If Jesus was really and obviously the Messiah, then why are Jews still adamant that he is not?

[IAmAKaur]

The very notion of the Messiah is Jewish in origin. The Jewish people have been for centuries studying the Tanakh which gives the specifics of the criteria the eventual Messiah will fufill. So why, if Jesus is obviously this Messiah, then why does the Jewish religion and people as a whole reject him?

Certainly to my mind Jewish people would have the best idea of who the Messiah is and so would have been able to recognise Jesus if he really was the Messiah?

 

[drac16]

Basically the same reason why any prophet was opposed. Because people don’t want to leave behind their traditions and habits. Judaism as we know it has become so wrapped up in following its laws that it misses what’s right in front of it; God’s commandment to follow all of the prophets that He sent, even if that means laying aside the customs of that particular age.

 

[Doxiemom]

The very notion of the Messiah is Jewish in origin. The Jewish people have been for centuries studying the Tanakh which gives the specifics of the criteria the eventual Messiah will fufill. So why, if Jesus is obviously this Messiah, then why does the Jewish religion and people as a whole reject him?

Certainly to my mind Jewish people would have the best idea of who the Messiah is and so would have been able to recognise Jesus if he really was the Messiah?

The Jews of that day wanted a King who would crush Rome. Jesus did not do this. And the pressure and condemnation of the parisees greatly intimidated them. Then, to see Jesus shredded by the whips and rods, well, who could think of Him as this King . The hidden Truth here is that He came to graft the gentiles into the Covenant, There would no longer be need to shed the blood of lambs for the forgivness of sin.

. Today there exists 3 groups of Jews

The first are secular Jews ,Jews by blood but have little or no faith.

Next are Jews who have accepted Jesus as Messiah

Last there are Jews who are religious. Among these are what is sometimes referred to as Torah Jews. Within this group, many of us believe are what is refered to as the Remnant. A group of 144,000 that will play a very important role during the time called the Tribulation. They will come to see Him Who was pierced and will mourn for Him as a brother.

Because of their role in biblical prophecy, this Remnant has had their eyes closed and their ears blocked to the Truth of Jesus until the appointed time. A remnant has been there all along until The Father gives permission for His Son to return.

Many non-catholics believe His Return is dependent until God is satisfied that all in the world have received the message of the Good News of Jesus Christ. Until that time, Jews who have been blinded and deaf ( not literally but in a spiritual sense) are covered under the Abraham Blood Covenant. Jews who are secular and non-believers are in the same boat as all non-believers. And so it goes with those Jews who have heard and refuse to accept Jesus.

I want to say this: I am not Jewish. Nor am I Jehovah God. I am not the judge and I know our God loves His Chosen more than I will understand. His Mercy endures. I write in broad non-judgemental terms. God is a just God. The way the world has treated the Jews and its results on these people I know God weighs and shows his lovingkindness to.

So forgive me if my post sounded harsh and cold.

 

[Della]

The very notion of the Messiah is Jewish in origin. The Jewish people have been for centuries studying the Tanakh which gives the specifics of the criteria the eventual Messiah will fufill. So why, if Jesus is obviously this Messiah, then why does the Jewish religion and people as a whole reject him?

Certainly to my mind Jewish people would have the best idea of who the Messiah is and so would have been able to recognise Jesus if he really was the Messiah?

It’s not obvious or everyone who has ever heard of him or read the Gospels would be a part of his Church.

In order to believe one must have been granted faith. It’s a supernatural gift, not something one comes at through reason alone. Reason may point the way, but faith is needed to believe.

One cannot believe without faith, but faith is necessary to believe. This is why it is a gift from God and not an effort of man. Certainly we are to open our hearts and minds to the truth, but if someone simply will not do so, then God usually doesn’t violate that person’s will. There are always exception to this, however, as the conversion of St. Paul demonstrates. But, who is given the gift of faith and who isn’t is in the mind of God and cannot be known by any man.

 

[Kaninchen]

The very notion of the Messiah is Jewish in origin. The Jewish people have been for centuries studying the Tanakh which gives the specifics of the criteria the eventual Messiah will fufill. So why, if Jesus is obviously this Messiah, then why does the Jewish religion and people as a whole reject him?

