if jesus didnt rise from the dead or even exist....

[maize]

like some say, then what would the point have been for people to die as martyrs, e.g. the apostles, the apostolic fathers, etc.

it seems that if christ was whisked away from the tomb and then proclaimed as risen from the dead then why would those apostles that did it give their lives for a lie?

thinking out loud…

 

[kyria]

We’d be stuffed.

Jesus did exist and he came for a reason, and better off speculating on the Truth. Otherwise you’ve entered Satan’s playground, then you’d start to speculate if he didn’t exist, and that is what he’d love for men to do.

Believe, know the Truth in your heart, keep grooving forward with Christ and one day we shall meet in Heaven hopefully.

Want to speculate on something, why do I always burn my caramel sauce?

 

[imasinner]

like some say, then what would the point have been for people to die as martyrs, e.g. the apostles, the apostolic fathers, etc.

it seems that if christ was whisked away from the tomb and then proclaimed as risen from the dead then why would those apostles that did it give their lives for a lie?

thinking out loud…

If Jesus didnt rise from the dead that would make him the greatest con-man ever and the most prolific liar of all ages. Otherwise He is who He said He is. “Before Abraham was I AM”

 

[ruslan]

…it seems that if christ was whisked away from the tomb and then proclaimed as risen from the dead then why would those apostles that did it give their lives for a lie?

thinking out loud…

He wasn’t and they wouldn’t.

 

[maize]

i know all this, im just wondering why people would think that.

 

[Benjamin8o8]

i know all this, im just wondering why people would think that.

They dont. If they did, there wouldnt be no islam, protestants and athiests. People just ignore history for whatever reason:shrug:

 

[JMJ_coder]

If Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is in vain and your faith is in vain.
If Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile and you are still in your sins.
(1 Cor. 15:14,17)

But He has risen from the grave, so don’t worry!

 

[Joe_Kelley]

I recall a few years back, on one of the anniversaries of Watergate, Charles Colson was asked what he thought was the most important lesson from that event. He said he wante to say that it proved Jesus rose from the dead.

He noted that a few days after the event he was at breakfast with a number of the most important and powerful men in government agreeing on how to contain the problem. Within a week or so they were each trying to work a deal for themselves with the prosecutors.

He maintained that if these men could not maintain a conspiracy for a month there is no way 12 simple fishermen could maintain such a conspiracy to their death.

 

[Eileen_T]

I recall a few years back, on one of the anniversaries of Watergate, Charles Colson was asked what he thought was the most important lesson from that event. He said he wante to say that it proved Jesus rose from the dead.

He noted that a few days after the event he was at breakfast with a number of the most important and powerful men in government agreeing on how to contain the problem. Within a week or so they were each trying to work a deal for themselves with the prosecutors.

He maintained that if these men could not maintain a conspiracy for a month there is no way 12 simple fishermen could maintain such a conspiracy to their death.

Good point.

The reason I am a Christian is because of the apostles and disciples total and unwavering testimony and belief in the Resurrection of Jesus, even to the extent of suffering horrible persecutions, tortures and death, and the conviction by which they convinced thousands of other converts to accept the same.

 

[simplynoone]

like some say, then what would the point have been for people to die as martyrs, e.g. the apostles, the apostolic fathers, etc.

it seems that if christ was whisked away from the tomb and then proclaimed as risen from the dead then why would those apostles that did it give their lives for a lie?

thinking out loud…

Good question… and I have wondered the same about the followers of Jim Jones, David Koresh, Allah, and heck… some have even committed suicide because they REALLY believed that they would be transported to a comet that would take them to some Heaven type planet.

Who knows! People reaching the ultimate levels of insanity, I suppose.

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

Good question… and I have wondered the same about the followers of Jim Jones, David Koresh, Allah, and heck… some have even committed suicide because they REALLY believed that they would be transported to a comet that would take them to some Heaven type planet.

Who knows! People reaching the ultimate levels of insanity, I suppose.

The followers of these men weren’t part of any conspiracies, they were duped.

If the resurrection was faked, then the apostles were in on it.

See the difference?

 

[simplynoone]

The followers of these men weren’t part of any conspiracies, they were duped.

If the resurrection was faked, then the apostles were in on it.

See the difference?

