of His infused gift of love.

“When God crowns/ judges our merits, He crowns/ judges nothing else but His infused gift of love.”
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God bless
 
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Latin said:
At the evening of our life we shall be judged by on the quantity and quality of His infused gift of love.
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No need for judgment at all then. But as it is in Catholic teaching, love can be refused, rejected, dismissed, just as it can be rejected between humans. And this is why the Catholic Church teaches that while all good comes from God, man can resist goodness, can resist God, from Eden on. Otherwise there would be no evil or sin in this world to begin with since God cannot author sin; it’s against His very nature. From the Catechism:

1861 Mortal sin is a radical possibility of human freedom, as is love itself. It results in the loss of charity and the privation of sanctifying grace, that is, of the state of grace. If it is not redeemed by repentance and God’s forgiveness, it causes exclusion from Christ’s kingdom and the eternal death of hell, for our freedom has the power to make choices for ever, with no turning back. However, although we can judge that an act is in itself a grave offense, we must entrust judgment of persons to the justice and mercy of God.
 
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Ok, so even if you committed a mortal sin if you feel sorrow and repent you will be forgiven?
 
Willy1 said:
Ok, so even if you committed a mortal sin if you feel sorrow and repent you will be forgiven?
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the Sacramement of penance/confession is needed for cleansing of mortal sins.

God is always there with His arms open wide.

If someone is in mortal sin they should make an act of contrition and get to confession as soon as it is possible.
 
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Willy1 said:
Ok, so even if you committed a mortal sin if you feel sorrow and repent you will be forgiven?
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Or to view it from the other, positive, perspective, to the extent that we really do love, we’ve fulfilled the law, including, of course, the Greatest Commandments; we’ve fulfilled our obligation to be obedient, righteous, holy, etc; we’re justified, by He who alone can justify us, with our cooperation.

Mortal sin is to turn away from and actively oppose God and love. If someone were to repent in any meaningful way that would mean to have a true change of heart, a reversal, back to the love of God and neighbor again. True contrition IOW, not just words or some mechanical act. God, particularly with His New Covenant, is all about making real change in man, in elevating us.
 
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BenjaminJ said:
No such thing as once saved always saved.
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The Catholic dogma
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA The predestination of the elect.

(1) ”Consequently, the whole future membership of heaven, down to its minutest details, with all the different measures of grace and the various degrees of happiness, has been irrevocably fixed from all eternity.
Nor could it be otherwise. For if it were possible that a predestined individual should after all be cast into hell or that one not predestined should in the end reach heaven, then God would have been mistaken in his foreknowledge of future events; He would no longer be omniscient.

(2) The second quality of predestination, the definiteness of the number of the elect, follows naturally from the first.
For if the eternal counsel of God regarding the predestined is unchangeable, then the number of the predestined must likewise be unchangeable and definite, subject neither to additions nor to cancellations.
Anything indefinite in the number would eo ipso imply a lack of certitude in God’s knowledge and would destroy His omniscience. Furthermore, the very nature of omniscience demands that not only the abstract number of the elect, but also the individuals with their names.

ante prævisa merita
Asserts that God, by an absolute decree and without regard to any future supernatural merits, predestined from all eternity certain men to the glory of heaven, and then, in consequence of this decree, decided to give them all the graces necessary for its accomplishment.”

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CCCS 1990-1991; Justification is also our acceptance of God’s righteousness. In this gift, faith, hope, charity, and OBEDIENCE TO GOD’S WILL are given to us.
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CCCS 1996-1998; Justification comes from grace (God’s free and undeserved help) and is given to us to respond to his call.
This call to eternal life is supernatural, coming TOTALLY from God’s decision and surpassing ALL power of human intellect and will.
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John 15:16; You did not chose Me, but I chose you.