Certainly to my mind Jewish people would have the best idea of who the Messiah is and so would have been able to recognise Jesus if he really was the Messiah?

As you might imagine, this is a pretty frequent topic here on CAF and these are a few links that might help on Messiah from a Jewish perspective. You should also bear in mind that the Christian understanding is founded, of course, on the ‘New Testament’ which is, to them, both reportage and sacred text. We, on the other hand, to borrow a phrase, ‘don’t believe a word of it.’

Judaism 101;

Jewish Virtual Library;

My Jewish Learning;

Chabad.

 

[Vocatus]

As is well known, all of Jesus’ first followers (i.e. the first people to believe he was Messiah–“Christ” is just one of the way the word “Messiah” came into English via Greek and Latin) were, in fact, Jewish. This includes the Apostles and thousands of others including the large majority of New Testaments authors. So it is patently incorrect to say that the Jews rejected Jesus as the Messiah without qualifying that statement in numerous ways.

Read through the Old Testament and you’ll find that there were times when the remnant of true believers consisted of only a small minority out of the Jewish people as a whole. So the fact that a majority of Jews rejected Jesus as Messiah is actually perfectly consistent with Old Testament history.

As we read in John 1:11, “He came to his own, and his own did not receive Him.” Compare this to a prophecy from the Old Testament written centuries earlier concerning the Messiah (from Isaiah 53):
“He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,
nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.
3He was despised and rejected by mankind,
a man of suffering, and familiar with pain.
Like one from whom people hide their faces
he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.
4Surely he took up our pain
and bore our suffering,
yet we considered him punished by God,
stricken by him, and afflicted.
5But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was on him,
and by his wounds we are healed.
6We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to our own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.
7He was oppressed and afflicted,
yet he did not open his mouth;
he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,
and as a sheep before its shearers is silent,
so he did not open his mouth.
8By oppressiona and judgment he was taken away.
Yet who of his generation protested?
For he was cut off from the land of the living;
for the transgression of my people he was punished.”

So the Old Testament did, in fact, predict that the Jewish people (i.e. the majority of Jews throughout history but not all) would not recognize their own Messiah, but that, in part due to that rejection, He would be “a light to the Gentiles [whose] salvation would stretch to the ends of the earth” (Isaiah 49:6). Nevertheless, as I said, all of his first followers were Jews.

Even in our time, in spite of the majority of the Jews continuing to reject their Messiah, there are many thousands who do believe in Him. These include Hebrew Catholics as well as Messianic Jews (non-Catholic Jewish believers in Jesus).

I wish I had some more time to comment; here are some relevant videos you may find interesting. The first is a from a Hebrew Catholic, the second from a Messianic Jew:

youtube.com/watch?v=Tz7mzaVyMS8

youtube.com/watch?v=3Qg9J6_ijFI

 

[meltzerboy]

The very notion of the Messiah is Jewish in origin. The Jewish people have been for centuries studying the Tanakh which gives the specifics of the criteria the eventual Messiah will fufill. So why, if Jesus is obviously this Messiah, then why does the Jewish religion and people as a whole reject him?

Certainly to my mind Jewish people would have the best idea of who the Messiah is and so would have been able to recognise Jesus if he really was the Messiah?

There were many Jews of the period who were convinced Jesus was the Messiah. Many of the rabbis of the time were not convinced, however, and they were the ones who continued to shape the religion of Judaism in the synagogues (mainly in the tradition of the Pharisees) that existed contemporaneously with the Temple. According to mainstream Jewish belief, Jesus did not fulfill any of the necessary prophecies to be regarded as the Messiah. He is considered in modern Judaism as a revolutionary, liberal rabbi. Further, the fact Jesus is supposed to have claimed to be the Son of G-d is adding a divinity feature to the meaning of the Messiah that was not in Judaism to begin with, even in the theory of “two Messiahs”: one a military hero and the other a priestly figure. Jesus was regarded as yet another test of the Jewish people, as forewarned by Moses in Deuteronomy, with respect to their allegiance to strict monotheism. The Nazarene Jews of old and today believe Jesus was the Messiah but do not believe him to be G-d. Needless to say, Christians disagree with most of this.

