If Luther were alive today, would he be Catholic?

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Well, whoever it was may lack a sense of humor, but even Dr. Spock has feelings, and possession or lack of a sense of humor does not make you better or worse.

Which is why I did not apologize, I gave conditional regret.
 
If Luther were alive today, in present day Eisleben, Germany, he might very well not be a believer at all, with the secularism that seems to have taken hold of Europe. All of that conjecture is meaningless, though, because he was born when God wanted him to be born. He had a mission, he fulfilled it and now he sings with the other saints and angels, being regarded by many of the people who have come to know the Gospel through his influence as a Doctor of the Church. Some see him as a saint, others see him as a villain, but I wonder how he saw himself? No doubt as a man tormented by the corruption and worldliness he saw about him and by the stain of sin that he couldn’t cleanse by himself, no matter how hard he tried… until he saw that certain verse in Romans that told him that only God could ( and did) cleanse him of that stain by grace through faith in Jesus and the work that Jesus had already done. I’m sure people on opposite theological teams ( Catholic, Reformed, Anabaptist, Orthodox, etc.) would place more responsibility on his shoulders than he necessarily deserves ( to single- handedly fracture the Western Church and all by himself, too!), but it does make his name a convenient scapegoat, eh?

Competing brands, after all, shouldn’t be allowed to exist, should they? That takes time, talent ( and treasure) from our own team! No. The admins are right. Charity wouldn’t come amiss in our discussions about Martin Luther, Leo X, Conrad Grebel, John Calvin or John Wesley. Thank you, Mr. MacDermott, for lightening the tone on this discussion and possibly serving as a reminder that the Lord has a purpose for all of us and we were born just when the Lord determined it was right for us to be born. Five hundred years after this generation, who knows what they will say about us and our debates?
 
LutheranScholar said:
If Luther were alive today, in present day Eisleben, Germany, he might very well not be a believer at all, with the secularism that seems to have taken hold of Europe. All of that conjecture is meaningless, though, because he was born when God wanted him to be born. He had a mission, he fulfilled it and now he sings with the other saints and angels, being regarded by many of the people who have come to know the Gospel through his influence as a Doctor of the Church. Some see him as a saint, others see him as a villain, but I wonder how he saw himself? No doubt as a man tormented by the corruption and worldliness he saw about him and by the stain of sin that he couldn’t cleanse by himself, no matter how hard he tried… until he saw that certain verse in Romans that told him that only God could ( and did) cleanse him of that stain by grace through faith in Jesus and the work that Jesus had already done. I’m sure people on opposite theological teams ( Catholic, Reformed, Anabaptist, Orthodox, etc.) would place more responsibility on his shoulders than he necessarily deserves ( to single- handedly fracture the Western Church and all by himself, too!), but it does make his name a convenient scapegoat, eh?

Competing brands, after all, shouldn’t be allowed to exist, should they? That takes time, talent ( and treasure) from our own team! No. The admins are right. Charity wouldn’t come amiss in our discussions about Martin Luther, Leo X, Conrad Grebel, John Calvin or John Wesley. Thank you, Mr. MacDermott, for lightening the tone on this discussion and possibly serving as a reminder that the Lord has a purpose for all of us and we were born just when the Lord determined it was right for us to be born. Five hundred years after this generation, who knows what they will say about us and our debates?
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:clapping:
 
I would hope that the refinements/defintions on justification given at Trent and elsewhere would be sufficient, compared to what he saw.
 
Thanks LutheranScholar. I think you thought I was being deeper than I was, but thanks for that, haha

Wesrock actually has an interesting point, on even more than justification, granting LutheranScholars point.
 
If Luther were alive today he would be pushing nutritional supplements (Hi, I am Martin and I got this old by eating Acme Supervitamins) and doing the talk show circuit (drink more beer - ja, the political situation IS so different) as well as complaining about kids today and how the world is going to hell in a hand-basket.
 