St. Thomas (C. G., II, xxviii) if God’s purpose were made dependent on the foreseen free act of any creature, God would thereby sacrifice His own freedom, and would submit Himself to His creatures, thus abdicating His essential supremacy–a thing which is, of course, utterly inconceivable.
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There is a supernatural intervention of God in the faculties of the soul, which precedes the free act of the will, (De fide).
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Aquinas said, "God changes the will without forcing it . But he can change the will from the fact that he himself operates in the will as he does in nature,” De Veritatis 22:9. 31. ST I-II:112:3. 32. Gaudium et Spes 22; "being …
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God bless
 
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I’m not sure if I am misunderstanding why all the quotes but are you using them to try to show that man can never lose his salvation and that, similar to what protestants believe, God saves us once and then we are always saved?
 
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James 2:19. Fascinating verse. I guess that must mean that revelations such as the Trinity and Incarnation also entirely exceed their natural knowledge, which is vastly superior to our own; although they don’t doubt the truth, they hate it. That makes me wonder if God does not give faith (or reveal himself with certainty) to some atheists and irreligious because he knows they would not respond with charity, and that faith would only increase their guilt.
 
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MagdalenaRita said:
I’m not sure if I am misunderstanding why all the quotes but are you using them to try to show that man can never lose his salvation and that, similar to what protestants believe, God saves us once and then we are always saved?
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What I trying to say I put into the context of the teachings of the Catholic Church to make it easy to understand.

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FOR EXAMPLE

The Catholic dogma
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA The predestination of the elect.

Consequently, the whole future membership of heaven, down to its minutest details, with all the different measures of grace and the various degrees of happiness, has been irrevocably fixed from all eternity.

CCCS 1990-1991; Justification is also our acceptance of God’s righteousness. In this gift, faith, hope, charity, and OBEDIENCE TO GOD’S WILL are given to us.
.
CCCS 1996-1998; Justification comes from grace (God’s free and undeserved help) and is given to us to respond to his call.

This call to eternal life is supernatural, coming TOTALLY from God’s decision and surpassing ALL power of human intellect and will.
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John 15:16; You did not chose Me, but I chose you.

Asserts that God, by an absolute decree and without regard to any future supernatural merits, predestined from all eternity certain men to the glory of heaven, and then, in consequence of this decree, decided to give them all the graces necessary for its accomplishment.

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FROM THE ABOVE TEXT IS VERY CLEAR
  1. Our call to eternal life is supernatural, coming TOTALLY from God’s decision.
  2. God’s call to eternal life is supernatural, and surpassing ALL power of our intellect and will. – We all say YES to His call, because faith, hope, charity, and OBEDIENCE TO GOD’S WILL are given to us.
  3. God gives us all the graces necessary for the accomplishment of our salvation.
  4. For if it were possible that a predestined individual should after all be cast into hell or that one not predestined should in the end reach heaven, then God would have been mistaken in his foreknowledge of future events; He would no longer be omniscient.
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SUMMARY

God’s call to eternal life is supernatural, coming TOTALLY from God’s decision and surpassing ALL power of human intellect and will.

He gives His elect all the graces necessary for the accomplishment of their salvation.

If even one of them would end up in hell, God would instantly lose His omniscience.

So, God’s elect salvation as safe as God’s omniscience.
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I’m a Roman Catholic, if you have further questions MagdalenaRita please ask.
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God bless
 