Or it could just be that the Scriptures were manipulated. Aloe, what was brought to the tomb of Jesus, is not used for embalming the dead, but rather for healing. After he came to them and left, they talked as though they would see him any day… which is typical of when one goes away (which Jesus would have wanted to do because surely the Romans would have wanted to finish the job) and plans on visiting again. Not to mention, he was still flesh and bone… God is a spirit… so, if he were to be risen as God and no longer a man, he would have been a spirit… and in fact, he would have been a spirit that could not appear in human form else… how in the heck are we all still alive? (The trinity does not work as an answer with me because God clearly stated that He is ONE God… not 3 in 1).

 

[JJ59]

Or it could just be that the Scriptures were manipulated. Aloe, what was brought to the tomb of Jesus, is not used for embalming the dead, but rather for healing. After he came to them and left, they talked as though they would see him any day… which is typical of when one goes away (which Jesus would have wanted to do because surely the Romans would have wanted to finish the job) and plans on visiting again. Not to mention, he was still flesh and bone… God is a spirit… so, if he were to be risen as God and no longer a man, he would have been a spirit… and in fact, he would have been a spirit that could not appear in human form else… how in the heck are we all still alive? (The trinity does not work as an answer with me because God clearly stated that He is ONE God… not 3 in 1).

So what you’re saying is that Jesus didn’t die on the cross? I’m sorry, but Romans who were professionals when it comes to crucifixion don’t do things like that! I’m sure they could tell if someone was dead or not.

I think you need to read up a little more on the Christian belief about the Resurrection. He was always God. Fully God, fully man. (Hypostatic Union). In the resurrection, his body became glorified, just as resurrection bodies are. (This serves as our hope for the final resurrection, at the last judgement).

Maybe read up on the Trinity, too. God is one. The Trinity is a Holy Mystery, but if you genuinely want to get a reasonable understanding of it, think about it like ice, steam, and water. Ice is water, steam is water, and of course, water is water. Something to ponder.

God Bless.

 

[simplynoone]

So what you’re saying is that Jesus didn’t die on the cross? I’m sorry, but Romans who were professionals when it comes to crucifixion don’t do things like that! I’m sure they could tell if someone was dead or not.

I think you need to read up a little more on the Christian belief about the Resurrection. He was always God. Fully God, fully man. (Hypostatic Union). In the resurrection, his body became glorified, just as resurrection bodies are. (This serves as our hope for the final resurrection, at the last judgement).

Maybe read up on the Trinity, too. God is one. The Trinity is a Holy Mystery, but if you genuinely want to get a reasonable understanding of it, think about it like ice, steam, and water. Ice is water, steam is water, and of course, water is water. Something to ponder.

God Bless.

Uh… don’t you subscribe to the NT? Why would you be pointing me elsewhere? Surely you must be because NONE of this can be validated in the NT. Too many clues point to his still being alive when he was taken down. This may not have been a common thing, but a survival of crucifixion is not impossible according to Josephus who took down one of his friends who survived (and this, from what I remember, after a couple days… Jesus was only up there for 9 hours at the most… the stars are because nine hours is still horrific to me, considering… but if one can survive after a couple of days and MOST suffered on their crosses for a couple to a few days…not to mention the ALOE… well, I am not naive. You may be… but I am not). By the way, I would be very happy to know that Jesus survived and lived out the rest of his life in a very well off kind of way. I am sad for people to suffer and even more sad at death… especially in such a horrible way as crucifixion.

YOu all are wanting to know that he died so that you can gain something… else, you would be willing to see what is there right in front of you. That is a scary mentality that you possess.

 

[RobbyS]

Good question… and I have wondered the same about the followers of Jim Jones, David Koresh, Allah, and heck… some have even committed suicide because they REALLY believed that they would be transported to a comet that would take them to some Heaven type planet.

Who knows! People reaching the ultimate levels of insanity, I suppose.

Well, are you saying that people believe that Jones and Korish have risen from the dead?

 

[RobbyS]

Uh… don’t you subscribe to the NT? Why would you be pointing me elsewhere? Surely you must be because NONE of this can be validated in the NT. Too many clues point to his still being alive when he was taken down. This may not have been a common thing, but a survival of crucifixion is not impossible according to Josephus who took down one of his friends who survived (and this, from what I remember, after a couple days… Jesus was only up there for 9 hours at the most… the stars are because nine hours is still horrific to me, considering… but if one can survive after a couple of days and MOST suffered on their crosses for a couple to a few days…not to mention the ALOE… well, I am not naive. You may be… but I am not). By the way, I would be very happy to know that Jesus survived and lived out the rest of his life in a very well off kind of way. I am sad for people to suffer and even more sad at death… especially in such a horrible way as crucifixion.