Wannano said:
Is it out of the realm of possibility that the Catholic Church has changed enough since Luther’s time that if he were to be alive today he would want to be a priest in the Church?
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I doubt he’d want to be a priest in communion with the Antichrist. He was no fan of the office of the Pope, nor the Pope himself of course. The confessional Lutherans still hold the view that the Pope/the Papacy is Antichrist. This includes LCMS, WELS,etc.

Thus the Lutheran Book of Concord states, “[T]he pope is the real Antichrist who has raised himself over and set himself against Christ . . . Accordingly, just as we cannot adore the devil himself as our lord or God, so we cannot suffer his apostle, the pope or Antichrist, to govern us as our head or lord” (Smalcald Articles 2:4:10, 14).

Yes, it IS out of the realm of possibility the Church Catholic has changed enough for Luther to want to be a part of it. (Justification, Papacy, Number of Sacraments, etc etc)

The question to me is has Luther changed enough he would want to be a priest in the Catholic Church? I surmise if he saw the state of Lutheranism today the answer would be yes.
 
MaryT777 said:
I doubt he’d want to be a priest in communion with the Antichrist. He was no fan of the office of the Pope, nor the Pope himself of course. The confessional Lutherans still hold the view that the Pope/the Papacy is Antichrist. This includes LCMS, WELS,etc.

Thus the Lutheran Book of Concord states, “[T]he pope is the real Antichrist who has raised himself over and set himself against Christ . . . Accordingly, just as we cannot adore the devil himself as our lord or God, so we cannot suffer his apostle, the pope or Antichrist, to govern us as our head or lord” (Smalcald Articles 2:4:10, 14).

Yes, it IS out of the realm of possibility the Church Catholic has changed enough for Luther to want to be a part of it. (Justification, Papacy, Number of Sacraments, etc etc)
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I agree! The stance that our Pope is the antichrist has to change!!!
 
MaryT777 said:
My understanding from a Lutheran priest on this board is that many Lutherans no longer hold to this view
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I’m sure there is “a Lutheran” for various positions. My opinion, is that Luther would be “a Lutheran”. 😉
 
rcwitness said:
I’m sure there is “a Lutheran” for various positions. My opinion, is that Luther would be “a Lutheran”. 😉
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Which synod do you think he’d join, the confessional Lutherans? If he was that is my thought.
 
MaryT777 said:
Which synod do you think he’d join, the confessional Lutherans? If he was that is my thought.
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I think it would be more like, what community would join him. He was a reformer and leader. I don’t know why we have to try to guess where he would be, when he does what many do today… establish their own community independent of universal authority.

I’m not bashing, since I believe these ones follow Christ in many ways. But I am criticizing because I don’t think it is full communion. That is the question… would Luther be in full Communion with the Bishop of Rome? I don’t see what would support that opinion.
 
claymcdermott said:
So, I made two entries on this thread, in both of which I told what I thought were some really obviously very silly jokes, and apparently, they were taken seriously.

I understood the thread, and I did not think that Luther trying to escape from his coffin were he still alive was a real issue.

I know what a straw man is and I did not think anyone was accusing Luther of secretly being an animated scarecrow.

The above things were jokes that I told. I do not actually believe them, and when I acted like I knew better than those who disagreed, it was because I thought the character I was doing would be funnier if arrogant.

At the time I thought I was being obviously silly and very funny. I hope no one was upset by them. I regret them if they caused scandal or sadness.
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Hi, Clay!
…glad you’ve explained your posts–I actually felt that you were angry and waaaay aggressive (not to mention of questionable reasoning–my way of silver lining it).

Maran atha!

Angel
 
Peter_J said:
As I always say, you can’t keep a good inquisition down. (We’ll be officially announcing its reinstatement any day now.)
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Hi, Peter!
…I was hoping the bulk would hide the barb…

…all I could think was :doh2::doh2::doh2:

Maran atha!

Angel
 
Wannano said:
Is it out of the realm of possibility that the Catholic Church has changed enough since Luther’s time that if he were to be alive today he would want to be a priest in the Church?
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…problem is that it depends on two parties not one–would Luther’s mindset be changed by the myriads of splinters in the Body?

Would humility win over pride, this time around?

Maran atha!

Angel
 
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