 

[IAmAKaur]

As you might imagine, this is a pretty frequent topic here on CAF and these are a few links that might help on Messiah from a Jewish perspective. You should also bear in mind that the Christian understanding is founded, of course, on the ‘New Testament’ which is, to them, both reportage and sacred text. We, on the other hand, to borrow a phrase, ‘don’t believe a word of it.’

Judaism 101;

Jewish Virtual Library;

My Jewish Learning;

Chabad.

Thank you very much. I must say that I do find Judaism a particularly fascinating faith.

Because of their role in biblical prophecy, this Remnant has had their eyes closed and their ears blocked to the Truth of Jesus until the appointed time. A remnant has been there all along until The Father gives permission for His Son to return.

Many non-catholics believe His Return is dependent until God is satisfied that all in the world have received the message of the Good News of Jesus Christ. Until that time, Jews who have been blinded and deaf ( not literally but in a spiritual sense) are covered under the Abraham Blood Covenant. Jews who are secular and non-believers are in the same boat as all non-believers. And so it goes with those Jews who have heard and refuse to accept Jesus.

I want to say this: I am not Jewish. Nor am I Jehovah God. I am not the judge and I know our God loves His Chosen more than I will understand. His Mercy endures. I write in broad non-judgemental terms. God is a just God. The way the world has treated the Jews and its results on these people I know God weighs and shows his lovingkindness to.

So forgive me if my post sounded harsh and cold.

My problem with this is that the entire weight of the New Testament’s claim to truth is based entirely on the Jewish notion of the Messiah, which entails certain criteria and certain things which must be fufilled. This is made quite clear by the Tanakh. Now from my understanding of Jewish sources, the New Testament demonstrates a poor understanding of messianic prophecy in the light of Jewish thinking, skipping over some completely whilst misrepresenting others or trying to edit narrative to suit.

So, the bulk of the argument rests on Christians proving that the New Testament actually provides anything of evidence that Jesus totally and honestly fufills messianic requirements before you can discuss anything else. As far as I can tell, this hasn’t happened.

 

[AveChriste11]

The very notion of the Messiah is Jewish in origin. The Jewish people have been for centuries studying the Tanakh which gives the specifics of the criteria the eventual Messiah will fufill. So why, if Jesus is obviously this Messiah, then why does the Jewish religion and people as a whole reject him?

Certainly to my mind Jewish people would have the best idea of who the Messiah is and so would have been able to recognise Jesus if he really was the Messiah?

Thanks for your question. I also have been greatly confused by this, but find the alternative which Jews offer of following the path of B’nai Noach (Children of Noah) or being a righteous Gentile to be very spiritually unfulfilling. There’s not hardly any ritual or devotion to it what so ever, it only lays out the basics of belief in one God and avoiding immorality.

I actually can understand in this sense why some choose to reject the Trinity and become Unitarians, as they end up adopting Islam or the Baha’i Faith. Others seem to completely redefine the very idea of a Messiah and Saviour figure, by taking ideas from the concept of the Hindu avatar and the Zoroastrian saoshyant figure. Still others seek to borrow from Buddhism, choosing to think that another awakened enlightened being might choose to return again.

 

[Judas_Thaddeus]

The very notion of the Messiah is Jewish in origin. The Jewish people have been for centuries studying the Tanakh which gives the specifics of the criteria the eventual Messiah will fufill. So why, if Jesus is obviously this Messiah, then why does the Jewish religion and people as a whole reject him?

Certainly to my mind Jewish people would have the best idea of who the Messiah is and so would have been able to recognise Jesus if he really was the Messiah?

Well there are some so-called “Messianic Jews” who believe Jesus is in fact the Messiah, but not God himself. As for other Jews, who deny Jesus is the Messiah, the reason I think is most probably (I MAY BE WRONG) is that they’re still looking for the Davidic Warrior King type of Messiah. Even in light of Scripture the ancient Jews didn’t understand that the Messiah would be God who dies in humility, but a hero rescuing Israel from the grips of foreign invaders, why even the Apostles were not at first on the ball in grasping such an idea.

IF ANYBODY WANTS TO CORRECT ME, I will happily be so corrected, but as for the Jews today, I think they’re still looking around for that Savior of Israel Messiah, to defeat its enemies once and for all. We may see that very thing in Jesus’ second coming, who knows?