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It is always easier to concieve of doing God’s will if you like God’s will. That’s just an observation, but over time I think I can justify it.
One thing I find destructive is that fellow Catholics invariably set the stage in such a negative way. I don’t fault them. It is an informal tradition we seemed programmed to. WHY we do it is a subject onto itself. What is correctable is how we do it.
I suggest we begin with recognition that half empty gives licsence to half full. " Must submit, or subordinate to God’s will can sound punitive. Daunting! Tortious! And we perpetuate this vibe. Especially the daunting component, which somehow seems intended to discourage rather than encourage. If I am honest, I have always gotten the sense that people almost consign you to failure. Somehow communicated is," if you think you can, don’t forget, these other 685 sins you also need to consider." Putting words to the observation, perhaps, GLEE FOR THE GAUNTLET fits.
Truth is if you simply choose to love your neighbor, you are most of the way there submitting to God’s will. It isn’t easy mind you. What it is, is, something we can concieve of as consistent with our own will. Something that doesn’t keep us neurotic about those 685 other sins.It isn’t a contortion. It isn’t liberty sapping. Self reflection and experience tells us that a state of love is attractive to our own will. It isn’t a subjugation, it is a surrender with benefits.
“Love your neighbor” is aspirational, while," interact with love according to God’s will," turns the very same thing from joyful to sacrifice. And sacrifice is invariably doing something where we would choose to do something else if given choice.
Mercy. Charity. And mostly just having an authentic relationship centered on friendship, gets you most of the way. It’s orthopraxy not orthodoxy.
We get into habits of focusing on the " advanced" and complicated " will" issues involving sex. I analogize this to going to the gym and beginning as a novice using heavy free weights on day one. A strategy that makes progress a long shot. START SMALL! It worked for St Therese. If you persist, doing God’s will is being done as you exercize your own.
You live your way into right thinking. ( In many ways similar to exercising your way into fitness)
And another idea that should not be controversial. Stop the neurotic bean counting. The incessant focus on sin. For ourselves and each other. Jesus did. He didn’t show up at table with sinners with fire and brim stone. Neither should we.
Borrowing from the gym metaphor, when you begin attending overweight, out of shape, and unattractive, don’t stare at the mirror constantly. It offers discouragement and an image of UNWORTHINESS. An image that overwhelms and beacons relapse. If you keep at it, you will find good living eliminates most of the beans to count and offers elimination of more within reach. Don’t begin Catholic life judging pass / fail on ," loving ones enemy." Work up to it.
 
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My mind doesn’t seem to be working fully this morning because I’ve read what you’ve written to me and I can’t seem to figure out whether we’re agreeing or not.

In my opinion, doing God’s will requires getting to know him and getting to know, and do, what he’s asking of us. What he’s asking of us is easy enough… the Ten Commandments, or rather, love God and love neighbour. How do we love God though? We love God by loving our neighbour… as we can’t claim to love God while hating our brother, our neighbour, anyone. The other side of loving God is by learning about him and listening to him, recognising how very good he really is, overcoming our pride and self focus and becoming free of the slavery of sin.

Fear of hell can be a start for some… but as we grow towards God, love drives out that fear.
 
You need to be better educated in the faith. No matter ho2 many passages from the ccc ya poat Once saved always saved is always going to be protestant heresy
 
I read your words. They are all right. But your observation, are we agreeing or not tells me your mind is working.
There is CATHOLOCISM of orthodoxy and orthopraxy and they mirror each other in terms of content. As I get older I see the limitations of orthodoxy. Not the content of it, but of the idea of thinking our way into being good Christians is I’ll conceived. I am in my second half century as a Catholic and the issues I raised are not appreciated and certainly were not by me. Invariably a certain segment of the congregation misinterprets these points, labels them “Catholic Lite” and cuts off furthur consideration. Not to blame, they act almost reflexively. And the stakes are," how best to live in accordance with God’s will." Not a little thing.
You raise fear of hell. To large a subject for this thread, I want to raise an idea in response to your post. Since I was a young Catholic School student a long time ago, I was always troubled by the conflict of two ideas you raise. Loving God and fear of hell. The conflict is found in our very nature. When we fear somebody, it is hard to be intimate. We are guarded and cut off by fear. How much more this fearful state of guarded, with a being we are told can and will consign us to ETERNAL torment. And yet our purpose is Divine Union. Infinite love, and inhumane unthinkable punishment. ( People concieve vulnerability because they masturbate. Eternal torment for masturbating. We cannot even conceive of eternal with our finite minds. ) Something is missing here! As a Catholic obedience is key, and so you contemplate in quiet desperation. It is the very attempt to harmonize these ideas that terrorizes.
While the expression of that terror invariably is my own flaw. In fact the very idea of a Catholic forum to express such ideas is fairly new.
 
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I’m honestly not getting your point. I’m really not trying to be rude with that. I guess I’m a little more simple minded. You’re speaking of orthodoxy and orthopraxy and limitations, but I’m really not grasping what you’re trying to tell me.
 
There is a saying.
You do not think your way into good living.
You live your way into good thinking.
I guess I am exploring that idea within the context of following God’s will.
What do you think?
 
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