YOu all are wanting to know that he died so that you can gain something… else, you would be willing to see what is there right in front of you. That is a scary mentality that you possess.

You have have to be more specific. But if you are judging by the NT how could you miss
the part about the scourging? Mel Gibson did his best to show us what the Romans did to people. Jesus was only on the cross for three hours, but the abuse he took before, combined with the crucifixion wasmore than enough to make him die from the shock, or to pass out and die from suffocation. The “swoon” theory is no more than an effort to explain away the Resurrection.

 

[simplynoone]

You have have to be more specific. But if you are judging by the NT how could you miss
the part about the scourging? Mel Gibson did his best to show us what the Romans did to people. Jesus was only on the cross for three hours, but the abuse he took before, combined with the crucifixion wasmore than enough to make him die from the shock, or to pass out and die from suffocation. The “swoon” theory is no more than an effort to explain away the Resurrection.

Oh heck no I did not watch it!! I am ULTRA empathetic… I cry just reading about in the NT; I cry anytime I hear about some one suffering. What you saw in Mel Gibson’s movie was done to many other Jews and they hung there for days suffering in agony. I am not undermining what Jesus went through… GOD FORBID!!! I am trying to make you realize that He was not the only one. MANY JEWISH PEOPLE were hung on crosses SIMPLY for being Jewish. THINK about what it is you are hoping for… Really think about it.

So many on here “boo hoo” because Jesus died on the cross for their sins… yet only a few people on here (none of whom are Christians) seem to care about all the others that suffered and died up there as well. And when it gets mentioned, the Christians are VERY dismissive. When anyone expresses any hope in their heart that Jesus DID NOT die, but rather lived and lived well, immediately the christians jump in letting me know that they hope he did died. Christians come across as very selfish people ya know. MORE JEWS THAN JUST JESUS DIED!!!

I know… I know… but THEY did not die for your sins.

 

[Deum_quaerens]

Uh… don’t you subscribe to the NT? Why would you be pointing me elsewhere? Surely you must be because NONE of this can be validated in the NT. Too many clues point to his still being alive when he was taken down. This may not have been a common thing, but a survival of crucifixion is not impossible according to Josephus who took down one of his friends who survived (and this, from what I remember, after a couple days… Jesus was only up there for 9 hours at the most… the stars are because nine hours is still horrific to me, considering… but if one can survive after a couple of days and MOST suffered on their crosses for a couple to a few days…not to mention the ALOE… well, I am not naive. You may be… but I am not). By the way, I would be very happy to know that Jesus survived and lived out the rest of his life in a very well off kind of way. I am sad for people to suffer and even more sad at death… especially in such a horrible way as crucifixion.

YOu all are wanting to know that he died so that you can gain something… else, you would be willing to see what is there right in front of you. That is a scary mentality that you possess.

You actually believe in the kooky apparent death hypothesis? Scholarship has evolved since the 18th century, you know …

 

[atheist1]

The followers of these men weren’t part of any conspiracies, they were duped.

If the resurrection was faked, then the apostles were in on it.

See the difference?

What evidence do we have of the apostles dying for their faith?

 

[AKG]

The testimony of the faith of the followers of Jesus after his crucifixion is the strongest evidence we have of Christ’s resurrection. It is quite obvious that they sincerely believed the resurrection to be true, for they had been radically transformed. In addition, the remarkable experience of Saul of Tarsus, who abandoned the course of persecution in favor of evangelization, is a further testimony. And his experience of Christ’s resurrection, like ours, was apart from a first-hand, eyewitness account. Yet the Spirit of God continued to bring such people together in community to proclaim this Good News and partake of the agape feast within intimate communities united in common faith in Christ.

This is our legacy, but to be effective for us, we too must experience it.

One cautionary note, the Gospels are not meant to give us an accurate moment by moment historical account of Jesus of Nazareth. They include some recollections of persons who knew him. Jesus existed historically, but do not make the mistake of looking to the Gospels for the historical Jesus. That portrayal is not the intent of the Gospels, and is the mistake made by the de-mythologizers of the late 19th and early 20th centuries that has caused many to question the reality and power of Christ’s resurrection.