 

[meltzerboy]

Thanks for your question. I also have been greatly confused by this, but find the alternative which Jews offer of following the path of B’nai Noach (Children of Noah) or being a righteous Gentile to be very spiritually unfulfilling. There’s not hardly any ritual or devotion to it what so ever, it only lays out the basics of belief in one God and avoiding immorality.

I actually can understand in this sense why some choose to reject the Trinity and become Unitarians, as they end up adopting Islam or the Baha’i Faith. Others seem to completely redefine the very idea of a Messiah and Saviour figure, by taking ideas from the concept of the Hindu avatar and the Zoroastrian saoshyant figure. Still others seek to borrow from Buddhism, choosing to think that another awakened enlightened being might choose to return again.

I would just like to point out that Jews offer a third alternative to B’nai Noach and righteous Gentile, namely, becoming a Jew!

 

[meltzerboy]

Well there are some so-called “Messianic Jews” who believe Jesus is in fact the Messiah, but not God himself. As for other Jews, who deny Jesus is the Messiah, the reason I think is most probably (I MAY BE WRONG) is that they’re still looking for the Davidic Warrior King type of Messiah. Even in light of Scripture the ancient Jews didn’t understand that the Messiah would be God who dies in humility, but a hero rescuing Israel from the grips of foreign invaders, why even the Apostles were not at first on the ball in grasping such an idea.

IF ANYBODY WANTS TO CORRECT ME, I will happily be so corrected, but as for the Jews today, I think they’re still looking around for that Savior of Israel Messiah, to defeat its enemies once and for all. We may see that very thing in Jesus’ second coming, who knows?

I believe you’re thinking of Nazarene Jews, who believe Jesus to be the Messiah but not G-d. Most of the Messianic Jews I’m familiar with accept Jesus as both Messiah and G-d.

 

[AveChriste11]

I would just like to point out that Jews offer a third alternative to B’nai Noach and righteous Gentile, namely, becoming a Jew!

I understand that, but I also know I’ve never felt particularly called to Judaism or to the Jewish people. I’ve explored multiple religions, and learned about quite a lot. My spiritual journey has led me to study Roman Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, multiple Protestant Christian churches, Islam, Hinduism, the Baha’i Faith, Buddhism, multiple New Age ideas, and then what European pagan mythology has had to offer. Not even once has my heart ever felt inclined to Judaism, but the more I understand about it – the more I can gain an appreciation for the principles it teaches.

It seems some Jews accept the idea of reincarnation, that many who are called to Judaism are themselves Jewish souls seeking to return to the Faith. I some how doubt this would describe me, as I’ve never felt such a burning necessity. Plus Judaism itself seems like such a difficult faith to get into. I’ve learned that a rabbi will turn you away at least three times, until he knows that you’re serious about what you’re getting into.

 

[Vocatus]

Folks, before I sign off, I just want to correct a misconception that seems to be circulating on this thread i.e. that Messianic Jews do not regard Jesus as divine. In fact, the majority of Messianic Jews ARE Trinitarian in their theology and regard Jesus as fully God/fully man (completely orthodox in this regard) Their theology tends to be very close to Evangelical Christianity. I’m a former Evangelical Christian who was deeply interested in Jewish apologetics so I’m quite familiar with the topic.

Here’s the website of the foremost Messianic Jewish apologist in the world realmessiah.com/

He’s debated representatives of most of the Jewish anti-missionary organizations (Jews for Judaism, for instance) that some of the posters on this thread have cited. Check out the debates on his site. No matter where you’re coming from on the religious spectrum you’ll find them fascinating!

 

[meltzerboy]

I understand that, but I also know I’ve never felt particularly called to Judaism or to the Jewish people. I’ve explored multiple religions, and learned about quite a lot. My spiritual journey has led me to study Roman Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, multiple Protestant Christian churches, Islam, Hinduism, the Baha’i Faith, Buddhism, multiple New Age ideas, and then what European pagan mythology has had to offer. Not even once has my heart ever felt inclined to Judaism, but the more I understand about it – the more I can gain an appreciation for the principles it teaches.

It seems some Jews accept the idea of reincarnation, that many who are called to Judaism are themselves Jewish souls seeking to return to the Faith. I some how doubt this would describe me, as I’ve never felt such a burning necessity. Plus Judaism itself seems like such a difficult faith to get into. I’ve learned that a rabbi will turn you away at least three times, until he knows that you’re serious about what you’re getting into.

You are obviously on a religious and spiritual quest. Best wishes on your faith journey.

 

[triumphguy]

Everything Christ did both appealed to and appalled those who witnessed him.

Think about it:

He feeds 5,000 people. Do all 5,000 follow him?
He cures many people all around the countryside. What happens when he cures people? do they follow him, or often just go back to their lives? What do the witnesses do? Does it convince people? Often it turns them against him.
Jesus preaches a new way of being - the beatitudes. They are life changing - but how many peoples’ lives are changed?

The “problem” with Christ is that it doesn’t matter how “obvious” he was (curing, feeding, raising from the dead) his teaching and his way of life created huge obstacles for those who heard him.

He didn’t just teach people to be nice Jews.
Nor did he teach people to be rebellious Jews and overthrow the government.

He did everything right according to the prophets, except be the kind of Messiah the people were expecting.

He said He came to fulfill the Law.
He said he could rebuild the temple in three days.
He said you had to eat his body, no, correction, MUNCH his body and drink his blood.
He said he was the Son of God.
He called the unnameable, almighty, holy, wholly other, ineffable and great God Daddy (abba).
He had no army.
He had no political power.
He was poor.
He had no important followers.
He blasphemed (according to the Jews).
He broke the sabbath.
He ate with sinners and prostitutes and tax collectors.
He healed a centurion’s servant.
He upset the priests and pharisees.
He died on a cross.

It’s almost a miracle he had the few followers he did.

 

[gracepoole]

Basically the same reason why any prophet was opposed. Because people don’t want to leave behind their traditions and habits. Judaism as we know it has become so wrapped up in following its laws that it misses what’s right in front of it; God’s commandment to follow all of the prophets that He sent, even if that means laying aside the customs of that particular age.

This is just…plain wrong. On so many levels.

Anyone remember this?

youtube.com/watch?v=2wnPHFSdrME

Coulter’s comments about Jews needing to be “perfected” are ignorant at best and dangerous at worst. Supersessionism can be mighty frightening.

DaddyGirl had it when noting that the Jewish notion of the messiah doesn’t align with Christ.

 

[Burt_Macklin]

The Torah is an everlasting covenant. Gen 17:19

Jesus contradicts the Torah. John 9:14

Jesus is a false prophet. Deuteronomy 13:1-4

What I don’t get is how we get around breaking an everlasting covenant. I am pretty sure that I understand what everlasting means, so I honestly don’t see much wiggle room.

 

[meltzerboy]

The Torah is an everlasting covenant. Gen 17:19

Jesus contradicts the Torah. John 9:14

Jesus is a false prophet. Deuteronomy 13:1-4

What I don’t get is how we get around breaking an everlasting covenant. I am pretty sure that I understand what everlasting means, so I honestly don’t see much wiggle room.

Christians generally state that Jesus did not contradict the Torah but fulfilled it by means of his sacrifice to humanity. The Nazarene Jews, who believe Jesus was the Messiah but reject His divinity, have an interesting thesis that Jesus intended to probe the depths of Torah teaching beyond that of the rabbis of the era for the purpose of better observance to the details of Torah. Thus when Jesus was accused of working on the Sabbath, if one really understood Torah, one would know He was not working based on the legalistic definitions of work and the moral necessity to care for the ill even on the Sabbath. This teaching is already contained in the Torah but it had to be interpreted in a more profound and meaningful way. The everlasting Covenant applies only to the Jewish people, not to the Gentiles; whereas Jesus desired to bring the Torah to the Gentiles as well, according to Nazarene Judaism.

 

[JerryZ]

The Torah is an everlasting covenant. Gen 17:19

Jesus contradicts the Torah. John 9:14

Jesus is a false prophet. Deuteronomy 13:1-4

What I don’t get is how we get around breaking an everlasting covenant. I am pretty sure that I understand what everlasting means, so I honestly don’t see much wiggle room.

Well it IS everlasting…AS long as you don’t break it!

Or do you expect it to be everlasting no matter what?

Peace